Board 8 > Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters XXI: Final Results and Discussion

(+) Yeah! (+)

I agree with Martin, I want less chaos because that way we can all invest less of ourselves in this. Plus if we go pro-chaos then people like me will dominate it

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MartinFF7 posted...

honestly all the talk of making things MORE difficult and MORE painful for participants is really discouraging, but if you do 24 hours of rounds then people like me are going to win so, that's fine.

Very few of us do have the ability to show up at all hours of the day, so while having 2AM weekday rounds would increase the unpredictability of the contest, it wouldn't be as fun. (Especially for the people supporting a character solo, who face the dilemma of losing sleep vs. losing their character.)

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MartinFF7 posted...

Plus, set start times or start windows neuters the pre-ping "early crew" since everyone's on a level playing field.

Since... when? As I said in my first post about this, nearly every round was the same. The same 4 people were almost always in before anyone else so how was anyone "neutered" there? Yeah it might look level because everyone votes in the first 5 minutes but seconds matter in this contest and many, many times throughout this run the final hour lasts just a minute or so and the people that were there, always there, benefited.

If people really believe "chaotic" round times would benefit the same people and they'd "dominate", then what's the problem with trying it out? Those people already dominate this contest as it is.
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I really doubt that the people that want unpredictable rounds in the middle of the night are the majority...
Most people just didn't say they don't want this because it's pretty obvious we don't
The current times are fine. Would have been better for me if the late rounds (7-8 EST) were a bit earlier, of course

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it looks like the only option to please everyone is to cancel the contest forever

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Lightning retires as eternal stats leader, I'm sold

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The Mana Sword posted...

it looks like the only option to please everyone is to cancel the contest forever

it would end the curse and make us all free... to enjoy final fantasy.

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I mean you won't top this year's winner so might as well go out on a high note

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Mobilezoid posted...

I don't get how some of you guys can watch the topics and just not save, even when your favorites are in danger. The year where I missed most of the contest I had to make sure not to watch the board. Even the one time I did spot the topic I broke instantly when I saw Paine in the final two and saved her

Edit: referring to MWC watching from afar

This was a surprisingly easy year for it just because of how strong the end field was for my favorites. Literally the final was the first round out of all of them there could have been a result that would have bugged me. I had so many people I would be fine winning towards the end of this contest that it was easy to stay out till the end. I will say this, hindsight 20/20, wouod have saved Aeris for sure given how she left us. But most people can say that about how that went down Im sure.

it's the 3 contests law of smfffc hosting ultimate conclusion

3 hosts 3 contests, now cancelled

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I like how every year when this contest ends I want to do a series marathon so that next year I might save other characters (sometimes)
But then it never happens!

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I can't speak for everyone else v_charon, but I'm sitting at my computer with an autorefresher on one screen. You know how stupid I am about this. People like that are just going to be sitting at their computer an extra x hours a day if you expand the start window.

You're also wrong because there were very few rounds where it mattered who got in early, you see the same names at the end because they're the ones holding to try and snipe. The vast majority of rounds had final hours lasting more than 3 minutes, more than enough time for the discord ping to get through. Timing matters pre-FoG, it matters where H4's available, it matters in the last few days, and it matters for a few rounds in the midgame - more midgame rounds this year than usual because the activity was so ridiculous. But the names in the end are people holding for snipes, that's really just it.

I don't agree with Roba about chaos helping, I agree with 24 hours of rounds because there's consistency, and consistency and reliability is all I ever want. But I most agree with Roba about becoming less invested and forcing obsessive people to put more hours into being on alert doesn't sound fun. Though the other solution is obsessive people becoming less obsessive which I certainly want to be, I don't know if I can be though, we'll find out. But in the meantime, I think making things easier helps relax some of that need for obsession?

VeryInsane posted...

it would end the curse and make us all free

The only thing we ever wanted!

LiquidOshawott posted...

I will say that the biggest reason I pulled the trigger on Delitas megapush was because Aerith, my backup at the time, was lawyered.

so who knows

I will say this, Tifa or Barret were NEVER actually winning it this year, but if Aeris makes top 5, I probably push her over Squall, because while I love Squall, Aeris I felt needed to do it this year. So who knows how the butterfly effect changes there.

The Mana Sword posted...

Im not joking when I say to bring back 3am rounds

I will sign this every time someone brings it up.

Uh, we're over 3 pages down and I haven't posted any stats yet and I have so many, gotta start rolling here.

First, I wanted to thank everybody who submitted a top 15 list, now we get the payoff.

TOP 15 PREFERENCE RANKING STATS!
(n=46)

Best finals outcome: tied between Janus, FFDragon and VeryInsane (1 vs. 4)

Worst finals outcome: Nanis (13 vs. 15)

Widest variance: TheArkOfTurus (1 vs. 14)

Narrowest variance: Arti, GMUN, Inviso, Lopen and TotallyNotMI all had Delita and Squall next to each other in their rankings

(For comparisons to last year: best was 1 vs. 6 and worst was 12 vs. 15, so a little better and a little worse respectively this year. The widest variance had been 1 vs. 15, and the narrowest was only one user, Lopen; he had 4 other users joining him this year but once again was narrow (albeit a 3 vs. 4 this time instead of 5 vs. 6 last year!)

The average preference rating of finals participants, if you would believe it, was exactly 8.00. Keep in mind that the overall average in a 1 through 15 ranking is 8 so we hit the exact average (and an improvement over last year's finals average which was an 8.42, which I considered to be "a little below average" but really was uh, way below). Nicely done, everybody.

Janus - 2.5
FFDragon - 2.5
VeryInsane - 2.5
Lopen - 3.5
ecksgem - 4
Lea - 4
Maniac64 - 4.5
illuminatusbubu - 5
GMUN - 5.5
v_charon - 5.5
Eddv - 6
Martin - 6
andy - 6
Mewtwo - 7
Drakeryn - 7
mnkboy - 7
pjbasis - 7
Robazoid - 7
Steiner - 7.5
Mzero - 7.5
Moonroof - 7.5
swordz - 7.5
TheArkOfTurus - 7.5
Bane - 8
RaidenGarai - 8
Zigzagoon - 8
BetrayedTangy - 8.5
Inviso - 8.5
Luis_Sera89 - 9
captaincanadian - 9.5
yellowwolley - 9.5
Snake5555555555 - 10
guffguy89 - 10
Fbike - 10
Xuxon - 10.5
StifledSilence - 10.5
linkhatesganon - 10.5
PrinceKaro - 10.5
Denzokuken - 11
TotallyNotMI - 11.5
KommunistKoala - 11.5
Great_Paul - 11.5
Arti - 12.5
tennisboy213 - 12.5
VengefulKaelee - 12.5
Nanis - 14

How about some BONUS STATS!!! All 25 who participated last year participated again this year, so we can see some YOY stats. In addition to this & last year's average finals ratings, I've provided two sets of numbers: one, the percentage point change in your finals preference average since last year; and secondly, adding together your average from both years to see how people are doing cumulatively. The data is sorted on the last ("sum") column ascending; blue indicates a best score, green a worst score.



So we can see Steiner had a marked improvement over his disastrous finals last year but the real YOY winner was VeryInsane, with his average jumping 9 points to 2.5. MZero is the biggest YOY drop, albeit only 4 percentage points, which makes sense considering he tied for the best average last year. In fact, of the 25 who participated last year, only 8 had a lower average this year than last, and 3 of those 8 were the winners from last year. So, gotta say it was a good year.

I should also point out yours truly, Martin"True Neutral"FF7, who stayed pat with a 6 rating last year (1 vs. 11) and a 6 rating this year (4 vs. 8). Can't really complain I guess!

The big winner appears to be the wonderful Lea who, somehow, has lucked into preferred finals each of the past two years, with a 1 vs. 6 and a 2 vs. 6. Watch out for whoever her #6 most preferred is at the top 15 next year, I guess!

And conversely, the combined worst over the past two years was VengefulKaelee; she didn't have the "least preferred" final in either year but collectively, the score of 23.5 (when the maximum possible worst two-year score is 29) is just... really rough. Of the 4 finalists in the last 2 years, not one of them was ranked outside the double digits. Maybe next year's the year!!

Thanks again to everybody who participated, I got even more stats coming including COMPATIBILITY STATS but those are gonna take a huge honkin' amount of space so will hold those for later.

If you're that devoted you'd have an even greater advantage with variant start times. Meanwhile people who think it's stale they get more varied results.

It's win-win

Only reason I would not fight harder for all over the place start times is cause it's tougher for the host. But if the host is willing then it's more fun

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Being super early doesn't matter in most rounds. But like me, wandering in 20-30 minutes late, that cost me an extra vote a lot of the time.

That's fine for me; I'm just a casual. It sucks though for people who might be working non-desk-jobs or have other obligations keeping them from F5ing during typical start times.
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MartinFF7 posted...

Widest variance: TheArkOfTurus (1 vs. 14)

damn so close, should have switched Red XIII and Squall


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Leonhart4 posted...

I mean you won't top this year's winner so might as well go out on a high note

Come back friend, please.

I appreciate all the time you put into stat stuff, Martin.

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Low variance champion here.

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Lopen posted...

If you're that devoted you'd have an even greater advantage with variant start times. Meanwhile people who think it's stale they get more varied results.

It's win-win

Only reason I would not fight harder for all over the place start times is cause it's tougher for the host. But if the host is willing then it's more fun

Yup. I was calling in or going late to work the late rounds of years I really cared. I want team Chaos because 1: it would be fun as hell, 2, I do go very obsessive on things, unless youever ever set alarms for WWE Supercard or Record Keeper stamina every couple hours so never waste, you dont k is what true pain of caring is.

Quitbanningme posted...

unless youever ever set alarms for WWE Supercard

My secret shame bullseyed

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MartinFF7 posted...

Worst finals outcome: Nanis (13 vs. 15)

:(
I take solace in Garnet being #3 so I don't really feel bad
I am just a little disappointed we were two spots away from the perfect finals I wanted (Garnet/Tifa)
So close

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Leanansidhe posted...

That's a really cool stat, Martin! In a way, I think we can say that I am the true winner of these contests

You do have a habit of falling ass-backwards into fortunate finals outcomes, it seems...

Get Jessie into the top 15 next year and rank her #6!!

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

damn so close, should have switched Red XIII and Squall

See, that's what you get for ranking with your heart (Red XIII in 1st) instead of... uh... your true heart (like you posted the other day, Squall was always your true #1!)

Though I did notice when you said your opinion of Delita changed since the initial ranking, and there was a missed opportunity on my end to solicit updated top 15 rankings from people, but I just didn't have the time, or really the desire after Day 97 (and 98 led right into the finals). Who knows, maybe next year.

Drakeryn posted...

It sucks though for people who might be working non-desk-jobs

I'm actually one of those people. I just happened to get obscenely lucky with start times. (Edea/Agnes could have been taken out at basically any point after FoG if I was at work during a round!)

For those of you who don't know, I usually work early mornings. I was working into the afternoon (3 PM-ish) 2-3 times a week for most of the contest due to COVID nonsense, but no round ever started during those times, and on the days I was working longest the round was canceled!

This was a very good contest for me up until Garnet went out at final 3, with my only real loss in boots being Steiner (though I was never going to get him out of hardboots with my other obligations) and Agnes/Beatrix/Cecil/Edea/Garnet all going farther than expected. (The only one of my top 6 that underperformed was Zidane, but I wasn't really on him this year and he reached my STATS goal for him so it doesn't really hurt as much.)

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Nanis23 posted...

:(
I take solace in Garnet being #3 so I don't really feel bad
I am just a little disappointed we were two spots away from the perfect finals I wanted (Garnet/Tifa)
So close

You reminded me of another stat opportunity:

average character rankings:

Aerith - 5.65
Kefka - 6.09
Tifa - 6.39
Barret - 7.02
Squall - 7.09
Yuffie - 7.54
Red XIII - 7.76
Garnet - 7.93
Celes - 7.96
Tidus - 8.11
Cecil - 8.52
Seymour - 8.59
Delita - 8.91
Emet - 11.09
Edea - 11.35

I was genuinely surprised to see Aerith in 1st place, since Kefka was a far-and-away 1st place in last year's rankings. Tifa in 3rd was also nice to see. Delita being that low was surprising but I guess he suffered a bit like Emet, of people who just haven't played his game (but Tactics is really great and everyone should play it).

Going one step further: if we exclusively look at everyone's #1 ranks and everyone's #15 (keeping in mind n=46)

NUMBER ONE PREFERRED RANKING
Seymour: 5
Tifa: 5
Tidus: 5
Aerith: 4
Kefka: 4
Garnet: 4
Barret: 3
Delita: 3
Red XIII: 3
Emet: 2
Yuffie: 2
Squall: 2
Celes: 2
Cecil: 1
Edea: 1

All 15 characters show up on at least one person's list. Seymour and Tifa crews coming out strong; victorious Squall #1 shared by Janus and pjbasis.

NUMBER FIFTEEN PREFERRED RANKING
Edea: 16
Tidus: 5
Seymour: 4
Emet: 4
Yuffie: 3
Celes: 3
Kefka: 3
Squall: 2
Delita: 2
Cecil: 2
Tifa: 1
Garnet: 1
Aerith: 0
Barret: 0
Red XIII: 0

-Tidus and Seymour, tying for most #1s, end up 2nd and 3rd on the most #15s lists
-No surprise who's tops of this list
-***ALERT, ALERT*** GuessMyUserName IS THE USER WITH TIFA RANKED #15, PLEASE MAKE A NOTE OF TERRIBLE OPINIONS FOR FUTURE REFERENCE ***ALERT, ALERT***
-Aerith, Barret and Red XIII have the privilege of no #15 rankings

So if we come up with my completely arbitrary "net absolute preference score", the sum of #1 placements minus the sum of #15 placements:

Aerith: 4
Tifa: 4
Barret: 3
Garnet: 3
Red XIII: 3
Delita: 1
Kefka: 1
Seymour: 1
Squall: 0
Tidus: 0
Cecil: -1
Celes: -1
Yuffie: -1
Emet: -2
Edea: -15

Aerith and Tifa tied as top #1 minus #15 ranked characters. You love to see it.

MartinFF7 posted...

NUMBER FIFTEEN PREFERRED RANKING
Edea: 16

I find it very surprising how far a character can be pushed by just 2-3 main supporters
Not saying it's a bad thing..just..surprising

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I think it's kinda nice, like Leblanc got 17th with three people and one of them was against trading for religious reasons (at least until they moved to other characters and suddenly trading was fine, I saw what you did Lea!)

Now that my #1 has won I hope every year I can team with someone for some sort of fun project

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Nanis23 posted...

I find it very surprising how far a character can be pushed by just 2-3 main supporters
Not saying it's a bad thing..just..surprising

2 is a easy top twenty

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Mobilezoid posted...

I think it's kinda nice, like Leblanc got 17th with three people and one of them was against trading for religious reasons (at least until they moved to other characters and suddenly trading was fine, I saw what you did Lea!)

Now that my #1 has won I hope every year I can team with someone for some sort of fun project

Might I suggest Ramza?

or Remake Boost Seph?

Remake Boost Seph was this year

and it... didn't quite go so well. >_>

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I think I've gone full years without trading... I think I remember it frustrating Xuxon

when you break you break tho

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VeryInsane posted...

Remake Boost Seph was this year

and it... didn't quite go so well. >_>

Remake boost Seph is gonna be part 2 and after.

Even though he was in this game more than he was normal Midgar, we really didnt see him as a personality yet.

1. No and yes
2. Current official
3. For me personally, this years contest was a disaster. FF7R boost failed. This is the worst final Ive seen so far. Aeris got screwed by a cheap lawyering. Garbage/10

That said, a lot of you have been trying to get mister whatever a win for a long time. So congrats on achieving that.
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StifledSilence posted...

FF7R boost failed.

:|
Because having 6 characters in the top 20 is a failure (or 7 in the top 22)

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Nanis23 posted...

I find it very surprising how far a character can be pushed by just 2-3 main supporters
Not saying it's a bad thing..just..surprising

Raytan pushed several characters to heights never seen since with the help of a "sibling" so it's not surprising at all

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Nanis23 posted...

:|
Because having 6 characters in the top 20 is a failure (or 7 in the top 22)

None of them won. I wasnt playing for stats. Just a win.
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VIII's second win and T's first finals appearance makes up for no remake showing

but idk, the cast is so diverse that it's hard for there to be a unified favorite other than Cloud and that already happened.

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good round. the villain has been defeated, and Squall finally gets his victory like, 8 years late. hoping Kefka, Tifa, Seph or Ramza can win next time.

1. no, yes
2. all i really care about is Ultros remaining as is, and being able to type Aeris, Orlandu, etc and have it count

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there were definitely multiple people that said they preferred tifa in that final 5 or 6 and werent saving her

but what can ya do, thats the game contrary to what the name suggests

and of course aeris possibly just wins outright if she isnt lawyered

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VeryInsane posted...

VIII's second win and T's first finals appearance makes up for no remake showing

but idk, the cast is so diverse that it's hard for there to be a unified favorite other than Cloud and that already happened.

Still makes me tear up

Xuxon posted...

good round. the villain has been defeated, and Squall finally gets his victory like, 8 years late. hoping Kefka, Tifa, Seph or Ramza can win next time.

1. no, yes
2. all i really care about is Ultros remaining as is, and being able to type Aeris, Orlandu, etc and have it count

Care to pick one and join me?

The dream is still cross-platform Remake boosting the performance.

Nanis23 posted...

:|
Because having 6 characters in the top 20 is a failure (or 7 in the top 22)

Again, everyone is completely disconnected. FF7 can always dominate stats because you have 2 or more people on each character, completely siloed. You can look at any character elimination and see how the backers didn't stay "within the series", there's very few users like that. The best opportunity for consolidation was Aerith, because you could see that literally every one of her backers went to a non-7 character.

So....... Justice for Aerith?

VeryInsane posted...

Remake Boost Seph was this year

and it... didn't quite go so well. >_>

I still say & believe that Sephiroth was a remake deboost.

I feel obligated to main him next year but I'm not feeling too enthused about it. I'll replay Crisis Core beforehand, I guess.

I just can't see an FF7 character winning and I don't know how it happened in XIX, MWC you have to explain how you guys pulled that off, considering best 7 placements the past 3 years: 4th, 6th, 4th... definitely can't see Sephiroth winning, though he did get 3rd in recent history? I guess anything's possible.

Anyways, this reminds me of something else I wanted to post about in the results topic: what I posted in last year's results topic, when we were talking about our hopes or dreams for next year.



The Squall run worked out, Seifer was a non-entity (probably for the best), we got the deep Garnet run I was hoping for, top 5 Seymour... lots of nice stories this year. Kefka ran into an unfortunate end... Tifa backed up her look with really astounding character development & battle prowess beyond what I ever expected, and was close but no cigar.

And yeah, Sephiroth, fuck. Every year I've been here it's been one misfortune after another with him. Maybe next year.

Anyone want to make any hot takes for next year so they can claim credit?
Now that Squall got a win, can people really coalesce behind Kefka?
Are we really going to get a Selphie redemption run?
Will YRP actually be a force?
Are we ready for "Yes, rich Ramza"?

It's a little weird to see my preference rank so high, considering that Delita was the only character I liked in the top nine. (rip Emet/Yuffie/Tidus/Red) But I guess getting Delita's rank exactly right helped.

VeryInsane posted...

but idk, the cast is so diverse that it's hard for there to be a unified favorite other than Cloud and that already happened.

Has there ever been a big Sephiroth push? He seems iconic and easy to unite around but I feel like he always does badly.
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MartinFF7 posted...

Seifer was a non-entity (probably for the best)

>:|
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