Board 8 > Fourpack of Fun: Auron/Vivi, Tifa/Squall

(+) Yeah! (+)

Let's see how many people think Vivi's CBIX success is sustainable!

Also, I'm planning to do a near elite poll with Nintendo characters, so feel free to nominate the four you think should be in it!
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I think Vivi can beat Auron simply because the classic black mage design lets him win the picture battle by default, and Squall should be the strongest character here by a sizable margin
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Panthera posted...

I think Vivi can beat Auron simply because the classic black mage design lets him win the picture battle by default, and Squall should be the strongest character here by a sizable margin

Pretty much this.
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since these are all FF characters, at least one of the three matches reeks of upset tbqh
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please kh3 have a final fantasy trailer that makes squall look the coolest
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I voted for the one that beat Mario.
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Usually I wouldn't pick anything FFVII in a debatable match, but Tifa just seems immune to that decline for some reason. (OK, two reasons.) Took Auron in the first match solely because it seems like B8 will massively favor Vivi even though it's a tough one to call.
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There's no way Squall doesn't win this fourpack.

I came into this topic think there's no way it's anything but Squall > Auron, but then I remembered Vivi > Mario. Even with a heavy rally and LFF, that's too impressive to ignore. I still say Auron if Vivi doesn't get rallied, but a rally could do it.
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vivi was a fluke come at me.

Squall > Auron let's go.

No, seriously, Vivi/Mario was an anomaly.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Also, I'm planning to do a near elite poll with Nintendo characters, so feel free to nominate the four you think should be in it!

I feel like we've seen a lot of those permutations though but maybe I just imagined it (i have imagined entire matches before so this is possible)

idk... Bowser, Charizard, Zelda, ...Kirby? Don't want to double up with Luigi, Ganondorf, or Pokemon.
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Panthera posted...

I think Vivi can beat Auron simply because the classic black mage design lets him win the picture battle by default, and Squall should be the strongest character here by a sizable margin

Honestly, it's hard to beat Auron in a picture battle. Dude's got one of the best designs in the series. I can't imagine Vivi could beat him just by having a better picture.

also as a Squall fan I probably fear Tifa most out of the other three

it's kind of hard to nail down with certainty exactly how strong she is
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xp1337 posted...

I feel like we've seen a lot of those permutations though but maybe I just imagined it (i have imagined entire matches before so this is possible)

idk... Bowser, Charizard, Zelda, ...Kirby? Don't want to double up with Luigi, Ganondorf, or Pokemon.

Yeah, I figured one each from Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, and then Kirby would be good. I'm just not sure who people think are the strongest non-Noble Nine reps from Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon though. I think it's generally accepted that Ganondorf > Zelda, but who knows.
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I think Ganon > Zelda is the accepted opinion, yeah. Don't know if BotW could have somehow moved the needle on that (I wouldn't think so but) just chose her because I think I'd take Ganon to win the pack and Zelda makes it more interesting.
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xp1337 posted...

idk... Bowser, Charizard, Zelda, ...Kirby? Don't want to double up with Luigi, Ganondorf, or Pokemon.

The hard thing is that the Nintendo hierarchy rarely shifts, and we already have a TON of past matchups among this group, there's no way we don't get at least one rematch among any group of four.

I was about to say replace Zelda with Ganondorf but we already got Kirby vs. Ganondorf and have no reason to believe the result would change.

But then again we also have Bowser/Charizard and Bowser/Kirby and don't really have any reason to think those have changed either. Oh, and Luigi/Kirby exists too.

That being said, I think the most interesting is probably Kirby/Pikachu, Luigi/Zelda. The potential Kirby/Luigi is one of the rare rematches that could go the other way, and I can't think up an interesting match-up for Bowser.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Also, I'm planning to do a near elite poll with Nintendo characters, so feel free to nominate the four you think should be in it!

1. Kirby is obvious
2. Ganondorf has always looked stronger than Zelda, so that's easy unless you think he'd be too big a favorite.
3. For a Pokemon rep, I'd pick Mewtwo due to the easy win over Pikachu in the 2013 bonus match, but Pikachu would be OK. Charizard isn't a bad option either.
4. Luigi for the Mario rep, just because Ganon > Bowser seems really clear from the villain and rivalry contests. I really doubt Luigi and Bowser have much of a strength gap, though.
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I think the Mario hierarchy has shifted a bit, if nothing else. Luigi used to be the weakest of the second tier Mario trio, but he's honestly looked like the strongest one the last few contests.

And of course Pokemon has shaken up the hierarchy a bunch from the early days.

We never got Bowser/Ganondorf, and that's one I've always kinda wanted to see even though Ganondorf would probably be the big favorite.

Also, when did we get Kirby/Ganondorf? I'm pretty sure that match has never happened.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Honestly, it's hard to beat Auron in a picture battle. Dude's got one of the best designs in the series. I can't imagine Vivi could beat him just by having a better picture.

Auron does fine for himself in pictures but really I think Vivi probably benefits more from having a picture than any other character, the FF black mage design is one of the most iconic/recognizable in gaming and he is literally it.
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Yeah, but I think Vivi would have to be pretty close in strength to Auron to begin with for that advantage to matter. It'd be a tiebreaker, not a decisive advantage, in my opinion.
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also Luigi has beaten every near elite Nintendo character at one point or another except for Zelda (who he's never faced) and Yoshi (who beat him way back in 2004) I think

well he hasn't faced Mewtwo or Charizard but I'm still not totally sure those two actually are near elites

(although he needed 4-way wonkiness and a Bacondorf pic to beat Ganon)
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LeonhartFour posted...

Also, when did we get Kirby/Ganondorf? I'm pretty sure that match has never happened.

Oh jeez. For some reason I thought that that had happened in 2010, but they DID have a common opponent in Sonic. Kirby did better, but I'm pretty sure Ganondorf had his pig sprite. So maybe that COULD be an interesting one.

Luigi/Mewtwo (or Pikachu), Kirby/Ganondorf?
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LeonhartFour posted...

We never got Bowser/Ganondorf

Wow, I could have sworn that happened in the Villains Contest. No wonder everyone hated that contest so much.
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Nope, they both faced Sephiroth back to back in the semifinals and finals of that contest.
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Sullivan sucks honestly

Squall > Vivi, I suppose. But I'm not confident in anything. Almost anything could happen here with the exception of Auron > Squall not being very likely.

Nintendo near-elite proposed matchup:

Ganondorf/Zelda, Yoshi/Kirby

or

Ganondorf/Charizard, Kirby/Pikachu

Nintendo low mid-carder proposed matchup:

Marth/Meta-Knight vs. Ness/Falco
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I don't think Yoshi belongs in the discussion as the strongest Nintendo near elite at this point.

I don't really want two Pokemon in the same fourpack here either.
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Yoshi beat Dante at his peak and has had no reason to drop. We haven't been able to gauge Yoshi in years.
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Yoshi got clobbered by Squall and Sora both in 2008, which was easily one of the most embarrassing performances of that contest. Get him out of here.
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Tifa/Squall decides the fourpack.

I'll go with Tifa > Auron. FF9 has grown a lot, but I don't trust Vivi's match against Mariodorf.
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wow looks like even after 8 years HaRR hasn't learned his lesson

perhaps I need to take his sig from him again
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Yes, because we all know Yoshi still must be the same strength as he appeard to be 10 years ago... granted, no reason to gain, of course.

However, Bowser got clobbered by Auron, too, in 2007. If we haven't seen Bowser prove his strength in the 2010 contest, you would have the same feelings toward Bowser.
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Haste_2 posted...

Yes, because we all know Yoshi still must be the same strength as he appeard to be 10 years ago

didn't you literally just say Yoshi's strength has had no reason to change

Haste_2 posted...

Plus Bowser got clobbered by Auron, too, you know.

Luigi it is then

he beat Bowser in 2008 anyway
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Agh, you replied before I noted my own contraction via the edit.
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I mean I've kinda thought Luigi was the strongest of the three since the 2008 contest anyway and I haven't seen anything that's changed my mind in the contests since then but I'm also kind of biased toward him so I could be wrong
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Squall > Auron every day of the week
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I have a strong suspicion that Vivi is timeless enough to have surpassed Auron by now

Squall still wins this fourpack though

Vivi and Tifa were the most impressive of these four last character battle.
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Squall has no chance against Tifa, get real you guys.
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Also part of me feels like Final Fantasy VIII is not as popular on this site as it used to be.
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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Also part of me feels like Final Fantasy VIII is not as popular on this site as it used to be.

Was it ever? Squall is the only thing from it that has ever been worth a damn. The confusing thing is that he is arguably the strongest non-N9er
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Fourpack suggestion:

Frog/Jill, Scorpion/Yuna
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Underleveled posted...

Fourpack suggestion:

Frog/Jill, Scorpion/Yuna

Yuna > Frog

I think?
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Underleveled posted...

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Also part of me feels like Final Fantasy VIII is not as popular on this site as it used to be.

Was it ever? Squall is the only thing from it that has ever been worth a damn. The confusing thing is that he is arguably the strongest non-N9er

The game did only marginally better against Vice City (before benefitting slightly from Undertale's rally) than Chrono Cross did against San Andreas.
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FFVIII was definitely popular. At one point I believed it could probably even take it to FFX, but those days are long gone now.

I don't see Squall losing to Auron for some reason, but FFVII and a boosted Vivi could do it.
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Note that Squall also has Kingdom Hearts to draw strength from.

If FFT could fight all the way to the final update against MGS1 in 2004, it's hard to believe that FFVIII wouldn't have won that match with ease had it made the bracket and been placed there (the bracket rules made it basically ineligible). It was still relatively close to MGS1 in 2009 while FFT fell off completely.
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vivi > squall

this one actually is fun!
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Surprised that people are putting Auron so far below Squall. It was like a 51-49 match back when they went 1 v 1. Squall > Vivi > Auron wouldn't have a lot of wiggle room.
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Many of us are down on Auron and FFX methinks.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Surprised that people are putting Auron so far below Squall. It was like a 51-49 match back when they went 1 v 1. Squall > Vivi > Auron wouldn't have a lot of wiggle room.

Well, he didn't look super great in 2013, although it wasn't totally his fault.

Underleveled posted...

Was it ever?

I mean

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3464-division-5-round-1-ff8-soulcalibur-starcraft-xenogears
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3487-division-5-round-2-ff8-starcraft-zelda-oot-ff9
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3498-division-5-final-mgs-pokemon-zelda-oot-ff8

yeah it is

those are all good showings
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I'd have taken Squall even if this wasn't the case, but I'm expecting FFX in general is weaker than it used to be.

Edit: Not by much, but enough to be a significant factor in a close match.
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I thought Tidus, Yuna, and Rikku all looked fine in 2013.

I guess people look at its 2015 showing as a sign of diminishing strength, but CT was well on its way to giving Melee a similar beatdown before the rally kicked in.
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