Board 8 > Umineko Playthrough Topic Part 7

(+) Yeah! (+)

GANON1025 posted...

That's an interesting perspective. Don't you think sitting through a 100+ story is enough of a lead in to get actual answers?

it's a pacing thing.

episode 6 had a major climax, but ended on a cliffhanger.

and then, as the action grinds to a total halt, we start a new chapter and just slowly start going through the answers via long exposition monologues.

it's not very exciting.

and also, just, if the answer is that, then it's like... so explicitly spelled out that i don't even need to see the rest of the explanation. it's practically spelled out from the moment shannon refuses to get kanon in the same room as her.

if that's what it is.

if not, then this is fine, though still really awkward paced and really awkward to have it happening without any sort of climax from the main characters.

That's funny. I think at this point in the story I was done with all the games, with characters like Battler claiming to know the answers but never actually saying them. I was done waiting for the story to decide I had earned the right to know. If anything, I wanted this sequence to be MORE spelled out.
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yes, I agree with you its been pretty lame to have characters all saying they know the answer but no one actually saying them

but i'd get through that by basically

well

for example

i'd extend episode 6 into 7

i'd continue to have the characters argue about how kanon could've saved battler from that room

i'd continue the battle of red and blue truths

and i'd have characters, right then and there, at that "trial" (or, wedding now, rather) debate the theories and eventually reveal the truth in a climactic, shocking moment

y'know, sort of like how phoenix wright and danganronpa cases work

instead, episode 6 just ends with no resolution, and then episode 7 starts and says "okay, all the main characters are gone, and there's no tension, but we're just going to slowly, slowly, very very very slowly, explain everything to you, from the PoV of some new characters"

now i guess the argument some would make (and that some people seemingly have made_ is that i was supposed to be able to solve everything by the end of ep 4, or at least by the end of ep 5, and if not then, then the final red truth of ep 6 was meant to give me the answer (which it did?)

like, the perfect format, to me, for having these big answers revealed, would be if we revisited a scene like the ep4 "tea party" (battler vs beatrice in the garden) or ep5's trial

and had a big battle there, during which truths come out.

that said, IF the answer is the one we've been talking about, then this is very spelled out imo, it can't get any more spelled out.

but i'm hoping it's something else, still.

oh yes, "gaap possessed me and made me murder someone"

sure

I think Episode 6 has problems all over the place. Opening with showing Battler almost braindead about to "marry" Erika as a flash-forward meant that, for me at least, I spent the rest of the episode "waiting" for that moment to occur which made a lot of stuff like the love games feel even more dragged out than usual.
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I actually like episode 6's foreshadowing. i loved the moment I realized that the marriage+chained room must be because battler is about to commit a logic error, and linking the fact that the magical room was that guest room, and so is the room battler died in

but again, if this IS the answer (to the why and the who, though we're far from getting to the how just yet), then it's also just like...

how did i get that answer?

i got it because i thought about the riddle posed by ep 6's final red truth, and then the game confirmed the answer to me like 20 minutes into episode 7 by having shannon glitch out

so it basically felt... well, it just felt "easy" to come to that conclusion. and it wasn't very satisfying if that's the answer to the entire game and then after having it (what felt like) handed to me, i have to watch it slowly being explained over the next 5 hours.

but i don't know if that's the answer or not so we can't talk about it

that said, i guess i'm upsetting people by feeling this way, so, whatever. we'll see.

again, if this isn't the answer, and there's something more, then this is all fantastic misdirection and i'm sure i will be very satisfied by whatever the twist and true answer is.

You're not upsetting people! Well, not me at least.
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i suppose that may be what the end of ep 6 was intended as. sort of a "if you haven't figured it out by now, here's the final key you need"

because if you follow through the thinking of how there can be only 16 and get to the answer i did, then it all fits in to place. at least, the who and the why (sort of), not the how.

though this flashback is massively expanding on the "Why", it is still still essentially because "being a young servant was a rough life and so they bullied people because they were bullied", which is what i'd have imagined a motive would be like anyway

GANON1025 posted...

You're not upsetting people! Well, not me at least.

I see. It sounded like you were upset that I was criticizing the game.

but of course, I'm not criticizing it. I'm criticizing it on a conditional. It may be totally fooling me right now.

(though I'll still find episode 7's structure very weird regardless, i'm sure)

"As I powerlessly watched the witch control me, ...I couldn't help but surrender myself to this new joy called magic..."

considering Gaap is involved I'm not sure if this is straightforward or if this 10 year old kid is actually imagining a sexual fantasy

how do you steal a single key off the ring in someone's pocket and then transport it to their locker all without leaving the room you're in together though?

are we gonna get an answer to this riddle...?

poor gaap, she loses the name of beatrice and gets relegated just to being a nameless friend

and so yasu, creating beatrice, is basically just playing dress up lol

can we flash back to the times i said that the rules of magic all felt like they were being made up on the spot by a child

because that's exactly what's happening in front of me right now

https://snag.gy/AZpRUJ.jpg

yes, that certainly is what has been happening over 6 episodes

now, the question is, do bern and lambda (and featherine?) also exist as things that yasu created, or is that layer really a layer above

yasu erases themself from shannon's memories, and from history

but of course, that's not... how things actually work.

sadly, this flashback is now veering off into 100% fantasy, which means it's no longer reliable.

what actualyl happens to yasu?

is it as simple as shannon not existing, and yasu becoming kanon and/or shannon...?

maybe i really am missing something after all...

the left behind shannon thinks about how she has "school" tomorrow, and then wants to talk to kumasawa about mystery novels

so...

is shannon the alternate-universe lion?

was yasu the made up one?

was shannon real and yasu was imaginary...?

i don't really get it

the only thing safe to say is that there's totally something up with the servants. lol.

Either way... the Beatrice we spend 5-6 episodes with... isn't really like this 8-year old playing dressup. She's matured. And there's something between her and Battler. and "Yasu" would never have met Battler or have a reason to be in love with him. So. Hm.

I guess you're right, there is more to spell out. =P

Shannon is directly interacting with Natsuhi and the others now

hm

But Shannon definitely never interacted with anyone in the first set of flashbacks

coincidence, or?

and then in the second set of servants (asmo and beelze), they interacted with both yasu and shannon...?

maybe yasu really did kill shannon and take over her identity after all

i don't really know LOL

when will asked shannon to get kanon and she glitched out

will described it as if

when you're playing chess, and you're about to put yourself into checkmate, so your strong opponent shows mercy and says "are you sure you want to do that"

but will wouldn't have been putting himself in checkmate then, would he? he'd be putting the mastermind in checkmate

so why describe it that way....?

i won't lie, dressing the golden witch in white, with white hair, didn't make a lot of sense. no wonder you switched over to blonde.

basically the question is:

is shannon featured so heavily in this flashback because it's about "yasu", who is a servant, and naturally was friends with shannon?

or because shannon herself is the mastermind, and this is misdirection, to make you think "oh, this flashback is about yasu, not shannon" but it really is about shannon

but if shannon and kanon are the same person, when are we gonna get to that, lol

and why would shannon invent a male alter-ego who only drags her down and abuses her?

i want virgilia to show up =P

will that be the next iteration of beatrice?

also how does ronove get created?!

like i said, when this flashback was rooted in reality it was easy to follow, now its just magic shit which means i don't have a clue what it's saying anymore.

so you were right, this could be more spelled out LOL

honestly i have no idea what's going on anymore

i don't know what this tea party between yasu-beatrice and shannon represents

i don't know which of them is real and which isn't

but yasu-beatrice seems pretty mad at shannon.

maybe NOW is when they kill her and take her place? lol

hm. apparently shannon doesn't wanna stay in magic land, seemingly because she already loves george...?

well this is hard then. that doesn't feel very mastermind-y of shannon?

but maybe yasu will take over shannon's life and force themself to like george as well...?

hm

i mean, something has to be up with shannon, right? she doesn't age!

i guess no one else looks different in these flashbacks either, but they're adults. shannon is like 18 in present day. she should be 10 and certainly not have such a big chest in these flashbacks!

ah.

so... in magical terms...

yasu realizes that what shannon likes about the real world is love (with george)

and so, at this family conference when battler was 13 and maria was 4, or whatever, battler will say he wants a blonde haired girl or w/e, and yasu will then transform again into the new beatrice?

or... hm

idk

the more this goes on the more i think we're in the universe where you're all laughing at me for thinking shannon and kanon are the same person =P

We're laughing with you.
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but yasu has to go somewhere. if the answer is just "oh, yasu was the 17th person, they were hidden the whole time, but hey, all we said is that there's no more than 17, we never denied there could be a hidden person hahaha" then its sort of...

but either way, someone else has to be missing. so.

Team Rocket Elite posted...

We're laughing with you.

i don't know waht this means, but, like

if that's not the case, then the game must want me to have thought it.

otherwise why pull the "oh no, shannon and kanon can't be in the same room together or the universe will implode" trick

god, i'm so tempted to open up previous chapters and see if they were ever in the same room

but just remembering the "they invited JUST ME, KANON, to play cards with them" with shannon not being invited feels like it seals it...

but how tf could george and jessica fall in love with the same person lmao

plus, i don't remember the timelines stated in the past for how long shannon and kanon were there

but i do know kanon treats shannon like a younger sister, and does that even make sense if she was already working there for like 10 years and he was just starting...?

it is worth noting that this episode started with will saying that the maid didn't do it

god, does every character in this story love mystery novels

this is like layton 1 all over again

apparently, young battler also ranted about how mystery novels care about the whodunnit and howdunnit but not the why

so is battler will?

who is will?

lol

whatever

god i can never tell with this game if parallels are just thematic or if they actually mean something