Board 8 > Umineko playthrough topic 4

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's not enough to figure out the Danshui river, or the Danshui line, you have to pinpoint that there was a station called in 1986 which was once called before 1955 which happens to have the character in it which means village in and the character which means shore in Japanese, and then it can also be written as so there are two mouths to tell, and then...

Even Japanese people is going to have a lot of trouble in this, let alone Western players. Props to those who got anywhere even close.

And now you have to understand Chinese as well because it's pronounced Qilian

This part's translation is completely different.

English: 10 twilights. 4 treasures. 10 to the power 4 is 10000. Raise it to the power 4 again, it is 10 to the power 16. Divided by 10, it is 10 to the power 15. Quadrillion.

Japanese: Golden Land. . pronounced same as in Japanese (kyo). is 10 to the power 16. Divided by 10, it is , or 10 to the power 15. Quadrillion again.

You go through a different process depending on the language, but the end result is the same. They really put in a lot of thought in translating the epitaph.

Raka_Putra posted...

I find it useful to think about it the other way around: what would Shannon do if Battler came back in 1985? And what would she do if he came back in 1987?

In 1987, she would have quit her job and married George, so she wouldnt be on the island to begin with.
In 1985, Im not so sure. Maybe she wasnt that committed to George yet, or George has yet to ask for marriage, and she could have fixed her relationship with Battler.

Quadrillion - Qilian is...
u d r l o
Kuwadorian? It looks kinda similar.
The room with all the gold should be in Kuwadorian

For the 2nd twilight, I have no idea that there is some sort of device at the chapel. However as a reader only those 5 letters matter.
The 3rd twilight. Noble name... I think you are supposed to rearrange the letters. It should be 'l o r d u', standing for Lord Ushiromiya. Or 'u l o r d'.

It IS 'l o r d u'. The rest of the epitaph should be removing those letters in the correct order then.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Kuwadorian? It looks kinda similar.

Yes, this is almost certainly a pun/hint (since you aren't told the exact wording of the chapel inscription until EP4).

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Thought I'd do a brief summary on the epitaph.

1. Taiwan. You have to figure that out from Natsuhi's flashback on her honeymoon in Episode 5, at the time I didn't think that scene was important at all. 'Areca nuts' and 'some Asian country' help narrow it down, but a number countries fit the bill. I think you also need to know that Taiwan was once a Japanese colony from 1895 to 1945 (making it possible for it to be Kinzo's hometown).
2. Damshui (freshwater river). I did get that, but not until Beatrice mentioned 6 major rivers of Taiwan.
3. The Damshui Line. I couldn't imagine railways 'flowing' and got stuck.
4. . If I looked at a map of the Damshui Line, and got the Japanese version of the epitaph, then maybe I could get to in a week.
5. Quadrillion. I wouldn't get this in a thousand years whatever language it is in. Qilian is a simple Chinese translation but I wouldn't know what to do with it without quadrillion.
6. The rest is rather straightforward. Although, you don't have to solve anything beyond the 3rd twilight, which would confuse those who got this far.

Overall the first step is the hardest. Once you get past that barrier I feel you have a good chance of reaching the end.

it's cool that you actually have some personal experience with parts of the epitaph

Genji says that Shannon/Beatrice finding the gold must be fate

Well no. Genji went ahead and told her about Taiwan, the biggest hint of them all. If Shannon was smart enough and cared enough (which she was), it will only be a matter time before she found the answer. Though to be fair, it would be impossble for her to solve it otherwise; she didnt get a Natsuhi flashback, and wasnt in a position to know much about Kinzos past.

'Taiwan' is a bit cheaty from an in-universe perspective. Shannon could definitely know Kinzo grew up in Taiwan, because he would happily tell anyone about it who would listen. Most everyone who lives or has lived with Kinzo knows, but it's such common knowledge that they forget to inform the reader.

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Sceptilesolar posted...

'Taiwan' is a bit cheaty from an in-universe perspective. Shannon could definitely know Kinzo grew up in Taiwan, because he would happily tell anyone about it who would listen. Most everyone who lives or has lived with Kinzo knows, but it's such common knowledge that they forget to inform the reader.

I had assumed Kinzo never told his children about his early life, before he was picked as family head and moved to Odawara. The family didn't mention Taiwan in any of their discussions about the epitaph.

Didn't expect Shannon to meet Kinzo and directly told she is his child. If she found that out from another source, or that Kinzo had died before she solved the epitaph, then it could have something to do with the murder motive.

And then Kinzo died instantly. I would say Shannon did the sensible thing by not taking the Headship or the gold, but looking at the 1986 murders, maybe it was a mistake after all?

Also, Genji/Kumasawa/Nanjo are now possible accomplices for the murders

Now that Shannon/Beatrice's story is done, I still don't understand her motive.

I have a theory, but don't feel confident about it: Shannon, knowing her origins, would also know that she was blood-related to Battler (or George). She decided to ignore it. Nothing happened in 1985. In 1986, Battler came back, and was involved in solving the epitaph with the family, which risked exposing Shannon's identity, which would prevent her from being with the one she loved, so she felt she had to do away with the family to avoid that and other complications.

Beatrice is going through all the murders from her games, and Will gives a very vague answer or hint. I considered having another go and solving those... but that would require me to analyze Will's quotes, look back at all the murder scenes, and check all the red truths, and I do not have the time or patience for that.

Oh come on, they still won't say that Beatrice = Shannon. I'm sure I'm right, just want a confirmation here...

This episode (main part) ended on a very positive note. This can only happen with a probability of 1/200000 -ish.
As for the other 199999/200000, they're all dead. There's no way around it. All of that about Battler wanting to go home or save everyone, I don't think it's happening.

The Tea Party starts with Lion being transported to the theater. Shit, I thought her story is over, you can't have nice things in Umineko.
Ange is also here. Now this is a meeting I never thought would happen. Great to see her back again.

Didn't Bern say she will find a world where Ange's family would not die and come back? That would be Lion's world, is this why there are meeting now? So Bern did keep the promise.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Beatrice is going through all the murders from her games, and Will gives a very vague answer or hint. I considered having another go and solving those... but that would require me to analyze Will's quotes, look back at all the murder scenes, and check all the red truths, and I do not have the time or patience for that.

The manga adaptation of this scene actually made all the solutions very clear. You should look into that if solving the murders intrigues you.

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We're back to Oct 4 1986. Looks like there is a game after all. Maybe it's a very speedy game, Tea Parties can't be that long.
First of all, the letter to the family. Clearly it is not an attempt to get the gold, because the culprit has already done it around 2 years ago. Why make them attempt the epitaph then? And why kill them if they didn't solve it?

Battler might have remembered that conversation, but he never thought it was important.

They all knew about Taiwan. Surely someone, especially Eva, who just reached 'Qilian' pretty much by herself, could have made some headway long ago. Not saying it's impossible for Shannon to be first, but it is much more likely that Eva would get there quicker, and Kinzo acts as if none of the family could possibly solve it,

They found the gold, this should mean no one would die right?
The atmosphere is kind of ominous. Eva might claim she is the one who did the most in finding the gold, Krauss would say he is the Successor, Rudolf could say he did the physical work...
If a fight starts over how to divide the gold, the bars could be used to bludgeon someone to death...

Really think this isn't going to end happily, because that is supposedly exclusive to Lion's world

There are 4 rifles. One for 'Beatrice', and one each for Genji, Nanjo, Kumasawa who knew the secret.
Or one for each Ushiromiya sibling now.

Is Shannon-Beatrice some hidden genius to have calculated all possibilities of her plan?
Each of her games are one such possible outcome. I think there won't be a 'true' version of what occurred on Oct 4 1986. Everything is up to personal interpretations, and this is why everyone could know the 'truth' and 'be witches', as said in episode 6

There are tons of explosives on the island. Have they ever been detonated in the previous games?
1st game - don't think so, as bodies were discovered and the mansion still stands
2nd game - maybe 'eaten by demons' meant they blew up
3rd game - most likely not, otherwise Ange would have mentioned it

4th game -
'You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. Yet I am here, now, and will kill you.'
Yes, this is definitely a way to kill Battler even if the culprit is dead.

Someone comes up and say 'I was planning to kill you all, but I am not going to now. Oh and here's a switch that is going to destroy half the island, but I just turned it off!' can't blame the family for being so suspicious.
They're going to blow up aren't they.

They didn't die. This is a surprise.
Beatrice doing the countdown is like taunting the family and goading Eva to touch the switch.

Having them kill each other instead of dying in a explosion makes more sense from a storytelling perspective. Gotta keep emphasizing 'HUMANS ARE SO GREEDY'

Placing 4 guns in front of the family along with the gold, and telling them about the explosion device, which resulted in 6 deaths for the 1st twilight... I know Beatrice won't do that, but it's as if she planned it all out by giving the family the tools for murder and maximized the chances that they kill one another.

What the heck, how did they even not check the bodies, that's the biggest mistake a murderer would ever make. No, how did Kyrie even manage to miss from such a short distance?

Waaaay back in episode 1, I had envisioned this to be a huge murder mystery where there is a main culprit slowly killing people on the island across 8 episodes. In the middle of it, some family members would also murder one another.

Well after 7 episodes, I finally get to see it directly, without any tricks or illusions.

For the longest time, I had labelled Eva as the worst of the bunch. That title now clearly belongs Kyrie: morally speaking, I can't think of anything redeemable about her. Eva might have a lot of faults but at least she truly cares about her immediate family; Kyrie views about Ange were reprehensible.

That said. Bit rich for Eva to comment on how Kyrie mistreated Ange.

Oh yeah, about Eva, Evatrice should be a representation of Eva's 'evil side', and Eva likely did commit some the murders in episode 3

Kyrie, who is good with guns and a seasoned killer, missed Eva again and got killed instead. Sure, why not.
Whoever is showing this game has to be fucking with Ange, wonder how she is going to react.

Also wonder how Dels who had Kyrie ranked high for so long felt about this

Of course what Kyrie said could be a total lie from the game master, don't think that's the case though, the pieces always act according their real personalities

That was the truth of 1986. In the world that Ange came from, that is.
I had always thought episode 3 as Beatrice's way of portraying one of the possibilities that led to Eva's survival. The magic and witches are all illusions, but the order and locations of their deaths are real.
Come to think of it now... it is strange that they keep referring it to an accident, one look at their bodies and you can tell they were murdered. So episode 3 should be a fabrication of Beatrice, or another world where Eva survived but did not lead to Ange's world.

That would also mean that Beatrice had never managed to execute her plan, and that she hadn't killed anyone at all.

What does 'truth' exactly mean in this context? If there is only one single truth - that the Ushiromiya family killed each other leaving only Eva - then all of the games are fabrications.
But I'm much more inclined to believe multiple Fragments/worlds/universes, which was proven by the existence of Lion, and that the games are all distinct possibilities. There are multiple truths, and most of the time the family won't kill each other.

I should calm down a bit. Bernkatsel didn't finish her red truth, it could be a play on words.
Even if it's the truth, is it the truth behind in world Ange comes from? Maybe it is a world where Eva survived, but not the same as Ange's world. She didn't get to see what happens next after Eva killed Kyrie, I'm not even sure if Eva survives this one, where did Battler go?

Should have known Lion's world is too good to be true. Umineko is such a depressing game.

Amid all my theories and confusion, I can say one thing with certainty.
Fuck Bernkatsel.

-Kinzo wanted to steal the Italian gold?
-Something about Beatrice being saved and becoming 'furniture'

Apparently, a part of the story was a lie, or was untold.

It's hard to see Will and Lion escaping, but they had some brave quotes and then a cliffhanger... could they?
Think they will come back one way or another. It would be a crime to end their story right here.

Evil witch doing evil things again, this is so predictable, yawn. And this yet another FINAL game master and FINAL game. I feel like I have gone through a few of these 'final's. (obviously episode 8 is really the final but you know what I mean).

Bern in red 'I won't let this have a happy ending'. Just because you won't let it doesn't mean it can't happen.
Battler has a final game too, yikes. 'It's not a sad or painful' sorry, I don't consider a story where people get killed not sad or painful.

That's episode 7 done with! It was a great use of my Christmas holidays.
I will start episode 8 in around 2 weeks time because I have a vacation coming up.

Wish you all a happy new year.

Alright, that's a good place to stop for now.

Happy new year!

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In the mean time, you should probably think over some things that have been seemed strange, particularly over the past couple episodes, and try to use what you know now to put additional things together.

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I'll think a bit but it's hard to remember every detail.

First off. Kumasawa's and Nanjo's relatives told Ange in episode 4 they received a lot of money. This is compensation for Kumasawa and Nanjo's deaths on the island, and their role in protecting and raising Beatrice/Shannon.

It is less clear why she gave money to Ange, because that would mean she had predicted Ange wouldn't be coming to the family conference, or prepared money for everyone in case they survived... it would be difficult for her to have it arranged in a single day.

There's also a certain scene that has been bothering me.

After Shannon found out Battler forgot about the promise, Beatrice offered to take her feelings to bear her pain. I understood that.

What I'm concerned with here is that Beatrice also said she would give her a little brother, and also made a backstory about him, like being close to Shannon in the orphanage, allowed to serve Kinzo directly, etc. At that time, I thought this was because Shannon had heard about this new servant and already knew all about him, but it's certainly convenient that Kanon would come the very next day after she got sad about Battler's letters... hmm...