Board 8 > Andy plays Final Fantasy Tactics (Blind Playthrough)

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LeonhartFour 11/01/20 9:03:30 AM #152:	But using Orlandu is fun. He's like your reward for surviving up until now. --- http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/145/638.png https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:946570120] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>But using Orlandu is fun. He's like your reward for surviving up until now. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/01/20 8:27:42 PM #153:	No new plot update, I've been a bit down today so didn't play much. But I did do some jobs and unlocked the Bard class! Seems pretty decent, could be a great secondary and it's easier than Calc to grind up. I like that it plays a bit of Prelude. I think I have all the classes except Dancer now, if the shortlist in the menus is accurate. I noticed the unlocks never required more than Level 4 so I've been trying to get Ramza to 4 on each class to unlock the last few, which is how I got Bard. He's not done yet so fingers crossed for the other. I also got the unique rumour thanks to Malcolm, I was only looking at jobs so I must've totally missed that before. But it didn't unlock a scene at Goug! There must be more to do somewhere else, I'll look into it tomorrow or whenever I play again. --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946593999] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>No new plot update, I've been a bit down today so didn't play much. But I did do some jobs and unlocked the Bard class! Seems pretty decent, could be a great secondary and it's easier than Calc to grind up. I like that it plays a bit of Prelude. I think I have all the classes except Dancer now, if the shortlist in the menus is accurate. I noticed the unlocks never required more than Level 4 so I've been trying to get Ramza to 4 on each class to unlock the last few, which is how I got Bard. He's not done yet so fingers crossed for the other. I also got the unique rumour thanks to Malcolm, I was only looking at jobs so I must've totally missed that before. But it didn't unlock a scene at Goug! There must be more to do somewhere else, I'll look into it tomorrow or whenever I play again. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/02/20 5:51:55 PM #154:	Such trivial things... Feeling much better today! We start by buying a flower from Not!Aeris then a couple of minor battles, the first an easy one with a few Archers and the second another ghost battle, which is a bit tougher as the enemies start to revive after so long. I've benched Cid to keep a bit of challenge up, so no help from him! We then finally get back to some plot with Dycedarg threatening and being threatened by a messenger of the High Priest. He receives a Zodiac Stone (!) as Zalbag listens in. Perhaps there is indeed still hope for Zalbag. We'll burn you to death, so don't run away. Ramza meanwhile falls into another ambush trap, he really should've learned by now not to wander off ahead when things are quiet. The assassin ladies are back, and it's time for another pretty difficult fight. Petrify, Stop, 100% Death, there's status effects aplenty and everybody is moving pretty fast. After a couple of bad shouts with percentage chances, on my third attempt my Ninja manages to get up to one of the assassins and slice her down a couple of times. Turns out that's all we need to do to win this one, phew! Back to intrigue, there's a lot of mysterious unknown terms being thrown around by Elmdor and Vormav. The Marquis curiously mentions Adramelk being caught in a 'loophole', and Vormav says the stones have chosen a body. The words 'bloody angel' and 'ultimate power', as well as "Way to the Dead City" are said, and I gather Alma has been chosen as the vessel for said Angel. Oh dear. Time for another rough battle. Only three enemies to our five, but they have hax skills. I try out a few different tactics here, trying to kill the Assassins first before realising they turn into Ultima Demons, then trying to hold back and buff my party but accidentally casting Haste on Elmdor when he teleports over to us (>_>). The third and final attempt starts off horribly, but what works is focusing purely on Elmdor and leaving the women alone. Ramza learns Ultima (yay!) and the Marquis turns him into a Vampire, which... actually turns out really well for us. Blood Suck has a guaranteed 100% hit rate and heals Ramza up, so it does more harm to Elmdor (who has an absurd evasion rate) than anything else. I get annoyed at Ramza turning Celia into a Vampire instead of hitting Elmdor, but after turning her she promptly walks right up to Elmdor and sucks him dry, winning the battle for me. Lol, I'll take it. In the end, the hardest part of this battle was having to sit for ages while Elmdor decides what move he's gonna do. Legends do tend to over exaggerate. We get to save (See, Riovanes Castle? That wasn't so hard, was it?), and move underground for the Lucavi battle against Zarela. He raises five undead enemies here but they're not much trouble, I clear them out first so they aren't an annoyance and so my party can spread out and not all get hit with Nightmare at once. Meliadoul shows up to do absolutely **** all except wander around in the corner for most of the battle. I keep reviving people when their Death Sentence runs out and honestly it's not too hard to stay pretty much on top of things here, though I get a little worried when the dead bodies start reviving again. Thankfully Zarela doesn't have a ton of health and goes down, mentioning a Hashmalum (presumably Vormav's Lucavi form?). So Elmdor wasn't the big bad I thought they were revealing him to be at first, he was just another villain. Good thing, too, as his character was pretty boring to me (but some cool designs). I'm guessing Celia and Lede are gone now, I didn't actually kill them in my successful attempt but they were revealed as demons and didn't canonically wander off so I'm guessing that's it for them and their annoying-ass 100% death hits. Meliadoul gives us a stone given to her by the High Priest. I assume her and Izlude were given stones when the Lucavi were testing if they were suitable bodies, but idk why they didn't take the stones back afterwards. There's only 12! Look around. See anyone who's really saddened? What I'm planning to do is completely justified. A former squire, now in control of Knights, and restoring order to the world. It's easy to understand. This's the 'hero' the people have been demanding. Delita's ambitions continue to rise and his demeanor continues to grow colder. This scene is really, really good. Poor Olan is pretty much an afterthought here, mere background dressing for a great Delita showpiece, and Ovelia gets some more complexity too even as she is literally sent to her room. Delita challenges any and everyone who question his process, and nobody really has an answer for him. He ends the scene by leaving himself open to attack from Balmafula after casually confirming his plans to kill the High Priest, but she is unable to kill him, partially due to listening to his thoughts and according to the bio because she's falling for him. Can't blame her really, he's become incredibly badass. The music here is top notch, too. Just before we wrap up, Zalbag confirms his suspicions about Dycedarg's hand in his father's death, and has a quiet moment pondering the situation while stood over the tomb. Good luck to you in whatever you plan to do, Zalbag. You will need it. I leave it here today, hopefully I'll finally get some sidequest progression done next time. As a reminder to myself, we currently are in possession of seven Zodiac stones: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius and Pisces. It is confirmed Dycedarg has Capricorn, and Vormav has one too. There are still three unaccounted for, though I now think the High Priest is likely to have one himself, he must be aware of what's going on despite Ramza's previous doubts. It's weird we haven't seen him at all yet, actually. So Aquarius, Virgo... googles Zodiac signs Cancer and Leo are left. Leo is particularly notable, given this is the Lion War. Could Delita have one? I hope not. Unless they keep introducing new characters it looks like there'll have to be some in the possession of those we've already met. We shall see! --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946629691] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Such trivial things... Feeling much better today! We start by buying a flower from Not!Aeris then a couple of minor battles, the first an easy one with a few Archers and the second another ghost battle, which is a bit tougher as the enemies start to revive after so long. I've benched Cid to keep a bit of challenge up, so no help from him! We then finally get back to some plot with Dycedarg threatening and being threatened by a messenger of the High Priest. He receives a Zodiac Stone (!) as Zalbag listens in. Perhaps there is indeed still hope for Zalbag. We'll burn you to death, so don't run away. Ramza meanwhile falls into another ambush trap, he really should've learned by now not to wander off ahead when things are quiet. The assassin ladies are back, and it's time for another pretty difficult fight. Petrify, Stop, 100% Death, there's status effects aplenty and everybody is moving pretty fast. After a couple of bad shouts with percentage chances, on my third attempt my Ninja manages to get up to one of the assassins and slice her down a couple of times. Turns out that's all we need to do to win this one, phew! Back to intrigue, there's a lot of mysterious unknown terms being thrown around by Elmdor and Vormav. The Marquis curiously mentions Adramelk being caught in a 'loophole', and Vormav says the stones have chosen a body. The words 'bloody angel' and 'ultimate power', as well as "Way to the Dead City" are said, and I gather Alma has been chosen as the vessel for said Angel. Oh dear. Time for another rough battle. Only three enemies to our five, but they have hax skills. I try out a few different tactics here, trying to kill the Assassins first before realising they turn into Ultima Demons, then trying to hold back and buff my party but accidentally casting Haste on Elmdor when he teleports over to us (>_>). The third and final attempt starts off horribly, but what works is focusing purely on Elmdor and leaving the women alone. Ramza learns Ultima (yay!) and the Marquis turns him into a Vampire, which... actually turns out really well for us. Blood Suck has a guaranteed 100% hit rate and heals Ramza up, so it does more harm to Elmdor (who has an absurd evasion rate) than anything else. I get annoyed at Ramza turning Celia into a Vampire instead of hitting Elmdor, but after turning her she promptly walks right up to Elmdor and sucks him dry, winning the battle for me. Lol, I'll take it. In the end, the hardest part of this battle was having to sit for ages while Elmdor decides what move he's gonna do. Legends do tend to over exaggerate. We get to save (See, Riovanes Castle? That wasn't so hard, was it?), and move underground for the Lucavi battle against Zarela. He raises five undead enemies here but they're not much trouble, I clear them out first so they aren't an annoyance and so my party can spread out and not all get hit with Nightmare at once. Meliadoul shows up to do absolutely **** all except wander around in the corner for most of the battle. I keep reviving people when their Death Sentence runs out and honestly it's not too hard to stay pretty much on top of things here, though I get a little worried when the dead bodies start reviving again. Thankfully Zarela doesn't have a ton of health and goes down, mentioning a Hashmalum (presumably Vormav's Lucavi form?). So Elmdor wasn't the big bad I thought they were revealing him to be at first, he was just another villain. Good thing, too, as his character was pretty boring to me (but some cool designs). I'm guessing Celia and Lede are gone now, I didn't actually kill them in my successful attempt but they were revealed as demons and didn't canonically wander off so I'm guessing that's it for them and their annoying-ass 100% death hits. Meliadoul gives us a stone given to her by the High Priest. I assume her and Izlude were given stones when the Lucavi were testing if they were suitable bodies, but idk why they didn't take the stones back afterwards. There's only 12! Look around. See anyone who's really saddened? What I'm planning to do is completely justified. A former squire, now in control of Knights, and restoring order to the world. It's easy to understand. This's the 'hero' the people have been demanding. Delita's ambitions continue to rise and his demeanor continues to grow colder. This scene is really, really good. Poor Olan is pretty much an afterthought here, mere background dressing for a great Delita showpiece, and Ovelia gets some more complexity too even as she is literally sent to her room. Delita challenges any and everyone who question his process, and nobody really has an answer for him. He ends the scene by leaving himself open to attack from Balmafula after casually confirming his plans to kill the High Priest, but she is unable to kill him, partially due to listening to his thoughts and according to the bio because she's falling for him. Can't blame her really, he's become incredibly badass. The music here is top notch, too. Just before we wrap up, Zalbag confirms his suspicions about Dycedarg's hand in his father's death, and has a quiet moment pondering the situation while stood over the tomb. Good luck to you in whatever you plan to do, Zalbag. You will need it. I leave it here today, hopefully I'll finally get some sidequest progression done next time. As a reminder to myself, we currently are in possession of seven Zodiac stones: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius and Pisces. It is confirmed Dycedarg has Capricorn, and Vormav has one too. There are still three unaccounted for, though I now think the High Priest is likely to have one himself, he must be aware of what's going on despite Ramza's previous doubts. It's weird we haven't seen him at all yet, actually. So Aquarius, Virgo... googles Zodiac signs Cancer and Leo are left. Leo is particularly notable, given this is the Lion War. Could Delita have one? I hope not. Unless they keep introducing new characters it looks like there'll have to be some in the possession of those we've already met. We shall see! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MalcolmMasher 11/02/20 7:05:28 PM #155:	Elmdor's Blade Grasp is technically distinct from evasion, and it can block several attacks that normally ignore evasion, such as Jump and regular gun attacks. It's ridiculously good. If you've tried out Archer's Arrow Guard, that's a Blade Grasp clone that works against bows/crossbows only. Which does mean that you can Arrow Guard a Jump, as long as the Jumper has a bow or crossbow equipped, and yes that actually happened to me once. Glorious. Meliadoul's skillset is useless against monsters in the base game, sadly (I believe the PSP remake buffs her to deal increased damage to them, instead.) She can equip spears and crossbows in her base job, but for obvious reasons, doing that stops her from using sword skills. If I recall correctly, Orlandu can equip both katanas and ninja swords in his base job, but runs into the same issue; no (Knight) Sword, no sword skills. I leave it here today, hopefully I'll finally get some sidequest progression done next time. The next stop to advance the Goland rumor is ~~Lesalia Imperial Capital~~. --- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. <cite>MalcolmMasher posted [p:946632431] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Elmdor's Blade Grasp is technically distinct from evasion, and it can block several attacks that normally ignore evasion, such as Jump and regular gun attacks. It's ridiculously good. If you've tried out Archer's Arrow Guard, that's a Blade Grasp clone that works against bows/crossbows only. Which does mean that you can Arrow Guard a Jump, as long as the Jumper has a bow or crossbow equipped, and yes that actually happened to me once. Glorious. Meliadoul's skillset is useless against monsters in the base game, sadly (I believe the PSP remake buffs her to deal increased damage to them, instead.) She can equip spears and crossbows in her base job, but for obvious reasons, doing that stops her from using sword skills. If I recall correctly, Orlandu can equip both katanas and ninja swords in his base job, but runs into the same issue; no (Knight) Sword, no sword skills. I leave it here today, hopefully I'll finally get some sidequest progression done next time. The next stop to advance the Goland rumor is Lesalia Imperial Capital.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Evillordexdeath 11/02/20 9:10:33 PM #156:	Meliadoul's moves deal damage and break a piece of equipment at the same time, but she simply can't use them if the target doesn't have any equipment to destroy, which is why she's useless against monsters and lucavi. In the PSP version they removed that limitation - her skills can still damage unarmed enemies. She's generally kind of an underpowered character though considering her join time - you recruit her after Orlandu, who has all her abilities as well as Agrias' and Gafgarion's movesets. --- I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 9/129 Currently Playing: Halo: Reach <cite>Evillordexdeath posted [p:946637207] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Meliadoul's moves deal damage and break a piece of equipment at the same time, but she simply can't use them if the target doesn't have any equipment to destroy, which is why she's useless against monsters and lucavi. In the PSP version they removed that limitation - her skills can still damage unarmed enemies. She's generally kind of an underpowered character though considering her join time - you recruit her after Orlandu, who has all her abilities as well as Agrias' and Gafgarion's movesets. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/03/20 4:35:38 PM #157:	Thanks for the info, Meliadoul is not coming anywhere near the team. Thanks again to Malcolm, we finally advance the next sidequest. Ramza orders milk at a bar (precious) and a strange man named Beowulf joins us (that's supposed to sound like Beoulve, right?). Four battles ensue, there's some interesting layouts here but we're probably a bit overleveled and mash through without much a problem. One of the fights has the same cool music as the Izlude fight which is something. Turns out we were here to rescue a dragon that had a Zodiac stone, who Beowulf seems... very fond of. Weird quest, and the party's getting pretty full of non-randoms now. He's... dancing... Anyway we turn in the Aquarius stone to Besrodio and receive a dancing robot as a reward. Mustadio is unimpressed, so Ramza has him killed. RIP. Besrodio doesn't even blink. That's ice cold. We soon get a quest to retrieve another stone, and I head straight to Nelveska remembering the mentions of an iron sentinel that seem pretty relevant now. Sure enough, we have a Worker 8 v Worker 7 fight on our hands. The enemies look pretty tough here so I rush the Worker with everything we have. Our own worker is pretty damn strong and our crew manages to wear him down before getting collectively petrified. He boots up his reserve mode which is worrying at first but just means I need to survive another turn before offing him for good. He explodes or something and drops a stone, everything happens in a blacked out area I can't see so it's hard to tell. The Cancer stone turns Reis back into a lady (OK...) and back at Besrodio's our next wacky twist is... Cloud Strife! These sidequests are weird, man. Cloud is summoned from other space and runs off, I head to where we found Flower Girl but nothing happens there. I wander all around Ivalice determined to figure this thing out before having to rely on MalcolmMasher again, but nothing happens. Skipping ahead a bit, after the next story battle I try the Flower Girl location again and it triggers a battle this time, with Cloud Meliadoul'ing it up in the back and our team taking on some thieves. Cloud joins us and wants to head to the Promised Land, and that's as far as I've gotten with that. 'Justice'? I'm embarrassed to think you even said that! You think such pretty ideals can govern the people!? Why are you able to use that sword? Why do you think the people call you a hero? It's all because of me!! Because I dirtied my hands you're here! You should be thanking me, not despising me!! Back in the sane storyline, Ramza heads to Igros Castle to see Zalbag finally confronting Dycedarg. Cue battle, where our goal is to... defeat Dycedarg's elder brother! Now there's a twist! >_> Thanks to my Ninja with Lancer's Ignore Height I can get to Dyce pretty quickly, and my Summoner's Bahamut takes off a fair chunk of health (It's pretty neat but a bit OP that summons don't hit allies). My Summoner gets charmed just before Zalbag fittingly delivers the killing blow. As expected, Dycedarg now transforms into his own twisted Lucavi demon, Adramelk. (I'm beginning to remember the XII summons being tied to the Zodiac signs, and one of them was called Adrammalech or something. I wonder if they're all the same beings!) Adramelk admits to his crimes, and zaps Zalbag out of the battlefield (You should really prioritise Ramza, bud. He's obviously the bigger threat!). The other knights disappear too so it should be an easy 1v5 here, but as said earlier, my Summoner has been charmed. Oh no. I may not have mentioned before but it seems there's no way to cure Charm (outside of murdering your teammate), so we sadly have to sit back and watch our Summoner/Healer cast Bahamut on our team and not be available for healing. Thankfully Adramelk isn't that tough, his strongest attack is Holy which one-shots but only hits one character. He's not too durable either, and goes down before too long, with a fitting 'Shit!!'. It feels like they stopped padding the HP of the bosses after Velius. This is the end of the Beoulve's... Names don't matter... What's important is how you live your life. Curious about Ramza's statement, I check in on the records and... apparently that was supposed to be a death for Zalbag. Oh. They could've made that clearer >_> Everybody else gets a death quote and falls over. Teta hung over a bridge for the entire battler! Poor guy. There's a weird lack of reflection from Ramza here, there's no post-battle scene or anything, the map merely updates our destination to Murond Holy Place. (Maybe Cloud's Promised Land will be here too) It feels a little bit rushed tbh, the battle scenes were good but for how big a moment that was I expected Ramza to have a stronger reaction to his brothers' deaths. Maybe he's repressing it and we'll get it soon. Prepping for the next area, I take Cloud's Thief Hat and notice that Mustadio has unlocked the Mime class, which is already mastered and has no ability/item setting. I don't understand this at all, it wasn't even listed in any of the class menus! I'll leave the next area for now anyway, it sounds important. Stone check: We now have 10! Only Leo and Virgo remain, one of which is with Vormav and the other I'm guessing is with the High Priest. So Delita is safe, for now. I am nervous to see whatever tricks the game has left up its sleeve. --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946670144] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Thanks for the info, Meliadoul is not coming anywhere near the team. Thanks again to Malcolm, we finally advance the next sidequest. Ramza orders milk at a bar (precious) and a strange man named Beowulf joins us (that's supposed to sound like Beoulve, right?). Four battles ensue, there's some interesting layouts here but we're probably a bit overleveled and mash through without much a problem. One of the fights has the same cool music as the Izlude fight which is something. Turns out we were here to rescue a dragon that had a Zodiac stone, who Beowulf seems... very fond of. Weird quest, and the party's getting pretty full of non-randoms now. He's... dancing... Anyway we turn in the Aquarius stone to Besrodio and receive a dancing robot as a reward. Mustadio is unimpressed, so Ramza has him killed. RIP. Besrodio doesn't even blink. That's ice cold. We soon get a quest to retrieve another stone, and I head straight to Nelveska remembering the mentions of an iron sentinel that seem pretty relevant now. Sure enough, we have a Worker 8 v Worker 7 fight on our hands. The enemies look pretty tough here so I rush the Worker with everything we have. Our own worker is pretty damn strong and our crew manages to wear him down before getting collectively petrified. He boots up his reserve mode which is worrying at first but just means I need to survive another turn before offing him for good. He explodes or something and drops a stone, everything happens in a blacked out area I can't see so it's hard to tell. The Cancer stone turns Reis back into a lady (OK...) and back at Besrodio's our next wacky twist is... Cloud Strife! These sidequests are weird, man. Cloud is summoned from other space and runs off, I head to where we found Flower Girl but nothing happens there. I wander all around Ivalice determined to figure this thing out before having to rely on MalcolmMasher again, but nothing happens. Skipping ahead a bit, after the next story battle I try the Flower Girl location again and it triggers a battle this time, with Cloud Meliadoul'ing it up in the back and our team taking on some thieves. Cloud joins us and wants to head to the Promised Land, and that's as far as I've gotten with that. 'Justice'? I'm embarrassed to think you even said that! You think such pretty ideals can govern the people!? Why are you able to use that sword? Why do you think the people call you a hero? It's all because of me!! Because I dirtied my hands you're here! You should be thanking me, not despising me!! Back in the sane storyline, Ramza heads to Igros Castle to see Zalbag finally confronting Dycedarg. Cue battle, where our goal is to... defeat Dycedarg's elder brother! Now there's a twist! >_> Thanks to my Ninja with Lancer's Ignore Height I can get to Dyce pretty quickly, and my Summoner's Bahamut takes off a fair chunk of health (It's pretty neat but a bit OP that summons don't hit allies). My Summoner gets charmed just before Zalbag fittingly delivers the killing blow. As expected, Dycedarg now transforms into his own twisted Lucavi demon, Adramelk. (I'm beginning to remember the XII summons being tied to the Zodiac signs, and one of them was called Adrammalech or something. I wonder if they're all the same beings!) Adramelk admits to his crimes, and zaps Zalbag out of the battlefield (You should really prioritise Ramza, bud. He's obviously the bigger threat!). The other knights disappear too so it should be an easy 1v5 here, but as said earlier, my Summoner has been charmed. Oh no. I may not have mentioned before but it seems there's no way to cure Charm (outside of murdering your teammate), so we sadly have to sit back and watch our Summoner/Healer cast Bahamut on our team and not be available for healing. Thankfully Adramelk isn't that tough, his strongest attack is Holy which one-shots but only hits one character. He's not too durable either, and goes down before too long, with a fitting 'Shit!!'. It feels like they stopped padding the HP of the bosses after Velius. This is the end of the Beoulve's... Names don't matter... What's important is how you live your life. Curious about Ramza's statement, I check in on the records and... apparently that was supposed to be a death for Zalbag. Oh. They could've made that clearer >_> Everybody else gets a death quote and falls over. Teta hung over a bridge for the entire battler! Poor guy. There's a weird lack of reflection from Ramza here, there's no post-battle scene or anything, the map merely updates our destination to Murond Holy Place. (Maybe Cloud's Promised Land will be here too) It feels a little bit rushed tbh, the battle scenes were good but for how big a moment that was I expected Ramza to have a stronger reaction to his brothers' deaths. Maybe he's repressing it and we'll get it soon. Prepping for the next area, I take Cloud's Thief Hat and notice that Mustadio has unlocked the Mime class, which is already mastered and has no ability/item setting. I don't understand this at all, it wasn't even listed in any of the class menus! I'll leave the next area for now anyway, it sounds important. Stone check: We now have 10! Only Leo and Virgo remain, one of which is with Vormav and the other I'm guessing is with the High Priest. So Delita is safe, for now. I am nervous to see whatever tricks the game has left up its sleeve. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 11/03/20 5:16:38 PM #158:	Yes, a lot of the summons in XII are the Zodiac Demons in Tactics, just with accurately translated names. Velius = Belias for instance --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:946671894] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Yes, a lot of the summons in XII are the Zodiac Demons in Tactics, just with accurately translated names. Velius = Belias for instance </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heroic Bigpun 11/03/20 6:24:57 PM #159:	Aw man you rushed into it, there was some missable shit in that robot battle I don't think anybody mentioned --- pUnny at his phone. Expect tYpos <cite>Heroic Bigpun posted [p:946675030] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Aw man you rushed into it, there was some missable shit in that robot battle I don't think anybody mentioned </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/04/20 8:23:52 PM #160:	Aw, hopefully it was just gear. That's a shame though. We finally, finally see the High Priest after hours and hours of him plotting in the shadows, will he live up to h- oh he's dead. He gets stabbed by Vormav even before we see him on screen >_> So much for that! Guess he didn't have a stone, and I'm remembering the implication of Alma being the suitable body for the Angel, so the final stone is probably being saved to be used on her. I try out Mime in the next battle, seems like it could be cool but could mess you up too, so I probably won't bother with it. We meet up with Vormav and- wait for it, sit down for this one- Ramza gets deceived! To his credit he tries to fight back against Vormav's demands, but it doesn't do any good. It seems Vormav doesn't need the stones after all (probably why Izlude and Meliadoul were allowed to keep them), he only needed a passage in the book. Time for a very quick, easy fight. Is this intentional to show Vormav as a coward? I hear voices...talking...crying...calling...taunting. Do something...Help me...Hurry and...kill me. He retreats and our next fight is against some undead form of Zalbag. That explains my question from last time! Ramza and Zalbag actually have some emotional investment in each other's well being this time round which is nice. The battle isn't tough, a running theme of today's battles is just to rush the singular enemy we need to kill. We sadly take him down for good before everybody gets Vampire'd. Ramza cries out his brother's name, then pops in to get the next location from the High Priest (Marge Funeral is a hilarious name btw) before he dies. Ramza...... I invite you to Hell....... Our next location is the infamous monastery we've seen so often. We have a couple more fights that aren't very difficult, then Rofel calls upon the Time God Zomala to send us to Murond, Death City. He collapses the entrance and I realise that I've probably inadvertently wandered past the point of no return. Oops. I have a save back on the world map if things go awry or to do the other stuff I missed afterwards if I can't go back. You lost your freedom when you lost your pride and confidence....!! 'Equality's not something you're given! It's something you fight for!! We beat Kletian (no idea who this dude is) and move on to face Balk (I remember him!) and his army of hydras. Nobleman Ramza lectures Balk on the nature of equality, and we're in for a tougher fight here. I eventually figure out it's better to run over to Balk's side where the Hydras do their triple attack instead of three consecutive magic hits, and Monk Ramza + my Ninja Jumper take care of Balk, with Mustadio taking potshots from across the way. My Summoner doesn't get Bahamut off in time to shorten the fight, but we win eventually. There is yet another fight coming up next, and I don't know how far down the rabbit hole this goes so I'll leave it here for now before I skip past any other crucial moments >_> --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946737342] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Aw, hopefully it was just gear. That's a shame though. We finally, finally see the High Priest after hours and hours of him plotting in the shadows, will he live up to h- oh he's dead. He gets stabbed by Vormav even before we see him on screen >_> So much for that! Guess he didn't have a stone, and I'm remembering the implication of Alma being the suitable body for the Angel, so the final stone is probably being saved to be used on her. I try out Mime in the next battle, seems like it could be cool but could mess you up too, so I probably won't bother with it. We meet up with Vormav and- wait for it, sit down for this one- Ramza gets deceived! To his credit he tries to fight back against Vormav's demands, but it doesn't do any good. It seems Vormav doesn't need the stones after all (probably why Izlude and Meliadoul were allowed to keep them), he only needed a passage in the book. Time for a very quick, easy fight. Is this intentional to show Vormav as a coward? I hear voices...talking...crying...calling...taunting. Do something...Help me...Hurry and...kill me. He retreats and our next fight is against some undead form of Zalbag. That explains my question from last time! Ramza and Zalbag actually have some emotional investment in each other's well being this time round which is nice. The battle isn't tough, a running theme of today's battles is just to rush the singular enemy we need to kill. We sadly take him down for good before everybody gets Vampire'd. Ramza cries out his brother's name, then pops in to get the next location from the High Priest (Marge Funeral is a hilarious name btw) before he dies. Ramza...... I invite you to Hell....... Our next location is the infamous monastery we've seen so often. We have a couple more fights that aren't very difficult, then Rofel calls upon the Time God Zomala to send us to Murond, Death City. He collapses the entrance and I realise that I've probably inadvertently wandered past the point of no return. Oops. I have a save back on the world map if things go awry or to do the other stuff I missed afterwards if I can't go back. You lost your freedom when you lost your pride and confidence....!! 'Equality's not something you're given! It's something you fight for!! We beat Kletian (no idea who this dude is) and move on to face Balk (I remember him!) and his army of hydras. Nobleman Ramza lectures Balk on the nature of equality, and we're in for a tougher fight here. I eventually figure out it's better to run over to Balk's side where the Hydras do their triple attack instead of three consecutive magic hits, and Monk Ramza + my Ninja Jumper take care of Balk, with Mustadio taking potshots from across the way. My Summoner doesn't get Bahamut off in time to shorten the fight, but we win eventually. There is yet another fight coming up next, and I don't know how far down the rabbit hole this goes so I'll leave it here for now before I skip past any other crucial moments >_> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheArkOfTurus 11/04/20 8:27:21 PM #161:	andylt posted... Aw, hopefully it was just gear. That's a shame though. Just a really good spear and shield (that share the same name as the weakest spear and shield for some reason.) --- Our eyes were removed For our own safety <cite>TheArkOfTurus posted [p:946737512] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>andylt posted... </cite> <quote>Aw, hopefully it was just gear. That's a shame though.</quote> Just a really good spear and shield (that share the same name as the weakest spear and shield for some reason.) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket 11/04/20 9:17:54 PM #162:	When you get to the end, make sure you stick around for the post credits scene... --- It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest <cite>redrocket posted [p:946740053] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>When you get to the end, make sure you stick around for the post credits scene... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Evillordexdeath 11/04/20 9:26:40 PM #163:	Yeah the spear and shield you missed are the most powerful in the game, but they're kind of overkill and getting them probably isn't worth it. They're quite difficult and unintuitive to find. You have to have move-find item equipped and stand on the pillars at Nelvaska temple, which requires using Worker 8 or Reis to give your character a boost, and even then you have a brave% chance of just finding the regular Javelin and Escutcheon instead, so if you want both you have to keep resetting until you get lucky enough to find the upgraded versions one after another. --- I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 10/129 Currently Playing: God of War (2005) <cite>Evillordexdeath posted [p:946740479] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Yeah the spear and shield you missed are the most powerful in the game, but they're kind of overkill and getting them probably isn't worth it. They're quite difficult and unintuitive to find. You have to have move-find item equipped and stand on the pillars at Nelvaska temple, which requires using Worker 8 or Reis to give your character a boost, and even then you have a brave% chance of just finding the regular Javelin and Escutcheon instead, so if you want both you have to keep resetting until you get lucky enough to find the upgraded versions one after another. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punnyz 11/04/20 9:30:27 PM #164:	don't forget, I THINK the best Ninja Sword in the game is in that map too? --- https://imgur.com/qBpLe47 https://imgur.com/25MHSn1 <cite>Punnyz posted [p:946740686] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>don't forget, I THINK the best Ninja Sword in the game is in that map too? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/04/20 9:50:36 PM #165:	Ah glad it wasn't too important then, if I ever do another run through I'll def try that. OK I couldn't help myself, back to it. We get to a cool looking Graveyard of Airships where Vormav is frustrated that Virgo isn't working on Alma. He transforms into Hashmalum and decides more blood needs to be shed to resurrect the angel, and a very easy fight ensues. Vormav really wasn't up to much, huh. He sacrifices himself to resurrect St. Ajora in Alma's body (!) and now comes the final boss fight. This kinda came up pretty fast. The fight is... easy. Ajora splits into two and Alma is with us in this fight, which kind of makes it too easy as keeping her alive helps out tremendously. Not much to say here, we go to town on Altima until she transforms into phase two. OK, now the fun really begins! ...Or not. This phase really isn't any harder, keeping the party buffed means Altima just uses a debuff spell, and Altima has no evasion/weapon guard, isn't speedy, there's no other enemies around now, it's all just... way too simple. I don't know if they were going for a narrative thing here of Ramza being OP but... idk. It's a bit anticlimactic. Did my father die fighting heroically? And... that's pretty much it. Huh. Altima blows the whole place up in death, having been killed by an ancestor of Ramza's previously. We cut to Alma's funeral, and there's some good lines here with Olan narrating events for us. Honestly I'm a bit taken aback by how quickly this ended, I thought we'd be coming back to the political side of things but nope! Balmafula was spared by now King Delita and of course Ramza and Alma survived somehow. We then get a closing video much like the opening, telling us what came next. There is an odd moment of juxtaposition where very triumphant music plays over the note that Olan was burned alive for heresy. Guess the church survived as well as the aristocracy. Boo. I'm left a little underwhelmed and taken aback as the credits roll, but thankfully there's a post-credits scene. Yay! With King Delita! Yay! And his- oh. Ovelia has had enough of Delita using people and comes at him with a knife, and he kills her with it. Ovelia's body and his bouquet of flowers on the ground, he wonders aloud if Ramza got the better deal in the end. Oof. Pretty abrupt and ballsy way to end your game. Ramza.... What did you get? I......... -The End- I won't do a proper recap of the game or my thoughts yet or anything, but this ending took me by surprise. I was really really loving this game but the last act just felt a bit rushed to me. Like it abandons the politics pretty much entirely after Delita 'kills' Balmafula and Zalbag discovers the truth. IDK, the dialogue felt pretty rushed after that and there weren't any little quiet scenes of character development, we didn't even see Delita after that really cool scene that felt like a buildup to something. Delita's final scene is very good, but also pretty quick and we're just left to dwell on it I guess. Maybe that's the point. I think I just figured that Delita's stuff would fold into the main storyline at the end, but it just... doesn't. Even the intrigue just kinda fades away, idk. Ramza doesn't even get any dialogue for the last bits. I'll put together proper thoughts tomorrow, I did have a really great time with this game, I love it a lot, but the ending (epilogue scene aside) left me pretty cold. Like poor Ovelia. Thanks a lot to everyone who helped me with advice for this, and if there's sidequests I missed I still have a save on the world map so feel free to let me know now and I'll get to them tomorrow! Really an absolute gem of a game, totally different from other FFs in tone. --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946741581] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Ah glad it wasn't too important then, if I ever do another run through I'll def try that. OK I couldn't help myself, back to it. We get to a cool looking Graveyard of Airships where Vormav is frustrated that Virgo isn't working on Alma. He transforms into Hashmalum and decides more blood needs to be shed to resurrect the angel, and a very easy fight ensues. Vormav really wasn't up to much, huh. He sacrifices himself to resurrect St. Ajora in Alma's body (!) and now comes the final boss fight. This kinda came up pretty fast. The fight is... easy. Ajora splits into two and Alma is with us in this fight, which kind of makes it too easy as keeping her alive helps out tremendously. Not much to say here, we go to town on Altima until she transforms into phase two. OK, now the fun really begins! ...Or not. This phase really isn't any harder, keeping the party buffed means Altima just uses a debuff spell, and Altima has no evasion/weapon guard, isn't speedy, there's no other enemies around now, it's all just... way too simple. I don't know if they were going for a narrative thing here of Ramza being OP but... idk. It's a bit anticlimactic. Did my father die fighting heroically? And... that's pretty much it. Huh. Altima blows the whole place up in death, having been killed by an ancestor of Ramza's previously. We cut to Alma's funeral, and there's some good lines here with Olan narrating events for us. Honestly I'm a bit taken aback by how quickly this ended, I thought we'd be coming back to the political side of things but nope! Balmafula was spared by now King Delita and of course Ramza and Alma survived somehow. We then get a closing video much like the opening, telling us what came next. There is an odd moment of juxtaposition where very triumphant music plays over the note that Olan was burned alive for heresy. Guess the church survived as well as the aristocracy. Boo. I'm left a little underwhelmed and taken aback as the credits roll, but thankfully there's a post-credits scene. Yay! With King Delita! Yay! And his- oh. Ovelia has had enough of Delita using people and comes at him with a knife, and he kills her with it. Ovelia's body and his bouquet of flowers on the ground, he wonders aloud if Ramza got the better deal in the end. Oof. Pretty abrupt and ballsy way to end your game. Ramza.... What did you get? I......... -The End- I won't do a proper recap of the game or my thoughts yet or anything, but this ending took me by surprise. I was really really loving this game but the last act just felt a bit rushed to me. Like it abandons the politics pretty much entirely after Delita 'kills' Balmafula and Zalbag discovers the truth. IDK, the dialogue felt pretty rushed after that and there weren't any little quiet scenes of character development, we didn't even see Delita after that really cool scene that felt like a buildup to something. Delita's final scene is very good, but also pretty quick and we're just left to dwell on it I guess. Maybe that's the point. I think I just figured that Delita's stuff would fold into the main storyline at the end, but it just... doesn't. Even the intrigue just kinda fades away, idk. Ramza doesn't even get any dialogue for the last bits. I'll put together proper thoughts tomorrow, I did have a really great time with this game, I love it a lot, but the ending (epilogue scene aside) left me pretty cold. Like poor Ovelia. Thanks a lot to everyone who helped me with advice for this, and if there's sidequests I missed I still have a save on the world map so feel free to let me know now and I'll get to them tomorrow! Really an absolute gem of a game, totally different from other FFs in tone. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheArkOfTurus 11/04/20 10:01:12 PM #166:	There's an optional area (Deep Dungeon) that you might want to do. (You probably don't want to do that.) --- Our eyes were removed For our own safety <cite>TheArkOfTurus posted [p:946742019] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>There's an optional area (Deep Dungeon) that you might want to do. (You probably don't want to do that.) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 11/04/20 10:20:43 PM #167:	Deep Dungeon isn't really worth it unless you want the super secret summon you can only get by reaching the bottom. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:946742802] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Deep Dungeon isn't really worth it unless you want the super secret summon you can only get by reaching the bottom. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MartinFF7 11/04/20 11:11:49 PM #168:	Yeah Deep Dungeon's not worth it... I even focused on getting that summon and well, my team was already set up so great it wasn't even worth running Summon even as a secondary skill. I gained a ton of appreciation for Delita in my replay, Delita > Ramza for sure and am glad he made the run in SMFFFC this year. Ramza is a true hero and all but certainly not a more compelling character. My final battle, neither Altima form even got a single turn. I had Ramza dual-wielding Excalibur and Ragnarok and, funny thing with Calculators - both Altima forms are at a prime number height level & none of your team is. So a Ramza two-swording and 2 calculations on each form, bam. Demolished. Though I was stupidly overleveled. I agree on the rushed ending too (not to mention no warning about the point of no return). Would've been nice to get one or two more Delita scenes. But in context it also makes sense there aren't political scenes or character-building moments. All the key players in the political conflict have been wiped out other than Delita, one more scene showing the final Delita triumph would've still been great though. But more importantly is the game setting up the ticking-clock of the kidnapped Alma. Which they forget for a bit while Ramza's taking a little detour between Riovanes and Limberry, Elmdor tells him to go to Limberry but he doesn't go there immediately, does the whole Zeltennia/Bethla detour... which I guess gets Orlandu on their side... but yeah, once the endgame chase of Ramza vs. Vormav and his crew is on, there's really no chance for detours or narrative cutaways. The last time Ramza and Delita see each other: Delita: ...I guess it's good bye, Ramza. Ramza: Stay alive, Delita. Delita: You too... [Delita walks over to Ramza and stretches out his hand. Ramza and Delita shakes hands. Ramza then disappears into the shadows.] ...got a little misty-eyed. Definitely a really great game though. I'm looking forward to doing a replay and hopefully not taking like, 15 years next time. Gotta do War of the Lions and going to exclusively use like, main characters, rather than generic soldiers that I end up overpowering. Outside of Agrias early on and TG Cid late (but not in this playthrough) I don't think I've ever used one of them. Gotta have Cloud in my team next time...! <cite>MartinFF7 posted [p:946744955] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Yeah Deep Dungeon's not worth it... I even focused on getting that summon and well, my team was already set up so great it wasn't even worth running Summon even as a secondary skill. I gained a ton of appreciation for Delita in my replay, Delita > Ramza for sure and am glad he made the run in SMFFFC this year. Ramza is a true hero and all but certainly not a more compelling character. My final battle, neither Altima form even got a single turn. I had Ramza dual-wielding Excalibur and Ragnarok and, funny thing with Calculators - both Altima forms are at a prime number height level & none of your team is. So a Ramza two-swording and 2 calculations on each form, bam. Demolished. Though I was stupidly overleveled. I agree on the rushed ending too (not to mention no warning about the point of no return). Would've been nice to get one or two more Delita scenes. But in context it also makes sense there aren't political scenes or character-building moments. All the key players in the political conflict have been wiped out other than Delita, one more scene showing the final Delita triumph would've still been great though. But more importantly is the game setting up the ticking-clock of the kidnapped Alma. Which they forget for a bit while Ramza's taking a little detour between Riovanes and Limberry, Elmdor tells him to go to Limberry but he doesn't go there immediately, does the whole Zeltennia/Bethla detour... which I guess gets Orlandu on their side... but yeah, once the endgame chase of Ramza vs. Vormav and his crew is on, there's really no chance for detours or narrative cutaways. The last time Ramza and Delita see each other: <quote>Delita: ...I guess it's good bye, Ramza. Ramza: Stay alive, Delita. Delita: You too... [Delita walks over to Ramza and stretches out his hand. Ramza and Delita shakes hands. Ramza then disappears into the shadows.]</quote> ...got a little misty-eyed. Definitely a really great game though. I'm looking forward to doing a replay and hopefully not taking like, 15 years next time. Gotta do War of the Lions and going to exclusively use like, main characters, rather than generic soldiers that I end up overpowering. Outside of Agrias early on and TG Cid late (but not in this playthrough) I don't think I've ever used one of them. Gotta have Cloud in my team next time...! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 11/04/20 11:14:39 PM #169:	Ramza > Delita forever and always it also isn't a rivalry and shouldn't have been in RR --- http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/145/638.png https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:946745082] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Ramza > Delita forever and always it also isn't a rivalry and shouldn't have been in RR </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MalcolmMasher 11/05/20 12:55:31 AM #170:	Apparently in the JP version the High Priest was "Marriage Funeral". "Marge" is probably an improvement. I think it's generally agreed that lategame FFT plot should have spent more time on politics and less time on demons. Thanks a lot to everyone who helped me with advice for this, and if there's sidequests I missed I still have a save on the world map so feel free to let me know now and I'll get to them tomorrow! People have already mentioned the Deep Dungeon; I wouldn't bother trying to clear it without a FAQ, but if you want more FFT content, it's there. Also, if you fielded Cloud, you may have noticed that he can't do anything with his skillset - you need to equip him with a particular item in order to make it work. ~~His unit quote in the formation menu gives a hint.~~ Of course, even when you get Limit up and running, he's pretty far behind on levels. Cloud does get to equip the female-only ribbons in his base class, though, which I can only take assume is a reference to FF7's Wall Market sequence. Go ahead and give Bard and its parallel Dancer a try, too. I'm not saying they're gonna outpace endgame setups, but they are unique gimmicks. --- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. <cite>MalcolmMasher posted [p:946748513] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Apparently in the JP version the High Priest was "Marriage Funeral". "Marge" is probably an improvement. I think it's generally agreed that lategame FFT plot should have spent more time on politics and less time on demons. Thanks a lot to everyone who helped me with advice for this, and if there's sidequests I missed I still have a save on the world map so feel free to let me know now and I'll get to them tomorrow! People have already mentioned the Deep Dungeon; I wouldn't bother trying to clear it without a FAQ, but if you want more FFT content, it's there. Also, if you fielded Cloud, you may have noticed that he can't do anything with his skillset - you need to equip him with a particular item in order to make it work. His unit quote in the formation menu gives a hint. Of course, even when you get Limit up and running, he's pretty far behind on levels. Cloud does get to equip the female-only ribbons in his base class, though, which I can only take assume is a reference to FF7's Wall Market sequence. Go ahead and give Bard and its parallel Dancer a try, too. I'm not saying they're gonna outpace endgame setups, but they are unique gimmicks.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Evillordexdeath 11/05/20 1:03:47 AM #171:	Yeah, in my opinion the biggest problem with FFT's plot is the fact that the Lucavi exist in the first place. I think it would've been better if it just removed its supernatural elements altogether and focused entirely on political machinations for its plot. I find the whole final encounter with Ajora pretty meaningless for the most part and agree that it's an anti-climax. Delita is my favorite Final Fantasy character. I tend to like a more flawed, morally complex character and I think that's his main edge over Ramza. Delita's story is arguably about him being corrupted. In some ways he ends up resembling the same people he set out to fight. Neither of those characters would be as effective without the other though. The contrast in their methods is central to the story. Delita does achieve things that Ramza could never do because he isn't willing to get his hands dirty in the same way. I think it's especially interesting how they take such different paths despite initially being similar naive kids and being disillusioned by the same event: Teta's death. And yes, in gameplay terms you did almost everything except the Deep Dungeon, which I also think is kind of lame. --- I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 10/129 Currently Playing: God of War (2005) <cite>Evillordexdeath posted [p:946748778] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, in my opinion the biggest problem with FFT's plot is the fact that the Lucavi exist in the first place. I think it would've been better if it just removed its supernatural elements altogether and focused entirely on political machinations for its plot. I find the whole final encounter with Ajora pretty meaningless for the most part and agree that it's an anti-climax. Delita is my favorite Final Fantasy character. I tend to like a more flawed, morally complex character and I think that's his main edge over Ramza. Delita's story is arguably about him being corrupted. In some ways he ends up resembling the same people he set out to fight. Neither of those characters would be as effective without the other though. The contrast in their methods is central to the story. Delita does achieve things that Ramza could never do because he isn't willing to get his hands dirty in the same way. I think it's especially interesting how they take such different paths despite initially being similar naive kids and being disillusioned by the same event: Teta's death. And yes, in gameplay terms you did almost everything except the Deep Dungeon, which I also think is kind of lame. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heroic Bigpun 11/05/20 1:08:08 AM #172:	You have the opputunity to get some crazy shit from deep dungeon but yea, it's a drag and requires a guide if you dont want to spend hours exploring each map tile by tile --- pUnny at his phone. Expect tYpos <cite>Heroic Bigpun posted [p:946748887] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>You have the opputunity to get some crazy shit from deep dungeon but yea, it's a drag and requires a guide if you dont want to spend hours exploring each map tile by tile </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 11/05/20 1:10:30 AM #173:	Evillordexdeath posted... Neither of those characters would be as effective without the other though. they are indeed fantastic foils, and I love me some foils Evillordexdeath posted... Delita does achieve things that Ramza could never do because he isn't willing to get his hands dirty in the same way. And vice-versa! I think even in Delita's own assessment, Ramza came out on top because he never compromised who he was to reach his goals. --- http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/145/638.png https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:946748940] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Evillordexdeath posted... </cite> <quote>Neither of those characters would be as effective without the other though.</quote> they are indeed fantastic foils, and I love me some foils Evillordexdeath posted... </cite> <quote>Delita does achieve things that Ramza could never do because he isn't willing to get his hands dirty in the same way.</quote> And vice-versa! I think even in Delita's own assessment, Ramza came out on top because he never compromised who he was to reach his goals. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punnyz 11/05/20 1:29:19 AM #174:	so a few pieces of Trivia it used to be debated whether or not Ramza and Co actually survived or not. The things that Olan saw could've been ghosts or figments of his imagination, especially considering Evil Jesus exploded and they were in another dimension but its generally believed it was actually them because....why would Ghost Chocobos need to drink water ? but at the same time, one of the main FFT guys confirmed it himself https://twitter.com/yasumimatsuno/status/169572953686683648 ALSO, in universe, Vagrant Story is a far removed, distant sequel of FFT (mostly just in the same world) but there are mentions and descriptions of several characters from FFT, implying that the Durai report was taken as truth when it was revealed by Olan's descendant. Previously Ramza went down in history as a heretic (as you know) --- https://imgur.com/qBpLe47 https://imgur.com/25MHSn1 <cite>Punnyz posted [p:946749385] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>so a few pieces of Trivia it used to be debated whether or not Ramza and Co actually survived or not. The things that Olan saw could've been ghosts or figments of his imagination, especially considering Evil Jesus exploded and they were in another dimension but its generally believed it was actually them because....why would Ghost Chocobos need to drink water ? but at the same time, one of the main FFT guys confirmed it himself https://twitter.com/yasumimatsuno/status/169572953686683648 ALSO, in universe, Vagrant Story is a far removed, distant sequel of FFT (mostly just in the same world) but there are mentions and descriptions of several characters from FFT, implying that the Durai report was taken as truth when it was revealed by Olan's descendant. Previously Ramza went down in history as a heretic (as you know) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punnyz 11/05/20 1:35:56 AM #175:	what were yall's final teams again? --- https://imgur.com/qBpLe47 https://imgur.com/25MHSn1 <cite>Punnyz posted [p:946749560] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>what were yall's final teams again? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/05/20 8:30:37 AM #176:	I might give Deep Dungeon a look just to see what's messed up about it, but I won't bother doing it if you all say it's not worth it. Is there any plot stuff there? I'll look at that Cloud quote too. I'll go into my thoughts about the overall narrative and characters properly later, but yeah as said it faded a bit at the end. Delita is wonderful. MalcolmMasher posted... Apparently in the JP version the High Priest was "Marriage Funeral". "Marge" is probably an improvement. I saw Marge and Bart and expected the whole Simpsons family to get namedropped at some point, this makes more sense >_>. And I did try Bard for quite a while on Ramza, it was fun! The only jobs I didn't give proper gos were Mediator, Calculator and Mime, all of which I just tried briefly. I never unlocked Dancer either :( Cool that they confirmed Ramza's survival (and weirder they never did a T2 I guess), and I'll look into Vagrant Story some more. As for final teams, I stopped swapping in new characters properly a while ago, I tried the new ones briefly but generally stuck to my team in lategame, intentionally avoiding Cid to keep a bit of challenge up. Kept swapping jobs though. In the end I had: -Ramza, of course. In the final battle he was Monk/Bard, though I had been swapping Squire/Geomancer/Samurai on him too for the whole lategame p much. -Heinline, my Ninja/Lancer. This combo was so good for speed, damage dealing and getting across the maps I never really altered it. He had Ignore Jump Height (so broken on a bunch of maps) and Attack Up. -Nena, who was Priest/Summoner by the end though I never used her heals anymore, just kept Priest up for the speed. She was Time Mage a lot of the time, too. She had Short Charge and Move/MP Up. -Mustadio, Engineer/Chemist. I had him on Thief for a while once I learned Equip Guns from Mediator, again for the speed boost (and the steals). He had Throw Item. -Agrias, Holy Knight/Chemist. I know she's supposed to be stronger as a Knight but I wanted another healing option. Also gave her Throw Item. Everybody had Auto-Potion, which is indeed super OP. --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946756128] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>I might give Deep Dungeon a look just to see what's messed up about it, but I won't bother doing it if you all say it's not worth it. Is there any plot stuff there? I'll look at that Cloud quote too. I'll go into my thoughts about the overall narrative and characters properly later, but yeah as said it faded a bit at the end. Delita is wonderful. MalcolmMasher posted... </cite> <quote>Apparently in the JP version the High Priest was "Marriage Funeral". "Marge" is probably an improvement.</quote>I saw Marge and Bart and expected the whole Simpsons family to get namedropped at some point, this makes more sense >_>. And I did try Bard for quite a while on Ramza, it was fun! The only jobs I didn't give proper gos were Mediator, Calculator and Mime, all of which I just tried briefly. I never unlocked Dancer either :( Cool that they confirmed Ramza's survival (and weirder they never did a T2 I guess), and I'll look into Vagrant Story some more. As for final teams, I stopped swapping in new characters properly a while ago, I tried the new ones briefly but generally stuck to my team in lategame, intentionally avoiding Cid to keep a bit of challenge up. Kept swapping jobs though. In the end I had: -Ramza, of course. In the final battle he was Monk/Bard, though I had been swapping Squire/Geomancer/Samurai on him too for the whole lategame p much. -Heinline, my Ninja/Lancer. This combo was so good for speed, damage dealing and getting across the maps I never really altered it. He had Ignore Jump Height (so broken on a bunch of maps) and Attack Up. -Nena, who was Priest/Summoner by the end though I never used her heals anymore, just kept Priest up for the speed. She was Time Mage a lot of the time, too. She had Short Charge and Move/MP Up. -Mustadio, Engineer/Chemist. I had him on Thief for a while once I learned Equip Guns from Mediator, again for the speed boost (and the steals). He had Throw Item. -Agrias, Holy Knight/Chemist. I know she's supposed to be stronger as a Knight but I wanted another healing option. Also gave her Throw Item. Everybody had Auto-Potion, which is indeed super OP. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MartinFF7 11/05/20 10:25:00 AM #177:	I still remember back in university, they'd do these flea market sales on campus and that's how I got Silent Hill 2 and Vagrant Story... and I never played VS, I still think about it every so often. And again that was probably 15 years ago, was on my To Play list for 2020 but the whole year got away from me, eh... we'll see. LeonhartFour posted... it also isn't a rivalry and shouldn't have been in RR I didn't mean to imply that! Also is RR Rivalry Rumble? I don't remember that or anything about it... Punnyz posted... what were yall's final teams again? Last time I went Ninjas and Calculators and I told myself I'd diversity this time but... some habits are hard to break. Also I learned about the JP Scroll glitch so used that wherever I could (which really was great for Math Skill) Ramza: Squire/Knight with Two Swords (including Save the Queen from Meliadoul, until I got Ragnarok at the end) Female: Wizard/Calculator Female: Dancer/Calculator Male: Bard/Time Mage Male: Chemist/Time Mage <- this one was my weakest guy and I was never quite sure what to do with him, he was a Thief for a good chunk of Chapters 3/4 game but just like Hasting my team so threw him in there at the end when I was ready to finish the game and didn't want to spend the time it takes to steal stuff. Also he had the Blaze Gun from Balk. Everyone had Teleport, and everyone had Auto-Potion except i gave Ramza Blade Grasp. Major (ridiculous) highlights of the run involve jacking up people's Speed and using Speed Break to just abuse the enemy: -Spending hours on Queklain maxing out the JP on my two Calculators so I'd never have to put them in that primary class again, Ramza yelling everywhere... the battle lasted so long that at one point Ramza said the same battle dialogue that he did early in the fight, I assume he went over 255 turns and it looped back around, lol... -Spending way too long on Elmdor trying to steal all Genji equipment, eventually I tried lowering his Brave using Foxbird and that decreased his evasion rate so lesson learned -Spending way too long on Worker No. 7 who was a higher level of my team so figured I'd be a good levelling opportunity, so literally had my team attacking him and my Chemist throwing potions to heal him, hahaha (this all proved to be a moot point since the best leveling is in the Deep Dungeon anyways) Really wanted to use new classes I had never mained before, and at least I got the Bard and Dancers going, but really tough to use other classes when Two Swords and Math Skill are just so powerful... next time I'll make Ramza a Samurai for sure. <cite>MartinFF7 posted [p:946759904] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>I still remember back in university, they'd do these flea market sales on campus and that's how I got Silent Hill 2 and Vagrant Story... and I never played VS, I still think about it every so often. And again that was probably 15 years ago, was on my To Play list for 2020 but the whole year got away from me, eh... we'll see. LeonhartFour posted... </cite> <quote>it also isn't a rivalry and shouldn't have been in RR</quote> I didn't mean to imply that! Also is RR Rivalry Rumble? I don't remember that or anything about it... Punnyz posted... </cite> <quote>what were yall's final teams again?</quote> Last time I went Ninjas and Calculators and I told myself I'd diversity this time but... some habits are hard to break. Also I learned about the JP Scroll glitch so used that wherever I could (which really was great for Math Skill) Ramza: Squire/Knight with Two Swords (including Save the Queen from Meliadoul, until I got Ragnarok at the end) Female: Wizard/Calculator Female: Dancer/Calculator Male: Bard/Time Mage Male: Chemist/Time Mage <- this one was my weakest guy and I was never quite sure what to do with him, he was a Thief for a good chunk of Chapters 3/4 game but just like Hasting my team so threw him in there at the end when I was ready to finish the game and didn't want to spend the time it takes to steal stuff. Also he had the Blaze Gun from Balk. Everyone had Teleport, and everyone had Auto-Potion except i gave Ramza Blade Grasp. Major (ridiculous) highlights of the run involve jacking up people's Speed and using Speed Break to just abuse the enemy: -Spending hours on Queklain maxing out the JP on my two Calculators so I'd never have to put them in that primary class again, Ramza yelling everywhere... the battle lasted so long that at one point Ramza said the same battle dialogue that he did early in the fight, I assume he went over 255 turns and it looped back around, lol... -Spending way too long on Elmdor trying to steal all Genji equipment, eventually I tried lowering his Brave using Foxbird and that decreased his evasion rate so lesson learned -Spending way too long on Worker No. 7 who was a higher level of my team so figured I'd be a good levelling opportunity, so literally had my team attacking him and my Chemist throwing potions to heal him, hahaha (this all proved to be a moot point since the best leveling is in the Deep Dungeon anyways) Really wanted to use new classes I had never mained before, and at least I got the Bard and Dancers going, but really tough to use other classes when Two Swords and Math Skill are just so powerful... next time I'll make Ramza a Samurai for sure. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punnyz 11/05/20 10:49:13 AM #178:	JP Scroll glitch just makes a great game even better I use it every time --- https://imgur.com/qBpLe47 https://imgur.com/25MHSn1 <cite>Punnyz posted [p:946760885] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>JP Scroll glitch just makes a great game even better I use it every time </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 11/05/20 10:49:29 AM #179:	I didn't mean to suggest you were arguing it was a rivalry. It was just a pet peeve of mine from back then and I have refused to let it go! --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:946760897] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>I didn't mean to suggest you were arguing it was a rivalry. It was just a pet peeve of mine from back then and I have refused to let it go! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket 11/05/20 10:52:36 AM #180:	Leonhart4 posted... I didn't mean to suggest you were arguing it was a rivalry. It was just a pet peeve of mine from back then and I have refused to let it go! Regardless what you call it, it was the only chance we were ever going to see Delita in a contest. --- It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest <cite>redrocket posted [p:946761032] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Leonhart4 posted... </cite> <quote>I didn't mean to suggest you were arguing it was a rivalry. It was just a pet peeve of mine from back then and I have refused to let it go!</quote> Regardless what you call it, it was the only chance we were ever going to see Delita in a contest. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 11/05/20 11:00:09 AM #181:	Nah, we could get Delita into a contest now if we really wanted to! But I'm also the guy who's good not seeing his favorite fodder character get 11% against Samus, so I'd have been fine not having Delita in! --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:946761352] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Nah, we could get Delita into a contest now if we really wanted to! But I'm also the guy who's good not seeing his favorite fodder character get 11% against Samus, so I'd have been fine not having Delita in! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punnyz 11/05/20 11:49:14 AM #182:	I'm gonna spoil the Deep Dungeon for you here but I'll let you know right now, DD doesn't have any story shit I think its 10 levels of maps and the only way to progress is to have a Unit land on a specific tile. They'll be like "I think I see a way in" or something DD is also worth exploring because you get a bunch of rare items, but only on the battlefield with Move Find Item. But the problem is that theres two items per tile. Most maps they're either the same item or inconsequential items, but here (and that Robot Temple) theres a chance to get a crappier item Move Find Item's success is reliant on your brave count, if your brave is 15, then you have an 85% chance to get the good item. So having an Oracle or Beowulf to cripple a unit's brave is a necessity. I used Rafa for this since she has already super low Brave Its the only place where you can get the Strongest Sword in the game, the Chaos Blade. I THINK You can get the other Knight Swords too? (Or am I just thinking about the Ninja Method?), but if you learned how to weapon dupe, then thats not a good reason to go down there JUSt for that Once you get to the last level, some random Merlin looking mother fucker comes out of his cave and is like You god damn whippersnappers wtf you doin, and pulls out a BRAND NEW made up Zodiac Stone. He turns into a Ninja Turtle lookin mother fucker. Hes unique because he also has a super special never seen before Summon too. If you bring in a Summoner and your unit gets hit by it, your Summoner learns this. Not only does the game not tell you this anywhere, but its the only place you can learn it, you only fight him once too. FOR SOME REASON, again, never explained, a monster called Byblos is your ally during this fight. Byblos is a monster in FFV I think? He also joins you after the battle. Its a mystery You get a small paragraph explaining a little bit of the Wizard's backstory in your menu afterwards but its really nothing much --- https://imgur.com/qBpLe47 https://imgur.com/25MHSn1 <cite>Punnyz posted [p:946763390] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>I'm gonna spoil the Deep Dungeon for you here but I'll let you know right now, DD doesn't have any story shit I think its 10 levels of maps and the only way to progress is to have a Unit land on a specific tile. They'll be like "I think I see a way in" or something DD is also worth exploring because you get a bunch of rare items, but only on the battlefield with Move Find Item. But the problem is that theres two items per tile. Most maps they're either the same item or inconsequential items, but here (and that Robot Temple) theres a chance to get a crappier item Move Find Item's success is reliant on your brave count, if your brave is 15, then you have an 85% chance to get the good item. So having an Oracle or Beowulf to cripple a unit's brave is a necessity. I used Rafa for this since she has already super low Brave Its the only place where you can get the Strongest Sword in the game, the Chaos Blade. I THINK You can get the other Knight Swords too? (Or am I just thinking about the Ninja Method?), but if you learned how to weapon dupe, then thats not a good reason to go down there JUSt for that Once you get to the last level, some random Merlin looking mother fucker comes out of his cave and is like You god damn whippersnappers wtf you doin, and pulls out a BRAND NEW made up Zodiac Stone. He turns into a Ninja Turtle lookin mother fucker. Hes unique because he also has a super special never seen before Summon too. If you bring in a Summoner and your unit gets hit by it, your Summoner learns this. Not only does the game not tell you this anywhere, but its the only place you can learn it, you only fight him once too. FOR SOME REASON, again, never explained, a monster called Byblos is your ally during this fight. Byblos is a monster in FFV I think? He also joins you after the battle. Its a mystery You get a small paragraph explaining a little bit of the Wizard's backstory in your menu afterwards but its really nothing much </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/05/20 1:56:50 PM #183:	That final boss sounds wild and I'm here for it but everything else beforehand, not so much. Looking at Ramza's contest history, how did he go from 42% on Kirby to losing to Garrus lol. --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946768982] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>That final boss sounds wild and I'm here for it but everything else beforehand, not so much. Looking at Ramza's contest history, how did he go from 42% on Kirby to losing to Garrus lol. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 11/05/20 1:59:25 PM #184:	andylt posted... That final boss sounds wild and I'm here for it but everything else beforehand, not so much. Looking at Ramza's contest history, how did he go from 42% on Kirby to losing to Garrus lol. Square in the first 5 years of the contest is very different to everything after that. Ramza lost to friggin' Hogger and went neck and neck with Laharl in 2008. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:946769110] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>andylt posted... </cite> <quote>That final boss sounds wild and I'm here for it but everything else beforehand, not so much. Looking at Ramza's contest history, how did he go from 42% on Kirby to losing to Garrus lol.</quote> Square in the first 5 years of the contest is very different to everything after that. Ramza lost to friggin' Hogger and went neck and neck with Laharl in 2008. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/05/20 3:01:03 PM #185:	So, some overall thoughts. I really, really liked this game. It hooked me pretty early with its moral grey gritty realistic tone and getting into the weeds with its politics and shading the characters pretty well. The gameplay is very addictive, still holds up today and manages to feel unique compared to others in its genre. I'm guessing it holds up well with multiple playthroughs given the sheer number of jobs you can have. It all feels very customisable and you can play how you want without getting overwhelmed by the choices. They also do a good job making the maps pretty varied and keeping things fresh through most of the runtime. The bars+bios are a good way of putting in background lore for those who want it while not making it way too complex and boring codex-y like in later FFs. Quibbles with the gameplay would be the random battles maybe, I like them every now and then but I dreaded having to cross the entire map to check out shops/bars and maybe having to fight a bunch of randoms on the way there. The number of sidequest/plot characters you get gets pretty high by the end too, so you have to throw most of your randoms away if you want to keep all the named ones. Despite what the tutorial says, there's really no need to focus on more than 5/6 party members for the duration, and trying to spread it out seems counter-intuitive. Sidequests and a few missable things are poorly marked too, I would have missed a lot more without help from you folks. Finally, the difficulty. The game is paced pretty damn well for the most part, with one glaring godforsaken castle that is just a bit too hard, but it gets way too easy in the final act. I didn't even use Cid and I walked through most of the final battles. The artstyle is pretty charming, some of the chibi models aren't great and the portrait faces all look the same, but they do manage to wring a great sense of atmosphere out of the environments. IDK the word for it in video games but there's good 'cinematography' in various scenes, and lots of really neat little details. Nice use of body language given the limitations too, much like FF8. Definitely aged better than FF7's visuals. The music is great, generally it's good background stuff but I never got tired of the battle musics and there's some really great tracks I will be continuing to listen to afterwards. Delita's theme is one I haven't mentioned that is great. All this would be well and good, but the primary draw for this game is its narrative imo. It's a very refreshing take on gritty medieval fantasy long before that stuff became en vogue with Game of Thrones etc. I'm a complete sucker for morally grey stories, and the game sets up discussions of classism, monarchy, power, nobility, corruption etc very well. Honestly this could be a great HBO miniseries. The primary flaw I have is that much of this stuff diminishes later on. Unlike some others I'm not against the addition of the stones and major fantasy elements, the story takes a left turn when they're introduced but for a while it does it well imo- Draclau and Wiegraf's sections use the fantasy elements to add to the game's themes and deepen their characterisation, but later on it feels kinda forced and they don't have the characters connect to their demons very well. The political side disappears entirely for the last few hours, as Martin correctly points out it would be hard not to with everyone already dead, but what is there still feels rushed and not so good. Vormav has no good dialogue scene, there's very little emotional conflict in the final battles, and by the end it feels like you're just ticking off the 12 stones for the sake of it. I'll go into more detail with the characters later on but I can't talk about the narrative without mentioning the Ramza/Delita dynamic. It's the central framework for the story as directly stated in the prologue, and their contrasting journeys play really well off each other. My criticism here is that there's just not enough of it, Delita in particular fades from the narrative later on and as said earlier the ending is a mess. Ramza doesn't get the last act centred on him much, only the stuff with his brothers and even that is minor. I very much like that they don't spell out the good guy/bad guy thing and leave Delita complex, but Ramza probably gets to be a little too pure and good. The other characters are for the most part good, though by the end I was a bit disappointed when someone joined my party because it meant they would hold zero plot relevance ever again. There was precisely one moment where Agrias speaks post-recruitment, and none of the others ever do (unless I missed them). It's a real shame that the game doesn't quite stick the landing in the final hours because everything before that is so good. You could remove the fantasy entirely and it would still be a great mature story of medieval war, it is just a shame they seem to lose sight of the game's themes, particularly of classism, by the end. Well that's all that comes to mind right now, I'll do a character-by-character discussion a bit later on. --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946771822] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>So, some overall thoughts. I really, really liked this game. It hooked me pretty early with its moral grey gritty realistic tone and getting into the weeds with its politics and shading the characters pretty well. The gameplay is very addictive, still holds up today and manages to feel unique compared to others in its genre. I'm guessing it holds up well with multiple playthroughs given the sheer number of jobs you can have. It all feels very customisable and you can play how you want without getting overwhelmed by the choices. They also do a good job making the maps pretty varied and keeping things fresh through most of the runtime. The bars+bios are a good way of putting in background lore for those who want it while not making it way too complex and boring codex-y like in later FFs. Quibbles with the gameplay would be the random battles maybe, I like them every now and then but I dreaded having to cross the entire map to check out shops/bars and maybe having to fight a bunch of randoms on the way there. The number of sidequest/plot characters you get gets pretty high by the end too, so you have to throw most of your randoms away if you want to keep all the named ones. Despite what the tutorial says, there's really no need to focus on more than 5/6 party members for the duration, and trying to spread it out seems counter-intuitive. Sidequests and a few missable things are poorly marked too, I would have missed a lot more without help from you folks. Finally, the difficulty. The game is paced pretty damn well for the most part, with one glaring godforsaken castle that is just a bit too hard, but it gets way too easy in the final act. I didn't even use Cid and I walked through most of the final battles. The artstyle is pretty charming, some of the chibi models aren't great and the portrait faces all look the same, but they do manage to wring a great sense of atmosphere out of the environments. IDK the word for it in video games but there's good 'cinematography' in various scenes, and lots of really neat little details. Nice use of body language given the limitations too, much like FF8. Definitely aged better than FF7's visuals. The music is great, generally it's good background stuff but I never got tired of the battle musics and there's some really great tracks I will be continuing to listen to afterwards. Delita's theme is one I haven't mentioned that is great. All this would be well and good, but the primary draw for this game is its narrative imo. It's a very refreshing take on gritty medieval fantasy long before that stuff became en vogue with Game of Thrones etc. I'm a complete sucker for morally grey stories, and the game sets up discussions of classism, monarchy, power, nobility, corruption etc very well. Honestly this could be a great HBO miniseries. The primary flaw I have is that much of this stuff diminishes later on. Unlike some others I'm not against the addition of the stones and major fantasy elements, the story takes a left turn when they're introduced but for a while it does it well imo- Draclau and Wiegraf's sections use the fantasy elements to add to the game's themes and deepen their characterisation, but later on it feels kinda forced and they don't have the characters connect to their demons very well. The political side disappears entirely for the last few hours, as Martin correctly points out it would be hard not to with everyone already dead, but what is there still feels rushed and not so good. Vormav has no good dialogue scene, there's very little emotional conflict in the final battles, and by the end it feels like you're just ticking off the 12 stones for the sake of it. I'll go into more detail with the characters later on but I can't talk about the narrative without mentioning the Ramza/Delita dynamic. It's the central framework for the story as directly stated in the prologue, and their contrasting journeys play really well off each other. My criticism here is that there's just not enough of it, Delita in particular fades from the narrative later on and as said earlier the ending is a mess. Ramza doesn't get the last act centred on him much, only the stuff with his brothers and even that is minor. I very much like that they don't spell out the good guy/bad guy thing and leave Delita complex, but Ramza probably gets to be a little too pure and good. The other characters are for the most part good, though by the end I was a bit disappointed when someone joined my party because it meant they would hold zero plot relevance ever again. There was precisely one moment where Agrias speaks post-recruitment, and none of the others ever do (unless I missed them). It's a real shame that the game doesn't quite stick the landing in the final hours because everything before that is so good. You could remove the fantasy entirely and it would still be a great mature story of medieval war, it is just a shame they seem to lose sight of the game's themes, particularly of classism, by the end. Well that's all that comes to mind right now, I'll do a character-by-character discussion a bit later on. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 11/05/20 3:19:40 PM #186:	Ramza is pure and good by design though. It's why the dynamic with Delita works. He's the one who actually goes against the tide, unlike Delita claiming he does and instead just becoming the tide. Delita thought he had to beat everyone at their own game to succeed, and it bit him at the very end. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:946772592] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Ramza is pure and good by design though. It's why the dynamic with Delita works. He's the one who actually goes against the tide, unlike Delita claiming he does and instead just becoming the tide. Delita thought he had to beat everyone at their own game to succeed, and it bit him at the very end. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket 11/05/20 4:13:11 PM #187:	Lets not forgot that Ramza and Delita are both necessary. The outcome for Ivalice is worse if either one of them is missing. --- It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest <cite>redrocket posted [p:946774936] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Lets not forgot that Ramza and Delita are both necessary. The outcome for Ivalice is worse if either one of them is missing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/05/20 4:22:53 PM #188:	I mean Delita does go on to rule over an age of peace right? It's not like he doesn't accomplish his goal, it just has a heavy cost. I like that they made it more nuanced than 'Ramza good Delita bad', but again they should've given more dialogue for Ramza at the end. Btw I'm using a guide for the exits and trying Deep Dungeon, I can't help myself. --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946775364] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>I mean Delita does go on to rule over an age of peace right? It's not like he doesn't accomplish his goal, it just has a heavy cost. I like that they made it more nuanced than 'Ramza good Delita bad', but again they should've given more dialogue for Ramza at the end. Btw I'm using a guide for the exits and trying Deep Dungeon, I can't help myself. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 11/05/20 4:38:04 PM #189:	Yeah, Delita is remembered as a good king for a reason, but even as the king and Ramza remembered during his day as an evil heretic, Delita still finds himself envious of the way Ramza lived his life. And yet I doubt Ramza envied Delita at all. That contrast is what makes them so good. --- http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/145/638.png https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:946776044] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, Delita is remembered as a good king for a reason, but even as the king and Ramza remembered during his day as an evil heretic, Delita still finds himself envious of the way Ramza lived his life. And yet I doubt Ramza envied Delita at all. That contrast is what makes them so good. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punnyz 11/05/20 7:29:13 PM #190:	I think the last time Agrias speaks is in the execution battle. Mustadio also speaks if you bring both of them While there are obviously exceptions here and there, for the most part, since its an open ended game and those Units can perma die, I guess they didn't want to bother coding the ability to check to see if those characters would be there or not and give them varying dialog I never used Meliadoul and I think SHE has one scene where she talks after she joins. I will at least mention, the PSP version gives Agrias one more scene, but it has nothing to do with anything and its more of an easter egg since its borderline absurd to see it. You have to still have Agrias' two lackeys with you, it can only be done on a certain chapter? you have to have over a certain amount of money, you have to hit up a specific town on a specific day (her BIRTHDAY to be exact) aaaand still have Mustadio Basically Mustadio gets a present for Agrias with the implication that he likes her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsGzFF_5YHE there it is EDIT: sorry for the excessive ramblings, but I just love this game and theres just so much stuff to it Agrias gets TWO scenes in the PSP version Heres the second one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbcPPD5O2Ps She gives Ovelia ~~The Knife~~ --- https://imgur.com/qBpLe47 https://imgur.com/25MHSn1 <cite>Punnyz posted [p:946784360] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>I think the last time Agrias speaks is in the execution battle. Mustadio also speaks if you bring both of them While there are obviously exceptions here and there, for the most part, since its an open ended game and those Units can perma die, I guess they didn't want to bother coding the ability to check to see if those characters would be there or not and give them varying dialog I never used Meliadoul and I think SHE has one scene where she talks after she joins. I will at least mention, the PSP version gives Agrias one more scene, but it has nothing to do with anything and its more of an easter egg since its borderline absurd to see it. You have to still have Agrias' two lackeys with you, it can only be done on a certain chapter? you have to have over a certain amount of money, you have to hit up a specific town on a specific day (her BIRTHDAY to be exact) aaaand still have Mustadio Basically Mustadio gets a present for Agrias with the implication that he likes her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsGzFF_5YHE there it is EDIT: sorry for the excessive ramblings, but I just love this game and theres just so much stuff to it Agrias gets TWO scenes in the PSP version Heres the second one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbcPPD5O2Ps She gives Ovelia The Knife </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/05/20 9:32:23 PM #192:	Don't apologise Pun, I love learning stuff like this! I wish there were more scenes like that with inter-party chat, but I get that it would've been an exorbitant amount to code for things that might well not happen. The knife scene is fine but a bit too neat probably, I don't mind not having that. The epilogue scene being out of nowhere did kind of add to its impact. I saw Cloud's quote suggesting the top of a volcano, and sure enough there is one on the map. I have absolutely zero recollection of fighting here before though. I beat Deep Dungeon! OK, the secret exits would be impossible without a guide, and I only got a few of the treasures, but it was still a nice run. The boss wasn't super easy so that's good, though it all really does come out of nowhere. Lol at the silent ally who is never explained. Think I'm about done with this playthrough :( Will still talk about the characters next though. --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946790125] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Don't apologise Pun, I love learning stuff like this! I wish there were more scenes like that with inter-party chat, but I get that it would've been an exorbitant amount to code for things that might well not happen. The knife scene is fine but a bit too neat probably, I don't mind not having that. The epilogue scene being out of nowhere did kind of add to its impact. I saw Cloud's quote suggesting the top of a volcano, and sure enough there is one on the map. I have absolutely zero recollection of fighting here before though. I beat Deep Dungeon! OK, the secret exits would be impossible without a guide, and I only got a few of the treasures, but it was still a nice run. The boss wasn't super easy so that's good, though it all really does come out of nowhere. Lol at the silent ally who is never explained. Think I'm about done with this playthrough :( Will still talk about the characters next though. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 11/05/20 9:47:03 PM #193:	Yeah, the volcano area is totally optional and only exists to hide Cloud's sword in. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:946790813] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, the volcano area is totally optional and only exists to hide Cloud's sword in. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/05/20 10:14:39 PM #194:	OK, time for character talk. Thankfully they're all handily noted in the menus, so I can't miss anyone out! In general the characters of this game are a strong point, the only usual weakness is how little most of them get to say/do. But many of them make a mark with their limited screentime anyway. Some of them don't though. Here's the worst/least interesting ones on there: Filler Tier Simon Orinas Ruvelia Omdoria Reis Besrodio Rudvich Celia Lede Kletian Balbanes Daravon Alazlam Elidlibs Meh Tier Teta Hyral- Not a character, but a plot device. Most memorable moment is her corpse hanging over the bridge. Beowulf- Cool name and intriguing how similar it is to Ramza's, but he's too minor and doesn't really do anything. St. Ajora- Cooler before he's resurrected. Rofel Wodring- Rofl. Marquis Mesdoram Elmdor- Did this dude come from the same portal as Cloud? I was really disappointed when I met him and thought he would be the big bad, thankfully that wasn't the case. He's a pretty tough boss but there's very little character there. High Priest Marge Funeral- It's pretty hilarious how much this guy gets mentioned before he's seen, and then the very first moment on screen he's already been fatally stabbed. What a waste, though I get that's the point. Rafa & Malak Galthana- I just wasn't feeling their arc. They're fine. They exist to show the positive powers of the stones (which, thinking about it... doesn't come up again in any meaningful way?? Interesting.) Meliadoul Tingel- Again, just wasn't feeling it. She wants to avenge her more interesting bro, then turns to the good side after stumbling in at the right moment. Not much there, pretty rushed. Maybe if I used her she would have lines against her father. Prince Druksmald Goltana- 'Nobody's wants you to be King'. That's about right. He has terrible, terrible instincts, mistrusting Cid and just instantly trusting Delita. Not much to him. Zalmo Rusnada- Interesting enough to be here for two battles, and it is indicated he has a lot of power in the game, but all we get to see is a zealot. He's alright though, serves his purpose. Alma Beoulve- It's funny, when we first met Ovelia I thought she'd be a boring damsel princess, but she got more interesting as the game went on. Alma was the opposite, started out a potentially interesting sibling who wasn't aware of what was going on in her family, but then she just becomes a one-dimensional damsel to be saved for the back half of the game. Disappointing. Vormav Tingel- Speaking of disappointing, oof. This game is so good at layering the antagonists, making them interesting and fighting for their own cause. Not this guy though, the closest thing to a Big Bad we have. He's just evil for evil's sake, has two kids but no emotional weight there at all, the reveal that he's behind it all doesn't feel final because he's not interesting enough. Not sure what they were going for with him. Alright, that's the chaff out of the way. Hopefully I didn't step on anyone's fav. I'll get to the interesting ones tomorrow. --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946792007] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>OK, time for character talk. Thankfully they're all handily noted in the menus, so I can't miss anyone out! In general the characters of this game are a strong point, the only usual weakness is how little most of them get to say/do. But many of them make a mark with their limited screentime anyway. Some of them don't though. Here's the worst/least interesting ones on there: Filler Tier Simon Orinas Ruvelia Omdoria Reis Besrodio Rudvich Celia Lede Kletian Balbanes Daravon Alazlam Elidlibs Meh Tier Teta Hyral- Not a character, but a plot device. Most memorable moment is her corpse hanging over the bridge. Beowulf- Cool name and intriguing how similar it is to Ramza's, but he's too minor and doesn't really do anything. St. Ajora- Cooler before he's resurrected. Rofel Wodring- Rofl. Marquis Mesdoram Elmdor- Did this dude come from the same portal as Cloud? I was really disappointed when I met him and thought he would be the big bad, thankfully that wasn't the case. He's a pretty tough boss but there's very little character there. High Priest Marge Funeral- It's pretty hilarious how much this guy gets mentioned before he's seen, and then the very first moment on screen he's already been fatally stabbed. What a waste, though I get that's the point. Rafa & Malak Galthana- I just wasn't feeling their arc. They're fine. They exist to show the positive powers of the stones (which, thinking about it... doesn't come up again in any meaningful way?? Interesting.) Meliadoul Tingel- Again, just wasn't feeling it. She wants to avenge her more interesting bro, then turns to the good side after stumbling in at the right moment. Not much there, pretty rushed. Maybe if I used her she would have lines against her father. Prince Druksmald Goltana- 'Nobody's wants you to be King'. That's about right. He has terrible, terrible instincts, mistrusting Cid and just instantly trusting Delita. Not much to him. Zalmo Rusnada- Interesting enough to be here for two battles, and it is indicated he has a lot of power in the game, but all we get to see is a zealot. He's alright though, serves his purpose. Alma Beoulve- It's funny, when we first met Ovelia I thought she'd be a boring damsel princess, but she got more interesting as the game went on. Alma was the opposite, started out a potentially interesting sibling who wasn't aware of what was going on in her family, but then she just becomes a one-dimensional damsel to be saved for the back half of the game. Disappointing. Vormav Tingel- Speaking of disappointing, oof. This game is so good at layering the antagonists, making them interesting and fighting for their own cause. Not this guy though, the closest thing to a Big Bad we have. He's just evil for evil's sake, has two kids but no emotional weight there at all, the reveal that he's behind it all doesn't feel final because he's not interesting enough. Not sure what they were going for with him. Alright, that's the chaff out of the way. Hopefully I didn't step on anyone's fav. I'll get to the interesting ones tomorrow. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 11/05/20 11:30:39 PM #195:	Wow Beowulf can turn people into chickens he deserves better than that --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:946795252] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Wow Beowulf can turn people into chickens he deserves better than that </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punnyz 11/05/20 11:51:17 PM #196:	Beowulf is basically an Oracle that can wear armor and kill people with a sword --- https://imgur.com/qBpLe47 https://imgur.com/25MHSn1 <cite>Punnyz posted [p:946795950] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Beowulf is basically an Oracle that can wear armor and kill people with a sword </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MalcolmMasher 11/05/20 11:51:32 PM #197:	I think you pieced this together at some point, but FF12 is set in the distant past of FFT, when moogles and airships and suchlike were still around, and a fair ways to the east as well if I recall correctly. Dancer is parallel to Bard. Bard requires a male unit with lv4 in Mediator and Summoner, Dancer requires a female unit with lv4 in Geomancer and Lancer. In the Old English story of Beowulf, he has a sidekick named Wiglaf. FFT Beowulf uses a Chapter 1 Wiegraf sprite base. I don't think his name has more meaning than that. Maybe if I used her she would have lines against her father. Yeah, in the Murond Holy Place fight. I think the PSP remake also has a scene where she speaks to Kletian (the Shrine Knight wizard you don't really notice in Murond Holy Place and steamroll in Murond Death City.) --- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. <cite>MalcolmMasher posted [p:946795960] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>I think you pieced this together at some point, but FF12 is set in the distant past of FFT, when moogles and airships and suchlike were still around, and a fair ways to the east as well if I recall correctly. Dancer is parallel to Bard. Bard requires a male unit with lv4 in Mediator and Summoner, Dancer requires a female unit with lv4 in Geomancer and Lancer. In the Old English story of Beowulf, he has a sidekick named Wiglaf. FFT Beowulf uses a Chapter 1 Wiegraf sprite base. I don't think his name has more meaning than that. Maybe if I used her she would have lines against her father. Yeah, in the Murond Holy Place fight. I think the PSP remake also has a scene where she speaks to Kletian (the Shrine Knight wizard you don't really notice in Murond Holy Place and steamroll in Murond Death City.)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punnyz 11/05/20 11:54:45 PM #198:	Also I think Elmdoor is this universe's version of Sephiroth. Just like how theres also a version of Aeris --- https://imgur.com/qBpLe47 https://imgur.com/25MHSn1 <cite>Punnyz posted [p:946796079] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Also I think Elmdoor is this universe's version of Sephiroth. Just like how theres also a version of Aeris </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MartinFF7 11/06/20 12:41:14 AM #199:	Good rankings so far. It is interesting how Elmdor goes from rando kidnap victim in Chapter 1 to part of the big evil gang, but really isn't given any real opportunity to get fleshed out. Did he become Lucavi after getting "killed" on the battlefield or was he one of original gang? Would've just started out with Vormav and Draclau otherwise. Definitely agree with you on Vormav bigtime, compared to so many of the bad guys he really brings nothing to the table. Rafa and Malak and their whole arc with the Duke is also so irrelevant, I'm also really annoyed at the stone magically bringing him back to life. I like the Alma moment with Ramza before & during the first Zalmo fight but yeah. ...Celia and Lede are meh tier if only for yeeting the Duke off the roof, lol <cite>MartinFF7 posted [p:946797641] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Good rankings so far. It is interesting how Elmdor goes from rando kidnap victim in Chapter 1 to part of the big evil gang, but really isn't given any real opportunity to get fleshed out. Did he become Lucavi after getting "killed" on the battlefield or was he one of original gang? Would've just started out with Vormav and Draclau otherwise. Definitely agree with you on Vormav bigtime, compared to so many of the bad guys he really brings nothing to the table. Rafa and Malak and their whole arc with the Duke is also so irrelevant, I'm also really annoyed at the stone magically bringing him back to life. I like the Alma moment with Ramza before & during the first Zalmo fight but yeah. ...Celia and Lede are meh tier if only for yeeting the Duke off the roof, lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heroic Bigpun 11/06/20 12:56:02 AM #200:	Friendly reminder they're actually two giant hulking demons --- pUnny at his phone. Expect tYpos <cite>Heroic Bigpun posted [p:946798060] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Friendly reminder they're actually two giant hulking demons </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/06/20 8:31:35 AM #201:	I did not get to see Beowulf turn people into chickens and now regret not putting him on my team. I also forgot about yeeting the Duke, whichever one of the assassins did that should go up a tier indeed. The stone bringing Malak back to life gets so weird now that I see they did nothing with that past that point. I guess they're just showing how everyone else had been corrupted so much they just assumed the default stone thing was to turn them evil? Which was Rafa's stone again actually, I'm wondering which XII summon it's tied to and if that makes it any clearer. Punnyz posted... Also I think Elmdoor is this universe's version of Sephiroth. Just like how theres also a version of Aeris One could say Teta is this game's version of Aeris. JK, but if he really is supposed to be Seph then he probably was a bad guy back when we rescued him at the start, huh. Interesting. MalcolmMasher posted... I think you pieced this together at some point, but FF12 is set in the distant past of FFT, when moogles and airships and suchlike were still around, and a fair ways to the east as well if I recall correctly. Dancer is parallel to Bard. Bard requires a male unit with lv4 in Mediator and Summoner, Dancer requires a female unit with lv4 in Geomancer and Lancer. In the Old English story of Beowulf, he has a sidekick named Wiglaf. FFT Beowulf uses a Chapter 1 Wiegraf sprite base. I don't think his name has more meaning than that. I was meaning to ask about FF12! I did think of it but wasn't sure if it was confirmed, that's a very cool thing. So the summons in XII survive all the way to becoming demons in Tactics, that's interesting too. The XII summons being these evil beings actually makes them more interesting in that game. (I haven't played XII in so long, it could well be established in there too). So that's how you get Dancer, my female units were magic-focused or Agrias so no wonder I didn't get that. I guess I figured 'Beowulf' was so close to 'Beoulve' that was the connection they were intending, that works though. Did Beowulf fall in love with a dragon lady in the story, I haven't read a version of it since school! --- Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020! <cite>andylt posted [p:946806772] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>I did not get to see Beowulf turn people into chickens and now regret not putting him on my team. I also forgot about yeeting the Duke, whichever one of the assassins did that should go up a tier indeed. The stone bringing Malak back to life gets so weird now that I see they did nothing with that past that point. I guess they're just showing how everyone else had been corrupted so much they just assumed the default stone thing was to turn them evil? Which was Rafa's stone again actually, I'm wondering which XII summon it's tied to and if that makes it any clearer. Punnyz posted... </cite> <quote>Also I think Elmdoor is this universe's version of Sephiroth. Just like how theres also a version of Aeris</quote>One could say Teta is this game's version of Aeris. JK, but if he really is supposed to be Seph then he probably was a bad guy back when we rescued him at the start, huh. Interesting. MalcolmMasher posted... </cite> <quote>I think you pieced this together at some point, but FF12 is set in the distant past of FFT, when moogles and airships and suchlike were still around, and a fair ways to the east as well if I recall correctly. Dancer is parallel to Bard. Bard requires a male unit with lv4 in Mediator and Summoner, Dancer requires a female unit with lv4 in Geomancer and Lancer. In the Old English story of Beowulf, he has a sidekick named Wiglaf. FFT Beowulf uses a Chapter 1 Wiegraf sprite base. I don't think his name has more meaning than that.</quote>I was meaning to ask about FF12! I did think of it but wasn't sure if it was confirmed, that's a very cool thing. So the summons in XII survive all the way to becoming demons in Tactics, that's interesting too. The XII summons being these evil beings actually makes them more interesting in that game. (I haven't played XII in so long, it could well be established in there too). So that's how you get Dancer, my female units were magic-focused or Agrias so no wonder I didn't get that. I guess I figured 'Beowulf' was so close to 'Beoulve' that was the connection they were intending, that works though. Did Beowulf fall in love with a dragon lady in the story, I haven't read a version of it since school! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Punnyz 11/06/20 10:22:54 AM #202:	Theres some mechanics I don't think you ran into I think you got the basics of what Brave and Faith do but to go a step further, in battle, if you lower someone's brave below 10, they literally become a chicken. The funny thing is, this is probably a cosmetic thing to show how cowardly they've become, but its weird thinking about that when theres actual spells that turn people into frogs around as well. So it might be either way lol While in chicken mode They will run around the battle field without your input, and without fighting, and each turn they gain 1 brave back until they have 10, then they turn back to a normal unit and you can use them again. This is why Deep Dungeon becomes MORE of a chore. You WANT the best items, so at some point you will start having to baby a unit and decrease their brave, and they will inevitably turn into a chicken and you will have to wait until they hit 10 brave again. Thats a 90% chance of getting the good item on the item tile at that point Beowulf is synonomous with chickens because hes the best way to decrease brave, I think he has an attack that takes like 30 brave away. I think Oracles do like 3-10? I know at that point you may as well just be attacking them but its fun turning them into chickens While this drastic decrease of brave is only for the battle it happens in and will go to "normal" afterwards, each time your unit's brave or faith takes a hit OR gets increased, it will lower or increase 1 point permanently respectively. This is ANOTHER thing I will get into right now if your unit has too low base brave, I think below 30? They will make a comment in the Unit Menu. I think theres a few different ones but yea, its weird when your generics start talking to you. They're scared and want to leave. If you go into one more battle and don't perma increase their brave, they WILL PERMANENTLY GO AWOL and you lose them forever. The only ones exempt from this are Ramza and Guests. This can even happen to Agrias and Orlandu. I mentioned I used Rafa for the DD, but one time I actually almost made her run off because her base Brave is so low, I made it take too many hits lol This also happens with Faith, But in reverse! If their Faith is Over 90, then they will question their position in all of this violence and then want to leave to go roam the earth. --- https://imgur.com/qBpLe47 https://imgur.com/25MHSn1 <cite>Punnyz posted [p:946810862] in Andy plays... [t:79054067]...</cite> <quote>Theres some mechanics I don't think you ran into I think you got the basics of what Brave and Faith do but to go a step further, in battle, if you lower someone's brave below 10, they literally become a chicken. The funny thing is, this is probably a cosmetic thing to show how cowardly they've become, but its weird thinking about that when theres actual spells that turn people into frogs around as well. So it might be either way lol While in chicken mode They will run around the battle field without your input, and without fighting, and each turn they gain 1 brave back until they have 10, then they turn back to a normal unit and you can use them again. This is why Deep Dungeon becomes MORE of a chore. You WANT the best items, so at some point you will start having to baby a unit and decrease their brave, and they will inevitably turn into a chicken and you will have to wait until they hit 10 brave again. Thats a 90% chance of getting the good item on the item tile at that point Beowulf is synonomous with chickens because hes the best way to decrease brave, I think he has an attack that takes like 30 brave away. I think Oracles do like 3-10? I know at that point you may as well just be attacking them but its fun turning them into chickens While this drastic decrease of brave is only for the battle it happens in and will go to "normal" afterwards, each time your unit's brave or faith takes a hit OR gets increased, it will lower or increase 1 point permanently respectively. This is ANOTHER thing I will get into right now if your unit has too low base brave, I think below 30? They will make a comment in the Unit Menu. I think theres a few different ones but yea, its weird when your generics start talking to you. They're scared and want to leave. If you go into one more battle and don't perma increase their brave, they WILL PERMANENTLY GO AWOL and you lose them forever. The only ones exempt from this are Ramza and Guests. This can even happen to Agrias and Orlandu. I mentioned I used Rafa for the DD, but one time I actually almost made her run off because her base Brave is so low, I made it take too many hits lol This also happens with Faith, But in reverse! If their Faith is Over 90, then they will question their position in all of this violence and then want to leave to go roam the earth. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Andy plays Final Fantasy Tactics (Blind Playthrough) (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Andy plays Final Fantasy Tactics (Blind Playthrough)