Board 8 > Smash Ultimate Topic 3: Brawl

(+) Yeah! (+)

Alright let's try again
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Fuck sakurai and fuck Isabelle/piranhaplant/incineroar/chrome/armpit/corrin
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I'm hyped. I haven't played Smash since Melee, so lack of story mode or whatever doesn't really phase me. And I get really odd Dynasty Warriors vibes from the spirit stuff, though I don't really know how to explain it.
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I thought they were doing a whole new set of Amiibos for every character, but apparently they're just reprinting the existing ones and adding the newcomers. Which probably means still no Girl Robin, which is a shame. But fingers crossed I can get Girl Corrin for less than the price of a brand new AAA console game.
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calling it now: Square-Enix DLC character is the Quiet Man
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I'm gonna say fans were definitely led on.

Even if Nintendo didn't mean to at first they should have figured it out real quick.
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tbqh Nintendo could have been as careful as they could be and somebody would have claimed to have found Isaac in K Rool's scales or Wario's bacne or something
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Elite battles though.

Thats my jam. Limits are meant to be broken
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StealThisSheen posted...

tbqh Nintendo could have been as careful as they could be and somebody would have claimed to have found Isaac in K Rool's scales or Wario's bacne or something

Obtuse af
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yeah they seemed to specifically build up hype that they knew wasn't ever going to be met

it honestly makes me glad they deconfirmed Waluigi early; building up hype as a possibility for that long only to shut it down is so frustrating and negative toward fans that it seems intentional

like why announce echoes, and then specifically take out Shadow from the assist trophy list? You know exactly what people will assume, so why give false hope?

even worse with Isaac, if you know he's one of the most wanted characters, why pretend he has a chance for so long?
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StealThisSheen posted...

tbqh Nintendo could have been as careful as they could be and somebody would have claimed to have found Isaac in K Rool's scales or Wario's bacne or something

If a character shows up as an Assist Trophy, I think they fanbase is usually pretty good at placing the fault on the person who still doesn't believe the character won't be playable.
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pjbasis posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

tbqh Nintendo could have been as careful as they could be and somebody would have claimed to have found Isaac in K Rool's scales or Wario's bacne or something

Obtuse af

I'm still bitter I literally tried to show people that the Healing Sprout was the same sprout as the healing item and they accused me of altering the image/trying to be dishonest and said I was blind for not seeing how "obv Golden Sun" it was

On this board even

Jerks
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I mean I didn't buy into any of the hype either.

I knew better. Also expected a smash 4 port so its alllll gravy
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I'm confused. Where's Goku?
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StealThisSheen posted...

pjbasis posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

tbqh Nintendo could have been as careful as they could be and somebody would have claimed to have found Isaac in K Rool's scales or Wario's bacne or something

Obtuse af

I'm still bitter I literally tried to show people that the Healing Sprout was the same sprout as the healing item and they accused me of altering the image/trying to be dishonest and said I was blind for not seeing how "obv Golden Sun" it was

On this board even

Jerks

You know, I was in this topic too and I don't remember any of that happening.

I remember a calm and rational discussion which included multiple people acknowledging that it didn't look exactly like the Golden Sun images but was close enough to be plausible and bringing up what at the time was a logical question of "if it's the same as the healing item, why didn't they reveal it with the healing item or mention it with the healing item on the website afterwards?"

So I really don't understand this victim complex.
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NBIceman posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

pjbasis posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

tbqh Nintendo could have been as careful as they could be and somebody would have claimed to have found Isaac in K Rool's scales or Wario's bacne or something

Obtuse af

I'm still bitter I literally tried to show people that the Healing Sprout was the same sprout as the healing item and they accused me of altering the image/trying to be dishonest and said I was blind for not seeing how "obv Golden Sun" it was

On this board even

Jerks

You know, I was in this topic too and I don't remember any of that happening.

I remember a calm and rational discussion which included multiple people acknowledging that it didn't look exactly like the Golden Sun images but was close enough to be plausible and bringing up what at the time was a logical question of "if it's the same as the healing item, why didn't they reveal it with the healing item or mention it with the healing item on the website afterwards?"

So I really don't understand this victim complex.

KP flat out said I rotated the image to try and make them look the same
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I'm just gonna throw in my two cents on everything now that I've had time to process and I'm sure everyone's been on the edge of their seat waiting to see what I have to say.

First, before anyone accuses me of just being salty that I didn't get the exact characters I wanted, whether from the Grinch leak or in general, I want to say that every character that I really, really wanted is either already in or never had a realistic chance of getting in (at least the base roster of) Ultimate. I could champion for Vaati or Klonoa or Micaiah until I was blue in the face, but they all had their best chances in prior games or never had a prayer to begin with.

So when I judge the Ultimate newcomers, I'm doing it entirely on their own merit. And I personally find them extremely underwhelming. I understand why people are disappointed. Simon and Richter are cool, I guess, but I'm nowhere near a Castlevania superfan so that's more about the novelty than anything. And as much as I dislike Incineroar as a Pokemon, it'll be fun to have a grappler and the pro wrestling fan in me is honestly excited to dropkick and german suplex and LARIATOOOO my friends. But it's hard to ignore that there weren't really that many fans that wanted him. If you're into Ridley or K. Rool, good for you, but I have no personal investment in their games and thus no personal investment in them. Inkling was an obvious choice, but not one I think many people were exactly clamoring for. And then the rest are echoes, so there's not much to say about them.

All that being said, no character inclusion in Smash has never annoyed or angered or otherwise upset me, because it always seemed obvious that the oft-repeated cries of "wasted slot" were misguided. I never subscribed to the idea that the developers went in with a number in their head of playable characters and put candidates on the chopping block from there, but rather just included whoever they want, which has proved to be the case.

But now today we get the fucking Piranha Plant. Folks, this is a wasted slot. Sakurai acknowledged in the Direct that Smash is seen as the ultimate crossover. It's a fanservice-based game. What is the point of putting in a generic enemy from a series that already has a huge amount of representation? What kind of crossing over is that? What fans are they serving? Ask 10,000 or 100,000 or even a million people and I can't imagine you'll find more than one or two that would honestly say, given the choice, that there's no character in video games that they would take over Piranha Plant.

So you've already disappointed a lot of fans by confirming that the not-that-interesting Ken and Incineroar are the last two base fighters, disappointed many further by showing Assist Trophies of highly-requested characters that you've apparently kept hidden intentionally to create false hope, and then set a poor precedent for the eventual DLC that might have given them some actual hope to take away by starting it off with the Plant.

I don't care whether you're personally satisfied with the roster or not. It's inarguable that this was mishandled by Nintendo and people being upset about it are perfectly justified.

Spirits looks awesome, and the hypest part of the whole Direct for me was the remix of We're the Robots that showed up, but again, when the whole point of the game is fanservice, the characters are the most important part and they really vomited all over themselves on that front.
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KP flat out said I rotated the image to try and make them look the same

I must've missed that. Yeah, that was a dumb thing to say. Carry on, I suppose.
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I'm not actually going to carry on, for the record. I've only made like, 2-3 posts about it. I'm just being dramatic because that's the turn these topics took.
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Honestly, out of all the things I'm disappointed with, Piranha Plant is probably the thing I'm least-disappointed about. At first I was like "WTF?" then I thought "this is at least unpredictable, but has neither the obscurity nor the 'fills a missing niche' factor of something like Wii Fit Trainer." Then as the day went on it really started to fester in me that this is the exact kind of Sakurai-like trolling that I've come to know and love. I honestly think this is kinda funny. And frankly he's one of the newcomers that I'm actually a tiny bit excited for.
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I still believe in the Grinch
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I've seen the "Piranha Plant sets a bad precedent for DLC" argument a few places, but I don't really get it

It's free DLC that isn't part of the pack. They last time they did DLC, they gave very highly requested characters. Why would Piranha Plant being a free character make people assume the paid DLC will be bad?
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StealThisSheen posted...

I've seen the "Piranha Plant sets a bad precedent for DLC" argument a few places, but I don't really get it

It's free DLC that isn't part of the pack. They last time they did DLC, they gave very highly requested characters. Why would Piranha Plant being a free character make people assume the paid DLC will be bad?

I'm not saying I personally believe it. But the fact that people do is a problem. You don't want anti-hype for paid DLC before it begins.

Piranha Plant is just a perfect storm of silliness to me. In a vacuum, it would still irritate me, but not to this degree. It's the fact that he was introduced ten minutes after the Assist Trophy massacre, which itself was twenty minutes after an underwhelming reveal of the final two base characters, and not long after talking about the series as (paraphrasing) "the ultimate crossover with many possibilities." Like, you know it's a fanservice game. Everything else you've done for the game proves it. What's the reasoning for including something that literally no fan was asking for?
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Piranha Plant rules, though
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Guys he is Petey not a piranha plant.
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Game still has Kirby that's all that matters to me
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StealThisSheen posted...

KP flat out said I rotated the image to try and make them look the same

No, I said it had been rotated. I didn't say you did it nor was I trying to imply that.
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Sorozone posted...

Guys he is Petey not a piranha plant.

Pfft. He only summons Petey.

That Piranha Plant is his own man.

Or plant.
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I mean you just said "many possibilities"

where else are we gonna get an actual Piranha Plant to fight with

Unique silliness and inventiveness > fan favorite characters imo but that's where you have to decide what sort of player you are. For someone like KP fan favorite characters should take the ultimate preference, but I'm not as strict as that.
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Piranha Plant is something I would have never asked for, but now that I've seen it, I really want to use it.

Much moreso than like, Duck Hunt or ROB.
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

Unique silliness and inventiveness > fan favorite characters imo but that's where you have to decide what sort of player you are. For someone like KP fan favorite characters should take the ultimate preference, but I'm not as strict as that.

I know Incineroar was your most wanted but you can't tell me, even if you're going for uniqueness and inventiveness, that there wasn't a #2 somewhere in the vast universe of video games that you would have preferred over PP.

You can pretty easily serve both masters there.
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Piranha Plant > anything from the Grinch leak.
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Honestly, not really. I was going for Incineroar or bust. Actually no, Artorais from Dark Souls would have been my #2 as outlandish as that is.

And if Incineroar had not gotten in like I seriously thought he wouldn't, I'd be sad but still be extremely excited for the game with having people like Wolf, Ridley, K Rool, and 70 other fighters to play as. And that World of Light story looks amazing.
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piranha plant is incredible
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And yea I actually REALLY dig Piranha Plant
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NBIceman posted...

What's the reasoning for including something that literally no fan was asking for?

Because that's how you create new things for people to be fans of.

This is the main problem the haters have and why they will always be angry at game creators. Gamers didn't create Smash. That's not how fanservice works. Their polls and posts didn't get the characters in the game. The creators are the ones who created it, sometimes using player feedback only when they feel it's necessary. That's how it works. They're trying to create something that they like, and that people will buy. Not for online nerds who play games 10% as much as they scream about them (although the marketing team does care about that).

The fact that you people can't comprehend the very basic concept that you might actually like this damn character (like all the other characters you ended up liking), is reason enough why it's fucking great that you have no say in the design of this game. Absolutely no vision, no creativity.
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Don't know if it's been posted yet since I don't feel like going through 1000 posts, but here's the Japanese version of that end of Direct cinematic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_wCTTyZsLI" data-time="

And the Japanese theme itself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiI7wTGV6Go" data-time="
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That winged thing reminds me a lot of some of the angels in SMT.
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Alright, fine, I'll drop the discussion then.

To be clear, this is still a day 1 purchase for me. There's a lot that I absolutely love about it and I fully expect it to be my favorite in the series when it's all said and done. I'm just saying that I also understand why some people are upset and I don't think it's fair to view them all as whiny haters who don't know what they're talking about.
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Honestly the roster was already perfect the second they revealed everyone is here!

Anything after that was a bonus

100% down for piranha plant idgaf
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I actually rather like Piranha Plant, but the final smash should've been Naval Piranha from Yoshi's Island.

http://yoshi.wikia.com/wiki/Naval_Piranha
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Outside of new characters Nintendo has reached the stage where everyone of note is here so anyone else is fluff.

So of course the new roster was always going to be weak.
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Yeah I get that the way it went down, the reveal of plant could feel insulting, but it looks damn interesting.

I mever realized how versatile they could be. Let me see a stalfos or octorok next!
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At least if we get a stalfos we finally get a Zelda character that isn't Link, Zelda or Ganondorf.
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Why did we do a new topic already?

Nevertheless, whoever said PP is like ROB and Duck Hunt I think hit the nail on the head. While super random I think he looks super fun the play as his moveset just seems so goofy.
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Lets not forget geno and banjo kazooie would have fun movesets too!
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pjbasis posted...

Lets not forget geno and banjo kazooie would have fun movesets too!

BK maybe but would Geno? I've played Mario RPG there really isnt that much there besides nostalgia.
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I mean let's be real ANY character that the Smash Bros team decides "hey let's put them in the game" would have a default-level fun and interesting moveset. They're not gonna drop the ball really on any of them.
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Piranha Plant is a fantastic addition and I can't wait to play as... him? It?

I totally get people being upset that their characters didn't get in, especially after the Grinch stuff. Hell, I believed in the Grinch and wanted it to be real quite badly, so I was a bit sad at first but what we actually got is still pretty great. I think too many people look at a "fanservice game" and take it as "this game needs to give me everything that I personally want or it's a total disappointment." There are lots of other fans out there!

And in the first place, just because a game is fanservice-heavy doesn't mean the creators are obliged to people making a bunch of noise. Sure Isaac was a highly requested character, but if they want to throw in something weird like the Piranha Plant instead (which in turn actually creates more fans of those weird characters) then that's their right!
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

I mean let's be real ANY character that the Smash Bros team decides "hey let's put them in the game" would have a default-level fun and interesting moveset. They're not gonna drop the ball really on any of them.

Sonic

I realize there's not a whole lot there to work with either, but I still think it counts.
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