Poll of the Day > Everyones entitled to a lawyer, but morally how can u represent someone wicked?

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DrProfessor
07/23/18 4:08:05 PM
#1:


And by wicked I mean, straight evil. Like, when its obvious they did it and the trial is just a formality at that point. How can you fight to get this person off the hook?

What if you win by some miracle? How do you live with yourself?
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Kyuubi4269
07/23/18 4:14:57 PM
#2:


DrProfessor posted...
What if you win by some miracle? How do you live with yourself?

You fight to get the law changed based on your inside knowledge.
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Scloud posted...
Its like he wants two things at the same time.
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Rasmoh
07/23/18 4:15:39 PM
#3:


In cases like that, attorneys are typically only there to ensure that the rights of the accused are not violated. Think of it as insurance against Appeals. Cases like the one you mentioned aren't ever "won" unless there's some major rights violation involved.
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Smarkil
07/23/18 4:16:56 PM
#4:


Because you're not arguing to prove a mans innocence. You're arguing to prove that the state/system has not done their job in proving his guilt.

Someone needs to make sure the system isn't fucking up. Defense attorneys are a check against that system.
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MICHALECOLE
07/23/18 4:20:58 PM
#5:


$$$$
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Questionmarktarius
07/23/18 4:22:27 PM
#6:


Lawyer
Moral

pick one.
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Kyuubi4269
07/23/18 4:25:01 PM
#7:


Questionmarktarius posted...
Lawyer
Successful
Moral

pick two.

fixed
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Scloud posted...
Its like he wants two things at the same time.
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Questionmarktarius
07/23/18 4:29:18 PM
#8:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
Questionmarktarius posted...
Lawyer
Successful
Moral

pick two.

fixed

even better
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GreenKnight127
07/23/18 4:30:50 PM
#9:


Lawyers get a bad reputation, simply because you usually only see lawyers do what they do....when SOMEONE has broken the law.

If people would stop breaking the law, lawyers would no longer serve a purpose.

They are a necessary profession.

It also doesn't help that the laws are constantly changing, and are complicated as all hell....so some people need to hire a lawyer to sort through the fine print. And they won't do it for free.....because why would anyone want to work for nothing?

For every ONE lawyer that defends a monster who is 100% guilty.................there are a THOUSAND lawyers out there defending innocent people who refuse to be victimized by the convoluted legal system.

*shrugs*

I think some people just watch too many Hollywood movies and instantly assume ALL lawyers are corrupt.

Personally, I've actually noticed that cops and politicians are waaaaay worse than lawyers. There's something very suspicious about cops getting angry when someone hires a lawyer. Because they hate seeing citizens exercise their rights. They hate knowing a lawyer understands the law and won't lie to the person that hired them. Cops can and often DO lie to people, in the attempts to have them incriminate themselves. It's very sick. Lawyers don't tolerate that shit.
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InfestedAdam
07/23/18 4:42:39 PM
#11:


GreenKnight127 posted...
For every ONE lawyer that defends a monster who is 100% guilty.................there are a THOUSAND lawyers out there defending innocent people who refuse to be victimized by the convoluted legal system.

Maybe not those exact numbers butt hat's how I tend to see it and in some cases the lawyer isn't even trying to prove his/her client is innocent but instead try and lessen the punishment.
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adjl
07/23/18 5:50:13 PM
#12:


Smarkil posted...
Because you're not arguing to prove a mans innocence. You're arguing to prove that the state/system has not done their job in proving his guilt.

Someone needs to make sure the system isn't fucking up. Defense attorneys are a check against that system.


Pretty much. Lawyers are there to make the prosecution do their homework. If it's easy to prove the defendant's guilt, then they aren't likely to make much of a difference, but are still necessary to make sure the appropriate channels are followed in convicting them. In terms of sentencing, they also act to prevent everyone from getting carried away by their emotions and demanding a harsher sentence than is actually warranted.
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DrProfessor
07/23/18 6:30:12 PM
#13:


adjl posted...
Smarkil posted...
Because you're not arguing to prove a mans innocence. You're arguing to prove that the state/system has not done their job in proving his guilt.

Someone needs to make sure the system isn't fucking up. Defense attorneys are a check against that system.


Pretty much. Lawyers are there to make the prosecution do their homework. If it's easy to prove the defendant's guilt, then they aren't likely to make much of a difference, but are still necessary to make sure the appropriate channels are followed in convicting them. In terms of sentencing, they also act to prevent everyone from getting carried away by their emotions and demanding a harsher sentence than is actually warranted.
I spose that makes sense, when you look at it that way.
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DeathMagnetic80
07/23/18 9:08:25 PM
#14:


When I took criminal law, my professor, who was a sitting judge would talk about his time as a public defender and when he had a very obviously guilty client. He knew he was gonna lose and was like "My closing argument was basically me doing everything but wrapping myself in an American flag as I gave a speech about how everyone has the right to a fair trial and representation, no matter what"

So as others said, it's not so much about getting them off as it is making sure the system works as intended.
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Lokarin
07/23/18 9:11:22 PM
#15:


DrProfessor posted...
And by wicked I mean, straight evil. Like, when its obvious they did it and the trial is just a formality at that point. How can you fight to get this person off the hook?

What if you win by some miracle? How do you live with yourself?


That's not actually how defense attorneys work. Defense attorneys have to put up a strong defense ESPECIALLY for the most evil so that the verdict is Ironclad.
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Zeus
07/23/18 9:21:42 PM
#16:


DrProfessor posted...
And by wicked I mean, straight evil. Like, when its obvious they did it and the trial is just a formality at that point. How can you fight to get this person off the hook?


If it's a done deal, you try to plead out. Otherwise, lawyers aren't supposed to be privy to certain details could potentially implicate them in a crime. Like if you were a lawyer and you witnessed your client ask to have a hit put on somebody, you're *supposed* to report that because you're an officer of the court. Attorney-Client privilege only covers so much.

And, of course, some lawyers will refuse to represent clients who they believe are guilty of certain crimes.

Kyuubi4269 posted...
Questionmarktarius posted...
Lawyer
Successful
Moral

pick two.

fixed


When you choose a law career
The moment you embark
There is that joke you're bound to hear
"A lawyer is a shark"
Ignore that, it's simplistic and it's dumb
Only some of you will turn out sharks, just some,
The rest... are chum!

GreenKnight127 posted...
Lawyers get a bad reputation, simply because you usually only see lawyers do what they do....when SOMEONE has broken the law.

If people would stop breaking the law, lawyers would no longer serve a purpose.

They are a necessary profession.

It also doesn't help that the laws are constantly changing, and are complicated as all hell....so some people need to hire a lawyer to sort through the fine print. And they won't do it for free.....because why would anyone want to work for nothing?

For every ONE lawyer that defends a monster who is 100% guilty.................there are a THOUSAND lawyers out there defending innocent people who refuse to be victimized by the convoluted legal system.


This, tbh. The law has become so onerous, complex, and opaque that you need a professional.
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Questionmarktarius
07/23/18 9:23:43 PM
#17:


Zeus posted...
When you choose a law career
The moment you embark
There is that joke you're bound to hear
"A lawyer is a shark"
Ignore that, it's simplistic and it's dumb
Only some of you will turn out sharks, just some,
The rest... are chum!

Did Mark Evanier write that?
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rogerskg1979
07/23/18 9:31:38 PM
#18:


Zangulus posted...
If people would stop breaking the law, lawyers would no longer serve a purpose.


Well thats entirely wrong... not all lawyers are criminal lawyers...


Yeah, lawyers all have specialties just like any other professional career. Saying all lawyers are criminal lawyers is like saying all doctors are podiatrists.

I am an accountant, and it always annoys me when people assume I can do their taxes. I have never worked in tax in my entire life. The only thing I know about tax is what I learned in tax class in college, and I have forgotten most of it.
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Zeus
07/23/18 9:37:22 PM
#19:


Questionmarktarius posted...
Zeus posted...
When you choose a law career
The moment you embark
There is that joke you're bound to hear
"A lawyer is a shark"
Ignore that, it's simplistic and it's dumb
Only some of you will turn out sharks, just some,
The rest... are chum!

Did Mark Evanier write that?


Not sure who that is, but I don't believe he worked on Legally Blonde: The Musical.
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Life Sympathy
07/23/18 9:47:49 PM
#20:


It's why the prosecutor position exists. If one's guilt over a heinous action is provable then the prosecutor will handle what needs to be done with regard to pathos.

Defense attorney is a harsh job to do. It's not for everyone.
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keyblader1985
07/23/18 9:51:56 PM
#21:


Zeus posted...
Questionmarktarius posted...
Zeus posted...
When you choose a law career
The moment you embark
There is that joke you're bound to hear
"A lawyer is a shark"
Ignore that, it's simplistic and it's dumb
Only some of you will turn out sharks, just some,
The rest... are chum!

Did Mark Evanier write that?

Not sure who that is, but I don't believe he worked on Legally Blonde: The Musical.

I don't know why I find this so hilarious.
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Rasmoh
07/23/18 11:01:02 PM
#22:


Life Sympathy posted...
Defense attorney is a harsh job to do. It's not for everyone.


I work for the DOJ in my state and I sort of sympathize with the attorneys. They are severely overworked, paid less than most lawyers, are viewed as bad guys in many ways and their own clients treat them like shit. Of course, most of their clients are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt but still pissed that they're gonna have to do prison time, but still.

The worst part about the legal system though is the amount of time this shit can take. There's a murder case going on in one of the courts in my state that has been going through the process for over 3 years despite the fact that the guy is easily identified on camera committing the murder. It's insane.
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Zeus
07/24/18 4:42:30 PM
#23:


Rasmoh posted...
The worst part about the legal system though is the amount of time this shit can take. There's a murder case going on in one of the courts in my state that has been going through the process for over 3 years despite the fact that the guy is easily identified on camera committing the murder. It's insane.


Long lost twin brother.
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DeathMagnetic80
07/25/18 8:19:18 PM
#24:


rogerskg1979 posted...
Zangulus posted...
If people would stop breaking the law, lawyers would no longer serve a purpose.


Well thats entirely wrong... not all lawyers are criminal lawyers...


Yeah, lawyers all have specialties just like any other professional career. Saying all lawyers are criminal lawyers is like saying all doctors are podiatrists.

I am an accountant, and it always annoys me when people assume I can do their taxes. I have never worked in tax in my entire life. The only thing I know about tax is what I learned in tax class in college, and I have forgotten most of it.


The funny thing about this is I'm a tax preparer and everything thinks I'm a freaking accountant
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Zeus
07/25/18 11:34:38 PM
#25:


DeathMagnetic80 posted...
rogerskg1979 posted...
Zangulus posted...
If people would stop breaking the law, lawyers would no longer serve a purpose.


Well thats entirely wrong... not all lawyers are criminal lawyers...


Yeah, lawyers all have specialties just like any other professional career. Saying all lawyers are criminal lawyers is like saying all doctors are podiatrists.

I am an accountant, and it always annoys me when people assume I can do their taxes. I have never worked in tax in my entire life. The only thing I know about tax is what I learned in tax class in college, and I have forgotten most of it.


The funny thing about this is I'm a tax preparer and everything thinks I'm a freaking accountant


Well, there's no accounting for public perception.
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