Board 8 > Umineko playthrough topic 4

(+) Yeah! (+)

For all my hate towards Erika, she does have a memorable death (or is she???). So ends episode 6.

Few points I'm still wondering about
-Beatrice saved Battler by loving him? Is this really it?
-What's with Beatrice's heart, is Beatrice going to die from this? Their conversation implies it
-Whatever happened to the Gold Truth

Will finish off the Tea Part and ??? tomorrow.

Sayaka Ohara voices both, yes.

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They get married. Still feels weird to me after episodes 1-4.
So much for the Kanon losing his duel and being locked up for eternity, he's back and got to become a human.
'George needs to be asleep by 7:00' what a fucked up schedule.
Everyone gets a happy ending. Hooray. Nothing wrong will ever happen again, the last 2 episodes will be all sunshine and rainbows...

Magic are all tricks and illusions though, and it's still not clear what really happened on the island except they all died. And being all dead isn't much of a happy ending.
Maybe I'll never know. Or this episode is only Hacijo's fanfiction. Multiple truths and all that.

A lot of strangeness around the meeting. Is it simply Ange reading Hachijo's story as one 'truth' of Rokkenjima? I feel it's way too easy to be true.

It's a conspiracy to kill Sumadera and the bodyguards. This would explain how they all died on Rokkenjima then.
Wait, they want Ange gone as well. And this supposedly takes place before Ange went to the island. If I interpret 'Ange cut up by witches in episode 4' as 'Ange being killed by Amakusa along with the bodyguards', then she is dead for good in the 1998 human world. Please no.

Featherine must be something else if Bernkatsel calls her a monster.
'Mysterious witch turns out to be evil' is getting a bit repetitive. It would be more of a surprise if that didn't happen.
Did Bern usurp the position of game master like that? That's a way too face-paced and out of nowhere development...

Another episode done!
This time I lm going to keep my thoughts and rankings short. Doing write ups for 30+ characters is exhausting, and I want to get started with episode 7 within the next few days.

Character Rankings after episode 6
(and comparison with last time)

35. Bernkatsel (-4)
34. Evatrice (-4)
33. Chiester Sisters (-4)
32. Kinzo (-4)
31. Nanjo (-6)
30. Genji (-8)
29. Gohda (-9)
28. Seven sisters of purgatory (-1)
27. Erika (-3)
26. Maria (-3)
25. Amakusa (new)
24. Cornelia and Gertrude (new)
23. Zepar and Furfur (new)
22. Sakutarou (-3)
21. Featherine/Hachijo (new)
20. Kumasawa (+6)
19. Kanon (+2)
18. Krauss (-4)
17. Shannon (-2)
16. Gaap (+1)
15. Hideoyoshi (-5)
14. Lambdadelta (+4)
13. Jessica (-5)
12. George (+1)
11. Virgilia (+5)
10. Rudolf (-3)
9. Rosa (+3)
8. Eva (+3)
7. Kyrie (-1)
6. Battler (-2)
5. Ronove (-3)
4. Ange (+5)
3. Beatrice (+2)
2. Dlanor (+1)
1. Natsuhi (0)

It looks like a lot of them have gone down, that's because I've added a couple more characters. Overall that aren't significant changes.

Will provide a short write up if you request a character.

Doing this the same way as last time.

+ Useful hints and information about the entire game that got me thinking
+ Ange comes back
+ Higher stakes and felt more like a fair game
+ Some cool battles again
+ Nice emotional moments

- Bernkatsel and Erika are still annoying
- Battler is such a complete dunce that it frustrates me to no end
- Ange isn't used as the same way as I had hoped
- Part of the plot (Erika beating Battler and Beatrice beating Erika) is very predictable

Liked this episode better than the last.

3 > 4 >> 6 >> 5 > 1 >>>>> 2

Starting to think that Battler's 'sin' and the reason of this happening has a lot to do with his parentage.

-He committed the sin 6 years ago
-Asumu died 6 years ago
-Battler is not Asumu's son, I guessed he is actually Kyrie's son
-Rudolf keeps saying he wanted to reveal it to Battler
-I never saw Asumu's face
-It must be something very important to be hidden this late into the story

On to episode 7. I hope there are going to be real answers.

Beatrice is dead?

There's a new guy. We're getting yet more characters in episode 7. His clothes aren't ridiculous at least.

'Willard H Wright'
It's another of those people from Heaven. Umineko has a whole universe of angels and demons and witches and I am shown bits and pieces of it. Seems a pretty cool person? His hair colour's the same as Battler's

Must be awkward to be mourning the witch that killed most to all of the family multiple times over.
Why is the family here? Are they dead or alive? Is this real or not? Please give me answers soon.

Krauss and Natsuhi got another child out of thin air. Ok, this can't be real. Is this a part of the 7th game?

This is a strange set-up. Beatrice was killed, there's another family member, and some outsider is here to solve the case. Does Battler even know he isn't the game master anymore?
The first 4 games are all similar with Beatrice as the game master. Since the answer arcs began though we get a different game master/theme, never know what to expect this time. For instance will there still be a family conference and people getting murdered??

forgive me if i'm overstepping here, but didn't episode 6 end with a really big line? i feel like you didn't mention it or discuss it, unless i'm blind and missed it.

When the seagulls cried, none were left alive
Is this the one?
Didnt think too much into this line.

I think he meant the episode itself, before the Tea Party started.

---

I went back at checked.

So at first I thought there were 17 humans (Kinzo is dead after all) on Rokkenjima, and adding Erika makes 18, and since they killed Erika it is back to 17.

But I appear to have misunderstood because they said 'Even if you join us all that's only 17' meaning there are 16 without Erika...

I'm keeping this in mind but I don't want to waste too much time here. Moving on.

This 7th game feels very disconnected from the rest. Before that it is obvious the games are progressing one after another with Battler at the center. This one should be after the 6th but... what is Battler up to really? Does he want to go home at all? Is he still the protagonist? What is going to happen to everyone, are they stuck in this strange world forever?

Kinzo is still alive.
Battler - the human Battler, god knows what the 'game master Battler' is doing - isn't coming to the conference.
Everyone is fine with Lion being the Successor (why is she dressed like some butler?)
This is all very strange

Rosa's meeting with Beatrice... let's see... this was in episode 3, and happened when Rosa was a child. Took them long enough to hold a funeral.
Did Beatrice die from the fall in the first place...?

And it looks like there is finally going to be answers in this episode. Battler knows the truth, so he wouldn't be asking questions and investigating slowly the find it; that's why Will and Lion exist.

'Theatergoing authority'
I should have realized in episode 6 with Featherine, that's why that other topic was called the 'Theatergoing topic'.

Well, Theatregoing. I am used to it being spelt 'Theatre'. But Umineko uses Theater.

This is a world created by Bernkatsel for the sole purpose of solving this mystery. She can do this but made Will do the solving. That clears up a whole lot of my confusion from earlier. And somehow, Shannon is self-aware but Kanon is not.

Never mind Kanon also doesn't know Lion

Lots of Beatrices around here. Almost forgot about the one that gave Kinzo gold.
The 1st one should be Kinzo's mistress who died long time ago, the 2nd one should be his bastard who also died from the fall, and the later ones were fabrications from rumors spread by people. That's easy to understand, it's the later parts that get confusing.

The Beatrice that lived in Kuwadorian thought Kinzo as a 'Father' - no, she was really her daughter - but Kinzo thought she is Beatrice reborn. He is raising his daughter to become his waifu. It's straight up (attempted) incest. Wow. It's also the same situation with Battler and Beatrice in the beginning of episode 6, not sure what significance this holds.

It took a long time, but this is actually an 'answers arc'. This pre-1986 stuff is straightforward so far, can't wait for the crazier answers.

Is this whole episode going to be Will and Lion standing around in the chapel and asking questions.
I don't mind it that much but... this won't make a particularly exciting episode.

<I speak English> says Beatrice, who proceeds to talk with Kinzo in what is clearly Japanese.
Someday, I might hear Japanese VAs speak some decent English. That day might never come, who knows.

The whole understand tunnels and structure is a WW2 submarine base. Don't think you can easily reason that out from the earlier episodes.

Guessing right now that the Beatrice's father brought the entire Italian gold reserve to hide in Japan, and Kinzo got his hands on it later.

Oh boy, it's always a doozy when people see Lion and Will for the first time.


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Raka_Putra posted...

Oh boy, it's always a doozy when people see Lion and Will for the first time.

I like them quite a lot. But it feels they're here as plot devices so that I don't get to see what's happening with Battler.

Right now it's more like an action movie than mystery. And it's still about the young Kinzo. This is going to be a long episode.

The murders in 1986 had to be done by someone invoking the legend and image of Beatrice. The people who know the full story of Beatrice include Kinzo, Nanjo, Kumasawa, Genji. Rosa saw the daughter Beatrice but didn't know much else. Anyway, it is not absolutely necessary to get the full picture to commit the murders, so it doesn't help me narrow down the suspects.

I also thought about the epitaph. Can't remember much, but the 'homeland' or 'hometown' should refer to Rokkenjima, the place where he met Beatrice.

I find it hard to believe that Kinzo could single-handedly hide 10 tons of gold on the island before he bought it and the military didn't find a trace of it when incident gets investigated. Even if they don't know the gold exists.

And it turns out the Ushiromiya family crest was derived from Italian fascist symbolism...

They're going to talk to Maria on how she met Beatrice when both Beatrices are supposed to be dead.
I actually might have an answer to this. Anyone in the family would have known what Beatrice looks like thanks to the portrait. They could have dressed up as Beatrice and did some tricks for Maria. I think.... Rosa was the one who did that, I couldn't imagine anyone else able and willing to do this sort of thing.

Maria interpreted some Christian teachings to mean that her father was the Holy Ghost.
This is like... Maria being the daughter of God, the 2nd coming of Christ.
It's Christmas Eve right now. Coincidence? I THINK NOT

handsomeboy2012 posted...

They're going to talk to Maria on how she met Beatrice when both Beatrices are supposed to be dead.
I actually might have an answer to this. Anyone in the family would have known what Beatrice looks like thanks to the portrait. They could have dressed up as Beatrice and did some tricks for Maria. I think.... Rosa was the one who did that, I couldn't imagine anyone else able and willing to do this sort of thing.

Thinking more about it, that person might deceive Maria if they thought to make use of her to read letters when the murders start. It might not be Rosa after all/

Telling Maria about her 'lost power', and how it will take a long time to return.
That anti-magic toxin is probably some excuse this 'Beatrice' made up.
Seems like the culprit had been planning for a long time.
It's hard to imagine Rosa doing this now - she doesn't want Maria to believe in magic.

Maria was told to wash her hands and rinse her mouth as a promise to Beatrice.
Ok, nevermind what I said. This is definitely Rosa cosplaying.
She might be complicit in the murders. Or someone else found out and made use of Maria's belief in Beatrice.

My theory about Beatrice being whatever her believers think her to be is more or less correct. It wasn't until episode 6 that I had this idea, but it's something.

Let's say the 'ruler of Rokkenjima' Beatrice was created for the purpose of carrying out the murders some time in the future. This would mean Nanjo, Shannon, Kanon, Kumasawa were all in the plan. Rosa too if she really the one disguising as Beatrice. Uhh... so many people being the culprit or accomplices doesn't seem right. Might be premature to say 'Beatrice appearing to Maria' = 'Beatrice used for murder'.

It wasn't revealed who was pretending to be Beatrice.
Rosa being the one would also have the problem of her meeting Beatrice in episode 2. However, I think anything shown about 'that day in 1986' - the main contents of Beatrice's games - are a whole different beast than what this episode covered so far and would take much more to understand (not simply tricks and illusions and disguises)

oh, I forgot to mention it when you actually finished Ep 6, but now is just as well of a time to mention it

"Battler intentionally threw the game and created the logic error to mastermind a situation where Beatrice would revive herself and rescue him" was a common theory (if not the outright dominant one) on the motive behind Battler's actions in Ep 6 when it was released. You commented a couple times it felt like this was the case, and you weren't the only one.

Attributing that motive to him also very strongly parallels him to the way Kinzo was portrayed throughout the first four episodes.

My entire basis for Battler doing this intentionally is 'he can't possibly be this stupid' because I couldn't pick up anything that suggested he was putting on a huge act.
So it is either he really was an idiot (which was more like his personality), or playing elaborate 4D chess (which is also likely because he knows everything).

The more I read I more I am sure the killings were planned long in advance, like feeding Maria's belief in the existence of a witch and Golden Land.
The motive is quite unclear though, the easy answer was it was for money and gold etc. but it is also related to how Battler committed some sort of sin...

handsomeboy2012 posted...

My entire basis for Battler doing this intentionally is 'he can't possibly be this stupid' because I couldn't pick up anything that suggested he was putting on a huge act.

There is literally a red truth calling him incompetent though...

Again with Beatrice 'exists'. Sure if you think thoughts, concepts, and intangibles can exist.
The servants have encountered signs of 'Beatrice', if someone is trying to trick the servants they have to be someone living or working there. Strangely they don't really try to make the resident family (Krauss, Natsuhi, Jessica) believe in Beatrice.

Reg posted...

There is literally a red truth calling him incompetent though...

I can't remember when that red truth happened. If it was said before episode 6 I could have taken it to mean 'Battler is incompetent in that very moment' or 'Battler is incompetent up until now' which can mean he has become less incompetent when he became the game master...
Anyway it will be a long time before the episode 6 gets brought up in-game again.

Didn't Shannon meet 'Beatrice' along with Maria before? And now she's acting as if she hadn't really met 'Beatrice' in person. Is something being done in the VIP room and whoever started the stories don't want anyone to go there?

This Jessica and VIP room incident is making the servants beyond suspicious. Is it to make Jessica believe in Beatrice's existence as well? Didn't really work that well though as she's not exactly convinced. Guess it did succeed in scaring her away from the VIP room and stopping her from prying too much.