Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 241: Trump Goes Coup-Coup

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well even Lindsey Graham is sounding the alarm on this and threatening some sort of action, whether a condemnation by Congress (which yeah the White House will most likely ignore) or sanctions on Turkey if they invade Syria.

My gut feeling is that if Graham is worked up about it this much, it shows serious opposition at the very least.

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Lindsey Graham is like the most spineless RINO there is. He'll back down if Trump issues a strongly worded statement calling him part of the swamp.
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That's...exactly why it's interesting that he's going on his own preemptive Twitter rants

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

That's...exactly why it's interesting that he's going on his own preemptive Twitter rants

No doubt he was feeling pressure from moderates and centrists. He'll go the other way once Trump has had his turn.
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Didn't click it, but I just saw a headline saying even McConnell has spoken out against it as well.
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This is an awful decision by the way. Kurdistan is a far better ally to us than Turkey ever has been. Trump is basically siding with anti-freedom bullies.
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Wow, Portman:

https://twitter.com/PeterHamby/status/1181273374489628673

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aggregate updated: Biden +0.3

c'mon trend keep it up 1 more day

well trend doesn't really have to keep up, the next poll just has to not have Biden up double digits which I don't see how they could at this point

let's go October debate with Biden out of the center spot aww yeah
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Incidentally, supposing Trump wanted to enter the Democratic primary, I'm not sure they can stop him. There was a controversial case years ago about non-Christian students wanting to join Christian clubs on college campuses, which would allow them to take over the club if they got a majority of the membership. I'm not sure what the outcome was, but if it was that the Christian clubs don't have a right to exclude new members based on a lack of shared religious beliefs.....how could the Democratic Party refuse to allow Trump to enter its primaries?

The problem is of course that the Democrats don't use winner take all. If they did, Trump could get all of a state's delegates by getting in the 30% range while the other Democrats split votes. Trump could probably get to 30% between name recognition and a big drive to get Republicans to vote for him in the Democratic primary.
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But luckily the debate format would probably allow Trump to get center stage just by name recognition and controversy alone. We could have many debates of Trump vs. the field, which he would dominate just like the dominated the Republican debates.
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Israeli media reporting that Turkey launched an offensive against kurdish forces
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/nyregion/trump-taxes-lawsuit-vance.html

Trump has to turn over his tax returns.
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Yeah that's getting appealed.
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TheRock1525 posted...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/nyregion/trump-taxes-lawsuit-vance.html

Trump has to turn over his tax returns.

Not yet he doesn't

RTFA don't be an Ulti
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TheRock1525 posted...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/nyregion/trump-taxes-lawsuit-vance.html

Trump has to turn over his tax returns.

Why are you posting this here instead of in the anime topic where it belongs?
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Top 10 Anime Betrayals
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SmartMuffin posted...

XFD

are we still doing this? lol
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Erdogan is already attacking the Kurds:

https://twitter.com/sam_vinograd/status/1181297387077328897?s=21

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Who gives a shit about the Kurds?

I've never met a Kurd in my life.

Not ONE American soldier should die on their behalf. Ever.
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We don't need any American troops to defend the Kurds from Turkey. Trump could just tell Erdogan not to cross that border. That's why Erdogan asked for permission before doing it.
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SmartMuffin posted...

I've never met a Kurd in my life.

Ive always thought this was one of your weirdest tics

You always seem to think you have to have met someone to have empathy for them.

I dont know enough about the situation to say what we should or shouldnt be doing, but I do know that once we make something our business, we cant responsibly suddenly abandon it to chaos of our own making
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Also I assume if we didnt withdraw, no one would be dying for anyone. Isnt our withdrawal meant to ALLOW Turkey to attack? If we were still there, they wouldnt
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The Kurds, more than anyone other than the Syrian government, have provided the boots on the ground to destroy ISIS. They have also been our partners in fighting extremists in Iraq for years. Despite not getting official recognition as an independent nation as they really deserve, they have been vastly more effective than the woeful official Iraqi and Afghan governments since our invasion of those countries, both of which have been lucky to ever control even half of what is marked as their territory on a map, even with US aid.

That said - this war isn't a foregone conclusion. We also abandoned Poland right after creating it in 1918, it was invaded by the USSR....and Poland won that war.
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red sox 777 posted...

This is an awful decision by the way. Kurdistan is a far better ally to us than Turkey ever has been. Trump is basically siding with anti-freedom bullies.

Kurdistan doesn't exist and is not a better ally. Doesn't mean the murder were not good auxiliaries for us, but saying they are a better ally is pretty dumb. They bring very little to the table to us actually besides in that specific situation.

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If President Wilson wasn't such a big racist, Kurdistan would exist! He didn't care very much for self-determination of non-European peoples. But we should not let the errors of Democratic presidents determine our foreign policy 100 years later.
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And what does Turkey bring to us? We don't need them as a launching pad for missiles that can hit Russia anymore. Our technology has advanced and our missiles can fly much farther now. Now we no longer even have a democracy in Turkey, but rather an oppressive Islamist dictatorship that has even never acknowledged its genocide against Christians (Armenians). A country that has tried to limit freedom of speech in European countries to stop people from criticizing it.

They're not much better than Saudi Arabia.
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red sox 777 posted...

And what does Turkey bring to us? We don't need them as a launching pad for missiles that can hit Russia anymore. Our technology has advanced and our missiles can fly much farther now. Now we no longer even have a democracy in Turkey, but rather an oppressive Islamist dictatorship that has even never acknowledged its genocide against Christians (Armenians). A country that has tried to limit freedom of speech in European countries to stop people from criticizing it.

They're not much better than Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia and Turkey bring a lot to the table. Turkey more so militarily. Saudi Arabia more economically. We can't expect every country that we ally with to be mirror copies of ourselves. Especially in the Middle Eastern region where basically no countries follow.our direct ideology.

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And what does Turkey bring to us?

delicious doner kebap
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Why do they have to bring something to the table? Why can't we just protect people because otherwise they'll die and that's bad?
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Why can't we just protect people because otherwise they'll die and that's bad?

The same reason you don't spend your evenings as Batman out there fighting crime.

You could do that. It might save a few lives. Are you an evil and horrible person for saying "Nah, that's not really my problem?"
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SmartMuffin posted...

Why can't we just protect people because otherwise they'll die and that's bad?

The same reason you don't spend your evenings as Batman out there fighting crime.

You could do that. It might save a few lives. Are you an evil and horrible person for saying "Nah, that's not really my problem?"

It is if you already entered into a contract with them.
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pyresword posted...

Why do they have to bring something to the table? Why can't we just protect people because otherwise they'll die and that's bad?

Because we would be a morally in our own minds wasteland that would fall apart. That is not how nations stay afloat, and no one is the right side 100% in any situation anyways.

Our governments utmost
priority is our own citizens protection.

If we devoted out entire nation to protecting everyone's life because otherwise they'll die and that is bad, we would be bankrupt within a year.

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Or you could think about it even harder and realize that if the US isolates itself and allows the rest of the world to be guided by Russia and China instead that's going to result in a ton of problems that we will have to deal with down the line

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Corrik7 posted...

That is not how nations stay afloat, and no one is the right side 100% in any situation anyways.

Ok Ill bite

How were the Allied Powers not 100% in the right
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All of the problems we're dealing with right now are the direct result of our own interventions in the middle east decades ago. None of them are because of China and Russia, who are economic and military backwater nothings compared to us.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Ok Ill bite

How were the Allied Powers not 100% in the right

There is a very easy argument to be made that Japan only attacked us because we put them into a situation where they felt they had to.

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Corrik7 posted...

pyresword posted...

Why do they have to bring something to the table? Why can't we just protect people because otherwise they'll die and that's bad?

Because we would be a morally in our own minds wasteland that would fall apart. That is not how nations stay afloat, and no one is the right side 100% in any situation anyways.

Our governments utmost
priority is our own citizens protection.

If we devoted out entire nation to protecting everyone's life because otherwise they'll die and that is bad, we would be bankrupt within a year.

You say this as if to imply that this position (which I agree with) implies that the lives of people who are not citizens of a given country should have no inherent value to that country, and that's a logical leap I'm not following.
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There is a very easy argument to be made if that allied powers hadn't completely went overboard with Germany after WW1 that the rise in sentiment that happened there in the lead up to WW2 never happens and that economic situation it left Germany in was the direct cause.

How are you gonna argue something is 100% right.

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Corriks justifications for things are great for a laugh.

Corrik7 posted...

There is a very easy argument to be made if that allied powers hadn't completely went overboard with Germany after WW1 that the rise in sentiment that happened there in the lead up to WW2 never happens and that economic situation it left Germany in was the direct cause.

How are you gonna argue something is 100% right.

mister law and order, everybody
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Corrik7 posted...

There is a very easy argument to be made if that allied powers hadn't completely went overboard with Germany after WW1 that the rise in sentiment that happened there in the lead up to WW2 never happens and that economic situation it left Germany in was the direct cause.

How are you gonna argue something is 100% right.

If you want to take things THAT broadly, sure, I agree
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Corrik7 posted...

Our governments utmost
priority is our own citizens protection.

But then cant you also say that this sentiment is not 100% always right?
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Jakyl25 posted...

But then cant you also say that this sentiment is not 100% always right?

It is never 100% how to achieve that is.

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Corrik is making an argument for nonisolationist policies while arguing for isolationist policies.

Its definitely a weird step into moral relativism
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Well, if the US hadn't entered World War I Germany would have won and WWII would never have happened.

So we must conclude that once again, it was the fault of the Democrats as all evils are.
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Leafeon13N posted...

Corrik is making an argument for nonisolationist policies while arguing for isolationist policies.

I made an argument for nothing. He said to state how something was not 100%, and I stated literally common debate that exists regarding the events surrounding it.

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https://twitter.com/gabrielsherman/status/1181375337659273216?s=21

!

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https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1181377469498028037?s=21

Hannity: Impeachment will guarantee Trumps re-election

Also Hannity: Please call these Democrats and beg them not to impeach the president

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Wait so Turkey is already blindly attacking the Kurds in Syria before the US Troops have even left?

This is why you cant just do this shit without a plan and timetable
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