Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 252: Voiding Our Special Relationship

(+) Yeah! (+)

Corrik7 posted...

Kinda weird.

Corrik7 posted...

A lot of Dems/libs seem further and further antj-Jewish so I am not surprised to see you all in an uproar over this. I find it odd he wants to make a religion a nationality because I mean... You can convert into being a Jewish person. Which is what seems odd to me. It would be like making a Christian a nationality. I mean, I get the point to make anti-Semitism a racist crime, which har har Trump is a Nazi Har har, and it is an admirable goal. I just, think that's an odd way to go about it.

Tony, can you make sense at some point?

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Corrik7 posted...

So, he is in your personal headspace as alt-right. Got ya. Though you know he isn't. So, shows your bias a bit.

https://i.redd.it/sskafohwfq5z.jpg

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We already have words to describe the common ideological thread of alt-righters: nativism and isolationism. Adding in temperament is kind of stupid and irrelevant.

But yes, in this sense, Trump is absolutely "alt-right" because he is openly nativist and campaigned as an isolationist (in both trade policy and militarily).

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Corrik7 posted...

Tony, can you make sense at some point?

The first sentence there where you imply were in an uproar because leftists are antisemites is kinda weird if you also disagree with what Trump was doing.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

CNN inviting Richard Spencer on to talk about how Trump isnt racist enough for him

This is the problem with CNN inviting Richard Spencer for him to spread misinformation. He *really* shouldn't be taken at his word when Richard Spencer has already said that his and the alt-right's goal is to shift the reality of what society deems unthinkable.



Claiming Trump isn't racist enough in an effort to disassociate and normalize him and shift the overton window their direction is the entire purpose, because yes even the Klan knows the Klan is a tough sell off the bat. Richard Spencer's job on CNN wasn't to make the case that Richard Spencer and his ideology are reasonable directly, but to lighten up Trump's image to be more palatable.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

The first sentence there where you imply were in an uproar because leftists are antisemites is kinda weird if you also disagree with what Trump was doing.

Not my fault if you can't read tbqh.

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Corrik7 posted...

Tony, can you make sense at some point?

Is it that difficult for you to explain the things you say in a discussion topic?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Is it that difficult for you to explain the things you say in a discussion topic?

I already did explain. Is it that difficult for you to read the posts in the discussion topic that relate to your questions?

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also, not that it really matters to the rightness of the thing, from the way your reaction is just that its weird it seems like you dont know that theres a lot of precedent for Jewish as a racial categorization in addition to a religious one. It would be much weirder to make Christianity a nationality since it doesnt have that same racial component.

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explain
verb

1. make (an idea, situation, or problem) clear to someone by describing it in more detail or revealing relevant facts or ideas.

Im asking for more of your thoughts, Corrik. Did your reasoning begin and end at well I assume the goal is good so it must be good?

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Corrik7 posted...

Not my fault if you can't read tbqh.

i read it just fine. maybe you can elaborate for me on why you would call out lefitist anti-semitism as a reason for our uproar in the same post where youre agreeing with our uproar?

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

i read it just fine. maybe you can elaborate for me on why you would call out lefitist anti-semitism as a reason for our uproar in the same post where youre agreeing with our uproar?

Because I am not in an uproar over it like yinz were? Yinz were all like omg censor Israel wrongdoings blah blah blah or some stupid crap.

I said it was odd for the reasons it actually was odd.

Again, you didn't read it just fine. You either didn't read it or you couldn't comprehend what you read.

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Did you ever think when almost everybody on this board keeps "not comprehending" your posts, maybe it's not everybody else that's the problem, and maybe instead it's that your posts don't properly convey what you think they do?

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HashtagSEP posted...

Did you ever think when almost everybody on this board keeps "not comprehending" your posts, maybe it's not everybody else that's the problem, and maybe instead it's that your posts don't properly convey what you think they do?

It is spelled out so that a 5 year old could figure it out. Stop looking for got 'ems and start reading. It will pay off with your comprehension.

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"all my posts are perfect and everyone in this topic is unable to read, 5 years old and an idiot." - corrik

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Corrik7 posted...

Because I am not in an uproar over it like yinz were? Yinz were all like omg censor Israel wrongdoings blah blah blah or some stupid crap.

Is this because you dont care about that, or because you didnt come to that conclusion
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/11/us/death-penalty-family-plea-daniel-lewis-lee/index.html

Where do we all stand on a situation like this? I expect it might not break down along usual ideological lines
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Im of the mindset that it professionals believe he has been sufficiently rehabilitated, he should be set free, but thats not an option here really
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/11/us/death-penalty-family-plea-daniel-lewis-lee/index.html

Where do we all stand on a situation like this? I expect it might not break down along usual ideological lines

The law has spoken. There isn't much to debate regarding it.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Im of the mindset that it professionals believe he has been sufficiently rehabilitated, he should be set free, but thats not an option here really

I agree with most of this. The death penalty is wrong. Rehab + release should be the goal. But in the absence of a better system, life in prison is currently the only valid alternative. It's a lesser injustice but until the entire system is reformed it's all we can do. And even in a reformed system, some people are beyond rehab and will serve life sentences anyways.

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Corrik7 posted...

Because I am not in an uproar over it like yinz were? Yinz were all like omg censor Israel wrongdoings blah blah blah or some stupid crap.

I said it was odd for the reasons it actually was odd.

Again, you didn't read it just fine. You either didn't read it or you couldn't comprehend what you read.

do you not see that calling our objections stupid crap comes across as defending Trumps decision? were like this thing is bad and youre like yinz is antisemitic its just odd. Your minor criticism of it is overshadowed by your major criticism of our criticism.

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Corrik7 posted...

The law has spoken. There isn't much to debate regarding it.

Bull. Shit.

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Im against the death penalty, but am very in favor of long sentences for things like rape/murder. I have no issue with this guy sitting in a jail cell for the rest of his life.

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On a related note, Im very skeptical that most rapists/child molesters can be rehabilitated. My basic feeling is that if they made the choice to do it once, the publics safety is more important than their freedom.

I feel similarly about murderers except I think theyre generally less likely to do it again (even if murder is worse).

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I am opposed to the death penalty for religious reasons. Everyone deserves the chance to repent for their misdeeds and it isn't our place to determine when people die. And if even one person has been wrongfully executed in the history of our justice system that would be one person too many.

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Jakyl25 posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/11/us/death-penalty-family-plea-daniel-lewis-lee/index.html

I read this as Daniel Day-Lewis and was very upset thanks a lot jakyl

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

do you not see that calling our objections stupid crap comes across as defending Trumps decision? were like this thing is bad and youre like yinz is antisemitic its just odd. Your minor criticism of it is overshadowed by your major criticism of our criticism.

It is pretty laid out. It has good intentions but it is an odd way to go about it. Almost word for word recounting it at this point.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

I am opposed to the death penalty for religious reasons. Everyone deserves the chance to repent for their misdeeds and it isn't our place to determine when people die. And if even one person has been wrongfully executed in the history of our justice system that would be one person too many.

So, it was his place to decide when they died, but not societies to say when his should die as a collective.

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Corrik7 posted...

So, it was his place to decide when they died, but not societies to say when his should die as a collective.

It was not his place no.

I'm not sure how you made that leap.

Or you think because he did a bad thing that society should follow suit?

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Several reasons to oppose the death penalty:

1. Innocent people have been executed
2. Its more expensive than life in prison
3. Ultimately, its about who we are. Most people getting handed the death penalty are monsters, but that doesnt mean we have to make ourselves killers, too. Life in prison protects the public just as well.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

On a related note, Im very skeptical that most rapists/child molesters can be rehabilitated.

Other countries seem to do a lot better with rehab.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Or you think because he did a bad thing that society should follow suit?

Society is judging him for his atrocities and deciding the best course of how to deal with what has been done. It is judgment of how best to serve society and justice for those who were wronged.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Other countries seem to do a lot better with rehab.

For sex crimes?

I agree that our prison system is garbage and focuses too much on being punitive rather than rehabilitation, and I absolutely think that people convicted of selling drugs or theft or whatever can be rehabilitated, but afaik sex crime recidivism is very high.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Several reasons to oppose the death penalty:

1. Innocent people have been executed
2. Its more expensive than life in prison
3. Ultimately, its about who we are. Most people getting handed the death penalty are monsters, but that doesnt mean we have to make ourselves killers, too. Life in prison protects the public just as well.

The arguments for the death penalty are not rational. But neither is the human condition.

Knowing that bad people receive the same ultimate punishment for their crimes makes many people feel better. And it's up to those people (via their representatives) to collectively decide that the death penalty is right.

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Personally, I am for the death penalty for murder, rape, child molestation, and deleting emails.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

On a related note, Im very skeptical that most rapists/child molesters can be rehabilitated. My basic feeling is that if they made the choice to do it once, the publics safety is more important than their freedom.

I feel similarly about murderers except I think theyre generally less likely to do it again (even if murder is worse).

Maybe not most, but I believe there's a good chunk that can be rehabilitated so it's necessary to try.

In my head there's two problems though: I dont think we have a great understanding of how to effectively rehab these people, and our justice system is already bad at delivering justice for crimes like rape so that has to be corrected first.

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Corrik7 posted...

Society is judging him for his atrocities and deciding the best course of how to deal with what has been done. It is judgment of how best to serve society and justice for those who were wronged.

I understand that's how the system is (currently) designed to work.

I disagree with it and was explaining my disagreement.

Also in this case it literally does not represent justice for the person wronged.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Personally, I am for the death penalty for murder, rape, child molestation, and deleting emails.

I laughed.

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Corrik7 posted...

It is judgment of how best to serve society and justice for those who were wronged.

Did you even read the article? All the family members of the victims, the prosecutor, and the judge on his case want him to live
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Maybe not most, but I believe there's a good chunk that can be rehabilitated so it's necessary to try.

In my head there's two problems though: I dont think we have a great understanding of how to effectively rehab these people, and our justice system is already bad at delivering justice for crimes like rape so that has to be corrected first.

We cant even TALK about the condition of being a pedophile without people demanding anyone with an attraction to children be put down. Its very difficult to advocate for non-offending pedophile rights and rehabilitation; I cant even imagine how hard it would be to argue for those that HAVE offended
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it's as if none of you have talked to lawful stupid corrik before

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I refuse to believe he just made a big deal about people not reading and then didnt read. That doesnt sound like him.

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Corrik7 posted...

It is pretty laid out. It has good intentions but it is an odd way to go about it. Almost word for word recounting it at this point.

ok so the start of this was Tony saying you defended it

you just now, in this post I am quoting, say it has good intentions

we were saying its intentions were bad (to silence criticism of Israel, not to combat antisemitism)

so you saying it had good intentions is defending it

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Jakyl25 posted...

Did you even read the article? All the family members of the victims, the prosecutor, and the judge on his case want him to live

That's not how the law works. (Pretty sure it said not all family members agreed with the woman who said she wanted him to live though). "Not everyone in the family agrees with her, but Peterson wants Lee to spend his life in prison instead of dying early. She came to the decision, she said, after prayer, soul-searching, and "honest gut thinking."

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So you think it is righteous that this man is executed after 20 nonviolent years in prison when the only reason the feds said he needed to be executed was that he would be a danger to others in prison.

Just because people who technically have jurisdiction over the sentencing believed it to be true in 1999
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Jakyl25 posted...

We cant even TALK about the condition of being a pedophile without people demanding anyone with an attraction to children be put down. Its very difficult to advocate for non-offending pedophile rights and rehabilitation; I cant even imagine how hard it would be to argue for those that HAVE offended

Yeah I think rehabilitation for the most violent and sociopathic criminals is a long way off and maybe even impossible from a practical and social perspective. But there are tons of reforms that will work towards it in the meantime that are much easier for people to accept. Rehab and reducing sentences for nonviolent/drug offenses and better prison conditions are easier to sell, even to conservatives (as long as felons can't vote, apparently, which is another issue).

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Jakyl25 posted...

So you think it is righteous that this man is executed after 20 nonviolent years in prison when the only reason the feds said he needed to be executed was that he would be a danger to others in prison.

Just because people who technically have jurisdiction over the sentencing believed it to be true in 1999

Should have probably been executed a long time ago, but his crimes were measured, deemed worthy of death, and it should be carried out as so. It is sad you are defending someone who allegedly even did what he did and was found guilty of it in a court of law (and exhausted all appeals regarding it).

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His crimes werent deemed worthy of death though, just his potential threat if put into a prison population, a threat that hasnt materialized

Thats evident by the other guy who committed the crime alongside him not being sentenced to death.
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Also you dont have to say allegedly after a conviction, especially when everyone agrees he committed the crime
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