Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic Part 498 - In Your House

(+) Yeah! (+)

Someone is going to have to explain to me why AEW put out a much harsher statement for Sammy than they did for Jimmy Havoc.

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Because they're firing Havoc at the end of this and they're not firing Sammy.

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The speculation is that the Jimmy Statement is a legal necessity en route to firing him whereas with Sammy that should be basically the end of it.

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But Jimmy literally is accused of committing rape and abuse.

Why do you "wish him the best" in any form?

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Maybe they didn't want to sound callous talking about a guy going to rehab and didn't take into account it would be a bad way to phrase that with everything going on. And they legally can't fire anyone in rehab.

Presumably, they probably learned from people saying they didn't take a harsh enough stance on Jimmy Havoc and corrected that accordingly.

Edit: Additionally, they may not have wanted to make a statement about firing someone while they were in rehab and open them up for a lawsuit wherein Havoc could potentially use it as evidence that they wanted to fire him in part because he went to rehab.

Like, they needed to make a statement but given all of the complications behind that rule, they probably had a hard time thinking of how to best phrase it.

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You probably cant legally act like youre gonna fire someone as soon as they are done with rehab, even if you are
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Jakyl said it more concisely, yeah.

They had to make a statement but they didn't want their statement to open themselves up to a lawsuit from Havoc.

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I don't care about the firing aspect.

I'm annoyed at the whole "hope you get better, buddy!" tone of it.

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Also how bad are you with words that when you want to say "man I really want to sleep with this girl" your best descriptor was "I wanna straight rape that woman."

Like come the fuck on.

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Gallagher didnt even get the future endeavors line
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TheRock1525 posted...

Also how bad are you with words that when you want to say "man I really want to sleep with this girl" your best descriptor was "I wanna straight rape that woman."

Like come the fuck on.

And then no one else on the podcast is like did you MEAN to say that? Wanna try that one again?
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TheRock1525 posted...

I don't care about the firing aspect.

I'm annoyed at the whole "hope you get better, buddy!" tone of it.

I mean. We just explained it to you. They need to sound supportive of him while he's in rehab so there's no doubt that they weren't firing him in part because he's in rehab.

TheRock1525 posted...

Also how bad are you with words that when you want to say "man I really want to sleep with this girl" your best descriptor was "I wanna straight rape that woman."

Like come the fuck on.

A guy making an awful joke that probably didn't know any better given the nature of the business, which we all have all realized over the past week is a heap of degeneracy.

What's important is he's owned up to it, understood what was wrong with it, took the extra effort to talk it out with who he wronged, and is taking the step to be better.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

A guy making an awful joke that probably didn't know any better given the nature of the business

Oh come on now

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

They need to sound supportive of him

No they don't. They absolutely 100% do not. They could have wrote "AEW takes these accusations seriously and will assess Jimmy Havoc's position with the company upon successful completion of rehab."

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A 22-year-old in this industry, after what we've learned about said industry in the last week? I don't find it hard to believe that this sort of language wasn't getting pushback in his circles.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Oh come on now

"Saying you want to rape someone is bad? I never knew!"

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TheRock1525 posted...

"Saying you want to rape someone is bad? I never knew!"

Have you ever seen early PewDiePie? <_<
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Jakyl25 posted...

Have you ever seen early PewDiePie? <_<

Within the context of early PDP, he used to scream "they're raping me!" in a negative light.

So like even if you were an idiot who only knew rape through fucking PDP, he sure as hell wasn't saying it in a way that meant "having sex with a woman I like."

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scarletspeed7 posted...

A 22-year-old in this industry, after what we've learned about said industry in the last week? I don't find it hard to believe that this sort of language wasn't getting pushback in his circles.

That's not a case of "not knowing better." That's a case of just knowing you can get away with it.

It's like when you're a teenager and you speak differently around your friends than you would your mother. You don't swear around your mother because you know it's not a good thing to do, but you swear around your friends because nobody cares.

Saying one "doesn't know any better" is taking away accountability a little bit when it shouldn't be.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Oh come on now

What's there to "oh come on now" about this? We have stories of people who have done horrible acts of sexual abuse who obviously didn't think it was wrong.

I think it's fucking sad that there's an environment like this where people don't realize joking about rape is bad, but that's what it is. Take a look at everything that's come out in the last week and tell me that everyone in this industry should realize joking about this is wrong, especially four years ago.

It's not a defense, it's a statement on how shitty the wrestling community has been.

TheRock1525 posted...

No they don't. They absolutely 100% do not. They could have wrote "AEW takes these accusations seriously and will assess Jimmy Havoc's position with the company upon successful completion of rehab."

You don't understand how lawsuits work. Jimmy Havoc can 100% argue that him being fired was partly because of him going to rehab with that statement.

But if they say they're supportive, there's no argument to be made and no pending lawsuit.

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Rock I see your point but I have no answer for you if its not just legal necessity. Havoc isnt one of the boys with political clout there. Excalibur has to choke him out in a bar because hes such an asshole. Theres no other logical reason they would protect him.
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Also he's 22, not 12. You wanna say that shit in private to your friends when you're a teenager, it's still gross but understandable.

In your 20's, if you're willing to talk like that while people record you, you're incredibly stupid AT BEST.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

What's there to "oh come on now" about this? We have stories of people who have done horrible acts of sexual abuse who obviously didn't think it was wrong.

I think it's fucking sad that there's an environment like this where people don't realize joking about rape is bad, but that's what it is. Take a look at everything that's come out in the last week and tell me that everyone in this industry should realize joking about this is wrong, especially four years ago.

It's not a defense, it's a statement on how shitty the wrestling community has been.

Well, for one, I think the people going "I didn't think it was wrong!" about horrible acts of sexual abuse are making excuses and trying to cover their own asses, so no, I don't really believe this was some culture where everybody stopped growing at 12 years old and literally didn't know what they were doing is bad.

The problem isn't that nobody knew what they were doing was wrong. The problem is that nobody gave a shit that what they were doing was wrong. And that is a very important difference.

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It was clearly acceptable for him to say this in the wrestling world. The man interviewing him had no issue with him saying it. He didn't think saying it was wrong in the environment he was in, in an industry with literal sexual abusers.

It's no different than a gang. In their environment, they don't see anything wrong with the things they do. Take it out if the environment they're in, and then it's a problem.

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HashtagSEP posted...

That's not a case of "not knowing better." That's a case of just knowing you can get away with it.

It's like when you're a teenager and you speak differently around your friends than you would your mother. You don't swear around your mother because you know it's not a good thing to do, but you swear around your friends because nobody cares.

Saying one "doesn't know any better" is taking away accountability a little bit when it shouldn't be.

You can be inured by a culture of a business or industry, and it can warp your perceptions of acceptable behavior. It doesn't absolve Sammy of blame, but it contextualizes it. The jump from high school straight into the independent wrestling scene, I think, shows that there is an environment where the veterans aren't teaching younger people a proper way to behave, but likely endorsing it. Again, none of this says Sammy isn't free from guilt in what he said, but unless something further surfaces about him, I think this is sign that sweeping changes need to start at every level of the wrestling industry.

When I worked in a warehouse the summer after high school graduation before I started college, I saw a culture of male workers that spent time breaking down and discussing the women who worked at our facility and how attractive they were. It never went to the extent that rape came up, but it was very uncomfortable. I found it really difficult to participate, but I had a friend from high school who sort-of just sucked it up and started joining those conversations. He ingratiated himself with those people, and he found cushier work duties on his docket. I was more of an outsider, and I was constantly stuck in the non-air conditioned areas. Because he participated and socialized, did he learn that bad behavior was acceptable? Language like Sammy used can be ingrained into you.

Nothing about it that doesn't suck. Nothing about it that makes Sammy any better. But it's pretty important to not lose the thread that people were sexually assaulted on a large scale in this industry, and if you're going through your early adult years, and even some of your youth, in that environment? It's going to be harder for you to not be sucked into a little bit of that culture.

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Scarlet explained what I was trying to explain a lot better.

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For Rock

https://twitter.com/drillamoloney/status/1274942337324593155?s=21

Good Guy Drew Mac
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All Politics Wrestling Topic Part 498 - In Your House

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Jakyl25 posted...

For Rock

https://twitter.com/drillamoloney/status/1274942337324593155?s=21

Good Guy DREW MAC

Fixed for you.


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Lopen posted...

All Politics Wrestling Topic Part 498 - In Drew's Bunk

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Joey Ryan and Dave Crist have been fired from TNA. Michael Elgin has been suspended.

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In lighter news, apparently Vince banned the usage of any referee's name. He was backstage listening to commentary and said "Who the hell is that?" when they were mentioning the referee's name. Someone told him it was the ref and Vince went "God damnit, I'm tired of hearing the ref's name." And then he banned saying referee names.

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Yep. That's Vince McMahon for you. For a guy whose program endless slathers shit branding in your face, he has a massive distaste for real names, fake names, two or three word names, or anything that doesn't just feel like it "exists" in this plane of existence.

WWE in a nutshell. It's kind of a marvel some of the performers (Edge and Orton for example) can overcome some of this fucking nonsense on a weekly basis.

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Pretty weird in the face of AEW working to get their two main refs (Remsberg and Aubrey) over.

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After last night...

Extreme Rules
McIntyre vs Ziggler for the WWE title
Asuka vs Sasha for the Raw Women's title

Guesses on what else makes the card...
Braun vs Bray in some non title bs to prepare us for Summerslam
Cesaro/Nakamura vs New Day for SD Tag Titles
Styles vs Riddle for IC title (pending allegations)

Rollins vs Rey, Nia vs Charlotte, and Edge vs Orton III feel more like Summerslam matches

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I liked that Sasha promo. The swerve got me >_>

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Wait a sec why can Sasha even challenge for the Raw Women's title? Shes technically on Smackdown.

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ffmasterjose posted...

Wait a sec why can Sasha even challenge for the Raw Women's title? Shes technically on Smackdown.

Because WWE doesnt care about logic
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Other brand superstars have challenged for titles before. I can say Sasha is kinda getting away with a loophole because "LOL INTERBRAND CHAMPION BOTH SHOWS," but weren't Bray and Randy fighting for titles despite being seperated in the draft?

I know someone did. Maybe someone last year too.

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For anyone who somehow still watches WWE (and shame on you if you do) and is tired of Charlotte Flair, she's out for surgery and "personal time off".

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So what you're saying is she won't be in a title match feud on TV for more than the span of a month?

wow.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

For anyone who somehow still watches WWE (and shame on you if you do)

after this past week it's like, man, even i can't get worked up to say this any more. indie wrestling is more corrupt than the wwe. everything sucks man

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I don't know that indy wrestling is more corrupt, but it has some seriously nasty shit in it. I feel you though.

To add to the shit, Austin Theory creeps on 13 year old girls apparently.

https://twitter.com/taytumangell/status/1275143584614961162

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wwe isn't literally a pedophile ring

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Steiner posted...

wwe isn't literally a pedophile ring

*insert macho man/steph rumor here*

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*insert mel philips, pat patterson and terry garvin*

but i meant recently

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Velveteen Dream?

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yeah i'm gonna struggle to call that a ring - let's see if he gets dealt with, but bear in mind these things take time

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That's fair. But they seemed to do nothing with the first allegations he received, and even more damning evidence came out from the second accuser.

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Sammy Guevara's video apology

https://youtu.be/3aDopYWwfH0

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