Board 8 > transience's top 100 games -- 2020 edition.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Augh the vase

Aw yeah the metal detector

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There sure are a lot of Phoenix Wright games on here

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

There sure are a lot of Phoenix Wright games on here

Deservedly so

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So much PW love. I could never get into the series unfortunately, and theres so many games now it would feel overwhelming to try.

final fantasy takes the prize there

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LadyVyxx posted...

So much PW love. I could never get into the series unfortunately, and theres so many games now it would feel overwhelming to try.

Eh, most of the games in the series are in the 20-25 hour range and the original trilogy is available basically everywhere now.

Honestly, you could just play the OT and be perfectly satisfied.

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transience posted...

though theres a skill barrier that you have to push through

or you could just play and let theo wreck you 50 matches in a row thats what i did

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The Messenger was probably my biggest disappointment on Switch so far. Maybe its just that Ive continued to play Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2 up to the current day (fuck 3, even the Japanese version) so I am too used to how those feel. Enemies in The Messenger were way too slow and easy. I got to the second half and wasnt impressed by anything new I saw so I dropped it.

have you tried Caves of Qud? Its a roguelike thats been in early access for a while that (usually) doesnt immediately punish you for not using the correct strategy, and the skill and mutation systems are pretty cool. Has cool music, too. I like TOME a decent amount but I find myself gravitating towards Qud more and more (or going back to Stone Soup)

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thats an interesting Messenger take - enemies in Ninja Gaiden arent hard either, usually just a single hit. thats a game of a thousand cuts and being knocked to your death in the most frustrating ways. I like Ninja Gaiden too.

I see Messenger quite a bit differently. its more about platforming challenges and movement, almost like an Ori. I think maybe if you come to it from that NG perspective with a lot of history it could be disappointing, but I dont have those feelings despite a lot of NG over the years.

I havent played Qud. one roguelike is enough for me, and maybe even one too many.

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yeah I thought the messenger was bunk

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34.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBGX0dl5Ziw

2014
PC

I like city builders, but one thing I cant handle is too much complexity. Thats kind of the genre though. I want to like Cities: Skylines but I open it up and am greeted with a thousand different icons and menus and its super overwhelming. Ive tried 3 or 4 times and have anxiously walked away from it very quickly each time.

Banished, on the other hand, is a village builder, one that focuses more on surviving the winter than just building stuff. The end result feels more organic as you spend more time on resource management and micromanagement than trying to build a megalopolis.

You might go a year in the game and only build a single house, and maybe not even that if you want to focus on just clearing trees or collecting stones. Banished is the definition of a slow burn, but that buildup feels really authentic as you go from 20 named people to maybe 100 people over the course of many hours. You likely will never hit 1000 even in the best conditions. Its small enough that the game notifies you when a single person grows to be an adult and when they die.

It also has a really nice back woods tone that I really like. The quiet ambiance of a village -- the music helps here -- feels all the more impactful when things happen, positive or negative. This game feels lived in and real, unlike the other city builders that Ive played where they feel magnanimous and booming at the macro level. This one has quiet moments that can feel absolutely deadly on a personal level when your town gets wiped out because the winter was particularly harsh and there isnt enough food or warm coats to survive it.

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I should play that again, I could never make it through the second winter

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i cant agree more that 1-4 is the most important case in all of pw, even if its not the one i rate the "best"

up until that point i was somewhat entertained and amused by what was a pretty clever but not terribly memorable game
1-4 turned everything around and at that point i was hooked

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Spirit of Justice was cool for giving Apollo some much needed development, but I think it also had the worse new gameplay addition.

It felt a lot more frustrating if you hit a moment where you were just going by trial and error.

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This topic has inspired me to purchase the Japanese physical copy of the Ace Attorney trilogy on Switch. It apparently has the entire English localization.

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LadyVyxx posted...

So much PW love. I could never get into the series unfortunately, and theres so many games now it would feel overwhelming to try.

the four original AA1 cases run about 15 hours total. the series explodes in complexity from there, but that will be enough for you to determine whether you're interested in going further!

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33.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB7p8O2_mz8

1995, 2011
SNES/PSP

Ive been a big fan of Let Us Cling Together since the 90s. (Its one of only 12 games that have made every top xx games list of mine since I started tracking them in, lets see, early 2004.) At this point I only play the remake, but I do have a ton of affection for the original.

Tactics Ogre is FFTs daddy, and there are some things that it does straight up better than FFT. Its branching story is super fun and really forward thinking given when it came out. Its really fascinating to watch the whole story play out differently when you change up a few choices.

The characters arent as good here as they are in FFT, but its mostly because everyone in this game is a gigantic dick. LUCTs world is super harsh and that carries over to a really brutal atmosphere. The PSP version of LUCT also has a fantastic translation, much better than any of the versions that FFT got. That translation really lets the dicks shine.

Battles are also on FFTs level, if not above them. You get a bigger army in LUCT and the quality of life tweaks in the PSP version make battling a lot more fun. There are a ton of named characters that join your party and theyre a lot of fun to use. Youre looking for every advantage you can get in this game because some of the content can be pretty rough to deal with, especially the optional content.

Unfortunately, they somehow screwed up the progression in LUCT. Without going too into the weeds, classes level up, not characters, which means that any new class that you unlock is largely useless unless you spend hours and hours dragging those classes along until theyre finally on a competent level to be able to help your party. The end result is that you basically never change class, so while there is a job system at play here and you use all sorts of different classes, youre never going to be bouncing your characters from class to class to mix and match skills. That just doesnt exist, and its really too bad because its all there to be leveraged. The game just doesnt allow it with how its designed.

The gameplay is awesome, and theres tons of optional/postgame content, but oh my god does it grindy in the postgame. You can beat this game in 50 hours and feel satisfied, but youll be putting in like 500 hours if you actually want to get 100%. It sucks because the gameplay here is so good, but they basically force you to run maps over and over in the hopes of getting random drops so you can continue on. LUCT is awesome but theres just enough questionable stuff in the remake to keep it a clear tier below FFT.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

This topic has inspired me to purchase the Japanese physical copy of the Ace Attorney trilogy on Switch. It apparently has the entire English localization.

Very jealous that you get to experience them for the first time!

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yeah, the ace attorney trilogy is self contained and tells a very complete story. you can think of it like the original star wars trilogy: you might see those characters in the other movies but their story is really contained to those three movies. if you've played the first AA and it doesn't appeal then yeah, skip the rest cause they're not going to bring anything to the table that will really change your mind.

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LUCT and FFT are games I have a hard time separating. I think I'd have them in a similar spot on my own list unless FFT makes like top 10 here. I think what puts FFT slightly over the edge is that awesome mobile port. It's just so playable. It's usually the first thing I boot up whenever I get a new phone


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that's a real good port but I can't play it without buttons. I just need my menuing to be a lot faster than a touch screen can give me. I wish they'd put it on other platforms - they've done that with every other game of theirs.

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i mean ideally it'd be on switch or the psp version would be patched to run properly on vita but it is what it is

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Disgaea > Disgaea D2 > FFT > Disgaea 5 > Disgaea 4 > TO LuCT > TO KoL > Pokemon Conquest > Disgaea 2 > Disgaea 3

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I was thinking more about PC. seems like you could do a lot with modding that version given how much fans have done to the ps1 version

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32.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUloJK7nw7g

2017
PC, Switch, PS4, XB1

The bullet parry changes everything. Bleed was already super good but the core gameplay is more fun with the ability to shoot shots back at enemies. It adds a dimension to your arsenal that the original lacked. Before, you were just dodging everything but now you can fight back.

Bleed 1 was focused. It has no fluff. But compared to Bleed 2? Bleed 2 has something like 25 bosses in the span of an hour. It's crazy. Some are reused from the original but those dudes are still fun to fight.

This game cant go more than one minute without throwing a really fun boss fight at you. There's so much to take in on a second by second basis that it might even be too much. Bleed 2 trumps Bleed 1 in every way to the point that it kinda feels obsolete despite being a completely different game. Bleed 2 is a lot of fun to go back to and I throw it on all the time to try to beat my best runs or just to cruise through it in a quick sitting.


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Tactics style games are totally a genre that benefit from a speed up option!
Disgaea games gave that to me in a good way.

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31.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pak00-dkrrY

PS2
2001

Im not sure how, exactly, but SH1 totally holds up. I mean, dont get me wrong, it was dated even when it came out in 2001. It came out on the PS2 but it feels more suited to the PS1. The pre-rendered environments feel like theyre from that golden era and the fact that this games awkward dialogue isnt voiced over is a blessing in disguise. (And before you ask, Sea Mama is just a weird blessing from the gods.)

SH2 has a great soundtrack but it doesnt get the chance to shine because all the biggest scenes have mediocre voice acting drowning out the mood. This is a general complaint I have of most games that came out in the 2000s: their soundtracks just arent as memorable, something thats continued into the 2010s where soundtracks can start to resemble movie soundtracks due to the subject matter becoming so much more cinematic. But SH1? Its basically a 90s game transported to 2001 and that soundtrack is killer. The first half of this game takes place in Asia and the soundtrack makes you feel it, and when you get to Europe, you get much moodier, atmospheric pieces. This games sound really sells it, not just the music but the sound design too.

SH1s gameplay is really simple and unrefined. The battles go by really quick though and the dungeon designs are really straightforward and fun. This game isnt trying to be overly smart with puzzles. It just lets you walk straight through and experience the atmosphere. Atmosphere is what SH1 does really well and it still plays today, thanks in large part to that soundtrack.

The dialogue here can be awkward as hell, especially in the early goings where Yuri is a straight up creeper that would totally not play if it came out today. But once you get going, the story is really enjoyable and the three main characters work together really well. I really like this cast and the overall story that it tells. Of course, its more about atmosphere than story, but those two things play together really well. This game has a vibe to it that makes it feel really special.

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Yeah, SH1 is all about the atmosphere. Both games have this sort of morbid humor, but SH1 emphasizes the morbid more and SH2 emphasizes the humor more.

Yuri also sets the tone that this isn't your average JRPG protagonist in the opening scenes. Rude Jerk indeed.

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top 30 time. feel free to spend the rest of the topic predicting or complaining or whatever and I'll make a new one for the top 30.

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I liked Bleed when I played it a year or so ago, but man, Im not sure these hit as all-time games for me. They feel a bit like empty calories, you know? Fun in the moment, then just forgotten right after.

Im surprised SH1 has held so strong, but I think between the two (SH1/2), it has a unique vibe to it that makes it stand out as something a bit more special. Like you mentioned, I think those PS1-era RPGs hold better than PS2.

I do have empty calorie games for sure but Bleed isnt one of them, not for me. I find loot games to be that specifically, games where you fight so you can get stuff so you can fight so you can get more stuff. I try to avoid those kinds of games, like Diablo or whatever, but sometimes they get their hooks in me real deep.

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Mm, yeah, I know what you mean about loot games. Those can be really fun (Destiny) right up until the point where youve exhausted the major content, and then shifts into this hours long grind to get multiples of the same gear but maybe it increases your damage by fractions of percent. Thats partially what has always turned me off MMOsthe time investment and what it asks relative to what you get out of it.

Bleed and Bleed 2 are two of my favorite action games of all time. They get more fun the more time you put into them, and it just gets better on the higher difficulty settings.

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MMOs terrify me because I still think of them like wow and everquest and I cant have that in my life. I need a game that I can take a break from and not feel like Im missing out.

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i play ff14 almost exclusively for the story so really it's only committing about 60 hours for an rpg every 2 years

the problem is we're now 4 campaigns in so it's a big ask for new people

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I always considered Shining Force the precursor to Tactics...

... But I was a Sega child.
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transcience posted...

MMOs terrify me because I still think of them like wow and everquest and I cant have that in my life. I need a game that I can take a break from and not feel like Im missing out.

This is why the trend thats been happening the last couple years of publishers making so many live games kinda sucks for me. Every game demands that you stick with it consistently, and if you dont, it feels like youre behind or missing out, and maybe have to play that much more to get back into the swing of things to catch up with everyone else.

iiicon posted...

i play ff14 almost exclusively for the story so really it's only committing about 60 hours for an rpg every 2 years

the problem is we're now 4 campaigns in so it's a big ask for new people

This is actually an interesting way of framing it. When you consider it that way, its not so bad. But yeah, when its 250 hours worth of content to go through it becomes so daunting. Can you skip all that early stuff at all?

heroicmario posted...

This is actually an interesting way of framing it. When you consider it that way, its not so bad. But yeah, when its 250 hours worth of content to go through it becomes so daunting. Can you skip all that early stuff at all?

yeah they sell story skips and you can rewatch all the cutscenes later in-game

buuuut that'd be a really bad way to play it for anyone other than the mmo player who goes into it for the mmo things

heroicmario posted...

This is why the trend thats been happening the last couple years of publishers making so many live games kinda sucks for me. Every game demands that you stick with it consistently, and if you dont, it feels like youre behind or missing out, and maybe have to play that much more to get back into the swing of things to catch up with everyone else.

honestly yeah this sucks. there's a bunch of games I like to play regularly all doing limited events right now I'd like to participate in but I can't do all of them. they're needier than my own kids

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heroicmario posted...

This is why the trend thats been happening the last couple years of publishers making so many live games kinda sucks for me. Every game demands that you stick with it consistently, and if you dont, it feels like youre behind or missing out, and maybe have to play that much more to get back into the swing of things to catch up with everyone else.

Totally agree with this.


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I dunno... I always thought MMOs were gonna be lame and expensive. I played FFXI for a few months, and almost never tried one again...

... Then I played WoW for several years. Never seriously (I didn't do endgame raiding). I wouldn't call myself addicted. Outside of expansion releases, I'd always ditch WoW to go see real friends...
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heroicmario posted...

This is actually an interesting way of framing it. When you consider it that way, its not so bad. But yeah, when its 250 hours worth of content to go through it becomes so daunting. Can you skip all that early stuff at all?

I think FFXIV's next patch is supposed to give you a thing where you can skip the real tedious section of the game between the main game and the first expansion? Not sure when that's expected out though. Sometime in 2020 I assume?
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heroicmario posted...

Can you skip all that early stuff at all?

they're gonna shorten some filler quests they added before the first expansion which suck, but otherwise no without paying money to skip the story (whats the point there)

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Hmm I've thought about getting FF XIV, but I have a pretty bad habit of sinking way too much time into MMOs when I do play them.

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next topic here: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/78293456


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Man I put so many hours into disgaea 1-3 and now I can't stand the series

transience posted...

give it a shot! there's a few of us around these parts who have Maj'eyal and I think we all like it a bunch.

Can confirm! ToME is very good, and I could easily have invested many more hours in it than I already have.

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