Poll of the Day > Why is China so out of touch with the reality?

(+) Yeah! (+)

They banned all of South Park because of the newest episode Band in China, do they not understand how foolish and childish they look after banning a series because they pointed out Chinas control over the media? They are literally proving Matt and Trey's point right

I don't think there is a government as insecure or oblivious as these idiots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2019/10/south-park-china-response-trey-parker-matt-stone-houston-rockets-1202754428/amp/
---

Muscles posted...

Band in China

Well, they called it.

The answer is they just dont care and are unwilling to change.
---

Because China isn't out of touch with reality. It's extremely in-touch with reality and it's others that aren't. The fact is that China has a massive customer base but an extremely tight grip upon everything with a party in power that exists solely to ensure the continuation of its own power. It's why things like the disputes over the SCS exist. If China relented they'd lost precisely nothing in regards to things like trade but they would lose the chance to potentially gain large amounts of power. Basically so long as the CCP keeps an extremely tight grip on the reigns of control there is nothing that can be done except submit. The only thing that might threaten said grip of power would be things directly calling it into question. So they ban anything that might show them as less than perfect, shuffle blame off onto individuals so the party remains spotless, and proceed to enforce harsh censorship so the people can't even consider if they are being oppressed. They lose South Park in China? Oh well. They don't care. It's a western show and they can likely force a knock-off version down their own citizens throats or let in some other show eager to suckle at the warm teat of the chinese market that's willing to play by the rules in South Park's place.

It's getting pretty close to an Orwellian state over there. Power is the only thing that matters.
---

I want to add; this is why it's also a terrible idea to try and appeal to the chinese market or get involved in any way, shape, or form. The government will gladly do everything it can to gain power over you and take advantage of you before passing off any gains to domestic companies with heavy ties to the CCP. You'll never break into the market successfully and, even if you do, it's only a matter of time till they toss you out in favor of their own company. They will not respect things like copyright laws and do NOT have a free market in any sense of the word. As such your doom as a non-chinese company is only a matter of time.
---

No you don't understand. YOU'RE out of touch. This is the Chinese century. They will call the shots, and make the plays. Western politicians will bend over backwards for money from China. Even at the great expense to their own countries. The Chinese do not forget the Century of Humiliation. They're going to make sure the west has a millennia of humiliation.
---

Let's get g-faqs banned in china

Korruptor posted...

Let's get g-faqs banned in china

This doesn't even work against Sino-Nationalist on 4chan.
---

Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

Korruptor posted...

Let's get g-faqs banned in china

snip

This doesn't even work against Sino-Nationalist on 4chan.

You mean the Chinese nationalists? Republic of China? The true legitimate government of China?

They ban things that they don't like or find offensive.. Sounds kind of like a certain political party in the US.
---

China creates their own reality to be in touch with. They don't really care about yours.
---

Korruptor posted...

Republic of China? The true legitimate government of China?

Doubt.
---

Mao was a mass-murdering idiot. The CCP is lead by Whinnie the Pooh. China does not have a right to the South China Sea. Taiwan is the legitimate government of China and the CCP is an illegitimate ruling body that is so corrupt it couldn't change a lightbulb without sixty bribes and falsified documents. Tibet deserves to be free and is being oppressed...

Hmmm... That should be more than enough to ensure I'll be put in prison and beaten into false crime confessions should I ever go to China.
---

China has such a tight control over information that the Chinese have no choice but to accept and believe the government's story. Even though they're aware their information is censored, they lack access to alternative outlets to actually figure out how the censored version differs from reality. As such the majority in China hate the Hong Kong protests and support the Chinese actions in this situation.

This is going to be the reality in the west as well if this kind of shit keeps being tolerated. China needs to be isolated economically if they refuse to stay in their lane. They don't care how bad it looks, controlling information is a key part of how they stay in power. They don't need to suppress dissent that doesn't exist.
---

Blighboy posted...

China has such a tight control over information that the Chinese have no choice but to accept and believe the government's story. Even though they're aware their information is censored, they lack access to alternative outlets to actually figure out how the censored version differs from reality. As such the majority in China hate the Hong Kong protests and support the Chinese actions in this situation.

This is going to be the reality in the west as well if this kind of shit keeps being tolerated. China needs to be isolated economically if they refuse to stay in their lane. They don't care how bad it looks, controlling information is a key part of how they stay in power. They don't need to suppress dissent that doesn't exist.

Wont happen. Politicians in the western world are in bed with them. These people dont care about their own countries and the people in them. There are many that are rooting for the chinese system to become the global government

Because Xi Jinpooh is an oversensitive baby and his party is bloodthirsty and greedy.
---

They are trying to create their reality.
---

SunWuKung420 posted...

They are trying to create their reality.

yeah, someone posted that already, ok?
---

I am really hoping I live to see a civil war where democrats overthrow the communist party in my lifetime

adjl posted...

China creates their own reality to be in touch with. They don't really care about yours.

It's not my reality, it's reality, and they are proving SP right by doing exactly what SP said they would do, hell they are making exaggerated satire look like facts

The Chinese government is like a child throwing a temper tantrum and shoving thereit fingers in their ears and going nananana I can't hear you

They don't look strong, or powerful or badass or manly or whatever they are going for
---

Sounds like safe space logic.

How are they out of touch with reality if they keep getting what they want and keep getting even richer and more powerful.

Companies do bend over backwards to please and target the Chinese market. It's been happening for over a decade now. The Chinese market is too large and too tempting for most companies to just choose to not care about. And you know what you have to do to get access to the Chinese market? Not upset the Chinese government.
---

TigerTycoon posted...

How are they out of touch with reality if they keep getting what they want and keep getting even richer and more powerful.

Companies do bend over backwards to please and target the Chinese market. It's been happening for over a decade now. The Chinese market is too large and too tempting for most companies to just choose to not care about. And you know what you have to do to get access to the Chinese market? Not upset the Chinese government.

Because they look like whiney little children that don't know how to play nice, im pretty sure they like having a good reputation, and they keep making it worse and worse, one odd these days those companies will get fed up with their bs and be like fuck it, we don't want to keep working around your stupid childish antics anymore, go fuck yourselves
---

Muscles posted...

adjl posted...

China creates their own reality to be in touch with. They don't really care about yours.

It's not my reality, it's reality, and they are proving SP right by doing exactly what SP said they would do, hell they are making exaggerated satire look like facts

The Chinese government is like a child throwing a temper tantrum and shoving thereit fingers in their ears and going nananana I can't hear you

They don't look strong, or powerful or badass or manly or whatever they are going for

And none of that matters because they've created a reality in which what you're saying isn't true. You can say it all you want, even defend it with logic and critical thinking, but at the end of the day they're making their approach work very, very well. They don't have to care about your opinions on how childish they seem because they get to control a billion people instead.

_AdjI_ posted...

Muscles posted...

adjl posted...

China creates their own reality to be in touch with. They don't really care about yours.

It's not my reality, it's reality, and they are proving SP right by doing exactly what SP said they would do, hell they are making exaggerated satire look like facts

The Chinese government is like a child throwing a temper tantrum and shoving thereit fingers in their ears and going nananana I can't hear you

They don't look strong, or powerful or badass or manly or whatever they are going for

And none of that matters because they've created a reality in which what you're saying isn't true. You can say it all you want, even defend it with logic and critical thinking, but at the end of the day they're making their approach work very, very well. They don't have to care about your opinions on how childish they seem because they get to control a billion people instead.

I see what you are saying, but nothing lasts forever, and the worse they are now the worse it will be when it all comes crashing down
---

Muscles posted...

TigerTycoon posted...

How are they out of touch with reality if they keep getting what they want and keep getting even richer and more powerful.

Companies do bend over backwards to please and target the Chinese market. It's been happening for over a decade now. The Chinese market is too large and too tempting for most companies to just choose to not care about. And you know what you have to do to get access to the Chinese market? Not upset the Chinese government.

Because they look like whiney little children that don't know how to play nice, im pretty sure they like having a good reputation, and they keep making it worse and worse, one odd these days those companies will get fed up with their bs and be like fuck it, we don't want to keep working around your stupid childish antics anymore, go fuck yourselves

Would you prefer to be liked or feared? Of course, every government wants both, but China has made it clear they are okay with the latter. You also must realize, many people within China are very patriotic and support their government (because people everywhere mix up supporting their country with supporting their government, combined with how China heavily censors the media and internet and has pro government propaganda everywhere).

Companies deciding they don't want even more money? Not likely.

Most movie studios create movies with the requirement from the very beginning that it's suitable for the Chinese market, not just by not including offensive political material, but by making sure the plot is simple enough as to not get lost in translation.

Blizzard already reskinned all undead enemies in WoW years ago to comply with China's "no religious material" law.
---

TigerTycoon posted...

Companies do bend over backwards to please and target the Chinese market. It's been happening for over a decade now. The Chinese market is too large and too tempting for most companies to just choose to not care about. And you know what you have to do to get access to the Chinese market? Not upset the Chinese government.

That's market forces for you. Let's not expect big business to have a sudden fit of ethics.
---

In China, allowing somebody to insult you publicly is considered weakness. Any dirty tricks to get back at them are therefore considered fair game. The Chinese people don't see it as a temper tantrum even if the rest of the world does.
---

Blighboy posted...

In China, allowing somebody to insult you publicly is considered weakness. Any dirty tricks to get back at them are therefore considered fair game. The Chinese people don't see it as a temper tantrum even if the rest of the world does.

Which is why the CCP need to be bashed and roasted everytime they fuck with freedoms and rights.
---

This is like asking EA/Activision if they are out of touch with reality because they keep doing things people hate but results wise their actions that people keep complaining about keeping making more and more money.

So they're not actually wrong, they are just aware they can get away with it.
---

They've forgotten their martial art roots.
---

Hopefully these protests lead to the abolishment of communism in china, its sad seeing so many people oppressed like they have been for generations

If America was justified in arming any rebellion these guys would be the ones
---

Muscles posted...

Hopefully these protests lead to the abolishment of communism in china

Thatd be great

But its practically impossible
---

Somebody send over their child to convince them that they aren't doing enough to make our world a better place
---

Mead posted...

Muscles posted...

Hopefully these protests lead to the abolishment of communism in china

Thatd be great

But its practically impossible

Its an inevitably, its just a question of when, greater empires have fallen
---

Muscles posted...

Mead posted...

Muscles posted...

Hopefully these protests lead to the abolishment of communism in china

Thatd be great

But its practically impossible

Its an inevitably, its just a question of when, greater empires have fallen

You mean possibility. Even then it's unlikely you'll live to see it.
---

Muscles posted...

Why is China so out of touch with the reality?

He says before going back to watching the mainstream media and entertainment that pushes its own narrative and agenda over the truth >_>

Also bear in mind that much of the objection to China in general *is* agenda-driven and based on the fact that they've become an economic titan capable of threatening major Western nations' influence and power. Which isn't also to say that they're not a bad-faith actor who routinely ignores copyright and patent law, lies about environmental damage, has a deplorable human rights record, is suspected of currently engaging in mass murder of certain groups, brazenly spies on other nations, etc; it's just that even on those issues, the Western nations are worried about its growing power.

Unbridled9 posted...

Because China isn't out of touch with reality. It's extremely in-touch with reality and it's others that aren't.

Somewhat this. China understands what it's doing and its actions help to shield it from foreign attempts to subvert its government. And the deluded aspects of its culture really aren't that much different than similar elements within our culture, considering they also have an outrage culture, group-think, and play the race card when things don't go their way.

Muscles posted...

Hopefully these protests lead to the abolishment of communism in china, its sad seeing so many people oppressed like they have been for generations

And replace it with outright fascism? >_> And as for historical oppression, communism *replaced* a fucking monarchy, dude. Quality of life in China today is much better than when it was ruled by the imperial families.

Muscles posted...

If America was justified in arming any rebellion these guys would be the ones

That's only a great plan if you want to get HK absolutely slaughtered. When the US won its freedom, its opponents were an ocean away. China can mobilize the full power of its much, much larger military to put down any rebellion with ease and, as we saw in the past, the nation isn't exactly afraid to take drastic measures to maintain power.
---

7 years ago i spent 4 months in china consulting at an "electronics recycling facility". i use quotes, because the reality was they were more or less throwing circut boards onto bonfires to melt them down for the metals. the people in this town were living in a fucking miserable toxic cesspit because fuck it, its cheaper. I returned 2 years later for another round and came to find out that exactly 0 changes were made in the meantime. I packed my bags and bounced the fuck out. nothing i was going to say or do was going to sway these people.

the people in power in china are pure evil, and their control over their population is getting dangerously close to absolute. a good deal of their society is evil as well, but that still leaves at least a billion decent people trying their best.

feels like they are on the verge of a massive fucking bloodbath, but this time its occurring in the information age.

there is no suppressing what is about to happen. people get tired of war real quick once the actual sounds and images slap them in the face on a regular basis. its a goddamn tragedy, and it is about to get worse.
---

Aaantlion posted...

He says before going back to watching the mainstream media and entertainment that pushes its own narrative and agenda over the truth >_>

You know South Park uses hyperbole for humor right? They don't tell lies, they take the truth and caricaturize it but keep the core true

Aaantlion posted...

Also bear in mind that much of the objection to China in general *is* agenda-driven and based on the fact that they've become an economic titan capable of threatening major Western nations' influence and power. Which isn't also to say that they're not a bad-faith actor who routinely ignores copyright and patent law, lies about environmental damage, has a deplorable human rights record, is suspected of currently engaging in mass murder of certain groups, brazenly spies on other nations, etc; it's just that even on those issues, the Western nations are worried about its growing power.

I don't see a problem with an anti abhorrent humans rights violations agendas tbh

Aaantlion posted...

And replace it with outright fascism? >_> And as for historical oppression, communism *replaced* a fucking monarchy, dude. Quality of life in China today is much better than when it was ruled by the imperial families.

Because all revolutions end in fascism? I mean they are pretty much the same anyways, at worst it would get marginally worse but it could get a lot fucking better than a 3rd world shit hole the citizens are forced into

Aaantlion posted...

That's only a great plan if you want to get HK absolutely slaughtered. When the US won its freedom, its opponents were an ocean away. China can mobilize the full power of its much, much larger military to put down any rebellion with ease and, as we saw in the past, the nation isn't exactly afraid to take drastic measures to maintain power.

How evil do they have to be before someone else intervenes?
---

Muscles posted...

Hopefully these protests lead to the abolishment of communism in china, its sad seeing so many people oppressed like they have been for generations

If America was justified in arming any rebellion these guys would be the ones

You nuts? I support Hong Kong freedom but even if every citizen suddenly got miniguns from the U.S. they just don't have the people and China can cut off supplies to the city to starve them out. To top it off they'd immediately turn around and claim that the U.S. started the riots and was guilty of subverting the peace and everything and put the full blame for the entire riot on the U.S. About the only reason that the protests are having any degree of success is because they're *not* violent meaning that the CCP is responding with tear gas and the like instead of tanks. The moment it escalates Hong Kong will be beset by the military, crushed, and any vestige of western freedoms will be utterly extinguished.
---

Unbridled9 posted...

Muscles posted...

Hopefully these protests lead to the abolishment of communism in china, its sad seeing so many people oppressed like they have been for generations

If America was justified in arming any rebellion these guys would be the ones

You nuts? I support Hong Kong freedom but even if every citizen suddenly got miniguns from the U.S. they just don't have the people and China can cut off supplies to the city to starve them out. To top it off they'd immediately turn around and claim that the U.S. started the riots and was guilty of subverting the peace and everything and put the full blame for the entire riot on the U.S. About the only reason that the protests are having any degree of success is because they're *not* violent meaning that the CCP is responding with tear gas and the like instead of tanks. The moment it escalates Hong Kong will be beset by the military, crushed, and any vestige of western freedoms will be utterly extinguished.

Maybe that's what it would take for people to take action, they can't kill all their citizens in they entire country
---

Because all revolutions end in fascism? I mean they are pretty much the same anyways, at worst it would get marginally worse but it could get a lot fucking better than a 3rd world shit hole the citizens are forced into

I want to add that, no, the revolution did *not* replace the monarchy. They came about after it had already fallen and China was under the control of the Japanese. Mao's revolution was MUCH worse since it resulted in millions of deaths, economic deprivation, and general terribleness all around. Even if you are massively pro-communism there is little to deny that things were worse for China under Mao than under the Emperors. If Mao's communism had remained in place it's likely that China would still be basically a third world nation as chinese peasents tried to make steel in their back yards. It was only following the loosening of the old communist ideals that a bit of prosperity could even begin in their nation. Even now China is still a terrible country to live in in terms of service unless you are in one of the more industrial areas. Go out west into the more rural areas, or even just slightly away from major cities, and the QoL drops MASSIVELY!

You might want to try watching some China Uncensored on Youtube.
---

Muscles posted...

Maybe that's what it would take for people to take action, they can't kill all their citizens in they entire country

The vast majority of Chinese are against the protests and have no desire to revolt.
---

KnoxKorner posted...

No you don't understand. YOU'RE out of touch. This is the Chinese century. They will call the shots, and make the plays. Western politicians will bend over backwards for money from China. Even at the great expense to their own countries. The Chinese do not forget the Century of Humiliation. They're going to make sure the west has a millennia of humiliation.

Well... I'll get crucified for saying it here, but Trump has been loud about not getting fucked by China and even said it at the state of the UN address... but I'm not convinced that there isn't an ulterior motive there.

Personal opinion: I think they actually banned South Park after the organ harvesting joke, not Winnie the Pooh looking like their leader joke.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/23/forced-organ-harvesting-carried-years-throughout-china-report/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/18/china-killing-prisoners-to-harvest-organs-for-transplant-tribunal-finds/#644ac26d53d4
---

I don't think you will. How bad China is for America is basically the one thing that both the left and right agree on. The problem is that the free market of America is just that; free. For the most part at least. They can't stop a company from doing business in China; just try their best to make it undesirable. Meanwhile the CCP will gladly ignore fairness and the like which makes doing business next to impossible. It's like dealing with an extremely annoying and entitled rich kid in an 80's/90's movie or an anime who managed to buy out the school board or has more power than the principle or something.
---

It's been a while since we've had a true Muscles topic.
---

Muscles posted...

You know South Park uses hyperbole for humor right? They don't tell lies, they take the truth and caricaturize it but keep the core true

You're aware that their "truth" tends to vary from actual truth, right? More importantly, the show itself is huge on pushing its view on social issues, etc.

Muscles posted...

Because all revolutions end in fascism?

HK can't beat China, that revolution just isn't happening. I'm talking about the end of communism with something that actually might be likely if communism ended or eventually went far enough in that direction.

Muscles posted...

Because all revolutions end in fascism? I mean they are pretty much the same anyways, at worst it would get marginally worse but it could get a lot fucking better than a 3rd world shit hole the citizens are forced into

lolwut? China is 2nd-world, not 3rd. And while it has its problems, the difference between China and actual third world nations is far more significant than the difference between the US and China at this point. (I'd say excluding the poor rural villages, but the US also has those.)

Muscles posted...

How evil do they have to be before someone else intervenes?

Considering they're not even being as brutally repressive as the US has historically been, I'd say it's an insincere question. More importantly, China's military power makes "just intervening" about as likely as any other nation physically intervening when the US mistreats its citizens. The only intervention is likely to be sanctions.

Unbridled9 posted...

Because all revolutions end in fascism? I mean they are pretty much the same anyways, at worst it would get marginally worse but it could get a lot fucking better than a 3rd world shit hole the citizens are forced into

I want to add that, no, the revolution did *not* replace the monarchy. They came about after it had already fallen and China was under the control of the Japanese. Mao's revolution was MUCH worse since it resulted in millions of deaths, economic deprivation, and general terribleness all around. Even if you are massively pro-communism there is little to deny that things were worse for China under Mao than under the Emperors. If Mao's communism had remained in place it's likely that China would still be basically a third world nation as chinese peasents tried to make steel in their back yards. It was only following the loosening of the old communist ideals that a bit of prosperity could even begin in their nation. Even now China is still a terrible country to live in in terms of service unless you are in one of the more industrial areas. Go out west into the more rural areas, or even just slightly away from major cities, and the QoL drops MASSIVELY!

You might want to try watching some China Uncensored on Youtube.

If you actually wanted to learn about China, you shouldn't watch a glaring propagandist who peddles in conspiracy theories.

Unbridled9 posted...

Go out west into the more rural areas, or even just slightly away from major cities, and the QoL drops MASSIVELY!

You say that, but you forget the US's rural woes, among other problems.
---

No one is saying America is perfect but you have to be crazy to think it actually compares to china
---

Zeus isn't crazy, just well paid.
---

State consequentialism: the CCP believes it can do no wrong, because as long as it is in power it literally defines right and wrong. As a philisophy it has defined the Chinese government for much longer than the CCP has been around, but rarely has anyone been so brutal about it.
---