Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 287: Prince Charles Finally Gets the Crown

(+) Yeah! (+)

Point is you can't bitch about moderates being antagonistic when Bernie supporters are equally, if not more, antagonistic.

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CoolCly posted...

Still on about this "all liberals should vote for Biden or they are morons" thing eh.

I would never vote for a candidate that i didnt want to be president. "oh we gotta keep that other guy from winning" yeah no thanks. If i vote for someone, i'm endorsing them.

I am VERY anti trump and all the stupid shit he does, but no way would i vote for someone that i think is literally not in control of his faculties. you can try to downplay it as a stutter or whatever you believe it is, and maybe you are even right, but Biden will give speeches and negotiations the same way as president that he gives interviews now. There's no way i would be happy with someone like that as leader so there's no way i would ever vote for him.

So the idea that democratic voters would not want to vote for Biden seems pretty reasonable to me.

Voting "just to keep the other guy out" really weakens the entire process imo.

Preach.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Preach.

So you are both +1 votes for Trump. Congrats.

Again, you just confirm you don't actually believe in Bernie Sanders and are just spoiled children with no stake in the stuff Bernie Sanders actually advocates for. I'm going to assume you are both financially well off and can easily afford health insurance and this is all posturing as you don't give a shit about the millions of people that will be fucked over for the next 40 years because of a Trump presidency.

I live paycheck to paycheck and have never used my pathetic health insurance as it stands. Until it became required I never even took it whenever the year rolled around.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I live paycheck to paycheck and have never used my pathetic health insurance as it stands. Until it became required I never even took it whenever the year rolled around.

So you are literally just not very bright.

Good luck if Trump is able to overturn Obamacare when he turns the Supreme Court hard right.

Just lay off it, if people don't think that getting Trump out of office is important by now I don't think there is anything that could possibly convince them, but it's definitely not the same guilt trip arguments that didnt work before.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I live paycheck to paycheck and have never used my pathetic health insurance as it stands. Until it became required I never even took it whenever the year rolled around.

Also you literally have free preventative care. You really should see your doctor yearly at least.

Not now obviously, but when this blows over (hundreds of thousands of people).

Leafeon13N posted...

So you are literally just not very bright.

Good luck if Trump is able to overturn Obamacare when he turns the Supreme Court hard right.

He has no savings to lose on healthcare. If Obamacare is overturned he'll continue to get healthcare and you'll pay for it.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Just lay off it, if people don't think that getting Trump out of office is important by now I don't think there is anything that could possibly convince them, but it's definitely not the same guilt trip arguments that didnt work before.

As long as they keep coming in here raving about how much they support Bernie I'll keep pointing out they are hypocrites if they won't vote Biden in the general.

What about those of us that have agreed to drink the Windex, but will still take every opportunity to trash on Biden because he's still a terrible candidate?

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FFDragon posted...

What about those of us that have agreed to drink the Windex, but will still take every opportunity to trash on Biden because he's still a terrible candidate?

As long as you don't fuel the fires outside gfaqs(we aren't a big enough community to matter) and will vote against Trump like he was Fortnite when it matters, have at it.

To be fair I haven't staunchly been talking up Bernie for a good while. Just shitting on Biden!

You're right though, I should REALLY go to the dentist at least.

Posts like "guess you're a +1 for Trump then" just make me hate the idea of voting for Biden even more, though, to be completely honest. Which is ironic because I was making the same posts 4 years ago. Guess I know how it feels now!

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Posts like "guess you're a +1 for Trump then" just make me hate the idea of voting for Biden even more,

I mean, that is literally a fact. Bernie voter to no one or third party is +1 Trump. I don't think there is any other way to put it on the scale. If you go from Dem to Trump it is +2, Dem to no voter it is +1.

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It's not +1, it's zero. I'm not taking anything awayz my vote was never guaranteed to Biden. He wasn't owed it like some debt.

CoolCly posted...

Still on about this "all liberals should vote for Biden or they are morons" thing eh.

I would never vote for a candidate that i didnt want to be president. "oh we gotta keep that other guy from winning" yeah no thanks. If i vote for someone, i'm endorsing them.

I am VERY anti trump and all the stupid shit he does, but no way would i vote for someone that i think is literally not in control of his faculties. you can try to downplay it as a stutter or whatever you believe it is, and maybe you are even right, but Biden will give speeches and negotiations the same way as president that he gives interviews now. There's no way i would be happy with someone like that as leader so there's no way i would ever vote for him.

So the idea that democratic voters would not want to vote for Biden seems pretty reasonable to me.

Voting "just to keep the other guy out" really weakens the entire process imo.

I don't disagree, but the poll wasn't about "Will you just not vote if it's not Bernie?"

The poll was saying 15% of Democrats/Democrat-leaning independents that are Bernie supporters would vote Trump if they couldn't vote Bernie. Those are the people we've been calling morons. Not those that just don't want to vote, even if we disagree with them as well.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

It's not +1, it's zero. I'm not taking anything awayz my vote was never guaranteed to Biden. He wasn't owed it like some debt.

Its +1 in the same way you voting for Trump would be +2, sorry, you cant just up and deny facts.

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Oh, yeah, any Bernie supporter actually going in and voting for Trump specifically was the type of. Person that represented the negative stereotype in the first place.

Although a lot of them are probably lying.

red13n posted...

Its +1 in the same way you voting for Trump would be +2, sorry, you cant just up and deny facts.

I'm not denying facts, you're just bad at math.

A -1 for (Democratic Candidate) is functionally the exact same as a +1 for (Republican Candidate) in the current system.

StealThisSheen posted...

The poll was saying 15% of Democrats/Democrat-leaning independents that are Bernie supporters would vote Trump if they couldn't vote Bernie. Those are the people we've been calling morons. Not those that just don't want to vote, even if we disagree with them as well.

That said, this is misleading to think this doesn't happen all the time.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/105691/mccain-vs-obama-28-clinton-backers-mccain.aspx

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I'm not denying facts, you're just bad at math.

You are in fact denying facts and bad at math.

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It does happen all the time

And those people are morons, too

Though the reason it stands out worse now is because Bernie is much further away from Trump than Clinton was from McCain, for instance, so there's no logical reason for it, just pettiness or ignorance.

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Reg posted...

A -1 for (Democratic Candidate) is functionally the exact same as a +1 for (Republican Candidate) in the current system.

My vote for Biden didn't exist in the first place. He's not LOSING my vote. I don't owe the democratic candidate a vote by default.

It's that same attitude that my vote was to be assumed that's going to fuck them over the most.

You know what, whatever. I don't even want to have the argument, they never go anywhere and every time it just makes me more and more resolute and dig my foot in even harder. What's the point?

that 7-2 supreme court gonna be great for progress

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

My vote for Biden didn't exist in the first place. He's not LOSING my vote. I don't owe the democratic candidate a vote by default.

It's that same attitude that my vote was to be assumed that's going to fuck them over the most.

So you're not actually a progressive, then? You don't actually want to make things better? That's the only reason I can think why an alleged progressive wouldn't owe the democratic candidate a vote by default...at least so long as the other option is literally the antithesis of everything the progressive movement claims to represent.

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The whole +1 nonsense only really checks out if you assume "generic Democrat" and then also assume that everyone who has ever voted D once will always vote D without taking into consideration that there is no such thing as "generic Democrat" in the real world.

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FFDragon posted...

The whole +1 nonsense only really checks out if you assume "generic Democrat" and then also assume that everyone who has ever voted D once will always vote D without taking into consideration that there is no such thing as "generic Democrat" in the real world.

I mean, in this specific case, if (Democrat Candiate) = Bernie Sanders, then LtM's vote would be there.

Therefore, switching (Democratic Candidate) to Joe Biden is a -1.

We're not talking about people who would never vote D here.

FFDragon posted...

The whole +1 nonsense only really checks out if you assume "generic Democrat" and then also assume that everyone who has ever voted D once will always vote D without taking into consideration that there is no such thing as "generic Democrat" in the real world.

If you are a true swing voter it does not apply. If you are a Bernie voter, he is so far to the left of Trump you are not a swing voter. Hell even Biden voters aren't swing voters right now.

Most swing voters are the "vote the guy I'd have a beer with type". If your engaging on a political topic on a message board its easy to assume you arent a swing voter.

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I mean, I voted Gary Johnson in 2016 because both parties were so fucking bad and given a time machine I'd make the same choice again I think.

In all honesty, neither party is worthy of your vote right now, but that's the trash-tier two party system for you.

I just hate hearing the idea that one side or another deserves your vote for no other reason than they exist and aren't the other guy.

Politics might be the one thing I hate the most but still keep tabs on.

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FFDragon posted...

I just hate hearing the idea that one side or another deserves your vote for no other reason than they exist and aren't the other guy.

Its not about deserving. Its about being realistic that it is a 2 party system.

And no, you arent building a 3 party system by voting third party(You just make both parties scoff at you and Russia salivate at you).

The only way a third party happens would be starting at lower levels of government and moving up. I don't think anyone is currently making strides in this direction.

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FFDragon posted...

I mean, I voted Gary Johnson in 2016 because both parties were so fucking bad and given a time machine I'd make the same choice again I think.

In all honesty, neither party is worthy of your vote right now, but that's the trash-tier two party system for you.

I just hate hearing the idea that one side or another deserves your vote for no other reason than they exist and aren't the other guy.

Politics might be the one thing I hate the most but still keep tabs on.

I want to agree with this post, and honestly probably would if it were e.g Romney running as the Republican.

Donald Trump is just so unabashedly awful and criminal that I can't right now.

That said, don't get me started on Libertarians. Libertarians are literally the worst(To be clear, they are not worse than Trump, but Trump isn't a typical Republican).

Their core ideals are flawed to an extreme.

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Reg posted...

Donald Trump is just so unabashedly awful and criminal that I can't right now.

And I get this, it's why I'll try drinking Windex this time and see what fun internal injuries I'll get from it.

But I'm not excited for it. And I'll probably go right back to third parties because I DO think it matters to at least try to break the chains.

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FFDragon posted...

But I'm not excited for it. And I'll probably go right back to third parties because I DO think it matters to at least try to break the chains.

Ross Perot just ultimately pissed everyone off. He just made the chain bigger. They don't work for this.

When enough of the electorate forgets who Ross Perot is maybe they could be impactful? But you are some 20-30 years from this.

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Trump on Twitter posted a thread bragging about his virus press conference TV ratings

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1244320570315018240?s=21

Real lunatic behavior
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Bragging about people tuning in to what are literally life or death press conferences is a pretty terrible look.

RE: Third Parties; So long as we have a two party system, neither side has any incentive to run a good candidate, not even a decent one, so long as they can point to the other side and say "we're not them."

It's a global embarrassment to have the system we do right now.


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FFDragon posted...

RE: Third Parties; So long as we have a two party system, neither side has any incentive to run a good candidate, not even a decent one, so long as they can point to the other side and say "we're not them."

It's a global embarrassment to have the system we do right now.

Do you have a solution, besides voting for candidates that cannot possibly win?

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Violent revolution
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unfortunately with Trump and Republicans being as bad as they have been this term, Dem *voters* are so heavily focused on beating Trump that they are even less interested in who they actually align with / like best than usual

one things for sure, accelerationism has be thoroughly debunked as tue Trump presidency has only normalized things worse and worse and people now look fondly back at the shit they had and would now view it all as an admirable return to normalcy

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do you all honestly not see the cyclical nature of "they can't win, so I won't vote for them, which means they can't win."

Like, no shit, I get it they aren't going to win anything RIGHT NOW, possibly never in our lifetimes. But if you never start, there will never be any sort of change. 3% can turn into 10% can turn into 34% over a generation or two if people actually cared for more than teams red and blue.

And before you ask, yes I'd be willing to take a few hits now for a better system later.

Like, we're already taking hits and getting absolutely nothing out of it!

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Jakyl25 posted...

Violent revolution

We've already determined a few topics ago the 2Aers have been all mouth.

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red13n posted...

If you are a true swing voter it does not apply. If you are a Bernie voter, he is so far to the left of Trump you are not a swing voter. Hell even Biden voters aren't swing voters right now.

Most swing voters are the "vote the guy I'd have a beer with type". If your engaging on a political topic on a message board its easy to assume you arent a swing voter.

This is 100% false, and the if you dont like Republicans but arent blue no matter who youre defacto Republican is precisely what allowed the Democratic Party to be so fucking garbage.

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https://twitter.com/etnow/status/1244359367299751937

OK this now counts as someone famous enough to make me pay attention.

An underrated 90s icon!

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FFDragon posted...

We've already determined a few topics ago the 2Aers have been all mouth.

No, I mean from the left
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

This is 100% false, and the if you dont like Republicans but arent blue no matter who youre defacto Republican is precisely what allowed the Democratic Party to be so fucking garbage.

This is not what anyone has said at all.

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FFDragon posted...

do you all honestly not see the cyclical nature of "they can't win, so I won't vote for them, which means they can't win."

Like, no shit, I get it they aren't going to win anything RIGHT NOW, possibly never in our lifetimes. But if you never start, there will never be any sort of change. 3% can turn into 10% can turn into 34% over a generation or two if people actually cared for more than teams red and blue.

And before you ask, yes I'd be willing to take a few hits now for a better system later.

The problem is that taking a few hits now could just end up making the system worse later. You're advocating for slow incremental change while leaving people in charge that are entirely opposed to it. You need immediate Ws of some kind, and right now that means knowing when to pick your battles. So I voted for Bernie, he'll probably lose, but I'll still end up supporting the Dem nominee and whatever progressive downballot candidates end up making it.

And if that doesn't work I'm gonna say Jakyl's plan is a more realistic option than voting third party for 40 years

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Im not even saying you're wrong to feel they way you do about the issue. Im just telling you behaving this way isn't helping your cause, if anything it actively discourages people from voting for Biden. And since your whole premise is the Bernie supporters are being dumb for not making sure trump loses..... you're being just as dumb by actively making choices which also hurt his chances

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