Board 8 > Survivor: Island of the Idols Discussion Topic: 'Muricans Only!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Cold open = Lauren's gone
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odd season typhoon wasnt so bad this time around

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Noura just called a black man "oppressive." Out of context that comes off really bad.
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Oh I though Chris U wasnt on S40 why are they showing him lol
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Uh Kellee rejected their offer but she was given a sweeter deal after.
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how strangely erotic

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WHY lS KARISHMA ON THE PUZZLE
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a lot of time left

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GTM posted...

a lot of time left

Yep.
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i really hope this doesnt blow up in kellees face

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I'm REALLY worried about this.
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hard truths kellee badass

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Noura is by far the best character of the season. If this is her funeral it's gonna be a huge damper on the season going into the merge.
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Fact - there have been more all female F3s than all male F3s
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You guys know me, and you know I'm big on female empowerment. But Jeff has directed this tribal council in SUCH a heavy-handed manner.
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hoping it's jack

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GTM posted...

hoping it's jack

Ditto. He's so fucking dull.
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Yeah, I think this is a good conversation to have but Jeff is trying too hard to steer things
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Here we go.
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I liked Kellee's initial speech cause that was just from the heart, like a gut reaction, but yeah, they didnt really go-- Holy shit jamal

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he's on the jury

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XDXDXD

Jamal playing his idol for Noura...my God, if he goes home right here.
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If Jamal just idoled himself out...
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wait

first member of the jury??
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Wait... Jack is on the jury... in 14th place?!
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Good on you, Survivor. Rudy was a legend.
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Rudy <3
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This episode was such a letdown after last week's knockout.

A lame Island of Idols
An anticlimactic end to the immunity challenge
A one-sided barrage at TC stemming from a relatively benign comment
A throwaway boot when there were some exciting options
Jury inexplicably starting earlier and earlier as the series progresses
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IoI wasnt bad. Im glad someone finally just turned it down and got nothing for it.

The barrage was understandable imo. And Jack wasnt very gripping in the end.

Not sure about this jury (do Rob & Sandra vote?) but I dont think it hurts the episode.

Overall I liked this episode tonight.
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Mind you I dont think Jamal was wrong for assuming a womens alliance was possiblebecause it was. Just that it brought on some compelling discussion from the women that was very relevant, and I found it amusing how last week Jamal was talking to Jack about his durag comment, only to have the table turned (and Jack get voted out against Jamals wishes).
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Yeah, blasting Jamal for assuming a women's alliance in a season that's already had a women's alliance is silly. I won't believe that Dean or Karishma never mentioned that there was one on Lairo. He was totally justified in thinking it with how this season has started.
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Underleveled posted...

Fact - there have been more all female F3s than all male F3s

Yeah, I don't know what Kellee was talking about. And the kicker is the one time there was an all male F3, they weren't even in an alliance. They would've booted Fabio if he lost immunity.
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Peridiam posted...

And Jack wasnt very gripping in the end.

Well that's what I mean. There were boot options that would have been worse for the season but a better ending to to the episode in a vacuum, specifically either Kellee or Jamal getting ousted by their own idol. Instead a UTR/MOR-lite dude went out with little fanfare and it hurt the episode (even if it was better for the season).

Peridiam posted...

The barrage was understandable imo.

It would've been a little more understandable if the comment was more derogatory, and certainly less uncomfortable if it had been untrue.
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Worst part of the episode was the EOE flashback. Ugh, was that entire thing infuriating.

Second-worst was... jury already? WTF?

Kellee shouldn't have used the s-word but was right to call out that over half the time there's that idea thrown out that there's never actually such an alliance. And we really need to start treating people as people and leave it at that - that's what's important. Feely Dan needs to learn that lesson.
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Not gonna lie, I thought the big controversy would be Feely Dan after that one scene in the episode.
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Mewtwo59 posted...

Not gonna lie, I thought the big controversy would be Feely Dan after that one scene in the episode.

Same. Specifically I wondered if a TC incident would have been the reason they realized they shouldn't bring Hatch back for S40; maybe I'm still not wrong
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Peridiam posted...

Mind you I dont think Jamal was wrong for assuming a womens alliance was possiblebecause it was. Just that it brought on some compelling discussion from the women that was very relevant, and I found it amusing how last week Jamal was talking to Jack about his durag comment, only to have the table turned (and Jack get voted out against Jamals wishes).

Yeah these are the things I wished they talked about more, the comment on why womens alliances are talked about /labelled/feared so much more than "men's" alliances, and the comment by Jamal about him learning a lot which I wished he would've related it to his experience with Jack.

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How many successful men's alliances have there been? The closest I can think of is the Boran Boys from Africa, who probably would've been successful if production hadn't screwed up the immunity challenge. The only other one I can think of that stuck together was Terry's La Mina alliance, and that one was pre-merge.

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So two take aways:

- EoE had a 13 person Jury, Jack is 11 spots away from the final 3. So add Rob and Sandra and that will be a 13 person jury.

- The men and women alliance talk is all well and good but the fact of the matter is in Survivor, and Big Brother people will find the smallest things to bond over so they can make an alliance and if it has to go to the smallest similarity, like gender, then that's what they are going to do to move forward in the game.
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I thought Kellee's speech was very poignant and I love that it came out so organically, but then Jeff desperately trying to make it into a moment was so on the nose and it really took away everything that made it good in the first place. Let the players have the conversation themselves.

Independently of whether there is or isn't a women's alliance at the time, it's absolutely true that women often do need each other. How many times do we have to see the woman of a showmance or duo get the boot over the man? It happened this season too, haha. Minorities in general tend to bond with each other and seek each other for protection. It's not rare for the very few Black contestants to be tight with each other. Ultimately, though, there's a reason most of the women who have won Survivor are given accolades for their social games or playing under the radar while the men tend to be credited with the strategy. I think it's especially difficult for an older woman to try to play that role and step out of the mom box. It's not too long ago that Spencer was making comments about Kass' estrogen making her act insane, either.

This season has been hammering in the whole girl power thing a lot and this episode was truly the cherry on top. I like it but it also feels like they're just trying to construct a narrative for the winner and they're just trying to pander knowing full-well a non-returnee woman hasn't won since Michele and Jeff is still fuming about it.
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It doesn't help that the new finale format (which Probst LOVES) heavily favors men, especially those who played big, flashy games, nor that he seems to admonish most seasons with female winners. Even though he's quick to praise Tina or Parvati, he rarely speaks of Kim or Natalie A or Denise, who are frequently cited by fans as among the best players of all time. So I feel like Probst isn't exactly helping the situation.
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Yeah, I'm not buying Jeff's sudden change of heart either, which made his questions during tribal feel like him trying to build a moment.

I hate the new FTC format with the outwit / outplay / outlast round of questioning, and the fire-making thing is dumb as hell too. It's a well-known fact that Jeff and the rest of production changed the format precisely to avoid people like Michele winning, so like... lol.
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I'm not even sure if you can blame it on the new format. Sarah won with it over two men, and the only woman in FTC who really had a prayer to win since then is Chrissy. Part of the problem is that over the last 3 seasons, the only women who made FTC were Laurel, Angelina, and Julie. I'd say the firemaking had a bigger impact, but Kara and Angela weren't winning anyway. It seems like the big female threats are getting cut at like 5 or 6 recently, like Alison and Victoria.

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"The new format favoring men" is all based in the assumption that men are better fire makers than the women but as we have seen so far this season women have been better at making fire than the men.

I'm like 75% sure a woman is winning this season but I'm not sure which one I'm actually leaning Missy.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

So add Rob and Sandra and that will be a 13 person jury.

It says in the "Oath of the Idols" that Rob and Sandra don't vote.

And Jeff trying to build a moment was kind of annoying.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Sarah won with it over two men, and the only woman in FTC who really had a prayer to win since then is Chrissy.

Sarah's win is what finally convinced Probst to change the F4 format, to avoid situations like that.
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I'm more bothered by the fact the tribe intros at the immunity challenge didn't have the usual "so and so voted out at the last tribal council" blurb + reaction from those on the other tribe.

Like whoever got voted out in a 4-4 situation should've prompted some reactions. Is this another one of those cases where there was a reward challenge filmed but not shown?

eaedwards6400 posted...

"The new format favoring men" is all based in the assumption that men are better fire makers than the women but as we have seen so far this season women have been better at making fire than the men.

I'm like 75% sure a woman is winning this season but I'm not sure which one I'm actually leaning Missy.

The actual reason fire-making exists is to be able to give another shot to the perceived biggest threat to make F3, which is in line with production's efforts to have so-called deserving winners and give an incentive to players not to be afraid to play big and thus make better TV (in theory). Usually it'd be a no-brainer to just cut them at 4 if they lost immunity, but now they have another chance. The FTC format is similarly supposed to undermine the more personal aspect of Survivor by not giving jurors the opportunity to have a one-on-one with the finalists and ask them whatever they want and giving the jurors clear directives on how they should vote, therefore producing more satisfying winners (in production's eyes). Since the changes, the winner has always either won immunity or won fire (or both, in Chris' case), and it's always been men. I don't think men are necessarily better at making fire than women (or they shouldn't be) but I do think giving someone two chances to save themselves benefits a man's traditional play style more than a woman's.

A woman is definitely winning this season. We hadn't seen so much discussion about female empowerment since Kaoh Rong. Angelina's own little speeches don't really count since she was always edited negatively. It's been the season's theme since the premiere. I can imagine production would piss themselves in excitement if Missy won since she's a triple minority and it'd definitely explain the narrative. I don't think there's much reason to believe anyone but herself and Kellee have a shot, but the merge will make it much clearer since characters' edits can change dramatically once the merge hits. I have seen some talk of Tommy but I think he's far too bland in his content to be taken seriously. Someone who is just a player and not a person I could never see win, and he was thoroughly embarrassed this episode.
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dammit peridiam

*blows nose*

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Yeah that was a really good one. The only moment I could think of that wasn't mentioned was Terry leaving during Cambodia.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

It says in the "Oath of the Idols" that Rob and Sandra don't vote.

"We are no longer idols, we are now members of the Jury"

but most people interpreted whatever was written as they are not part of the regular tribals and wont vote people out

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