Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 241: Trump Goes Coup-Coup

(+) Yeah! (+)

What if China works with the Democrats to investigate Trump?
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1179925259417468928

asking other countries to dig up dirt on your political rivals is now the duty of the president

shame nobody told Obama
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The right got mad when the Obama administration tried to tell the trump campaign that they had been compromised by foreign interests, iirc
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I remember McConnel suggesting he would push back as a political hit job but I'm on phone and can't double check the exact phrasing
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For Republicans, this isn't about right or wrong. It's about winning. That's all they've ever cared about. Until they start losing, they don't care what crimes Trump commits. If it gives Republicans more power, it's good.
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Grimlyn posted...

I remember McConnel suggesting he would push back as a political hit job but I'm on phone and can't double check the exact phrasing

Does the exact phrasing really matter in this case?

nah but that's why I still posted the general gist without the double-check anyways!

it's more of a "i'm paraphrasing" disclaimer
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https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1179948641051648001

texts between Bill Taylor, Kurt Volker, and Gordon Sondland

looks very bad for Trump (sure makes it seem like there was a quid pro quo!)

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Like look at this shit:
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1179950770847911936

Very clear that Trump doing anything for Ukraine was conditional on Ukraine investigating Biden

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Dancedreamer posted...

For Republicans, this isn't about right or wrong. It's about winning. That's all they've ever cared about. Until they start losing, they don't care what crimes Trump commits. If it gives Republicans more power, it's good.

Its more about protecting all their wealthy friends tbh. Part of which they want to accomplish by making sure the poor have no choice but to die with no health care.
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1180094411323117568?s=21

As President I have an obligation to end CORRUPTION, even if that means requesting the help of a foreign country or countries. It is done all the time. This has NOTHING to do with politics or a political campaign against the Bidens. This does have to do with their corruption!

Does he know the 5th Amendment gives him the right to NOT incriminate himself?
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Lets pretend for a second that the accusations against Joe Biden are valid, rather than a trumped up conspiracy in which independent facts have their timelines crossed in order to make them seem sinister and calculated.

If that is the case, what exactly did Joe Biden do that Trump has NOT done with regards to this exact scandal? If Biden is corrupt and bad for using his political position as leverage against Ukraine for personal gain...why exactly is Trump different?
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Because shut up, that's why!
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Because he's part of the deep state, duh
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Espeon posted...

If that is the case, what exactly did Joe Biden do that Trump has NOT done with regards to this exact scandal? If Biden is corrupt and bad for using his political position as leverage against Ukraine for personal gain...why exactly is Trump different?

trump is breaking the law for good reasons (to dunk on libs) so he's cool like the punisher

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Espeon posted...

Lets pretend for a second that the accusations against Joe Biden are valid, rather than a trumped up conspiracy in which independent facts have their timelines crossed in order to make them seem sinister and calculated.

If that is the case, what exactly did Joe Biden do that Trump has NOT done with regards to this exact scandal? If Biden is corrupt and bad for using his political position as leverage against Ukraine for personal gain...why exactly is Trump different?

In that situation, Trump isn't doing it for personal gain, he's doing out of a genuine desire to stamp out corruption.

I mean, that's not hard to see.
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GildedFool posted...

In that situation, Trump isn't doing it for personal gain, he's doing out of a genuine desire to stamp out corruption.

I mean, that's not hard to see.

Only if you remove it out of context of the rest of Trump's administration, which is even more corrupt.

Which I guess is part of the problem, Republicans only have to prove Democrats are hypocrites to succeed. No one actually cares if they also fail these standards.

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GildedFool posted...

Espeon posted...

Lets pretend for a second that the accusations against Joe Biden are valid, rather than a trumped up conspiracy in which independent facts have their timelines crossed in order to make them seem sinister and calculated.

If that is the case, what exactly did Joe Biden do that Trump has NOT done with regards to this exact scandal? If Biden is corrupt and bad for using his political position as leverage against Ukraine for personal gain...why exactly is Trump different?

In that situation, Trump isn't doing it for personal gain, he's doing out of a genuine desire to stamp out corruption.

I mean, that's not hard to see.

I mean, it IS hard to see since Im capable of critical thinking and note that this only became an issue once Joe Biden entered the race and became a political rival. Note: not attacking you, though Im aware that my snarky tone comes across that way when Im directly responding to your post. Its more the complete lack of intelligence on the part of Trumps base that frustrates me.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

trump is breaking the law for good reasons (to dunk on libs) so he's cool like the punisher

insert picture of cop cars with Punisher stickers here
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Espeon posted...

I mean, it IS hard to see since Im capable of critical thinking and note that this only became an issue once Joe Biden entered the race and became a political rival. Note: not attacking you, though Im aware that my snarky tone comes across that way when Im directly responding to your post. Its more the complete lack of intelligence on the part of Trumps base that frustrates me.

You LITERALLY said "Lets pretend for a second that the accusations against Joe Biden are valid, rather than a trumped up conspiracy."

If Biden was in fact corrupt, it's completely reasonable for Trump to take the actions he did - assuming he did it for the right reasons.

Pressuring foreign governments to get their aid in punishing an American committing crimes overseas and bringing corrupt money back to the US *is* a reasonable thing to do.

Had it been a mob boss selling weapons (rather than a political rival's son who did literally nothing), the actions taken by the administration ARE completely reasonable. And that's how Trump is selling it to his base.

And your inability to see that doesn't show a capability of critical thinking, it shows the exact opposite.
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Youre misunderstanding. When I say critical thinking, I mean: Okay, Joe Biden is corrupt and Trump is investigating him for corruption. Fair enough. Though why did Trump only seem to give a shit about this corruption once Biden became a political adversary? This corruption took place during the Obama administration, so surely, this cant have been new information that only came out recently. That makes it seem less like Trump cracking down on corruption because its the right thing to do, and more like hes only doing it at a politically beneficial time to himself. Almost as if, had Joe Biden NOT entered the presidential race, Trump would have made no efforts to investigate this act of corruption.
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Because Trump is pressuring Ukraine to enforce the law. Biden was pressuring Ukraine to ignore the law (allegedly).
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Espeon posted...

Youre misunderstanding. When I say critical thinking, I mean: Okay, Joe Biden is corrupt and Trump is investigating him for corruption. Fair enough. Though why did Trump only seem to give a shit about this corruption once Biden became a political adversary? This corruption took place during the Obama administration, so surely, this cant have been new information that only came out recently. That makes it seem less like Trump cracking down on corruption because its the right thing to do, and more like hes only doing it at a politically beneficial time to himself. Almost as if, had Joe Biden NOT entered the presidential race, Trump would have made no efforts to investigate this act of corruption.

Trump might not have known about it until recently.
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That's not critical thinking though, that's your own personal bias and ignoring the fact that Trump's supporters also have biases.

Why couldn't that information have only just arisen? Police cold cases are occasionally solved decades after the crime.
If it was known previously, Trump could only have discovered it recently.
If Trump is doing this for political benefit, wouldn't it be more beneficial if he's been sitting on this information, to hold it for the general?
If you are a Trump supporter, it makes far more sense to take his statements at face value than "critically think" your way to the truth.
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The reality that people aren't talking about is that Ukraine is not known for the fairness of its justice system. Biden deserves a trial by a jury of his peers- in the United States Senate.
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It wouldn't be reasonable to leverage security in exchange for an investigation -- regardless of the results of the investigation. The ends do not justify the means.
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https://twitter.com/mittromney/status/1180151212030779392?s=21

just do it Mitt, youre so close

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Trumps Ukraine ask would be impeachable even if Biden was guilty

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GildedFool posted...

That's not critical thinking though, that's your own personal bias and ignoring the fact that Trump's supporters also have biases.

Why couldn't that information have only just arisen? Police cold cases are occasionally solved decades after the crime.
If it was known previously, Trump could only have discovered it recently.
If Trump is doing this for political benefit, wouldn't it be more beneficial if he's been sitting on this information, to hold it for the general?
If you are a Trump supporter, it makes far more sense to take his statements at face value than "critically think" your way to the truth.

Im sorry, but thats just asinine. Youre telling me that the guy who chanted lock her up all throughout his 2016 campaign, only to do absolutely NOTHING in terms of prosecuting his criminal opponent once he won the election...NOW he cares about ferreting out corruption from a case that is at LEAST three years old, and conveniently happens to pertain to his chief political rival, ONLY after said rival has established himself as not only running, but also solidly in contention to win the nomination? No. No, there is NOTHING he has done in the past three years that has earned him the benefit of the doubt as far as his actions go.

Hell, your own post mentions well if he was doing it for political benefit, wouldnt he sit on the information? You mean like he WAS doing until his back room dealings got exposed? Keep in mind, this wasnt Trump calls out Biden for corruption, and the FAKE NEWS tries to shift the blame onto Trump. This was Trump does something secretive and gets called out for it, only after which does he come up with this narrative about fighting corruption.
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GildedFool posted...

If Trump is doing this for political benefit, wouldn't it be more beneficial if he's been sitting on this information, to hold it for the general?

... do you not remember that this came out through a whistleblower?... the whistleblower Trump is desperately seeking to identify and publicly vilify?
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The thing you need to realize is that there are people who genuinely support Trump and they have reasons for doing so that makes sense to them. Regardless of how dumb you think those reasons are, it's very useful to take the time to try to understand their viewpoint.

Note that I'm not saying anything about the validity of said view, just that it's useful to try to figure out how people came to their conclusions.
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My dad thinks Trump is innocent, the only one who can save this country, and that he genuinely cares about him and every other working class person despite anything I can tell or show him. I made a joke about Trump declaring himself king and he said that hed make a great king and hed be proud to call him king despite claiming to love America and freedom. So I have no idea how he claim to those conclusions or what his thought process is whatsoever except Trump good communism bad.

In the most charitable cases, its because those people believe lies fed to them for years by conservative media, that Trump then amplified and took the offensive on.

And based on these latest developments about investigating Biden, it seems TRUMP believes the lies too.
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I mean that's an empty comment to make without at all going into what those reasons are and what brought them to it.

Everything people support they have a "reason for doing so that makes sense to them", and there's plenty of studies on what lies behind Trump support - and it's not good. Such as yes, the Fox News effect (and social media).
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If you can't see why people support Trump, you are part of the reason they do.
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As I've been saying for ages, Trump is just a mirror. The beholder sees themselves. Corrupt Democrats see corruption. Virtuous working class people see a hero.
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red sox 777 posted...

If you can't see why people support Trump, you are part of the reason they do.

When we say what we see, you get defensive and whine about how being called deplorable or racist is the worst injustice ever experienced by any person in American history.
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Espeon posted...

red sox 777 posted...

If you can't see why people support Trump, you are part of the reason they do.

When we say what we see, you get defensive and whine about how being called deplorable or racist is the worst injustice ever experienced by any person in American history.

That's why I say that you can't see why people support Trump. What you see is wrong. And also, you exaggerate.
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red sox 777 posted...

As I've been saying for ages, Trump is just a mirror. The beholder sees themselves. Corrupt Democrats see corruption. Virtuous working class people see a hero.

So what does it mean for you that you see him as a mirror?

Are you just a sentient infinite regression?
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Jakyl25 posted...

red sox 777 posted...

As I've been saying for ages, Trump is just a mirror. The beholder sees themselves. Corrupt Democrats see corruption. Virtuous working class people see a hero.

So what does it mean for you that you see him as a mirror?

Are you just a sentient infinite regression?

More or less.
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https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/1179944485758918656

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As Kierkegaard says, "the self is a relation which relates itself to its own self, or it is that in the relation that the relation relates itself to its own self; the self is not the relation but that the relation relates itself to its own self."
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red sox all the way down
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so with Warren's funding numbers out we've got all the relevant numbers released

Bernie: $25.3m
Warren: $24.6m
Pete: $19.1m
Biden: $15.2m
Kamala: $11.6m
Yang: $10m
Booker: $6m
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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/1179944485758918656

Absolutely incredible.

https://twitter.com/jimlaporta/status/1180173265551142913?s=21

genuinely impressive how bad Jacob Wohl is at this

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https://twitter.com/maggienyt/status/1180143762649096193?s=21

Well, that settles it, then! All you have to do to make it not quid pro quo is say there wasnt any whod pro quo, call me after a guy whos uncomfortable with what youre doing points out that all of this stuff sure seems like quid pro quo!

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SCOTUS takes up an abortion case that could overturn precedent literally from 2016:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/10/supreme-court-takes-new-abortion-case/599443/

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Adam Serwer has been doing some writing on the mindset of Trump supporters and Republicans and I kind of think he nails part of it

https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1179816367077376001?s=19

There's more to it in the article but just the excerpt there is the tldr

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/maggienyt/status/1180143762649096193?s=21

Well, that settles it, then! All you have to do to make it not quid pro quo is say there wasnt any whod pro quo, call me after a guy whos uncomfortable with what youre doing points out that all of this stuff sure seems like quid pro quo!

The Democrats still haven't gone after Hillary for her quid pro quo though.
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