Board 8 > I'm playing in my first Fire Emblem draft soon.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've never heard of this until recently, when a friend brought it up. We're starting in about a week or so.

For those who don't know, a Fire Emblem draft works like this:

-You get a few people together
-You have a list of all the playable characters in the game
-You take turns "drafting" characters onto your team, until all the characters are gone (if numbers don't work out evenly, you either ban a couple characters or just leave the worst ones as undrafted)
-Everyone starts a new file, and is only allowed to utilize the characters they drafted
-All lords are available to all characters
-Whoever advances farthest in the game without a game over wins.
-No resets allowed.

Typically you play on the highest difficulty, to minimize the chances of ties, but regardless there are tiebreakers in place such as fewest turns, most money, etc.

Anyone have any advice on this? Or any experience?

I'm doing FE7, Hector Hard Mode with 4 people. So we all get the 3 lords plus 10 characters.

Obviously, Matthew is insanely valuable. Beyond that I think probably Serra and Priscilla gotta be up there.

Try to get a strong lategame prepromote like Pent or Harken to carry you through later maps without difficulty
If you can't get someone like Serra or Priscilla, rush a mage like Lucius to promotion
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no game overs instead of turn count huh

That seems pretty easy to me if you have a lot of FE experience considering you can basically solo the game with certain characters.

tcaz2 posted...

no game overs instead of turn count huh

That seems pretty easy to me if you have a lot of FE experience considering you can basically solo the game with certain characters.

Literally solo, though?

As in like, no character who isn't on your roster is allowed to do anything, period. No rescuing. No meat shields. Etc. If they get into combat at all, it's a loss. The only exception is that you can use a chatacter who isn't on your roster in order to recruit characters.

I did a FE7 draft once but the ruleset was different. Win condition was lowest turn count.

If you're going survival, hmm. Matthew would definitely be an asset if he's not granted to all (I think he was in the draft I did...or maybe that was just for the first map, I forget) It's probably obvious but be mindful of recruit conditions - drafting someone like Guy or Raven thinking the HHM bonuses will help you can be a wasted pick if someone undercuts you by drafting the character(s) needed to recruit them (unless you have worked out some agreement or system to avoid this.)

Edit: Oh you just covered that.

Marcus probably has some good utility here. Agreed with grabbing a late pre-promote like Pent or Harken.
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One thing I considered was how picking someone like Canas is risky because of the no reset rule with limited roster. If you fail the sidequest objective, you just...can't recruit him.

What other characters come from sidequests?

xp1337 posted...

Marcus probably has some good utility here.

that's an understatement. he shoudn't even be draftable - either all or none, because if only one person got him they have such a huge advantage.
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Yeah, most drafts I've seen have had the Jeigan be free. Though in this game it'd probably just mean everyone solos with Marcus until they get their lategame prepromote to carry them through the end.

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Oh by the way, we're doing an auction draft.

So, everybody starts with $100.

We randomize a player order. On your turn, you pick a character to put up for auction and you automatically bid $1. (So that you can't put up a shitty character nobody wants unless you're willing to give one of your 10 slots to them.)

So, it's like a balance. Maybe you drop $80 on Matthew, but then the rest of your team will suck.

Many layers of strategy.

Not actual money.

With no incentive to get a low turn count you can just boss abuse whoever you pick up to level 20.

...Not that I would endorse such a strategy, of course!

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turbopuns3 posted...

What other characters come from sidequests?

Only Karla who would be the worst possible pick ever (unless you somehow BS'd an argument that it lets you use Bartre without drafting him because you need him to reach --/5 and survive a round in combat against her (and not kill her) but even then it's not worth it but the sheer audacity of this argument almost would appeal to me lol)

Though you'd need to be aware that Karel and Harken are mutually exclusive. Harken is the "easy" one to get because the conditions for recruiting him are "don't do things by Turn 10" whereas with Karel you have to either kill enough promoted enemies or unlock enough doors in time for him to be the one who shows up.

Geitz/Wallace are in a similar boat but more dangerous because they're mutually exclusive based on which path you end up on. Probably best to avoid them unless you're pretty sure you're going to get their map.

Farina is also a terrible pick (IMO) because of the 20000 gold cost.
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Kenri posted...

With no incentive to get a low turn count

Well that's the first tiebreaker.

And yeah, I'd go Lucius over Canas, assuming you can use Raven and Priscilla for recruitment. Canas is better for a quick promote, but relying on NPC units in a limited unit no reset run is just asking for a disaster.

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xp1337 posted...

Only Karla who would be the worst possible pick ever (unless you somehow BS'd an argument that it lets you use Bartre without drafting him because you need him to reach --/5 and survive a round in combat against her (and not kill her) but even then it's not worth it but the sheer audacity of this argument almost would appeal to me lol)

Honestly, Bartre sucks enough that it's not really any bonus to get to use him so you can get Karla.


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Mewtwo59 posted...

Honestly, Bartre sucks enough that it's not really any bonus to get to use him so you can get Karla.

That's why I said it still wouldn't be worth it even if that argument flew!

it's just it's such a crazy argument i'd be tempted to sabotage myself to make it for the lolz >_>
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Also I should say, we're still settling some of the rules, so if you all have compelling reasons why these rules are dumb, please share and I can present the argument to the group. It's all of our first times drafting this game. The one guy who started it has only drafted FE8 before.

Kenri posted...

With no incentive to get a low turn count you can just boss abuse whoever you pick up to level 20.

...Not that I would endorse such a strategy, of course!

Also this doesn't work out well if you don't have a healer, and even then funds are going to be limited since you likely aren't gonna have the luxury of fully clearing every map.

So, idk. I mean it's a good thing to consider.

I guess a good question to ask would be...assuming every player finished the game (zero chance this is happening with our group), which units would be most efficient?

But the real question should be, "Assuming you suck at FE, which units would get you the farthest before you inevitably fail?"

But just thinking this off-the-top-of-my-head-and-I-haven't-played-FE7-in-like-a-decade

Marcus Tier: Marcus
Top Tier: Oswin, Serra/Priscilla, Matthew, Sain, Kent, Raven, Pent, Harken, Hawkeye
Good Enough: Guy, Heath

idk something like that.
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turbopuns3 posted...

But the real question should be, "Assuming you suck at FE, which units would get you the farthest before you inevitably fail?"

go all-in on marcus
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turbopuns3 posted...

Also this doesn't work out well if you don't have a healer, and even then funds are going to be limited since you likely aren't gonna have the luxury of fully clearing every map.

Well, you could if there was no incentive to hurry! It would be anti-fun though so unless someone's hyper competitive I don't think you need to worry about it.

turbopuns3 posted...

But the real question should be, "Assuming you suck at FE, which units would get you the farthest before you inevitably fail?"

Marcus.

Then uhh Sain and maybe Hector since you're stuck with him anyway. Maybe even Oswin since surviving the early game is priority #1.

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Kenri posted...

Well, you could if there was no incentive to hurry! It would be anti-fun though so unless someone's hyper competitive I don't think you need to worry about it.

How, though? You're going to get hit fighting a boss, right?

Or, ohhh do you mean ranged attacking a boss without range? Are there such bosses available early on?

turbopuns3 posted...

Kenri posted...

Well, you could if there was no incentive to hurry! It would be anti-fun though so unless someone's hyper competitive I don't think you need to worry about it.

How, though? You're going to get hit fighting a boss, right?

Or, ohhh do you mean ranged attacking a boss without range? Are there such bosses available early on?

Boss Abuse is just exploiting any boss who is parked on a regen tile (so a throne.) As long as you can survive a round of combat you can just stand next to them, and as long as you survive (and deal damage) on the enemy phase attack, you'll get the EXP.

If the boss is ever in danger of you killing them back off a few turns and let the throne heal them up. If you're in danger of dying back off and heal. If you have a healer with you they can grind EXP healing them the whole time. All the better if the boss has no ranged weapon and you can just park the healer next to your unit and heal every turn/as needed.

You could conceivably start doing this as early as the third map (Chapter 13) I think.

You can also do it ranged against a melee boss like you said too, but as long as there's no mathematical chance of the boss killing you in a single round you don't even need to do that. Your only limitation would be funds for weapons/healing. And a number of these maps conveniently have armories and shops!

but yes this would be very anti-fun
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I kind of want to suggest the idea of switching to game overs don't matter, but fewest turns to beat the game wins.

However.

I know that if we did that, at least two of the four people would never finish the game. Lol.

Maybe we do a limit of like 10 game overs.

xp1337 posted...

You could conceivably start doing this as early as the third map (Chapter 13) I think.

Oh yeah, we're playing Lyn's Tale first also. So there's that. Which is also why I specifically named Matthew as being insanely valuable.

xp1337 posted...

If the boss is ever in danger of you killing them back off a few turns and let the throne heal them up. If you're in danger of dying back off and heal. If you have a healer with you they can grind EXP healing them the whole time.

Right that's why I was saying if you can't get an early healer, this won't get you very far. Because I don't think you wanna burn all your vulneraries with a limited roster. And even if you have a healer, that's putting a damper on your team's damage output so you also don't burn all your healing staves early. Idk.

turbopuns3 posted...

xp1337 posted...

If the boss is ever in danger of you killing them back off a few turns and let the throne heal them up. If you're in danger of dying back off and heal. If you have a healer with you they can grind EXP healing them the whole time.

Right that's why I was saying if you can't get an early healer, this won't get you very far. Because I don't think you wanna burn all your vulneraries with a limited roster. And even if you have a healer, that's putting a damper on your team's damage output so you also don't burn all your healing staves early. Idk.

Ironically, adding Lyn's Mode makes this more viable!

Do this on Lyn Chapter 10. It has a vendor who sells Vulneraries and Heal Staves. The money in this mode doesn't matter. You can grind Lyn and anyone else on her team you draft to 20!

(Chapter 13 also has such a shop as well but funds would be much tighter, but the principle remains. Many maps with bosses on thrones have shops that would aid in this)
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xp1337 posted...

Do this on Lyn Chapter 10. It has a vendor who sells Vulneraries and Heal Staves. The money in this mode doesn't matter. You can grind Lyn and anyone else on her team you draft to 20!

I'm curious, assuming you don't get Serra, the only healer in Lyn's Tale, could you actually have the funds to level someone (say, matthew, kent, or sain) to 20 using only vulneraries?

But stepping away from silly things you shouldn't do because it's not fun for anyone.

Adding Lyn's mode obviously elevates the value of anyone there since you can feed them EXP in Lyn's Mode. Serra becomes the clear superior healer choice, Matthew gains a bunch of value, and Sain/Kent do as well. None of them reach Marcus Tier but they all become much more valuable to pick up.
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How would you rate nils?

turbopuns3 posted...

xp1337 posted...

Do this on Lyn Chapter 10. It has a vendor who sells Vulneraries and Heal Staves. The money in this mode doesn't matter. You can grind Lyn and anyone else on her team you draft to 20!

I'm curious, assuming you don't get Serra, the only healer in Lyn's Tale, could you actually have the funds to level someone (say, matthew, kent, or sain) to 20 using only vulneraries?

Selling the Knight Seal instead of promoting Wallace in Chapter 9 should get you 5000 so that's 48 uses right there.

I think you could get pretty far, yeah.
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Ninian/Nils (I assume they count as the same unit) was one I'm not sure of. I think if you're comfortable with your team, go for it. But they wouldn't take priority over trying to get a solid group going.

if they are counted separately then nils is a bad pick imo, his availability would be terrible.

...on the other hand he's a forced deploy in final chapter and it could become tragic if your run ends because he enters combat accidentally during the rush >_>
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You'd probably get more use out of the seal by promoting Kent or Sain if you have them instead of selling it. You're basically getting another Marcus if you promote either of them in Lyn mode.

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Personally, I think dancers should be free, especially one that's a forced deploy in the final chapter.

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This seems incredibly nerdy and lame and everything I want.

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Ok so after your all's input here's what I'm tempted to say to the group:

Marcus, Matthew, and Nils should be guaranteed. Athos is banned (this one just to keep it divisible by 4)

Set a game over limit greater than zero.

Completing the game is first win condition, in case of a tie, fewest turns wins.

Mewtwo59 posted...

You'd probably get more use out of the seal by promoting Kent or Sain if you have them instead of selling it. You're basically getting another Marcus if you promote either of them in Lyn mode.

Ah, fair point.

In theory, I do think there's enough money around in Lyn Mode that you could get a surprising amount of grinding done there, especially considering you're likely going to be funneling all your EXP into 2-3 units the whole mode anyway unless you somehow manage to get ahold of all of those guys.

but really i wouldn't recommend it. i was entertaining this as a hypothetical, i wouldn't recommend boss abusing because it feels like a violation of the spirit of the rules even if it's not prohibited. just feels like a loophole.
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turbopuns3 posted...

Marcus, Matthew, and Nils should be guaranteed. Athos is banned (this one just to keep it divisible by 4)

I think I would permit Athos to all before banning him. Forced deploy, etc. If it's simply a numbers thing I would ban Karla before Athos unless someone objects and really wants to go for her for some reason. But that's just me because Karla's recruit condition is silly and Athos genuinely has some value even if it's only for the final chapter.
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Yeah, that makes sense.

Ran it past the group, we agreed on:

Guarantee Matthew
Ban Karla

And we'll work on an additional 2 slots, whether to guarantee or ban or just leave it to the last characters unpicked just don't get rostered.

Response to guaranteeing Marcus was, he's not such a crutch that the auction system doesn't work it out. Whoever wants him is gonna have to pay.

Response to guaranteeing Nils was just a pretty plain "No that's dumb."

Matthew though, everyone agreed his sheer utility is just tiers above any other character. So he'll be guaranteed.

And we're raising the game over limit to 5.

i feel like Lyn mode shouldn't be allowed at all for this
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Xuxon posted...

i feel like Lyn mode shouldn't be allowed at all for this

One of those things the auction system works out. Lyn's Tale characters obviously have increased weight, so you spend more on them.

Honestly, I'd just make Bartre and Karla a package deal. It's not like it's unfair because Bartre is bad and Karla is so bad that it doesn't make up for having to use Bartre the whole game.

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We're trying to only guarantee/ban characters that outright break the system. Beyond just "Marcus has stats" but more like "a thief enables such a significant amount of stuff it's like playing a different game if you don't have one"

Or "karla literally is unusable if someone else drafts bartre"

We're probably just gonna leave it to where 1-2 spots just get left up to whoever nobody drafts.

Like, sure bartre is bad, in general, in a casual play of the game.

But the sheer virtue of being a warm body available early in the game has a serious value in this context. Like he's a dude who can do things. Compared to not having an extra person who can do things.

Nino is literal garbage tier here. But, we're not going to ban her outright. At the very least, you can guaaranteed physically recruit her and use her without breaking rules (unlike Karla). Like she can hold items. Or kill things that have low HP. A warm body.

This sounds really fun. And this is a system that could be adapted to a lot of different games. Just to use FFV as a random example, you could draft jobs and then use lowest average party level as the win con.

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Xuxon posted...

i feel like Lyn mode shouldn't be allowed at all for this

Also, another point on this is that since we're guaranteeing Matthew, basically why would anyone choose not to power level Matthew during that part?

Sure, you wanna level up Lyn some, and if you got another Lyn's Tale character, level them up some.

But Matthew is just so good and you have him immediately starting Hector's Tale in chapter 11.

After reading what I just posted, I made myself wonder what the point of including Lyn's Tale was if we're all going to play it the same way lol.

Hmm I'll mention that.

Though if progressing is a concern due to difficulty, maybe we should just give everyone that crutch.