Board 8 > ~~SephG's decennial "Best of" topic: the 2010s!~~

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mine is something like this I think:

25. Midsommar
24. Tucker & Dale vs. Evil
23. Enemy
22. Coherence
21. Red State
20. I Saw the Devil
19. Creep 2
18. Snowpiercer
17. Hanna
16. Hell or High Water
15. Dredd
14. Predestination
13. Get Out
12. The Guest
11. Nightcrawler
10. Blue Ruin
9. The Love Witch
8. Brawl on Cell Block 99
7. Bone Tomahawk
6. Blue Jasmine
5. Kill List
4. You're Next
3. The Endless
2. Whiplash
1. Resolution

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my favorite movie of the '10s is her.

i wouldn't put parasite and the irishman that high on a list like this because of recency bias but that's just me.

the force awakens would actually make my top 25, i think - not because it's a masterpiece but because i haven't seen all that many movies that came out this decade >_>
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

my favorite movie of the '10s is her.

i wouldn't put parasite and the irishman that high on a list like this because of recency bias but that's just me.

the force awakens would actually make my top 25, i think - not because it's a masterpiece but because i haven't seen all that many movies that came out this decade >_>

The Irishman may suffer from recency bias, but Parasite is absolutely my #2.

I need to rewatch the former when it's on Netflix.
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I haven't seen a lot of the most highly regarded movies of the decade, but my favorite film was definitely Mad Max: Fury Road. It's my favorite action movie of all time and the only film I can remember where I was on the edge of my seat from beginning to end.
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Oh shit I totally forgot about once upon a time in Hollywood. I definitely liked it more than Django, so it would make the top 20 at least.
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I haven't seen enough 2010s movies to feel comfortable posting a top 25, so I'll limit it to my top 10:

10. Gravity
9. Moonlight
8. The World's End
7. The Dark Knight Rises
6. Us
5. A Quiet Place (I'll never forget my experience watching this in a theater, though it might plunge on re-watch)
4. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
3. Embrace of the Serpent
2. John Wick
1. Get Out
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of what i have see in everyone's list

django unchained
hugo
wolf of wall street
coco
toy story 3
guardians of the galaxy
star wars 7
get out
dark knight rises

hard to pick one really. i feel like i could eliminate all of them for some reason or another.

seeing parasite this week tho! its run is almost done so ditching a friend to catch it before i can't. will probably check out burning over the weekend.
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Everyone I've compelled to watch parasite loved it. Even non-cinephiles!
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Music is up next. This one is going to be painful (to decide and to reflect on)

The 2010s was overall shitty for music
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

The 2010s was overall shitty for music

i will say plenty about music but yeah, this will probably be my conclusion as well. maybe not "shitty" but definitely "disappointing when i look at what my favorite bands/artists put out this decade."
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i mean i'm obviously going to say this but this decade was incredible for music. every modern decade is, too - more music is being created and made accessible now than ever and it's wild to me that anyone could think that quality levels don't essentially balance out over a ten year period

i feel like the only valid grounds for disagreeing with that are narrow tastes (decades can absolutely be bad for certain genres). in most cases it's just rooted in unwillingness/ignorance as to how to really find the good stuff, or generally waning interest in discovering new music as happens with age to most people

in principle I'd argue the same for film, literature, etc too, though admittedly i don't follow either obsessively enough to be confident in that assertion

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i'd say it depends on how you approach this decade for music. there definitely were plenty of albums i really liked, so in that sense it was a good decade. there just weren't that many albums i thought were masterpieces that i could see myself coming back to for years to come.

you definitely might be right about me having "narrow tastes," though. with a few exceptions, i despise all of the countless subgenres of metal, for instance.
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Book of Mormon debuted this decade

Also LMAO women's sports
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I could see that, especially when it comes to attributing "masterpiece" status. the most obvious caveat to everything i said is just subjectivity, and i've seen countless studies showing that most people treasure most the music they discovered in adolescence / early adulthood. I think i'm an outlier here, but I still find it difficult to shift my perceptions of my all-time favourites these days, even if I rarely reach for some of those albums.

that said, I've never failed to find at least one or two new "masterpieces" in any given year (this year i have 4!). I think i might have a little internal crisis if I did!


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Giggsalot posted...

i mean i'm obviously going to say this but this decade was incredible for music. every modern decade is, too - more music is being created and made accessible now than ever and it's wild to me that anyone could think that quality levels don't essentially balance out over a ten year period

i feel like the only valid grounds for disagreeing with that are narrow tastes (decades can absolutely be bad for certain genres). in most cases it's just rooted in unwillingness/ignorance as to how to really find the good stuff, or generally waning interest in discovering new music as happens with age to most people

in principle I'd argue the same for film, literature, etc too, though admittedly i don't follow either obsessively enough to be confident in that assertion

I'll get into it in a bit, but I definitely foresaw this counterpoint. I'm trying my very best to be objective, and not let the fact that I'm an old man now cloud my judgement, but I still come to the same conclusion!

I think much of this is due to the decreased emphasis on albums due to streaming. But we shall discuss.
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SavageInTheBox posted...

Book of Mormon debuted this decade

Also LMAO women's sports

I'm doing best musical next!
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

SavageInTheBox posted...

Book of Mormon debuted this decade

Also LMAO women's sports

I'm doing best musical next!

Oh hell yeah.
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Giggsalot posted...

i've seen countless studies showing that most people treasure most the music they discovered in adolescence / early adulthood.

yeah, simon frith claims that when people turn 35, they're going to start to bash the new music that's coming out. that's not what it's like for me, though. i still love new music, but for me there's just a lot of "good" music coming out and not too many masterpieces.

in fairness, i'm not 35 yet so who knows what will happen >_>
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As an old man, can confirm new music sucks
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

I think much of this is due to the decreased emphasis on albums due to streaming. But we shall discuss.

I've heard this a lot and find it weird. genuine question: what genres that were album-based are less so now? pop music has almost never been an album-based genre, and under the mainstream surface there are as many album-crafting auteurs in rock/hip-hop/jazz/etc as ever.

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Giggsalot posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I think much of this is due to the decreased emphasis on albums due to streaming. But we shall discuss.

I've heard this a lot and find it weird. genuine question: what genres that were album-based are less so now? pop music has almost never been an album-based genre, and under the mainstream surface there are as many album-crafting auteurs in rock/hip-hop/jazz/etc as ever.

You make a fair point. But I suppose my thesis really applies mostly to the artists that were so fundamental to the 2000s--the producers (particularly hip-hop producers). I can't prove this objectively, but 15 years ago you had the smartest music minds in the industry (imo) working behind the scenes with artists to produce really cohesive sounding LPs. But now due to streaming, the money is in these one-off hits. So you have these ultra-talented producers making radio songs instead of crafting more comprehensive records. I blame Pharrell Williams.
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i don't think hip hop is as album-based now as it used to be. post malone's albums (to name one of the biggest modern hip hop stars) sound way more like "playlists" (like drake's more life) than albums. there's absolutely no reason why track #1 is #1, #2 is #2, etc.

edit: and i get that you said "under the mainstream surface" but uh... mainstream hip hop is also a part of hip hop. like, back in the day a tribe called quest was mainstream and their music was very album-based. you can't just say "oh mainstream hip hop doesn't count."
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Is A Hidden Life in your plans for next month?

Mr Lasastryke posted...

i don't think hip hop is as album-based now as it used to be. post malone's albums (to name one of the biggest modern hip hop stars) sound way more like "playlists" (like drake's more life) than albums. there's absolutely no reason why track #1 is #1, #2 is #2, etc.

edit: and i get that you said "under the mainstream surface" but uh... mainstream hip hop is also a part of hip hop. like, back in the day a tribe called quest was mainstream and their music was very album-based. you can't just say "oh mainstream hip hop doesn't count."

You need to compare like with like here, comparing ATCQ and Post is silly.

Kendrick, J. Cole, Future, and many other hugely popular rappers now are also heavily album- (or project-) oriented artists like Quest were.

If you're gonna go back to the early 90s, Post Malone is analogous to the likes of Vanilla Ice or Kriss Kross - and no one remembers their albums either.

Nothing has changed.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

You make a fair point. But I suppose my thesis really applies mostly to the artists that were so fundamental to the 2000s--the producers (particularly hip-hop producers). I can't prove this objectively, but 15 years ago you had the smartest music minds in the industry (imo) working behind the scenes with artists to produce really cohesive sounding LPs. But now due to streaming, the money is in these one-off hits. So you have these ultra-talented producers making radio songs instead of crafting more comprehensive records. I blame Pharrell Williams.

I'd argue producers are more influential than ever in hip-hop in the trap era. People like Metro Boomin, Pierre Bourne and Kenny Beats are making sonically cohesive collaborative projects with rappers where the producers are the main draw. That never happened before this decade. Without being an asshole, it doesn't really sound like you guys are dialled in to the contemporary hip-hop landscape.

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I remember To The Extreme
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Giggsalot posted...

If you're gonna go back to the early 90s, Post Malone is analogous to the likes of Vanilla Ice or Kriss Kross

i've never listend to a vanilla ice or kriss kross album but i do think the whole "playlist" trend in hip hop is something more recent and was definitely inspired by streaming culture. i don't think sephy is entirely off-base here.

also, vanilla ice was a fucking joke rapper. you may not like post malone but to say he's "analogous to vanilla ice" really isn't fair. i wouldn't even know who the contemporary vanilla ice would be, i.e. a rapper with 0% talent who broke into the mainstream anyway. lil dicky?
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Torlovsk posted...

Is A Hidden Life in your plans for next month?

Terrence Malick is probably the most hit or miss director EVER for me. I have no idea what to expect from that dude.

But yeah, I'll still see it, haha.
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Giggsalot posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

You make a fair point. But I suppose my thesis really applies mostly to the artists that were so fundamental to the 2000s--the producers (particularly hip-hop producers). I can't prove this objectively, but 15 years ago you had the smartest music minds in the industry (imo) working behind the scenes with artists to produce really cohesive sounding LPs. But now due to streaming, the money is in these one-off hits. So you have these ultra-talented producers making radio songs instead of crafting more comprehensive records. I blame Pharrell Williams.

I'd argue producers are more influential than ever in hip-hop in the trap era. People like Metro Boomin, Pierre Bourne and Kenny Beats are making sonically cohesive collaborative projects with rappers where the producers are the main draw. That never happened before this decade. Without being an asshole, it doesn't really sound like you guys are dialled in to the contemporary hip-hop landscape.

You are correct that I'm not! But then again I've never truly gotten in too deep below the mainstream, even when I had all the time in the world to explore.

I guess it's like how I enjoy "mainstream" arthouse movies but I'll never watch super indie stuff that doesn't get wide releases. I just don't have the time.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

also, vanilla ice was a f***ing joke rapper. you may not like post malone but to say he's "analogous to vanilla ice" really isn't fair. i wouldn't even know who the contemporary vanilla ice would be, i.e. a rapper with 0% talent who broke into the mainstream anyway. lil dicky?

Macklemore
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There's no early 90's equivalent to Post because there was no sing-rap monogenre back then. It's a new sound.

But Post is barely a rapper and his music is pop first, R&B second and hip-hop a distant third. To hold him up as emblematic of modern rap is mad, and the only good comparison across eras can be to someone who was similarly outside of respective rap circles back then like the guys I mentioned.

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Giggs would it be fair for me to say that I just don't like the general sound that the plurality of music artists are taking in the 2010s?

I am totally with you that it's annoying when 30-somethings try to say that "music sucks now." But I look at the album/song of the decade lists in publications vis-a-vis the same lists from the 90s and 00s, and I just can't bring myself to say that they're equal.

FWIW I feel the same way about the 1970s (generally).

I'm sure you can always pull out exceptions but, hey, this is a topic where I am supposed to be making sweeping generalizations!
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Giggsalot posted...

But Post is barely a rapper and his music is pop first, R&B second and hip-hop a distant third. To hold him up as emblematic of modern rap is mad,

i'd say his music is hip hop (at least his first two albums). it's just modern trap/R&B-inspired hip hop. a lot of mainstream hip hop sounds like his stuff now.

for someone who attacks sephy and me for "not being dialled in to the contemporary hip hop landscape," you seem to have a surprisingly conservative view of what hip hop is. right now, you're kinda sounding like the people who went "LOL THAT'S NOT JAZZ" when miles went electric back in the day.
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jazz more like jizz
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Giggs would it be fair for me to say that I just don't like the general sound that the plurality of music artists are taking in the 2010s?

I am totally with you that it's annoying when 30-somethings try to say that "music sucks now." But I look at the album/song of the decade lists in publications vis-a-vis the same lists from the 90s and 00s, and I just can't bring myself to say that they're equal.

FWIW I feel the same way about the 1970s (generally).

I'm sure you can always pull out exceptions but, hey, this is a topic where I am supposed to be making sweeping generalizations!

Of course! All of this is subjective anyway, and I'm not a huge fan of the prevailing popular music trends of the decade either.

I do think everything's so crazily accessible these days that it's a slight irrelevence - you can almost always find what you want in 2019 somewhere - but I was never trying to stand here and say anyone's personal tastes were invalid.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i'd say his music is hip hop (at least his first two albums). it's just modern trap/R&B-inspired hip hop. a lot of mainstream hip hop sounds like his stuff now.

for someone who attacks sephy and me for "not being dialled in to the contemporary hip hop landscape," you seem to have a surprisingly conservative view of what hip hop is. right now, you're kinda sounding like the people who went "LOL THAT'S NOT JAZZ" when miles went electric back in the day.

I wasn't trying to attack anyone, sorry!

And I dunno, I actually don't dislike Post but for me what he's doing is as close to some bland pop like Maroon 5 as it is to Travis Scott or Young Thug.

P. S. Those guys might have had a point! I prefer electric Miles overall but On the Corner is basically a funk record and Jack Johnson always felt like blown out blues rock to me.

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Giggsalot posted...

I wasn't trying to attack anyone, sorry!

fair enough. for the record, i won't act like i'm a contemporary hip hop connoisseur - because i'm not - but i don't have to be, because the thing i was talking about was mainstream contemporary hip hop...? it just came across as a pointless jab, is all.

P. S. Those guys might have had a point! I prefer electric Miles overall but On the Corner is basically a funk record and Jack Johnson always felt like blown out blues rock to me.

well, jazz snobs were already saying that about him as early as the bitches brew era.

perhaps on the corner is not a pure jazz album, but i'd say it's definitely jazz fusion. to say it's a funk album completely devoid of any jazz influences is pretty ludicrous to me.
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Seeing the lighthouse tonight my dudes
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neonreaper posted...

jazz more like jizz

Believe it or not this is where the term 'jazz' actually derives, it's southern slang for jizzum

(I'll post more savory thoughts after class, lot to discuss to in this topic)

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I guess it's like how I enjoy "mainstream" arthouse movies but I'll never watch super indie stuff that doesn't get wide releases.

Hopefully Embrace of the Serpent being so high on my otherwise mainstream 2010s list is enough to get you to consider it at some point.
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I am intrigued
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Willem Dafoe is a fucking legend
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Btw I was lucky enough to see Jonathan Glazer's short film "The Fall" premiering before The Lighthouse. Really incredible.
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The winner of episode of the decade is hands-down the greatest episode in television history.

100%. I'll never forget watching part 8 the night it premiered, at first simply wondering if the Dougie plot was going to go anywhere and by the end realizing I had just seen the most significant hour of television in my life. And 5 minutes of it is literally NIN concert footage because Lynch doesn't give a fuck and I love it

BB is definitely a bit rote in S5, and yeah Gus has the best arc. My favorite episode is still "Grilled", so tense yet hilarious. It's like a Seinfeld dilemma except Jerry and Kramer have to shoot their way out of the awkward situation to save face.

For anyone born between roughly 1988 and 1992, this movie is like watching your entire life unfold before you in the span of 3 hours.

I'm an '89er so I guess Boyhood's goin' on the netflix list. Maybe that little boy was me all along :(

goddamn, parasite

wanna watch burning soon
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getting my ass kicked at work this week

maybe tomorrow we talk music
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I promise this will happen within 24 hours
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Best Music Artist/Band of the 2010s: Kanye West
Runners Up: Kendrick Lamar, Drake, Frank Ocean, James Murphy

If the decades were broken up differently, say from 2005-2014 instead of 2010-2019, Kanye West would have been a shoo-in for best artist. That time period encompasses Late Registration through Yeezus, in which Kanye ripped off what is probably the greatest stretch of critical and commercial success since The Beatles. However, the 2010s as it is currently delineated makes this decision a little harder.

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, Yeezus, and The Life of Pablo are all, at worst, near-masterpieces. They also represent the culmination of Ye's powers that he had been honing throughout the previous decade. He knew exactly what he wanted on all three of those records--and as much as people wanted to hate on them or dismiss them, you just couldn't. Kanye appeared poised for a clear-cut artist of the decade victory.

But then the rest of the 2010s happened. Since TLOP, Kanye has put out a variety of collaborations that never really hit the mark and some singles that were downright confusing. This all reached a creative nadir in the disappointingly short Ye, which was released in a series of six albums that he fully produced himself (which could have been a really cool concept, except most of those albums sucked). And now finally, at the latter half of 2019, we have Jesus Is King--an album full of so much potential, but is hamstrung by its overt Christian proselytizing.

So why am I still awarding Kanye West artist of the decade? Well, 2010-2016 was pretty unequivocal. He was the most gifted, most fascinating, and most prolific mainstream artist in the world at the top of his game. But the more important reason why I can't dock him much for the past 3 years: the 2010s have been really hard for album-oriented artists. I know Giggs will point to a million examples, as I am sure they exist; but for the music that I generally enjoy listening to, I am hard-pressed to point to many artists that have had consistent success across all ten years.

So that's perhaps a perfect segue into our runners up. Kendrick Lamar emerged in the 2010s as pretty much the paragon of rap--an MC with all of the right tools, focus, and generational voice to snatch the GOAT crown if he wanted to. And he may very well do that. Kendrick has 2 fantastic and one great album this decade, with no real sign of slowing down.

Frank Ocean is the R&B equivalent of Kendrick. He peaked his head into the scene around the same time on a few key featured tracks, and like Kendrick, then decided to do his own thing and made two stellar records in his own right, without worrying about getting singles in the top 40.

The top 40 king, however, is Drake. I have tried my hardest to dislike him ever since he was gifted the most talented producers in the world when he was like 20 years old. But god damn, you cannot deny this dude's talent. I don't say this lightly, but he is probably the most gifted pop song writer of my lifetime and has a knack for knowing exactly what will catch on at the right time.

And finally, James Murphy gets a shout out for being a behind-the-scenes sneakily important figure this decade. While LCD Soundsystem wasn't the phenomenon that is was in the 2000s, Murphy also played a major role in bringing in his minimalist electronic production as an era-defining sound--from his work on David Bowie's final album to helping Gorillaz evolve and stay somewhat relevant. You can hear his fingerprints on nearly everything in between, for better or worse.

Perhaps I'll save some more overall thoughts I had for the album and song posts, but I'd love to hear your thoughts about who I may have missed. Because, for my money, the 5 guys I listed above both defined the decade and put out its best and most consistent work.
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I think the work of Kendrick and Frank defines the decade better than Kanye's, but that's a pretty reasonable list. Assuming a mainstream focus I would probably replace LCD with Lana del Rey and/or Lorde (indie rock has had almost zero cultural significance this decade) and you probably need a trap rapper of some kind in there too - Future or Young Thug would be the most obvious choices.

If you blow this out to all genres and styles and ignore mainstream considerations that totally changes everything, but that also becomes a much longer post. Maybe later!

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I would like to ignore mainstream considerations, but even when I do, I have a hard time finding any artist/group that has consistently moved me over a full 10 years this decade. Most of that is probably my fault, admittedly.
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