Board 8 > Umineko readthrough part 4 by Arria (blind) and Kira (2nd reading) SPOILERS OKAY

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Eerieka
11/16/19 8:01:17 AM
#151:


Dlanor refers to herself as a human and we spend a good minute trying to figure out THAT context. She did say ningen in Japanese, so it wasnt a translation error. Weird.

The Chiesters ask for the characters invitation. Dlanor gives her hers.
A: Like theres ANYONE else who looks like her!

Gaap asks her to respond to the blue truth
Dlanor: Please fill out the application
A: I love my rules lawyer characters. This reminds me of something in the Dresden Files. Yes, Dresden, youre in MY court now. Please continue fucking with me.
Strike-through and white out is also prohibited!
Chiester 410: They say the same thing applies to Comiket!
A: Um, Ryukishi? Are you okay, honey?

K: I always think of this scene when you talk about Dlanor being a rules-lawyer
A: God she is my FAVORITE little murder hobo right now!

A: Guess what, numb nuts? She just GAVE you the answer. She said in red that she cant answer that!

Featherine and Ange
Ange: Doesnt this violate the rules!?
A: Also: YOURE THE AUTHOR
Ange: You cant give a quiz and then refuse to give the answer!
A: Lack of an answer IS an answer!

Ange: So what happens next?
A: Porn for Erika. Note I dont specify which Erika
K: *chuckles* BOTH of us.
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Mega Mana
11/17/19 8:41:32 AM
#152:


A: Oh, is it because its raining? Good luck putting tape on a wet window!

...****, I wish I thought of that...
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Eerieka
11/17/19 9:22:15 AM
#153:


It makes sense, too. Sometimes I get so caught up in Umineko logic I forget to real-world logic.
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Mega Mana
11/17/19 1:02:28 PM
#154:


Eerieka posted...
It makes sense, too. Sometimes I get so caught up in Umineko logic I forget to real-world logic.


Right??

There's is one thing in the locked room later I still feel is a justifiable theory and want to posit around thst time
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Eerieka
11/20/19 11:04:34 AM
#155:


Would love to hear it, Mega Mana. Don't forget to mention it when the time comes. :)

~~~

The wedding begins.
K: This might be my favorite wedding in all fiction
A: I mean, we started with Chiesters and Dlanor on screen!

Furfur and Zepar announce: Let us welcome the bride and groom as they walk down the hall in the shackles called marriage!
Arria nearly CHOKES on the coconut snack shes eating.
A: Im glad I didnt read this prior to my own wedding.

The stakes come in behind Erika and Battler. They are all complaining about Battler being dumb
A: I adore the stakes
Then Beelzebub and Asmodeus only care about food and love
A: *snort* These two

Lambda and Bern make a bet on whether Beato will come
Lambda: I bet she comes with certainty
Bern: I bet she comes miraculously
A: *laughs* You two are assholes

Zepar and Furfur: On behalf of the groom who cannot speak, let Erika say the oath for both of them!
K: Because THATS how weddings work!
A: Uh-huh!
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Eerieka
11/25/19 12:36:48 PM
#156:


bump. Haven't read with Arria in a while. Gonna have to drag it out even more.
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Eerieka
11/29/19 11:05:50 AM
#157:


We get the picture of Battler on his knees and his hand in Erikas.
A; I love this picture.
K: Me too Also, the game starts now.
A; *perks up*

The ring has eight thorns. Eight is kinda like. my number, which Arria picked up on right away
A: I like that is has eight you bitch.

This scene is basically a rape scene, but my god do I love it.
A: I love how Ryukishi turned the usual trope around. Usually its the bride whos all like oh my god, its. its too big! Itll never fit! And here its the bride doing it to the groom.
K: Yep!
A: Wow, these are lines from just about every bodice-ripper ever written but in reverse! Impressive work.

Erika: Say Forgive me, Erika-sama. Ill pretend to be a dog and wear a collar if youll make me not have to wear that ring!
A: Is this the line?
K: Thats the line! You win!
A: Oh good! Because there have been times thats like oh, thats a good line but no, not perfect. This one is perfect! It SCREAMS Erika. Both of you!
K: Yes!
K: Also, my headcanon for this scene is that the ring is actually a cock-ring
A: Oh yeah, same here! I dont know what that says about both of us.

After the ring has been jammed in
A: Didnt I say earlier on that there are easier ways to get a ring off? Butter or something? I rescind that statement.
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Eerieka
12/02/19 9:19:19 PM
#158:


A: Oh, theres a dark thought. They keep saying the bullet will kill anything it touches. What if Shannon aims at Jessica? That would essentially kill Kanon.
K: Hmm. Yeah, it would. I dont know if the demons set out a rule that the bullets can only kill the combatants.

Back to the duel, and Beatrice is freaking out over why Shannon and Kanon have to fight because why cant they just be in love and live their own lives?
A: Honestly, the trope of the love triangle is pissing me off in fiction in general.

Beatrice: But there are four people here!
Furfur and Zepar: Actually furniture is sub-human!
A: Oh man, there are so many racist jokes that could go here. Ill refrain.

A: Also, I imagine Shannon and Kanon are just waiting around like.. *Arria gets up to get something in the kitchen. Which standing, she poses the way she imagines them standing, waiting* Shannons gonna be like Were trying to have a duel here! Give your history lesson some other time!
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Bossman_Coolguy
12/05/19 5:18:46 PM
#159:


So I brought up this briefly on discord but I figured I'd ask here:

Knox's 5th Commandent was omitted from the Decalogue. "No Chinaman (foreigner)" can appear in the story.

I was thinking while at work...maybe it was omitted because Erika actually is the foreigner in the story? I mean she does randomly kinda appear out of nowhere, being written to survive a boat crash or whatever. I originally thought it was because it was racist/they're all Japanese but yeah


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Eerieka
12/07/19 2:25:40 AM
#160:


Like the other instances of the Decalogue, I think the 5th technically IS in Umineko, even if the game itself says it's "unused." Consider the spirit of the advice, rather than what it literally means.

I think Knox's inclusion of the rule was twofold. First, there were a lot of racist portrayals of Chinese people in novels back in his day and he felt it was damaging the integrity of a mystery novel for the culprit to be a racist stereotype.

But secondly, I think there's an essence of "your characters need to have comprehensible motives to your audience." Knox wants readers to have a chance at solving the mystery, but if the final "whydunnit" is something like "this foreign person believed that killing a virgin girl during a full moon and eating her pancreas will make him immortal", then no Westerner is going to figure that out on their own.

I think the reason the rule was excluded in Umineko was because no one was a foreigner to the intended Japanese audience (I would say Erika is Japanese, even in a witchy/fictional sense), but moreover because Sayo's reason for committing murder isn't culture-specific (to a culture unknown to most Japanese).

It's also possibly Ryukishi wasn't sure how to rewrite the rule to fit his story while also inserting it in any meaningful way. Trying to imagine any scene where Battler would come up with an idea, only for Dlanor to shoot it down with this rule, and I can't think of anything.

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JeffreyRaze
12/08/19 1:16:53 PM
#161:


"The culprit was a Martian, using space technology! They were murdering to get blood to fuel the mothership! Aliens don't count as people, so the Martain isn't one of the people on the island!"

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Eerieka
12/09/19 5:01:32 AM
#162:


JeffreyRaze posted...
"The culprit was a Martian, using space technology! They were murdering to get blood to fuel the mothership! Aliens don't count as people, so the Martain isn't one of the people on the island!"

I would have loved to see Battler use this at some point, actually, even if just as a joke. And yeah, that would have been a good way to include the 5th rule.

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