Board 8 > Andy plays Final Fantasy Tactics (Blind Playthrough)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I remember the tutorial saying about people leaving if their Bravery/Faith levels get too low/high, but forgot about it completely. I pretty much ignored Bravery/Faith and the Zodiac compatibility stuff for the whole game lol. Deep Dungeon doesn't sound worth it for all that stuff, what is the point of even getting all that gear there's nothing harder still to come afterwards!

Decent Tier
AKA 'Minor villains with their own values and a bit of depth who challenge Ramza's preconceived notions of morality tier'

Miluda Folles- Chapter 1 gets into a rhythm of these kinds of characters opening Ramza's (and the player's) world up bit by bit. Miluda is the big obvious one, the clearest 'good' who spells out the situation so plainly even Ramza can't avoid it anymore. Her death is the inciting event for much of what comes afterwards, and she fills her narrative job perfectly well. Some great dialogue too, maybe I should put her higher but she belongs with this group I think.
Gustav Margueriff- It would be easy to make him the simple bad guy to make Wiegraf look better, but the game lets him have his own reasons for doubting Wiegraf's methods. Very minor but a nice note that the game puts detail into the small things.
Golagros Levine- Another desperate member of the Death Corps, it's hard not to feel for him a little bit with the situation they're all in. Props to him for blowing up the fort knowing it means his own death. His plan was fine, he just kidnapped someone who doesn't matter to the Beoulves.
Balk Fenzol- A commoner who wants to remove the stranglehold of the nobility, he's kind of a twisted version of Delita. Filled with hatred for the aristocracy but wants power himself just to feel equal, and sides with the devil to do it. Done pretty well considering he only appears twice.
Balmafula Lanando- Comes out of absolutely nowhere and doesn't really do that much, but she's a sounding board for Delita and her hesitance to kill him gives her a bit of personality. She's loyal to her cause but does begin to question things and see other points of view, which is enough to keep her off of the piles of bodies of people who refuse to change their minds until too late in this game.
Cardinal Alphons Draclau- Cool bad guy. Our introduction to the Lucavi, and his low-key intro makes his heel turn much stronger. Kills Rudvich for failing him, and being the first demon boss as Queklain stamps him into memory for good.
Grand Duke Gelkanis Barinten- Another striking bad guy. Burns a whole village just to get a couple of gifted kids, then raises them to think of him as their own father. Twisted as hell. Super ambitious and actually pretty smart, he'd probably succeed if his opponents weren't magical demons. Very memorable even though his appearances are confined to the absolutely stacked Castle From Hell sequence.
Prince Bestrada Larg- Better than his opponent just from having a connection to the Beoulves. We don't really see him much (I'm looking through a game script and he only has seven lines in the whole game!) but with Dycedarg as his right hand man we know more about his plots, and he was in on a lot of it. He planned the Marquis' kidnapping, knew about Balbanes' murder, actually seems to not mind Ramza, and getting stabbed in the heart by your closest ally has gotta be rough.

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Balma actually has her very own unique class, but because shes never in battle, you never see it. With that said, BECAUSE she has her own class its speculated she probably had a bigger role than she did, or at the very least would accompany you as a guest to a battle, but what we got is what we got

Also, fans believe Delita cut her tongue off, because of him attacking her and in the ending she uses gestures to communicate with Olan

but nothing is established

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Yeah, the thought is that Delita cut out her tongue so she could never tell the truth of what she knew about him.

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That would make sense, I guess. But she still must have some loyalty to him or she'd be a constant threat to assassinate him in his sleep. What was her unique class btw?

'I'm probably ranking them too high because they were on my team for a while so I connected with them' Tier

Lady Agrias Oaks- Kind and loyal, the first thing we see of her is her reluctance to kill opposing soldiers. She has absolutely terrible political instincts- trusting Gafgarion, bringing Ovelia to Draclau and suggesting we ask the High Priest for help. Unlike Goltana though, her poor instincts are due to assuming everybody else is as honourable and loyal to the crown as her. Points to her for not having a moment's hesitation in trusting Ramza when she finds out his identity. She becomes silent after that but was a regular member of the team and I like to think she broadened her perspective afterwards, given that she has no problems later on attacking the church. She doesn't ever back down from a fight.

Mustadio Bunansa- A good guy, introduces the stones to the plot and most importantly a great party member. He and his father honestly fit the 'Cid' archetype more than the actual Cid. Gets to be friends with Ramza very fast, and successfully manages to trick Rudvich and by extension the Church. Some lighter comic moments in the sidequests too, it's just a shame characters turn silent once they join you.

Olan Durai- Smart guy. Thinks for himself and isn't just sitting around waiting for Ramza to solve the world's problems. Kind-hearted too. He reacts to events the way a reasonable person would, and the bond with his father is one of the few nice relationships that doesn't get broken in some way or other. Tries to go out on his own to help things out, but it doesn't always work out. Forgiving and willing to change his mind, it's no surprise he survives (until he gets burned at the stake apparently >_>)

10. Algus Sadalfas- Love how they use Algus. He's a show and tell for what this game will be like, starting off as a nice and grateful friend of Ramza's, and we are sympathetic to him as he's a lower-tier noble looking to restore his family's honour. Looking over the script now there's little hints of his disdain for commoners planted very early on, and of course that sprouts into absolute disgust and then murderous hatred. Ramza, Delita and Algus turn from three friends on an adventure to bitter entrenched enemies with views on the world that can't possibly be reconciled with one another over the course of a handful of missions. He's a dark reminder of what Ramza could've been if he didn't have Delita, and it's still easy to feel some kind of sympathy for him as he follows the orders of those he has been taught to see as superior. His death is as important as Teta's for the narrative, he's the first ally we lose and sets the tone for the game. A great character, imo.

9. Izlude Tingel- OK he might be a little high for how minor he is but I just like this dude. A fundamentally decent guy serving the wrong side, his reasons honestly make pretty good sense. Turns out he was right after all that the stones aren't evil, but his father unfortunately was. He shows care for Wiegraf when he has to leave him, and offers Ramza an alliance. The only blood he wants to spill is that of corrupt nobles, I think he could've been very successful if he was just in a different position. He would've served Delita well. His death is pretty brutal too, watching his father turn into a monster and kill him. Poor guy.

8. Dycedarg Beoulve- You could argue he's the main antagonist. A pretty amoral figure, he is nonetheless very smart and does manage to increase the Beoulve's reputation. Willing to betray anyone though offers Ramza forgiveness at one point, I get the sense he had a hard childhood himself and resents Ramza's for being so loving. He does so well for himself it's easy to forget he has no connection to the stones or greater plot at all, he gets as far as he does through his own intelligence and ambition. He doesn't even seem to dislike his brothers, he just can't comprehend why they don't see the world the way he does. He really does manipulate events awfully well, in a world without magic he may well have won.

7. Count Cidolfas 'T.G. 'Thundergod' Cid' Orlandu- A grizzled war veteran who actually wants to help people, he is more subtle than he first lets on and it turns out he and his son have been investigating things themselves for a while. He's pretty cautious but doesn't even consider betraying his Prince, and unfortunately is imprisoned and nearly killed because of his lack of self-preservation instinct. One of the few old guard who is still around, clearly respected as a warrior by all until politics takes over. It is only when he joins us that we see what a ******* monster he is on the field, he certainly lives up to his very grand title. Love his relationship with his adopted son, he clearly raised a good one. Again a shame he disappears from the narrative once joining us.


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but to go a step further, in battle, if you lower someone's brave below 10, they literally become a chicken. The funny thing is, this is probably a cosmetic thing to show how cowardly they've become, but its weird thinking about that when theres actual spells that turn people into frogs around as well.

You get the same damage bonus when attacking Chickens that you get when attacking Frogs, so I would argue that it is an actual transformation.

Mediators can decrease Brave by 20 (-5 permanent), Oracles by 30 (-7 permanent), and Beowulf by 50 (-12 permanent). Random enemies are generated with 46-74 Brave, so Beowulf can insta-Chicken a decent fraction of enemies, while Mediators and Oracles always need multiple actions.

Pretty sure there's a decent range of Br/Fa values in between "units start whining" and "units leave the party" but I prefer to stay out of the whining range entirely.
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6. Zalbag Beoulve
Again the game doesn't take the easy road with Zalbag, he could be the 'nice' brother or the less intelligent but still amoral brother, but the game takes a middle ground. He obviously likes Ramza and only turns against him when Ramza tries to turn him against Dycedarg. He's trusting of his family and tries to do 'good' as he sees it given the position he was born into. The boldest move with him I think was to have him order Teta's execution and not Dycedarg, really adds more layers to their ideas of honour that it wasn't just the 'evil' brother who didn't really care about the commoner.
He comes into his own though after Larg's death, where he gets up the courage to investigate Dycedarg himself and realises Ramza was right. The fact this takes so long just shows how much he trusted his brother, it didn't even occur to him that Ramza could've been telling the truth. He steps up to the plate after this, and of course his natural instinct is to honestly go and confront his brother alone, still not realising how far Dycedarg was willing to go. He pays the price and has a pretty horrifying end, but his last thoughts are of Alma and Ramza and he tries to comfort his little brother in his dying moments. A flawed man trying to do good as his world had taught him, he could be the hero of a more standard medieval fantasy but sadly he wasn't cut out for this one.

5. 'Princess' Ovelia Atkascha
I didn't think much of Ovelia at all at first, she seemed the typical 'good pure damsel princess' type who would end up ruling peacefully and maybe getting romantically involved with Ramza. That all changes when she learns she wasn't born a princess at all, something I consider one of the best twists in the game. It doesn't really have any impact plotwise but that's the point, it reinforces all the game's themes of class separation and the artificial differences society instills in people. The revelation obviously screws with her own sense of self.
Meeting Delita is her turning point, the first scene with them in the ruins of the church is great, it's abrupt but of course the two lost souls will find comfort in each other. I never saw her relationship with Delita as a romantic one at its core, but more of an emotional connection that bonds the two of them. Of course she starts to trust Delita then pretty much goes hollow when she thinks he's just using her too, no wonder she does what she does at the end. It's a pretty plainly tragic story for her- losing her identity, finding comfort and starting to trust in spite of her instincts then feeling betrayed and just ending it all in those same church ruins. She's pretty smart too, makes note of not trusting Draclau and always being a bit wary of Delita. You could argue her end is one she pushes herself into, she's looking for signs of Delita using her and of course sees them, and being removed from her old friends (she doesn't see Agrias, Ramza and co ever again after the waterfall battle) leaves her with nobody to confide in.
It could've worked out so differently, but that's how all great tragedies go. I believe Delita really did care about her, but she didn't feel that anyone did by the end and it's hard to come back from that.

4. Gaff Gafgarion
A very memorable character with a bunch of great dialogue. He's pretty intransigent and doesn't evolve his views at all over the course of the game, but given that he has an explicitly carved worldview he's very capable of defending it. His way of thinking is pretty interesting, he thinks the idea of protecting the princess for example is utmost hypocrisy given the scores of commoners that die for no reason. I get the sense he didn't just fall into this amorality, it's something he's been pushed into given the hardships he must've endured in the last war (I really love how that war hangs over the presence of anyone who was involved in it). He's a great antagonist, his nihilistic judgment is something that's super understandable given the world around him- of course Ramza's idealism sounds like childish naivete to him.
His manner is also just really cool to watch, the way he openly speaks with contempt to Dycedarg but knows he's gonna do nothing about it because they're both pragmatists on the same side. 'Mercenary who does anything for cash' is a well-worn trope but Gaff makes it seem really fresh, and almost honourable even. He speaks sense in a way that can make Ramza, Agrias and even the player uncomfortable, and forces Ramza to really reckon with what he's fighting for. Also introducing him as a super powerful ally makes his shift all the more menacing, a truly terrific character.

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Yea, Agrias stops having relevance SUPER early but everyone still loves her. She and Ramza are my favorite characters (Orlandu too but for super shallow reasons)

Also, everybody has sympathy for Izlude but come one, he was involved with the murder of the priests at Orbonne, including Simon. And...there was seriously no need for that >_>. Sure he was fighting for what he believed in (I GUESS) and it was probably Wiegraf's call, but it seemed super petty. Poor Simon. Probably did a bunch of other shit we don't know about either.

Kinda like how everyone thinks Stroheim is cool in Jojo but he murdered a whole village of Mexicans for his experiments...and the fact that hes a nazi.

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andylt posted...

Smart guy.

Olan:"Hey Church, heres some shit that discredits you"

Church:"....."

*jump cuts to him burning alive*

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I took that as him knowing what was gonna happen but deciding it was best to try and expose the truth anyway.

Also like nearly everybody in this game murders people by the truckload so I guess I don't hold that against anyone in particular >_> Also the church was straight up evil, even if Simon washed his hands of them and claimed neutrality.

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Izlude has the best Zodiac Stone, and he honestly had good intentions, much like Wiegraf did originally. It doesn't excuse what he joined himself to, but he at least backed out once he fully saw what it was and even protected Alma from his father. He could've been like Meliadoul, so that makes him a sympathetic figure.

The Beoulve family is fantastic. Wish we could've had more Balbanes backstory.

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3. Wiegraf Folles
Oh Wiegraf, I had such high hopes for you. I expected Ramza to join your side at first, even. A morally grey character from the start, Wiegraf could easily be framed as the hero of Act 1. His motives are obviously good, but much like Ramza his tactics and ideas do come under question from those around him, and unfortunately he was dealt an unwinnable hand from the start. He is willing to die fighting for his cause, but those he wants to protect just want food, water and survival. He sees the bigger picture of wanting respect, dignity and to fight for equality, but his position is simply too desperate to make that viable.
Like Cid and Gafgarion before him, the 50 year war lingers large over Wiegraf's presence, and when we meet him he already seems past his peak. But his principles are paramount to him, at least until his sister and all the commoners he tried to protect die horribly. As with Delita's similar situation this triggers a permanent shift in him, but his is much darker than even Delita's. When we see him again in Chapter 3 after such a long time, clad in church knight garb, my heart sank. This game has no shortage of tragedies and death, but seeing Wiegraf having fundamentally abandoned his ideals in the pursuit of power is heartbreaking. He still cares for humanity until his (first) death, but his flame has long since been doused. The stone robs him of his humanity for good and transforms him into a demon, though knowing now about the stone's other powers it's a shame he couldn't use its powers for good, which I guess would've likely happened if he died in Chapter 1 instead with the stone.
By the time Ramza meets Wiegraf in Riovanes he has been corrupted into someone with a dark twisted inverse version of his past ideals. His shift with each encounter from having ideals, to having abandoned them, to resenting and lashing out against all of humanity, is done very well. Someone earlier in the topic mentioned this, but Wiegraf's dialogues with Ramza are among the best in the game. He can challenge him on a level not even Delita can, and his eloquence and intelligence shows just what a shame it is that society doomed him to being nothing based solely on the station of his birth. There are a lot of parallels between Wiegraf and Delita, whose journeys kind of follow the same philosophical lines.
I wish we'd seen him in chapter 2 somewhere, though I know that his absence there is what makes his inevitable return hit harder. His fight is the hardest in the game, and you could argue that whole sequence is the peak of the narrative and indeed the game. The game would be notably worse without Wiegraf's presence, and in many other games he would be #1 for me. A fav for sure.

2. Ramza Beoulve
In a game packed with compelling antagonists, the lead could have easily been forgotten entirely. It's a testament to Ramza's complex personality and development that he stands with the best in this game.
At the beginning of the story he's pretty passive towards his social superiors; grimacing at being complimented for killing thieves, going along with orders and even largely sitting there and taking whatever abuse is hurled at him by the many bandits he massacres. When he disobeys an order he is very contrite and doesn't try defending himself. He begins to question his role and his own ignorance pretty seriously, and witnessing his best friend's anguish is probably what pushes him away from the Beoulve comforts, even before Teta's death. Even here you can see his leadership qualities, honour and morals, but when everything around him and his vision of the world falls apart he... flees.
In many stories, throwing off the shackles of his name would be the singular turning point for the hero, and his moral purity from that point would carry him through any burdens. That kind of happens here, but Ramza continues to grow and question himself as his principles are challenged by Gafgarion and others around him, and as a result of this forced introspection his values solidify and strengthen into hard ideals. Throughout the game from this point he gradually grows more and more confident in his arguments, and by Chapter 3 he's lecturing more than he's being lectured. His sense of right and wrong, though shifting, always remains at the core of any decision he makes. He just has a compulsion to help anyone around him, and happens to fall into the leader role without really trying (like any good FF protagonist!).
I like how varied his relationships are with each member of his family, and just like true families even when they're on opposite sides of war there's still a casual intimacy there, as seen when Ramza visits Zalbag and Alma. Unfortunately the final confrontation with Dycedarg is pretty underwhelming as I've already said, I don't know if it was intentional to show how Ramza has moved past him but it's weird there's no proper dialogue scene there between the two of them (the only lines Ramza has in that sequence before Dyce's death are 'Zalbag!' twice).
Later in the story Ramza just goes along with each new absurd evil demon plot development, and my main critique here I guess is that he doesn't feel like he has much internal conflict after a certain point. I get that he knows who he is and what he stands for by then, but there's just not much going on with him internally in the final act. The one interesting relationship that remains is with Delita, but their last scene together is in the church long before the end of the narrative, and as the rest of his party is silent there's not much else left.
Ramza and Delita's relationship is of course central to the entire game and transcends either character, the contrast between them and their strained friendship is the primary example of the game's themes. Ramza by default gets the less interesting angle later in the game, being the pure good hero and his journey leading him more towards fantasy and away from the (IMO) more interesting political side of the story.

Fun fact: Here's Ramza's five final lines in the game:
What have you done to Alma!?
Alma!!
Alma!!
Alma!!
Alma!! Are you ok!?

His arc seems to end before the narrative does, and that's probably why he's not #1 for me. But he is still a great protagonist and character, and hey these are just my gut instinct rankings/writeups right after finishing the game so who knows what my opinion will be in a week/month/year.

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Get Ready for a Delita explosion

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more random Trivia

St Ajora's portrait is in the game's code. Perhaps implying there was gonna be a flashback or simply the portrait was gonna be in the Menu Chronicles



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and in 2018 one of the FFT boys shared their concept art of Ajora


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I'm trying to brainstorm random things to share since this topic is coming to a close

all I can think of are two more things

Wiegraf gets an additional cutscene in the PSP version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOh18C4F8Fk

and there is concept art for an unused brown girl

And theres something peculiar about this
Most characters in the game ARE programmed for battle, just like FFVI, even if they never even fight. When you hack them into the game, their Battle Formation sprite will be of Ramza instead of them though, However, if you hack Teta into the game, she mysteriously has the brown girl's sprite instead, implying this girl was actually decently far into development . This has nothing to do with anything but I still find it fascinating



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Love the extra tidbits Pun! Could that girl be an early design for Teta, maybe she was supposed to be in the party originally? Wonder how different the original vision was for the game. The Wiegraf scene is good background info but there's something about the shock of seeing him for the first time in ages that probably makes the original work better. Also man I am glad I didn't play that translation.

1. Boco
Wark wark wark wark wark, wark wark wark wark wark wark. Wark wark wark wark (wark wark wark!), wark wark wark wark wark. Wark wark wark, wark wark wark wark wark wark- wark wark wark wark, wark wark wark wark wark. Wark wark wark wark wark wark wark wark wark wark wark, wark wark wark wark wark wark wark wark. Wark wark wark, wark wark wark wark wark wark wark wark wark wark, wark wark wark wark wark. Wark wark wark? Wark wark wark wark wark wark.

"Wark wark wark"

Wark wark wark wark wark wark wark, wark wark wark. :( Wark wark wark; wark wark, wark wark, wark wark wark. Wark wark wark wark wark, wark wark wark wark.


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Is it weird that FFV is still the only FF with a chocobo thats an actual character?

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1. Delita Hyral
I don't know if anyone is even reading these write-ups but I've enjoyed writing them, they've helped me reflect on what I actually think of the game's various themes. The central ethos of the game is displayed in its entirety by Delita, the game simply would not work without him, and he's a wonderful case study for what the game is trying to say. I could see people argue him as a villain, misguided antagonist, anti-hero or straight up hero, but of course none of it is that simple. I'm sure someone could've written a thesis on this dude.

He's at his most straightforward in Chapter 1; a brash, kind commoner who is very empathetic to the plight of the suffering. He's not really respected by the nobles aside from Ramza- Balbanes likes him and got him into the knight academy but in talking about him he makes it clear Delita exists to serve Ramza. He viscerally feels the anger of the downtrodden, and without him I don't think Ramza would have turned from his family, at least not when he did. He is pretty hot-headed and lashes out at Ramza multiple times but still trusts him, I like that they aren't always friendly to each other.

It is after Teta's kidnapping and death and the whole Algus affair that it became clear he was going to be something special as a character. We don't really know his exact plan or leanings for a while after he shows up again, but it's clear he has a strong agenda and isn't some petty mercenary or out solely for revenge. He's two steps ahead of Ramza, but their interactions are always nice to watch. They never really lose their intimacy, and Delita opens up to him a little bit eventually, but generally keeps some distance- to keep himself focused on his plan or so he won't have to face Ramza's judgment? I don't know.

Much like Wiegraf, he is much more intelligent than those who seek to use him assume, and uses that to his advantage. He works his way up the ladder with some really cool tricks, betraying those around him without a bit of hesitation as he considers them to be awful oppressive people who deserve to be dealt with anyway, and never loses sight of his end goal.

It is interesting that Ovelia is the one he opens up to first, he clearly sees some of himself in her but despite her blood she was raised as a noble. I have refrained from quoting everybody in these write-ups because the dialogue in this game is so good all round, but his first scene with her in the church ruins is excellent. The last scene he shares with Ramza is also great, as well as opening up he shares part of his plan, presumably in an attempt to keep Ramza safe. He claims he would kill Ramza if he had to but honestly I don't know that he would, despite becoming colder as the game goes he keeps his soft spots for Ramza and Ovelia. Knowing that this is their final scene together now is pretty bittersweet. At least it's one positive relationship he has that doesn't turn to dust.

Delita the politician has early Wiegraf's ideals but Dycedarg's ends-justify-the-means approach to politics, and honestly it... works. He genuinely never falters from his idea of the greater good like so many of the others do, and the fact that he is aware of his using of people makes it so much more interesting. You can see him start to question what he is becoming, and he even challenges others to defy his logic, but nobody can. Maybe he is hoping somebody really does poke a hole in his ideas so he doesn't have to go down the road he does, or maybe he is just looking for reassurance.

I don't really have the eloquence to explain why I love Delita so much, part of it is his relationship with Ramza for sure and how the game doesn't get too cynical or naive- it's not saying that you need to become your enemy to get what you want, but neither is it explicitly judging him for getting his hands dirty. The primary thing Delita has over Ramza for me is an end to his arc. The epilogue scene, though abrupt, is really good. Delita faces external consequences for his actions and is forced to reckon with the man he's become, but it's not a didactic 'Look what a monster he is!' scene either. Delita's final musing about Ramza is perfect, it could be something that hangs over his head all day every day from then or it could be a passing thought before he returns to work. It is absolutely vital that the game lets Delita 'win' and rule peacefully, though without Ramza and Ovelia he has nobody to confide in so it can be assumed his days are lonely. I would love to see what happens next with him, but the best narratives leave you wanting more...

Ramza.... What did you get? I.........

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The fact that the last line of FFT is an unfinished and unspoken thought is perfect

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I enjoyed reading them!

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Yeah Delita is a great but ultimately tragic character.

He achieved his goals but lost himself and his few positive connections in the process.

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Thanks ArkofTurus! And yeah, this has to be a contender for best final line in a game, it just works so well. Especially after the last couple hours of the campaign were a bit of a step down.

If anyone wants to post their own rankings/favs you're more than welcome, I'd like to see how everybody else thinks! I gather that most people's favs are Delita or Ramza.

Also as we're reaching the end of the topic I'll ask- is Tactics Advance/TA2 worth getting at all? I know now that the stories are disconnected but would any of you recommend them or not?

My next FF playthrough is probably V- the GBA cart that turned out to be bootleg has still kept its save from a few weeks ago so I think that means it'll be fine? I might just get a VI bootleg too if that works >_> I'll be playing Ghost Trick before that though to leave a gap so no playthroughs for a bit.

I - II - III - IV - (TAY) - V - VI - VII - (VIIR - DoC - CC) - VIII - IX - X - (X-2) - XII - (RW) - XIII - (XIII-2 - LR) - XV - Tactics - TA - TA2 - (TCB)

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I enjoyed Tactics Advance 2 well enough as a mostly mindless SRPG, but it isn't something I'd particularly recommend.

The bootleg cart might be fine for a playthrough, but expect it to lose it's save data eventually.

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The Tactics Advance games......... wow. Id strongly recommend waiting like a couple years to play them, if at all. The games are.....OK.... taken completely as their own entities. But they are such a huge step down from Tactics, and are such blatantly obvious cash grab/in name only sequels where the creators either had no clue or gave zero fucks about what made the original great, that playing them immediately after the original would be like a jackhammer to the nuts.

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Great topic and write-ups andy. Also not a coincidence that your top 3 (Wiegraf, Ramza, Delita) are the 3 that have seen the most success in SMFFFC, though they are certainly the top 3. Well, Gaff also had a great run in his XXI debut year and Agrias has made a couple of runs too.

I was mulling adopting a "swimming in andy's wake" gaming strategy and doing my FF replays based on when you do yours, hahaha. But FFT jumping ahead in my queue is one thing; FFV, I still gotta hold out on that one...

Though I really don't remember V at all so that'll be a good playthrough topic to read through!

redrocket posted...

Is it weird that FFV is still the only FF with a chocobo thats an actual character?

Ff13

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Gotcha, I'll hold off on the Advance ones. I'm on the hook for tactical RPGs but if they'll be a letdown I'll definitely wait. A shame they never did any kind of proper sequel to this one, though that would probably be a letdown too and I don't know where you would even go with it.

Lol Martin, well my next 3 are gonna be V, VI and IX in some order or other if that helps! If the bootleg isn't safe I may yet go to IX next as it's the easiest to get the best version of. VI is harder to get than I expected, I could get the PS1 or Mobile versions but they're the worst ones apparently, I've been tempted to get a SNES classic but I've been bouncing either way on that. Getting a legit GBA cart is not so easy these days it turns out, for any game.

I was also looking at the list of Tactics chars who have gotten into SMFFFC:
Agrias Oaks
Algus Sadalfas
Alma Beoulve
Cidolfus Orlandeau
Delita Hyral
Goffard Gaffgarion
Larg Bestrada
Meliadoul Tingel
Mustadio Bunansa
Ramza Beoulve
Rapha Galthena
Teta Hyral
Wiegraf Folles

Notable omissions are Ovelia, Zalbag and Dycedarg. Maybe one of them could get a run, as Delita is unlikely to repeat I guess.

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I will never be able to believe that so many great FFT characters haven't been in while Larg and Teta have.

I know those were host picks, but still.

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I do not recommend FFTA at all. I think people have warmed up to them but i could not

I actually think you should seek out the Tactics Ogre games. They're made by the same two that made FFT. I haven't tried them myself but I hear they're just as political

I'm not 100% sure but I think @ninkendo has played them?

There's a few of them, i forget which ones are recommended or if they're connected

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Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together is basically FF Tactics with monsters v. humans instead of class warfare

The original for PSX was pretty good. I made it half way through the PSP remake and quit to play something else and never went back to it. I was having fun though.

Didn't play any other Ogre Battle games.

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Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre series are the best tactics series

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@ninkendo

could you elaborate on each of the games a bit

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I agree with the recommendation to wait a bit on the FFTA games. They will definitely feel like a let down coming right off of the original. I would say they're average games at best. FFTA's story is more of a low-stakes drama about kids dealing with everyday issues through fantasy escapism. It doesn't do a good job exploring that subject matter either. In both FFTA and Tactics Ogre there's more of an influence from character level, while in FFT combat performance comes mostly from equipment and class choices, which I think makes for a faster paced, more tactical game overall. FFTA games are just really easy while Tactics Ogre seems grindy to me. If you're even one or two levels below the enemy you'll have to plug away for ages to take them down while they'll kill your units in 1-2 hits.

Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre are both set in the same universe, and they share a director with FFT. Their stories definitely are a lot closer in tone and themes to FFT. Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together is the better of the two Tactics Ogre games. It kind of feels like a direct precursor to FFT, but the mechanics aren't as fun and it has a branching story with three different routes. You can kind of think of it as FFT except Ramza and Delita are the same character and which person he becomes depends on player choice. It's definitely more complex morally than most RPGs that use player choice. It was originally for Super Famicom but the PS1 port got localized to NA. There's also a PSP port, which I don't really like from what I've tried. It has a flowery PSP FFT type translation and it almost completely changes the gameplay. I'd go with the PS1 version if you do play it, and would definitely recommend it over either FFTA game, but I'm not a huge fan of it myself because of the flaws in the gameplay. There's also a GBA Tactics Ogre game called the Knight of Lodis. It's alright, basically just LUCT with a less interesting story.

Ogre Battle has a completely different style of gameplay. Your units are grouped into small squads that move together, the level is basically a world map with forts and other objectives on it and you choose which squads to send where. The combat is all auto-resolved when two squads meet kind of similar to Fire Emblem. There's an SNES game and an N64 game. I think the N64 one is generally considered better. It does not have Matsuno as the director though. I remember finding the gameplay fun but can't recall anything about the story of either game.

TLDR: FFTA and A2 are skippable, Tactics Ogre and Ogre Battle are worth playing but not nearly as good as FFT IMO

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Punnyz posted...

@ninkendo

could you elaborate on each of the games a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoOdo4oAJzo

literally brings tears to my eyes

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andylt posted...

Lol Martin, well my next 3 are gonna be V, VI and IX in some order or other if that helps! If the bootleg isn't safe I may yet go to IX next as it's the easiest to get the best version of. VI is harder to get than I expected, I could get the PS1 or Mobile versions but they're the worst ones apparently, I've been tempted to get a SNES classic but I've been bouncing either way on that. Getting a legit GBA cart is not so easy these days it turns out, for any game.

tbh I'm pretty sure I remember playing 5 after 6 and 6 is really an incredible game so it was a tough act to follow.

I'd recommend you go 9 - 5 - 6 but that's just me...save the "best" of those three for last

Also I wish they brought back the SNES Classic for sale again, I would buy it in a heartbeat even if I'd never play half the games on it.

I'd heard of Tactics Ogre's name but nothing else about it, had no idea it was directed by the same person as this. I'll look into that vid, though Exdeath saying it's the same vibe but grindier and worse might be enough to put me off it for a bit!

MartinFF7 posted...

Also I wish they brought back the SNES Classic for sale again, I would buy it in a heartbeat even if I'd never play half the games on it.

Same, there's only like 5 games on the SNES Classic that I really want to play for the first time but I still feel it'd be worth it. Though GBA is supposed to be the superior version of VI, and there's always the possibility some of them come on SNES Online on Switch, so then it wouldn't really be worth it... But at the rate Nintendo's going they'll just piecemeal them off for 3 month limited releases at 15 bucks each.

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I feel like 9 should be last

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I love Ogre Battle 64 but it is a very different game from your standard SRPGs

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I played Tactics A2, and I'm pretty sure I beat it, but I couldn't tell you a single thing about the story or characters or anything. It's entirely a blank in my memory. If it wasn't for SMFFFC I'm not sure I'd remember anything about Advance either.

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How did a game nobody likes get a full sequel but a game everybody loves got nothing?

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andylt posted...

How did a game nobody likes get a full sequel but a game everybody loves got nothing?

welcome to square enix

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Square Enix bought the Ogre Battle series specifically to kill it so FFT wouldn't have competition

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Well now they're both dead so nice job Square Enix!

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I want to say this has been incredibly enjoyable to follow. Topic of the year imo.

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Thank you redrocket! I was glad this brought some enjoyment to anyone other than myself! And thanks to everyone who followed and offered advice and trivia throughout, this would've been a much bumpier ride if I hadn't known about the separate save slots for instance.

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