Current Events > Today I learned I have aphantasia and people really can visualize things

(+) Yeah! (+)

Reading about it is pretty cool though, such a wide spectrum of experiences. When someone says "close your eyes and think of a square" i don't see shit, never have. I thought it was just a figure of speech kinda thing my whole life lmao.

I think the most interesting thing is how it effects peoples dreams, i dont seem to have any issue with that in fact i used to be plagued by visual realistic nightmares a bit as a kid. i'd have nightmares and dreams that continued for weeks just where I left off before waking up.

being able to voluntarily visually see things sounds cool and overwhelming at the same time though. low key kinda jealous now

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Thats wild. Im super curious about how that would affect your ability to recall memories.

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Almost as crazy as the people who don't have internal monologues.

use it for lewdness

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I cannot voluntarily visualize anything, but sometimes I do get brief involuntary images of things. I also dream just fine.

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That would make you and I the two out of a hundred then, TC. I also see nothing. If I close my eyes and try to imagine something it's just blackness while words go through my head. Unlike you, though, waking up and remembering a dream is incredibly rare for me. Like, maybe a handful of times a year. The rest of the time my eyes just close and then they open again and there is nothing in between.

Random ? but is it hard or easy for you to do this?


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It's easy for me, doesn't trip me up at all.

Tenlaar posted...

That would make you and I the two out of a hundred then, TC. I also see nothing. If I close my eyes and try to imagine something it's just blackness while words go through my head. Unlike you, though, waking up and remembering a dream is incredibly rare for me. Like, maybe a handful of times a year. The rest of the time my eyes just close and then they open again and there is nothing in between.

this is me.

I've read that some hallucinogenics have improved this for people. I'd love to try in a safe and clinical setting, but such things don't really exist.

Pus_N_Pecans posted... Thats wild. Im super curious about how that would affect your ability to recall memories.

I have basically zero recall. anything routine disappears after a few minutes. Unusual memories may persist for a few days. Only incredibly emotional things have a chance to stick, and it's usually the negatives.

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Thats wild. Im super curious about how that would affect your ability to recall memories.

yea im curious about that in the other way now that you mention it. when people recall life memories do they actually see things? i just..know what happened? my memory is kinda shit too honestly, especially my sense of time

honestly im kinda of confused about internal monologue to, i think I might have one but maybe its lacking. reading about it kind of confused me but I kind of get it?

also that image tripped me up a lot

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Medussa posted...

this is me.

I've read that some hallucinogenics have improved this for people. I'd love to try in a safe and clinical setting, but such things don't really exist.

You know, I've tried acid and shrooms twice each and none of the times has it worked. I wasn't doing it alone and it worked for others and I even took bigger doses the second time assuming that it was just because I'm a large man. Now I'm wondering if there is some connection there and the aphantasia could be involved somehow.

Tenlaar posted...

You know, I've tried acid and shrooms twice each and none of the times has it worked. I wasn't doing it alone and it worked for others and I even took bigger doses the second time assuming that it was just because I'm a large man. Now I'm wondering if there is some connection there and the aphantasia could be involved somehow.

I didn't want to mention any by name, because gamefaqs is super strict about drug talk, but yeah, it was LSD that I read about.

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Vaati_Reborn posted...

yea im curious about that in the other way now that you mention it. when people recall life memories do they actually see things? i just..know what happened? my memory is kinda shit too honestly, especially my sense of time

honestly im kinda of confused about internal monologue to, i think I might have one but maybe its lacking. reading about it kind of confused me but I kind of get it?

also that image tripped me up a lot

Definitely! Im a writer/animator in my spare time and I use that visualization extensively whenever I do either of them. I wouldnt say that I can remember like full events playing out, but certain images or phrases will definitely stick out in my mind for years sometimes.

Internal monologue is more like you can hear the sound of your voice in your head as you think through things.

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How does that affect your reading? Seems like something like this would greatly hinder enjoyment in literature.

I've always wondered why some people just can't seem to enjoy books, and given how common this is, I'm wondering if there's any correlation.
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Vaati_Reborn posted...

i just..know what happened? my memory is kinda shit too honestly, especially my sense of time

"I just know what happened" describes how I feel about my memory too. When I remember something it's not like I can visualize the events playing out, it's more like I recite what happened in my head like I'm reading a scene description in a book. And while I have a good memory for some things and I will remember details that surprise people sometimes, in general I wouldn't say it's great and judging the passage of time is something that I'm particularly bad at.

also that image tripped me up a lot

Interesting, I can go through saying the colors with almost no hesitation and not trip up. Hm. I imagine that aphantasia would have to affect nearly every part of the cognitive process in some way, lots of chances for variations from person to person.

dolomedes posted...

i can't see it but i have a visual memory so i can imagine it. i mean, is that the same thing? i remember certain visual aspects and my brain fills in the rest.

i guess? I just know things happened thats the only way I can explain it

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Think Im gonna track this topic. This is all really interesting to me.

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Damn, that sounds like hell. My visualization is so good that I can pleasure myself through imagination alone lol

I've never had crystal images, like watching a film or just looking about but I can imagine things and for ages I thought I was lacking a minds eye entirely.

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Rhylos posted...

Almost as crazy as the people who don't have internal monologues.

This fucks me up. I found out a few weeks ago people like this exist and I don't know how they function.
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I don't understand the whole internal monologue thing

If you are constantly thinking with your talking voice then you must be........dumb. like, that's so slow. You can only speak so fast

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How interesting.

tri sapphire posted...

How does that affect your reading? Seems like something like this would greatly hinder enjoyment in literature.

I've always wondered why some people just can't seem to enjoy books, and given how common this is, I'm wondering if there's any correlation.

I was an avid reader when I was younger. I was the kid in class that other kids got annoyed at because I was always reading some fantasy book and not paying attention or participating in class but then I'd crush the test and skate by with a low C or D for the year. Throughout my 20's and into my 30's I have stopped reading nearly as much and started spending more of my free time playing video games. I generally attributed that to the improved quality of video games over the years, but it's definitely possible that I moved on to focus more on visual mediums without realizing that it was because of my lack of internal visualization.

And something that is just now dawning on me. I have always wanted to be able to draw, admired it as a talent and was jealous of people who could. In the last few years I finally decided to try to learn how to for real and discovered that I definitely do have natural ability, but it's felt like there was some kind of barrier keeping me from really feeling like I'm really capable of doing it. As crazy as it sounds, it never really occurred to me until now that it's because I am incapable of the step of picturing something in my mind before I put it on paper, it's more like I'm always trying to draw something that somebody is reading a description of.

Similarly I recently learned that there are people who don't have an inner monologue. Like when they think about something or read text, they don't have a voice in their head.

https://www.dazeddigital.com/science-tech/article/44494/1/living-without-inner-speech-voice-inside-head-psychology-science

I thought internal monologues were just a normal thing but apparently they aren't! Fascinating stuff.

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Doe posted...

I don't understand the whole internal monologue thing

If you are constantly thinking with your talking voice then you must be........dumb. like, that's so slow. You can only speak so fast

You can think without it too, but like as I type this, my internal monologue to dictating it to me.

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So does this mean youve never had this?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheTetrisEffect

tri sapphire posted...

How does that affect your reading? Seems like something like this would greatly hinder enjoyment in literature.

this. when i read fiction i can see the scene playing out in my head, like a movie. i can hear the character's voices in my head.

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Hmm, I might have to look into this. If I try to imagine something, even right after looking at the object, I mostly just get the outlines and no details.

Im terrible with faces too. Can barely picture the face of people Ive known forever, and remembering new peoples faces? Ive been at my new job for a month now and still dont know who some of these people I see every day are. There are actually a couple people there who used to work at my old building, and they were like dont you remember me? And Im just like :|

the weirdest part is its a lot easier to remember visual stuff from when I was a kid, but I tend to only remember the bad things in detail. Maybe its some sort of coping mechanism that developed to avoid that continuing?

some people not having the internal monologue thing is surprising too. Mine even does accents, back when I watched True Blood all my thoughts had a Louisiana accent for like a whole day after watching a few episodes

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tri sapphire posted...

How does that affect your reading? Seems like something like this would greatly hinder enjoyment in literature.

I've always wondered why some people just can't seem to enjoy books, and given how common this is, I'm wondering if there's any correlation.

It does, since the main thing with reading is to use your imagination to craft the world using the words on the page. For me, I will just read the words and I understand what they mean.. and that's about it. I used to love reading as a child. This actually came on for me later in life, but I don't know why because I didn't have a traumatic brain injury or something. I did have depression/anxiety for a long time, but that's about it. I also don't dream and don't have an internal monologue really.

Overall having this doesn't affect my life or ability to function as much as you might think. I think for me personally, the worst thing is forgetting faces/being slow to recognize people you know. Like if someone were to approach me in public, it takes a while to click who I'm even talking to (and sometimes it never clicks) and by then it's usually awkward lol. It makes me sad, like even my family, I can't bring up pictures of them in my mind when we've been apart for a while. I can't remember people who have passed like my grandpa who I loved.

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Tenlaar posted...

And something that is just now dawning on me. I have always wanted to be able to draw, admired it as a talent and was jealous of people who could. In the last few years I finally decided to try to learn how to for real and discovered that I definitely do have natural ability, but it's felt like there was some kind of barrier keeping me from really feeling like I'm really capable of doing it. As crazy as it sounds, it never really occurred to me until now that it's because I am incapable of the step of picturing something in my mind before I put it on paper, it's more like I'm always trying to draw something that somebody is reading a description of.

This sounds like me except without the natural aptitude. I love art so much but my attempts and progress looks like that of a low-function artificial intelligence

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CapnMuffin posted...

Random ? but is it hard or easy for you to do this?

I can visualize just fine, I think, but this was difficult for me. I cheated for a second try, and put my eye out of focus so that it was too blurry to see the actual letters, and that went a lot faster.

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

You can think without it too, but like as I type this, my internal monologue to dictating it to me.

Hmm, but it makes sense to have a vocal connection when you're writing words out. That's not the same as 'internally talking through' all your decisions

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I love reading and always have, but yeah, I don't and can't imagine what the characters look like or watch them do things. it's literally just reading words off a page.

I also have absolutely zero aesthetic creative artistic ability. I can make things geometrically, but freeform drawing is completely out of my ability. I can barely model (gaming figures, mostly), but only so far as I can follow someone else's directions.

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I always thought this condition was fascinating. I can't even imagine what it's like not being able to call upon images within your head.

This is unrelated, but it also reminds me of the condition where people can't recognize different faces. The mind is extremely interesting.

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Medussa posted...

I love reading and always have, but yeah, I don't and can't imagine what the characters look like or watch them do things. it's literally just reading words off a page.

I also have absolutely zero aesthetic creative artistic ability. I can make things geometrically, but freeform drawing is completely out of my ability. I can barely model (gaming figures, mostly), but only so far as I can follow someone else's directions.

really? dang, that sounds horrible. i can see every scene in my mind's eye. after a while i stop being conscious of the fact that i'm even reading, my eyes and brain travel across the words and all i'm doing is seeing the scene play out in my head.

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Doe posted...

Hmm, but it makes sense to have a vocal connection when you're writing words out. That's not the same as 'internally talking through' all your decisions

I dont think anyone does that with everything though. Its like thinking aloud, but you know, not aloud. Its not always going on in the background, but I think its more on things where youre weighing out consequences.

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thronedfire2 posted...

some people not having the internal monologue thing is surprising too. Mine even does accents, back when I watched True Blood all my thoughts had a Louisiana accent for like a whole day after watching a few episodes

Sometimes when I watch Doctor Who too much I start speaking in a British accent out loud.

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I wonder about this too. I don't consider it a disadvantage, just a difference and I seem to be better than other people in other areas.

Maybe a bit like being on the spectrum. If you've ever known someone on there, there's usually at least one thing that they're insanely good at. Like, nobody else even comes close. So what they lack in social graces/life skills, they usually make up for in other areas.

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• never really liked reading, unless its about a topic i have previous interest in like reading about. though i attribute my dislike of books and reading to just having to read things i had 0 interest in as a kid then not being able to visualize things and just having a low attention span for things im not interested in lol
• i feel y'all on the art thing. ive always wanted to draw and be good at art and I feel like there is a block to me developing any real artistic ability. I basically gave up trying cause its so frustrating. dont know if its related but I imagine being able to visualize things easy makes it easier to draw

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Medussa posted...

I also have absolutely zero aesthetic creative artistic ability. I can make things geometrically, but freeform drawing is completely out of my ability. I can barely model (gaming figures, mostly), but only so far as I can follow someone else's directions.

The freeform thing is what I mean when I say that I feel like something is holding me back from really being able to draw. I can drawn an image if I have a picture up and I can keep looking back and forth between them. I can follow tutorials and end up with drawings that look good. I just have no idea how to even start with drawing pictures from my "imagination" because my imagination isn't pictures.

I think itd be significantly more difficult to draw, for sure. A good chunk of drawing is about developing techniques and muscle memory over time, but when youre starting out, youre usually working purely based on your visual recollection of what things look.

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I think itd be significantly more difficult to draw, for sure. A good chunk of drawing is about developing techniques and muscle memory over time, but when youre starting out, youre usually working purely based on your visual recollection of what things look.

It is frustrating and it makes me feel like the best that I can ever do when drawing is to copy an imagine somebody else made first, and even if I can copy that image well there is only so much satisfaction that I can get from that. I'm not really sure what to do about it.

CapnMuffin posted...

Random ? but is it hard or easy for you to do this?

I got to the last 'green' before I slipped up.

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I cant do the color thing because Im colorblind and dont even know if thats blue or purple that some of those are supposed to be

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Tenlaar posted...

It is frustrating and it makes me feel like the best that I can ever do when drawing is to copy an imagine somebody else made first, and even if I can copy that image well there is only so much satisfaction that I can get from that. I'm not really sure what to do about it.

I mean, you dont necessarily have to draw things anyway. You could try to work in a more abstract way and see if anything comes from that? Im not really sure, but it seems like something you might be able to try.

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Ye tc, you can imagine a pretty face and even see it without closing your eyes. You can see the girl of your dreams floating in front of your screen laughing and smiling. I am doing that atm.