Board 8 > transience's top 100 games -- 2020 edition.

(+) Yeah! (+)

xp1337 posted...

Didn't the Persona team see some change in leadership after 5? I've heard Royal hasn't really changed in that regard but maybe there's hope 6 can be better about it? Because yeah, Atlus has a... not good... track record on those issues.

Yeah Hashino is heading up Project Re: Fantasy.

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Persona 5 needed to change up its music every now and then. For an OST with supposedly 80+ songs, I swear I heard maybe 10 of them throughtout the entire game.

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54.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4bvZZa5Mtg

I love the Zelda 1 overworld. With enough skill, you can go anywhere at any time. Theres a lot of options: you can go out of order on dungeons, sure, but theres also just finding secret entrances which exist on every other screen. Some will give you a free heart, some give you money, some charge you for a door repair fee. I think a lot of Zelda players think of this game as being archaic and lacking structure, but that aimless wandering is my favourite part of it. I'd rather wander around an open world map than navigate a dungeon. Wandering is fun.

Of course, over time and playthroughs you just learn where to go and what not to do. Zelda 1 is all about exploring the overworld and that magic goes away when you know it so well. Thats where randomizers come in. Zelda 1s core design works perfectly with a randomizer, meaning that you can come back to this thing endlessly and get that special sense of discovery each time you burn a bush. I find myself grabbing a new seed fairly often (once a year or so) and spending a couple of days trying to find where everything is, getting worked by wizzrobes all the while.


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KamikazePotato posted...

Persona 5 needed to change up its music every now and then. For an OST with supposedly 80+ songs, I swear I heard maybe 10 of them throughtout the entire game.

mementos we're looking at you

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4 > 5 > 3

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53.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYME5YC2IbY

2018
Mobile, Switch

Some games dont need a fancy writeup. In Holedown, you aim and shoot a bunch of balls that go flying all over the place and it feels so damn good. Its like a dopamine blast to all the senses as the screen lights up and the block breaking sounds go crazy.

Theres nothing more to it. Holedown is addicting and fun. I will play this game on my phone for years.

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okay, fourth tier down! I guess this is the 'all out attack' tier.

100. hacknet
99. braid
98. batman: arkham asylum
97. super meat boy
96. portal
95. world of goo
94. hollow knight
93. super mario world
92. mega man maker
91. ace attorney 2
90. zelda: majora's mask
89. xenoblade chronicles xi

88. monument valley
87. dragon warrior
86. mega man 3
85. castlevania: dawn of sorrow
84. nier: automata
83. we love katamari
82. zelda: link to the past
81. lethal league
80. half-minute hero 2
79. mike tyson's punch out!!
78. god of war 2
77. wolfenstein 2: the new colossus
76. super smash bros ultimate

75. binding of isaac
74. final fantasy 7
73. super hexagon
72. crystalis
71. suikoden
70. ace attorney 5
69. etrian odyssey 5
68. dragon warrior monsters 2
67. crypt of the necrodancer
66. dragon quest 3
65. final fantasy 4
64. actraiser
63. shadow hearts 2

62. persona 4 golden
61. metroid fusion
60. mega man 11
59. castle crashers
58. ace attorney investigations 2
57. street fighter 2
56. shadow complex
55. persona 5
54. zelda 1
53. holedown

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looking good joker

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I really wish the P5 anime adaptation hadn't been so disappointing. I'm starting to think P4's anime was just lightning in a bottle.

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I never made it to the first day of school in P5, I was on the way to school that day and then saved and haven't played it again

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P5 has a really strong intro. They really drive home the theme of the game.

It might have been a little too effective though because I'm not sure any other boss really lived up to the first one.

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This is making me want to try and put together a top 100 list...

Our tastes are pretty different, but I'm really impressed you know your own taste this well.
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transience posted...

89. xenoblade chronicles xi

Damn how far in the future do you live?

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52.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwrPK0ulK4I

2000
PS1

I have a real deep connection for the Final Fantasy series, going back to 1990, which is to say that FF9 strikes a chord with me. This game is openly pandering to people like me: someone who really cares when they invoke FF4s four fiends, or cares when they talk about Josefs story in FF2. All of those feelings are deeply woven into my DNA and this game hits it hard.

Of course, if the first thing that comes to mind with FF9 is its reverence for series history, the second thing is the games speed. The slow battle system gets all the attention, but really, this game is just overall slow. Towns take forever to navigate. The story plays out pretty slow. The pacing of some of the slower sections, especially trigger pointing, can feel like work. You definitely have to work to enjoy this game. This is a game that really benefits from a frameskip.

Its almost like the game was overpowering the PS1. Its got to be the best looking game on the system. Those prerendered backgrounds still look great today. The music evokes really strong feelings and I really like the games main characters and story. It has some of the best scenes in the series. When this game peaks, it really soars.

The gameplay honestly works despite the speed. The class system works because each character essentially exists as that class archetype: Zidane as a thief, Vivi as a black mage, Steiner as a knight, etc. I really enjoy the ability system, synthesizing new weapons and trying to get every piece of equipment so you can master every ability. None of it is really needed as FF9 is a fairly easy game but its really fun anyway.

So, while FF9 has its drawbacks, its strengths shine through. Its still a lot of fun to play today and despite its glacial battle system I think it holds up the best of the PS1 FF games by far.

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Isn't the speed argument for IX rendered moot with the PC version now out?

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I used to want an FF9 remake (and it's still tempting after seeing how good the FF7 remake is shaping up to be), but hearing Zidane's voiced lines in Dissidia made me rethink that. I don't think the game needs modernizations so much as updates. Which the Steam port does a good job at, especially with stuff like this:

https://sites.google.com/view/moguri-mod/home

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maybe for battles, but even then I didn't care for the implementation. it basically goes to warp speed or nothing. to be honest I haven't played with it because I think it disables achievements (???) as if you're cheating if you just want to speed things up.

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KamikazePotato posted...

I used to want an FF9 remake (and it's still tempting after seeing how good the FF7 remake is shaping up to be), but hearing Zidane's voiced lines in Dissidia made me rethink that. I don't think the game needs modernizations so much as updates. Which the Steam port does a good job at, especially with stuff like this:

https://sites.google.com/view/moguri-mod/home

yeah, I've looked at this but it doesn't really appeal to me - for 7, yeah, but this game already looks pretty good

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Yeah, I think FFIX's simplicity works in its favor. It's my least favorite of the FF Golden Age, but I still have a lot of fun every time I play it. The battle system isn't great, but there are very few games in the series I play for their battle system.

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I don't have much against warp speed!
Made FFV way more bearable when you needed to grind a little bit during a job fiesta run,

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also I don't ever really use the "cheats" when playing the modern FF ports

I like to play the game as it is, and I'm not ever really in a "hurry" to beat a game

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Being able to turn off random battles was the best part of FF8, so I'm all for more games having that option at least.

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transience posted...

to be honest I haven't played with it because I think it disables achievements (???) as if you're cheating if you just want to speed things up.

i think you're conflating the old ff pc ports of 7 and 8 with the new ports

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oh I'm fine with an option to disable random encounters or whatever because I agree most RPGs should have that anyway

but I don't need to play at warp speed or have instant Limits or whatever

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I do think more granularity is nice (the PC ports of the Cold Steel games let you set the fast forward to any speed, for example), but even just having the speedup would be great for FFIX battles considering how slow they are.
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RPG battle speed matters a lot to me at this point in my life. I'm glad I held out for Dragon Quest 11 Switch because I can't imagine playing that game at the normal speed settings.

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With RPGs I kinda just wanna blitz through any battle where you one shot with a normal attack.
Accelerating the game also makes steals or drops a little less painful.
With IX there's really good items that have a super low steal rate, which makes the battle loop a bit of a pain.

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iiicon posted...

i think you're conflating the old ff pc ports of 7 and 8 with the new ports

nah, I haven't played those (well, unless you count the old FF7 PC port that I played in 1998)

I just booted it up and went and played with it. you can turn frameskip on but you have to pause + hit a button to enable it so that sucks if you just want to frameskip battles. fortunately you can also just hit a keyboard shortcut to activate it. there are options to do it in the menu but it disables stuff. the frameskip in the game doesn't seem to be configurable either - I'd just like to play battles at like 2x speed, not warp speed with ATB involved, but maybe there are options in the config files for that.


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Tbh, after Bravely Default's implementation of the speed up function, I wanted all my RPGs to have something akin to that.

Don't some games have on field enemies run away from you if you're sufficiently high level as well?

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Yeah, Zidane having a pitiful Steal rate is what makes some of those boss battles really annoying, but I don't mind the speed in and of itself.

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voltch posted...

Don't some games have on field enemies run away from you if you're sufficiently high level as well?

I know Persona does this. Not sure about other RPGs off the top of my head.

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LeonhartFour posted...

I know Persona does this. Not sure about other RPGs off the top of my head.

Dragon Quest games that actually have on-field enemies also do this.

half-minute hero has the best implementation, where if you're too high in level for the enemy they just bounce off you and you get the exp

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51.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGC_EzojK6E

1994
SNES

I think FF6 gets my vote for best Final Fantasy story, though there are caveats there. I really really like the struggle against the empire in the world of balance. FF6 is fairly straightforward and Star Wars-y but it totally works as an RPG plot.

The ensemble cast gives you many views of the empire and gives you a lot of motivation to get them back. FF6 does some really interesting stuff like Lockes scenario, Zozo, the banquet with Gestahl or the opera. The plot moves forward at a masterful pace as it builds and builds until you hit the climax at the floating continent. The end scene there is probably the most impactful scene in series history, and the moments afterwards with Celes are next level for something that came out in 1994.

The beginning of the world of ruin is good, as the story is still driving you forward. Seeing the world transform is really fascinating as you try to put the pieces back together. But once you get the airship back, the games masterful pace just kind of freezes. Kefka hides in his tower and youre free to just wander. Without that driving force, it kind of stumbles.

The reason it stumbles is that I dont think the gameplay of FF6 is very fun. It's worse than that - it's kind of bad. The characters are extremely same-y in battle and the fights just arent very fun. Most of the dungeons are mediocre at best with some being hilariously bad, especially in the world of ruin. It sucks, because this game has such power narratively. The below-average battles are tolerable when the plot is driving you forward, but once that dries up, the game stagnates. This game is really close to being great.

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LeonhartFour posted...

I know Persona does this. Not sure about other RPGs off the top of my head.

Trails, at least in Cold Steel, but it's very rare you'll encounter it given how EXP scaling generally keeps you in an expected range.

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Late tag, only one comment.

I've rarely watched games at length. I was huge into competitive Starcraft and Marvel vs Capcom 3 back in the day, but I can't watch TF2 or PUBG or HOTS/LoL/MOBAs. I just dont pay attention.

The only thing since MvC3's early 10s heyday that I hungered for and watched for hours on end was competitive Zelda 1 Randomizer (ft. Para). The double screen, the variety, the strong competitors, the intensity of the final dungeon, who would find ganon first, can they find zelda, do they have the silver arrows, did they go through all the dungeons rooms just for the banana? I miss watching so much.

Enjoying the list quite a bit


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I feel like FFVI was the first game in the series that really got serious about making the game a cinematic experience, although it obviously has limitations, like a lot of characters basically being interchangeable.

I've never been able to figure out whether I like World of Balance or World of Ruin better. I can be swayed by an argument from either side on any given day.

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this was a thing Earthbound did right, the killing weak enemies automatically thing

50.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csQFGdTZqN0

2006
DS

Portrait is the best of both Castlevania worlds. It has the general look and feel of a Symphony-like but also features smaller, contained levels in the form of portraits which are more akin to a classic Castlevania. The castle doesnt sprawl quite like a Symphony of the Night or a Dawn of Sorrow, but I think I prefer that. Sometimes figuring out the next place to go can be a struggle and that is almost never a problem in Portrait.

This games gimmick is the two character system, where you can switch between two guys or use them together to do big damage through combo attacks. That stuff is definitely a gimmick, but its fun. It never gets in your way and you typically fight bosses with just one guy to conserve MP anyway. Charlotte just makes things go by a little faster.

Overall, this game kind of has no flaws. All of the touch screen problems with Dawn are missing here and collecting souls has almost no purpose outside of adding gameplay variety (and I usually stick to standard attacks + Charlottes magic anyway). You can definitely run into grinding problems if you want to collect them all but theres really not a need unless youre a completionist (which is fine).

This game features a great array of boss fights, especially towards the end, and the last boss is super memorable due to its unique circumstances and general gameplay challenge. Some of the skills you get in the back half of the game make traversal super fun, and if youre crazy like me you might play with some of the cool sequence breaking paths that totally break the game.

If this game does struggle anywhere its that, while its completely competent in every way, it also feels very standard fare. Its not doing anything exciting. Its fun to play but its not a game that really sticks in your mind or keeps you coming back for more. Its like eating a sandwich. For as much as I dont really care for Symphony of the Night, I have to admit that its much better at crafting an experience than Portrait is.

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we're just getting these all out of the way tonight

48.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnhee7Btowk

2001
PS2

FFX is a weird dichotomy of feelings for me. The games biggest strength is the world building they do to establish Spira as this unique place with specific customs, norms and laws but then your ability to actually explore that space is essentially nonexistent, as are any semblance of level or dungeon design.

Its turn based battle system and leveling mechanics are best of class and are still thought of super highly today but then the battles themselves are overly simplistic, matching enemy types to characters and switching them out as the game commands you. Later on you can deviate a little, but by then youre in the endgame or even postgame.

Its overall narrative is strong, especially with how it handles the existential fear of Sin and the religious dogma of Yevon but its massively undercut by the dialogue and voice acting which is juvenile at best and awful at worst. Its actually shocking just how cringe-y this game feels so many years after its release.

Even the balance of the game feels awkward. The beginning focuses heavily on Spira and its customs, some of the best stuff in the game, while the gameplay is very basic. When you reach the second half, the game gets much richer from a gameplay perspective but falls flat as the scenes get longer and the dialogue starts to get more and more painful to hear. Its really strange to play this game today. I like it a ton, but sometimes I step back and wonder if this game has just aged really poorly or if maybe Ive outgrown it.

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I think FFX actually starts really slowly and doesn't really get good until Operation Mi'ihen. The first couple hours in particular are really tough to get through, and I say this as someone who considers this one of his favorite games.

The gameplay is basic, but the CTB is fun and the ability to freely swap between anyone in your party on the fly is one of the best mechanics in any RPG.

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the first hour is bad, yeah, but once you get to Besaid I think it's pretty good. gameplay wise though, yeah, cause the game is slowly spoon feeding you basic combat mechanics.

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I'm enjoying your list thus far even if I'd rearrange most of it, but FFX isnt worthy imo

I think all things considered, FFX has aged mostly well. Basically no game released in the early 2000s with a cinematic-and-full-cutscenes-with-voice-acting experience holds up by today's standards (exceptions being MGS2 and Silent Hill 2), but FFX still manages to keep its emotional core despite the jank.

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I've never really minded FFX's voice work, but a game has to have truly horrendous voice acting for it to negatively impact my opinion of it. I can tolerate a lot on that front...!

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LeonhartFour posted...

I've never really minded FFX's voice work, but a game has to have truly horrendous voice acting for it to negatively impact my opinion of it. I can tolerate a lot on that front...!

Thanks for giving me an excuse to post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bangt7d9vGA

It even has some of your favorite characters in it!

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I actually think FFX gets much better if you either add a scene skip button or just removed voice acting altogether. games like FF6 would sound stupid as hell too if you had someone saying son of a submariner out loud.

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Chaos Wars was the game that immediately came to mind when I posted that...!

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transience posted...

I actually think FFX gets much better if you either add a scene skip button or just removed voice acting altogether.

Yeah, I was really confused why the Remaster didn't add a scene skip option. I don't ever really skip scenes when replaying a game (since the story is usually part of the reason I'm playing it), but it should at least be an option for people who do.

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