Board 8 > transience's top 100 games -- 2020 edition.

(+) Yeah! (+)

transience posted...

I actually think FFX gets much better if you either add a scene skip button or just removed voice acting altogether. games like FF6 would sound stupid as hell too if you had someone saying son of a submariner out loud.

I've wondered sometimes if voice acting is the reason I'm not as into a lot of modern RPGs.
---

transience posted...

just removed voice acting altogether.

This is why I changed my mind on wanting an FF9 remake when I heard Zidane speaking for the first time. FF9 has a lot of goofy lines that I love but don't ever want to be heard.

I also think this is the secret litmus test for what makes a modern JRPG work - in the age of voice acting, can you write dialogue that isn't embarrassing to hear out loud? This achievement isn't even consistent within specific JRPG series - consider Xenoblade 1 vs. Xenoblade 2, or Tales of Berseria vs. Tales of Graces.

---

Mac Arrowny posted...

I've wondered sometimes if voice acting is the reason I'm not as into a lot of modern RPGs.

Well, most of those games have the option to turn off VA, so you might want to give that a try sometime.

---

Mac Arrowny posted...

I've wondered sometimes if voice acting is the reason I'm not as into a lot of modern RPGs.

Its definitely never been the selling feature, but some games improvise rather well.

The real solution to this problem is just including the Japanese voices as an option, obviously.

KamikazePotato posted...

Well, most of those games have the option to turn off VA, so you might want to give that a try sometime.

Eh, the cutscenes would still have that same slow pacing that's caused by having voice acting. I appreciate it when games let you manually advance all text rather than forcing you to listen to all the dialogue (or not listen, if you have the voice acting disabled).
---

KamikazePotato posted...

This is why I changed my mind on wanting an FF9 remake when I heard Zidane speaking for the first time. FF9 has a lot of goofy lines that I love but don't ever want to be heard.

Well, Zidane's VA in Dissidia really wasn't that good, but yeah, in FFIX, he definitely says a lot of cringe-worthy pick up lines that would come across awkwardly with full voice acting.

I guess we'll get a good idea of how it impacts people's enjoyment of a game with FFVIIR!

---

Japanese voice acting can be pretty trash (especially the way they portray a lot of female characters), it's just more difficult to tell unless you're a native speaker.

---

I think ff7 remake is the outlier though, not the rule. that game is being treated with the utmost of care. you won't find a modern jrpg that will get the same kind of attention. if you remake, I don't know, Xenogears, then it's going to have a tragic result.

---

KamikazePotato posted...

Japanese voice acting can be pretty trash (especially the way they portray a lot of female characters), it's just more difficult to tell unless you're a native speaker.

So does Japanese VA not save the tidus laughing scene?

KamikazePotato posted...

it's just more difficult to tell unless you're a native speaker.

This is quite literally my point. Don't let people disable it entirely, just hide it unless they're unfortunate enough to be able to tell how the JP acting is bad too.

Plus, it's not like they're reproducing the original script word for word anyway, but I'll be curious how it goes. I thought the voice acting in the English trailers has been really solid so far though.

---

linid0t posted...

So does Japanese VA not save the tidus laughing scene?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaDocsZkWK0

You tell me lmao

(also the laughing scene is a good scene and is maybe the most misrepresented scene in any video game ever)

---

linid0t posted...

So does Japanese VA not save the tidus laughing scene?

the Japanese VA also does an obviously fake laugh because that's the point of the scene

---

Also, do the Nier games count as JRPGs, because the voice acting in both of them was pretty stellar

transience posted...

I think ff7 remake is the outlier though, not the rule. that game is being treated with the utmost of care. you won't find a modern jrpg that will get the same kind of attention.

You say that, but they've kept all the potential weird/corny lines out of the trailers


---

KamikazePotato posted...

Also, do the Nier games count as JRPGs, because the voice acting in both of them was pretty stellar

You say that, but they've kept all the potential weird/corny lines out of the trailers

I'd consider them action RPGs in the vein of something like Kingdom Hearts.

And honestly I would love FFVIIR even more if they somehow snuck "This guy are sick" in there!

---

KamikazePotato posted...

You say that, but they've kept all the potential weird/corny lines out of the trailers

They probably dont want to turn off any potential customers who are young enough to have never played the original

well, Nier has a fantastic localization, one of the best I can think of. even in 2001, FFX was slammed for Yuna's delivery and some of those lines.

my most randomly memorable FFX thing is where Tidus randomly jumps on a guy's head to take some binoculars or something like that. it's just so... weird. that stuff is littered throughout FFX and wouldn't exist if it came out today.

edit: I just found this while googling and what https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFkjo2syDrQ

---

honestly Tidus is one of my favorite characters precisely because of moments like that

whether it's doing weird impressions of the other characters in the game or randomly in throwing a Macarena reference I usually find it hilarious

also they did have Barret do the whole "I know you can hear the Planet crying out in pain!" thing in the most recent trailer so they did incorporate a corny line there!

---

I mean, there are still modern RPGs that do voice acting well, and I play with the Japanese voices a lot which are good. But some of them are probably hurt by it, especially in terms of pacing in cutscenes.
---

Anyway, I think I'm getting away from the original point I was trying to make, is that the issue with voice acting in modern JRPGs isn't so much the VA itself but the writing that goes along with it. I don't think the VA work for JRPGs or other 'anime' games is on average not any better or worse than other genres - some of its bad, some of its good. But the material those VAs have to work with can be...questionable. A lot of JRPG (and any game that comes out of Japan, honestly) writing still tends to be extremely exaggerated, and while fun in certain doses, it often just doesn't work when someone has to voice the line and try to be taken seriously. They've gotten better about it over the years but every time I buy a JRPG I still feel like I'm rolling the dice on whether or not I'll be embarrassed by a lot of what I'll be listening to.

I have faith in the FF7 Remake but there's no way it doesn't have some degree of weirdness in it. That's just how Japan does things.

---

transience posted...

This game is really close to being great.

Top ~50 game ever and it's not quite considered "great." Harsh, man.

---

Side note to tran - I think you should play CrossCode if you haven't. Would definitely be up your alley,

---

LeonhartFour posted...

and the ability to freely swap between anyone in your party on the fly is one of the best mechanics in any RPG.

Play Dragon Quest 11!

Also, I've been enjoying following this topic so far, for what little it's worth as one of the newest B8 users.

---

KamikazePotato posted...

Side note to tran - I think you should play CrossCode if you haven't. Would definitely be up your alley,

I second this recommendation just as a general rule

FF6 below FF10 is a hard one to swallow! As good as that battle system becomes, the dialogue and scene content is hard to endure these days. I think games from that era specifically are a product of their time, maybe even more than games from the 90s. Its tough to revisit those and keep in that mindset when its spoken lines you have to get past. FF6 has some absolute problems, but man, its so timeless to revisit.

FFs:

5 > 6 > 9 > 12 > 4 > 10 > 1 > 8 > 13 > 2 > 3

Or something. 3's ranking is only based on the DS version (which I have heard is worse than the NES version). I have shamefully never gotten past disk 1 of 7 (despite starting the game like five times) so I can't rank it, and I've only played like four hours or something of 15.

---

Aw yeah, Zelda 1 is great (and perfect for randomizers). Although it is the kind of game where if it came out now there's no way I'd bother to learn where everything is. As it is I play it just often enough that I have a general sense of where everything is but I always end up getting lost for a while or forgetting where to find something.

FF9 is a great one. The slow gameplay definitely bothers me more than it did when it came out, but the characters are just so endearing. Like you I'm right in the target audience, since I played and was kind of obsessed with FF1 when it came out, got hyped for FF4 from one tiny screenshot in Nintendo Power and love that game, then loved 6, 7, and Tactics.

FF6 I think is great but yeah, the World of Ruin is way worse than the World of Balance. But the World of Balance is sooo good. The splitting your party up thing is amazing and something that very few RPGs have done even now (although FF XIII did it and it suuucked, because the character and story were bad and the battle system only got interesting when you had three characters). Also the soundtrack is amazing.

FF X above 6 and 9... wut? And yeah, although voice acting can be done well, the FF games with voice acting just haven't been as good. Although I think a lot of that has to do with most of the old timers leaving Square around the time of FF X.

Anyway, FF tiers.
Top tier: Tactics, 6
Good tier: 9, 4, 1, 7, 10
Okay tier: 8, 13-2, 10-2, 5
Not Okay tier: 12, 13, 3, 2 (NES)
Shouldn't be a main-series game tier: 11, 14

The GBA version of 2 would be one tier higher than the original.

---

Glad to see FFX be properly appreciated. The Sending is still top 3 cutscenes of all time, as far as I'm concerned.

---

Holedown was actually a bit of a disappointment to me. There needed to be just a little bit more substance there, like one or two additional gameplay mechanics or something. I was pretty bummed that all the levels were the same, just different lengths/bigger numbers.

---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Top ~50 game ever and it's not quite considered "great." Harsh, man.

my next tier is where I think great starts. I try to save words like great for the super super good.

KamikazePotato posted...

Side note to tran - I think you should play CrossCode if you haven't. Would definitely be up your alley,

I have it installed! its maybe third or fourth on my list of things to play next.

---

48.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek4jdzO1NuQ

2012
Xbox 360, PC, Switch, PS4

Bleed is just damn fun to play. There arent really any other run n gun games using Bleeds dual trigger controls that I can think of. Theres a pace to the action that puts it a clear cut above the Contras of the world.

Some games have more to them, a cool atmosphere or whatever, but Bleed just gives you great combat mechanics and some really hard fights and lets you go at it. It feels kind of freeing to just play a game that feels so good.

I love how compact this game is. Youll get through it in an hour or two, less than that on replays, and it has zero fluff. Every battle is memorable. You get in, fight a lot of intense boss fights and get out. An hour of playing this game can feel exhausting because of the intensity and it feels really good afterwards. Its like the video game equivalent of a workout for your hands and brain.

---

47.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHohBVfhGDU

2013
PC, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4

The mix of story and gameplay mechanics here is truly profound. The brothers in Brothers have a really deep bond. The older brother really carries the younger brother since the younger one cant do half of the things in the game. He spends a lot of time hanging on to his brother and struggling with the fact that he cant swim. The game makes you feel that through controlling them together at the same time using both analog sticks.

This game seems to be about loss but its ultimately about growth as the younger brother goes from being a burden to slowly being able to take care of himself throughout his journey. This culminates in what is probably the most powerful moment I can think of in video games thanks to the interaction between story and gameplay. Brothers is a short, atmospheric game that can only truly work once, but even seeing it through on successive playthroughs, theres a craft and a beauty to this game thats undeniable.

---

Brothers is on Switch now too, with co-op!

---

it has co-op? that seems terrible conceptually, but maybe it works?

---

transience posted...

it has co-op? that seems terrible conceptually, but maybe it works?

Sounds like you should test it out with your son

If enough people buy the switch version then maybe they'll release a physical copy on it and I can be happy

---

I would never play Brothers with my son, holy cow

---

I have no idea how you have the fortitude to choose 100 games, much less rank them.

I had an image but cant post it.

---

I could do 200 with enough time!

---

46.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpce6dPZnJU

2008
Xbox 360

This would have been a killer arcade game back in the day. Geometry Wars 2 is a dual-stick high score chaser that gets your pulse up because so much is going on and youre probably going to die very quickly.

Its six unique game modes all play very differently and are addictive in their own ways. Some are timed and some come at you fast. Some are slower paced and strategic (but still killing you very fast). The game lets you change up the pace so you dont get bored grinding on the same high score run, and it works really well.

The real secret of this game is that it is an audiovisual delight. Things are exploding all over the screen and the sound effects of each shape coming after you are clues on what you need to be ready for.

This game is frustrating because you almost always feel like you shouldnt have died on what you did - not that you died unnecessarily, but that you should have done better. That frustration makes you slam the button and play another run, and before you know it an hour has passed. The one more run feeling is what really sells this game.

I wish this game would come to other consoles. Its probably playable on the Xbox One through back compat, but literally every other XBLA game of note has come to a plethora of other platforms and this is the only one still trapped on the dated service.

---

brothers is alright but i never thought it was great. it's got an interesting mechanic and an excellent ending but nothing beyond that hooked me. maybe it seems lesser because there are so many indie games now that use mechanics or aesthetic as a metaphor for grief/depression.

speaking of, you should play what remains of edith finch

---

there's so many depression games now that I actually feel less impacted by them? not talking about edith finch or brothers, just all these one hour long grief simulators that seem around every corner.

---

yep, same! sometimes they hit for me (sea of solitude), sometimes they work for other reasons (rime), and still other times i find them perfectly acceptable but not anything special (gris).

they're so frequent i could probably slot three other games in that description without even trying.

---

yeah. I'm actually a little worried about gamers that there's such a market for these? I'm obviously supportive of these kinds of things, as I know you are, but it feels so incredibly prevalent that I feel weird about it. I'm starting to appreciate games like Bleed that can have a killer gameplay experience without any kind of message, weird as that is to say.

---

I played What Remains of Edith Finch recently and enjoyed it, but I haven't really played anything else in that genre. It doesn't feel like something that I'd want to play a lot of.

---

i dunno, that's just art? i guess in games there's only so many types of stories that get saturated, but are you worried about moviegoers because there's a market for something like eternal sunshine?

Leonhart4 posted...

I played What Remains of Edith Finch recently and enjoyed it, but I haven't really played anything else in that genre. It doesn't feel like something that I'd want to play a lot of.

i wouldn't say most first person narrative adventure games are about grief and loss. gone home, the witness and paratropic are all wildly different games

if anything most of them are about making quick money on steam through jump scares

---

yeah, you're not wrong

except about brothers

---

the gris of 2013

where's my brothers gun skin for tom clancy's rainbow six siege

---

I didn't know about that, that's awful

I hope Fortnite gets an ingame event about Kate Marsh's suicide jump

---

transience posted...

yeah. I'm actually a little worried about gamers that there's such a market for these? I'm obviously supportive of these kinds of things, as I know you are, but it feels so incredibly prevalent that I feel weird about it. I'm starting to appreciate games like Bleed that can have a killer gameplay experience without any kind of message, weird as that is to say.

Same. That's what kind of irked me about Celeste. The whole anxiety motif was way on the nose.

---