Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 190: Slightly Erotic Politics

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red sox 777
09/07/18 12:48:11 AM
#251:


Jakyl25 posted...
Eddv posted...
LMAO Andrew Johnson was an AWFUL politician. Not even just because he was super duper moderate on punishing the South, but just because he was so completely ineffective.


Wasnt Johnson selected for VP mostly as a concession by Lincoln and the Republicans to the South, or is that just what they tell us in school?


Yes, Lincoln chose a Democrat to help win the 1864 election. So we had a Southern Democrat as President of the US after the war.
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ChaosTonyV4
09/07/18 12:50:13 AM
#252:


red sox 777 posted...
Worst politicians.....

Franklin Roosevelt
Hillary Clinton

This might have a recency bias.


...FDR?
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Jakyl25
09/07/18 12:51:09 AM
#253:


FDR had one small trick to boost the economy after the Great Depression.

Libertarians hate it!
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Eddv
09/07/18 12:51:50 AM
#254:


Jakyl25 posted...
Eddv posted...
LMAO Andrew Johnson was an AWFUL politician. Not even just because he was super duper moderate on punishing the South, but just because he was so completely ineffective.


Wasnt Johnson selected for VP mostly as a concession by Lincoln and the Republicans to the South, or is that just what they tell us in school?


That's most of it - what it misses is that he basically was trying to play to the political center. It looked like the Radical faction of the Republican Party was going to run John Fremont as a presidential candidate and it was not at all clear that he would have actually won re-nomination for the Republican Party, so he didn't run on their ticket but instead on the National Union ticket, which included the War Democrats represented by Johnson. the Radicals then formed the Radical Democratic party and ran Fremont. The Copperhead Democrats/Former Whig nominated McClellan who proved to be a surprisingly strong candidate and Lincoln's allies even up convincing Fremont to drop out of the race because there was a real fear McClellan would win.

So yes, it was a concession to Democrats, but it was also kind of a 'fuck you' to Charles Sumner and emblematic of the real fear he would lose the election of 1864.
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xp1337
09/07/18 12:53:20 AM
#255:


FDR won so much they really did get tired of winning.

so they banned anyone from winning that much again

(FDR is pretty complex IMO. You have the New Deal but then you also have Internment. It always leaves me feeling conflicted because for all the things he did that I think are good, there's also things that are really bad as well.)
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Jakyl25
09/07/18 12:57:30 AM
#256:


xp1337 posted...

(FDR is pretty complex IMO. You have the New Deal but then you also have Internment. It always leaves me feeling conflicted because for all the things he did that I think are good, there's also things that are really bad as well.)


I mean, this is basically the historical conundrum of most great Presidents from my experience.
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xp1337
09/07/18 12:58:58 AM
#257:


Jakyl25 posted...
xp1337 posted...

(FDR is pretty complex IMO. You have the New Deal but then you also have Internment. It always leaves me feeling conflicted because for all the things he did that I think are good, there's also things that are really bad as well.)


I mean, this is basically the historical conundrum of most great Presidents from my experience.

No doubt, but I feel it's a bit more extreme with FDR.
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GuessMyUserName
09/07/18 12:59:06 AM
#258:


wow we got a new page fast, midnight no less

oh right corrik came back
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Corrik
09/07/18 1:00:17 AM
#259:


Please At me for me.
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red sox 777
09/07/18 1:01:29 AM
#260:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
red sox 777 posted...
Worst politicians.....

Franklin Roosevelt
Hillary Clinton

This might have a recency bias.


...FDR?


FDR set up the pillars of the modern big government, including the biggest ponzi scheme in history, social security. Social security became popular because the first people in got a very good payout relative to what they paid in, paid for by people who paid in later. Now we are stuck because we are paying 10% of the country's earnings into a pension fund that does not invest the money in anything but people expect to generate returns. We can't get rid of it because the 2nd and 3rd generation have paid into it their whole lives and want to be paid what they're owed. We can't keep it without forcing the next generations to foot the bill. The problem is it works just like a ponzi scheme - there is no actual investment so all you can do is find more new investors to pay the old investors. Until you go broke.

In FDR's case, we may go broke 100 years later.....but that is still a terrible thing, and he should be held responsible in the eyes of history. He also appointed a bunch of justices who overturned longstanding constitutional precedent. Only since 1995 or so have we started to return toward the old law, and we are still a couple justices away from making a major sea change back.
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xp1337
09/07/18 1:06:41 AM
#261:


red sox 777 posted...
In FDR's case, we may go broke 100 years later.....but that is still a terrible thing, and he should be held responsible in the eyes of history.

I think you mean history should hold Hoover and the Republicans responsible. Shouldn't have lost the election then. /s
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Kenri
09/07/18 1:09:12 AM
#262:


Galaxy brain: George Washington is the worst president because everything that happens later is directly a result of him
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GuessMyUserName
09/07/18 1:22:50 AM
#263:


man the world would be such a better place if the founding fathers weren't so deified

y'all should learn from Canadians, John A. MacDonald is largely viewed as a drunken racist so we learn that we are better than our past

I hated him since I was a kid!
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psaltery
09/07/18 1:26:12 AM
#264:


My bad, ancient history only covers stuff before 500 AD.

So @Corrik, please name your favorite historical figures, rulers, or politicians from ancient history (before 500 AD).
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Jakyl25
09/07/18 1:26:49 AM
#265:


Jefferson to me specifically is the one that needs the historical re-examination the most.

Like, people these days are wise to Andrew Jacksons shit, but Jeffersons shenanigans are still under the radar
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Suprak the Stud
09/07/18 1:32:36 AM
#266:


MacDonald was no Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, or Franklin tho. He was maybe an Adams and Americans don't have particularly strong feelings towards Adams either.
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Jakyl25
09/07/18 1:33:52 AM
#267:


He got his own HBO miniseries!
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Suprak the Stud
09/07/18 1:34:56 AM
#268:


Where he was played by Paul Giamatti.

I REST MY CASE
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red sox 777
09/07/18 1:36:37 AM
#269:


xp1337 posted...
red sox 777 posted...
In FDR's case, we may go broke 100 years later.....but that is still a terrible thing, and he should be held responsible in the eyes of history.

I think you mean history should hold Hoover and the Republicans responsible. Shouldn't have lost the election then. /s


I think 1932 was unwinnable given the state of the economy, although the general principle is valid.
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red sox 777
09/07/18 1:44:04 AM
#270:


Also, FDR said he was for poor people. How could we predict that he would impose a new tax where someone making minimum wage pays 15% of their income while multimillionaires pay nothing? I mean, really, we already have one party that's supposed to help the rich, we don't need a second party giving exemptions to rich people.
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Eddv
09/07/18 1:54:21 AM
#271:


Adams is pretty damn important but yeah he doesn't have the Washington heroism or the writings of Jefferson.

Jefferson is really fun to play with as a historian because so many of his words do still resonate with us - his view of the nation itself is so core to our national identity. He just...didn't really live by those words and his notion of agrarian exceptionalism is based upon a backbone of slavery which he wrestled with intellectually but was unable to stare down financially.

He also raped his slaves, despite feeling this way.

The man is fascinating.
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psaltery
09/07/18 2:02:31 AM
#272:


Even senior figures at The New York Times are unaware of the source. A riled Trump has called for them to release the identity on grounds of national security.

However, a journalist will never reveal a source albeit this is on a monumental scale which means the opinion team and the news team are on opposing sides within the newsroom.

The decision was in the purview of James Bennet, editorial page editor, and James Dao, op-ed editor, with publisher AG Sulzberger weighing in, a Times spokeswoman said.

The newspapers executive editor, Dean Baquet, was not involved because the news pages are his responsibility, and the column appeared in the Times opinion section.

That led to a Times reporter, Jodi Kantor, tweeting that Times reporters must now try to unearth the identity of an author that our colleagues in Opinion have sworn to protect with anonymity?

Mr Dao told a Times reporter that the piece was submitted last week through an intermediary, and anonymity was not granted until editors were confident in the writers identity.

We believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers, the newspaper said. Last night a defiant Trump, appearing at an unrelated event at the White House, lashed out at the Times for publishing the op-ed.


https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/06/who-wrote-the-new-york-times-op-ed-on-donald-trump-here-are-the-candidates-7918322/

James Dao knows! Is Trump going to waterboard him?
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GuessMyUserName
09/07/18 2:08:04 AM
#273:


my main knowledge of Adams is from The Conduit

is he actually a 240 year old alien exile secretly plotting to eliminate the rest of his species to usurp their powers and become The One / Highlander
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Eddv
09/07/18 2:15:22 AM
#274:


Yes, actually.
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psaltery
09/07/18 2:18:22 AM
#275:


Jim Dao talking about publicizing the op-ed in the Daily podcast from the Times

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?mt=2#
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Mr Lasastryke
09/07/18 2:44:31 AM
#276:


i'd only heard of woodward because i'm a movie buff and i'm familiar with all the president's men. but still, i HAD heard of him before.

corrik's "normal conservatives don't know who woodward is" claim seems dubious. if i, as a non-american, know who he is, i'm sure plenty of "normal" american conservatives know this as well.
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metroid composite
09/07/18 8:36:46 AM
#277:


I mean, I'm not good with names, I heard of Woodward earlier in the week, but I'm not sure I'd recognize him before then. "Woodward and Bernstein" sounds familiar, but probably when I hear "bernstein" I'm thinking of Leonard Bernstein, the musician. Actually, wait, I'm not sure that's the musician I was thinking of--I might have been thinking of Hammerstein. >_>

psaltery posted...
My bad, ancient history only covers stuff before 500 AD.

So @Corrik, please name your favorite historical figures, rulers, or politicians from ancient history (before 500 AD).


Ehhh, that still feels too recent for me. Here's some favourite figures before 500 BC.

Cyrus the Great
Imhotep
Urukagina
Hammurabi
Dan, Duke Wen of Zhou

(If you go more recent than that, you have to decide whether or not to include a ton of religious and moral figures like Buddha, Jesus, and and Confucious who are all bunched up between 500 BC and 30 AD. Not that there aren't religious figures prior to 500 BC, but I find it easier to justify snubbing Zoraster, King David, and Parshvanatha. Also, yes, I'm aware that I snubbed the Assyrian Empire, but man, those people were jerks).
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metroid composite
09/07/18 8:57:23 AM
#278:


And now for more recent news...net neutrality stuff!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-04/youtube-and-netflix-throttled-by-carriers-research-finds

Obviously we heard about them throttling the data access of California firefighters a while back (trying to get them to pay more) which is a big part of why California all the sudden turned around and passed net neutrality all of the sudden when it couldn't get out of committee before. But this is the first I've heard of general throttling for everyday consumers. I'm not surprised by Netflix, ISPs already tried to throttle netflix back when net neutrality was law (and got sued). I did not expect Youtube as well though.
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Reg
09/07/18 9:05:27 AM
#279:


Also in big yikes news

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/09/06/shooting-reported-cedars-near-dallas-police-headquarters

tl;dr cop enters apartment after her shift, shoots (and kills) resident, claims she thought the apartment was hers

Fucking disgusting. Especially since DPD has been one of the best departments in the country when it comes to officer/civilian relations over the past few years.
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Peace___Frog
09/07/18 9:42:09 AM
#280:


metroid composite posted...
And now for more recent news...net neutrality stuff!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-04/youtube-and-netflix-throttled-by-carriers-research-finds

Obviously we heard about them throttling the data access of California firefighters a while back (trying to get them to pay more) which is a big part of why California all the sudden turned around and passed net neutrality all of the sudden when it couldn't get out of committee before. But this is the first I've heard of general throttling for everyday consumers. I'm not surprised by Netflix, ISPs already tried to throttle netflix back when net neutrality was law (and got sued). I did not expect Youtube as well though.

Interesting. Think I'll download this app and run it a few times a day, I've been having some suspicions about sprint.
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Jakyl25
09/07/18 9:42:21 AM
#281:


Eddv posted...

He also raped his slaves, despite feeling this way.


I dont even wait. And if youre their owner, they let you do it!
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Obellisk
09/07/18 9:53:40 AM
#282:


Reg posted...
Also in big yikes news

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/09/06/shooting-reported-cedars-near-dallas-police-headquarters

tl;dr cop enters apartment after her shift, shoots (and kills) resident, claims she thought the apartment was hers

Fucking disgusting. Especially since DPD has been one of the best departments in the country when it comes to officer/civilian relations over the past few years.


Heard about this, I have never, ever, in my life, no matter how tired or intoxicated tried to walk into a different apartment, house or car. I just dont understand how one does this. Forget killing someone inside said wrong location.
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HaRRicH
09/07/18 10:40:26 AM
#283:


I walked toward the wrong car a time or two, but when I realized someone else I didn't know was in the car my first reaction wasn't to attack -- it was to apologize.
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Maniac64
09/07/18 10:45:30 AM
#284:


metroid composite posted...
And now for more recent news...net neutrality stuff!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-04/youtube-and-netflix-throttled-by-carriers-research-finds

Obviously we heard about them throttling the data access of California firefighters a while back (trying to get them to pay more) which is a big part of why California all the sudden turned around and passed net neutrality all of the sudden when it couldn't get out of committee before. But this is the first I've heard of general throttling for everyday consumers. I'm not surprised by Netflix, ISPs already tried to throttle netflix back when net neutrality was law (and got sued). I did not expect Youtube as well though.

I expect all major streaming services will get hit with this unless they pay additional fees.
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Maniac64
09/07/18 10:48:36 AM
#285:


Obellisk posted...
Reg posted...
Also in big yikes news

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/09/06/shooting-reported-cedars-near-dallas-police-headquarters

tl;dr cop enters apartment after her shift, shoots (and kills) resident, claims she thought the apartment was hers

Fucking disgusting. Especially since DPD has been one of the best departments in the country when it comes to officer/civilian relations over the past few years.


Heard about this, I have never, ever, in my life, no matter how tired or intoxicated tried to walk into a different apartment, house or car. I just dont understand how one does this. Forget killing someone inside said wrong location.

While I have never done it I do know someone who did. Drunk, went in the wrong apartment, killed the owner thinking they were a robber. Went to jail.

Now he goes around to high schools and youth groups talking about it and the dangers of drinking/how one dumb decision can change or ruin your life.
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Mega Mana
09/07/18 10:50:16 AM
#286:


metroid composite posted...
Cyrus the Great


Wasnt he 600 AD though?

*plays Frog's Theme*
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Obellisk
09/07/18 10:55:56 AM
#287:


HaRRicH posted...
I walked toward the wrong car a time or two, but when I realized someone else I didn't know was in the car my first reaction wasn't to attack -- it was to apologize.


you didn't take out your gun and try to kill them? Thats not american.
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Obellisk
09/07/18 10:56:26 AM
#288:


Mega Mana posted...
metroid composite posted...
Cyrus the Great


Wasnt he 600 AD though?

*plays Frog's Theme*


immediately started playing in my head.
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Corrik
09/07/18 1:33:37 PM
#289:


Corrik posted...
I am willing to expand my views. But expand them. Don't shun me.

Jesus I was drunk
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Corrik
09/07/18 1:38:02 PM
#290:


psaltery posted...
My bad, ancient history only covers stuff before 500 AD.

So @Corrik, please name your favorite historical figures, rulers, or politicians from ancient history (before 500 AD).

Alexander the Great
Aristotle
Plato
Socrates
Julius Caesar
Marcus Aurelius
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Suprak the Stud
09/07/18 1:54:30 PM
#291:


Corrik posted...
Corrik posted...
I am willing to expand my views. But expand them. Don't shun me.

Jesus I was drunk


Somehow it took me after your third incoherent post to realize that. I did laugh out loud that you did an AMA and I asked you to name some politicians you liked and you were acting like it was the most complex question anyone had ever asked you.
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Corrik
09/07/18 1:58:30 PM
#292:


Suprak the Stud posted...
Corrik posted...
Corrik posted...
I am willing to expand my views. But expand them. Don't shun me.

Jesus I was drunk


Somehow it took me after your third incoherent post to realize that. I did laugh out loud that you did an AMA and I asked you to name some politicians you liked and you were acting like it was the most complex question anyone had ever asked you.

Lol
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Corrik
09/07/18 2:31:40 PM
#293:


I like Romney, Suprak.
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TheRock1525
09/07/18 2:38:53 PM
#294:


https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1038111526488498176?s=19

Former Pres. Obama: "I know there are Republicans who believe government should only perform a few minimal functions, but that one of those functions should be making sure nearly 3,000 Americans don't die in a hurricane."


Oh shit.
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Reg
09/07/18 2:41:03 PM
#295:


Obama had a lot to say.
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HaRRicH
09/07/18 5:41:56 PM
#296:


9/4/2018
THE HILL - Trump said condemning white supremacists was biggest f---ing mistake Ive made: Woodward book

Trump faced widespread criticism after he initially said that both sides were to blame for the violence that broke out at the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., last August.

He later condemned white supremacists and neo-Nazis at the urging of his advisers, according to Woodward.

That was the biggest f---ing mistake Ive made, Trump reportedly told aides almost immediately after the condemnation.

Trump also called it the worst speech Ive ever given, according to Woodward's account.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/404940-trump-said-condemning-white-supremacists-was-biggest-f-ing-mistake


I know we covered a lot of Woodward quotes the past few days, but I want to make sure this one gets seen.

It's weird. On one hand, what better proof is there of Donald's racism than to describe the time he tried to clarify Nazis were bad (which was already clarified poorly) was his worst speech and biggest fucking mistake? On the other hand, letting Bannon go later that week is weirder timing now. The pressure to let Bannon go was definitely strong, it's just worth noting to see how strong that pressure must have been to have fired him in this moment where Donald so strongly regretted attempting to be less than racist.
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Paratroopa1
09/07/18 5:46:22 PM
#297:


HaRRicH posted...
9/4/2018
THE HILL - Trump said condemning white supremacists was biggest f---ing mistake Ive made: Woodward book

Trump faced widespread criticism after he initially said that both sides were to blame for the violence that broke out at the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., last August.

He later condemned white supremacists and neo-Nazis at the urging of his advisers, according to Woodward.

That was the biggest f---ing mistake Ive made, Trump reportedly told aides almost immediately after the condemnation.

Trump also called it the worst speech Ive ever given, according to Woodward's account.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/404940-trump-said-condemning-white-supremacists-was-biggest-f-ing-mistake


I know we covered a lot of Woodward quotes the past few days, but I want to make sure this one gets seen.

It's weird. On one hand, what better proof is there of Donald's racism than to describe the time he tried to clarify Nazis were bad (which was already clarified poorly) was his worst speech and biggest fucking mistake? On the other hand, letting Bannon go later that week is weirder timing now. The pressure to let Bannon go was definitely strong, it's just worth noting to see how strong that pressure must have been to have fired him in this moment where Donald so strongly regretted attempting to be less than racist.

I initially misread this excerpt and thought he was saying his 'both sides' speech was a big mistake and his worst speech

and I was like "wow, that's shockingly insightful and self-aware, but I guess a broken clock is right twice a day"

and then I realized he was actually talking about the speech afterwards where he walked it back and condemned neo-nazis

jesus christ even when I'm trying to give this guy the most benefit of the doubt possible
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Reg
09/07/18 5:49:23 PM
#298:


HaRRicH posted...
9/4/2018
THE HILL - Trump said condemning white supremacists was biggest f---ing mistake Ive made: Woodward book

Trump faced widespread criticism after he initially said that both sides were to blame for the violence that broke out at the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., last August.

He later condemned white supremacists and neo-Nazis at the urging of his advisers, according to Woodward.

That was the biggest f---ing mistake Ive made, Trump reportedly told aides almost immediately after the condemnation.

Trump also called it the worst speech Ive ever given, according to Woodward's account.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/404940-trump-said-condemning-white-supremacists-was-biggest-f-ing-mistake


I know we covered a lot of Woodward quotes the past few days, but I want to make sure this one gets seen.

It's weird. On one hand, what better proof is there of Donald's racism than to describe the time he tried to clarify Nazis were bad (which was already clarified poorly) was his worst speech and biggest fucking mistake? On the other hand, letting Bannon go later that week is weirder timing now. The pressure to let Bannon go was definitely strong, it's just worth noting to see how strong that pressure must have been to have fired him in this moment where Donald so strongly regretted attempting to be less than racist.

This is your reminder that the usual garbage literally tries to claim Trump isn't a racist scumbag.
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LordoftheMorons
09/07/18 5:54:21 PM
#299:


HaRRicH posted...
I know we covered a lot of Woodward quotes the past few days, but I want to make sure this one gets seen.

It's weird. On one hand, what better proof is there of Donald's racism than to describe the time he tried to clarify Nazis were bad (which was already clarified poorly) was his worst speech and biggest fucking mistake? On the other hand, letting Bannon go later that week is weirder timing now. The pressure to let Bannon go was definitely strong, it's just worth noting to see how strong that pressure must have been to have fired him in this moment where Donald so strongly regretted attempting to be less than racist.

I'm usually not one to be at all charitable to Trump, but I think it's more likely that the primary reason he regrets it is that it was one of the very few times he actually apologized for something (which he thinks makes him look weak).
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ChaosTonyV4
09/07/18 5:55:52 PM
#300:


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/405558-plaid-shirt-guy-reacting-to-trump-at-rally-becomes-viral

A man positioned behind President Trump during his rally in Montana on Thursday has become a viral sensation for his facial expressions while the president delivered remarks.

This is hilarious.

Also a little surreal to see him get forced to swap out with a true believer in real time.
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Phantom Dust.
"I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado
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