Poll of the Day > Do you think a pheromone exists that can cause someone to unwillingly....well...

(+) Yeah! (+)

....you know.

Like....want it?

I'm sure some of you have been around animals. Maybe you've worked on a farm. Or maybe you had a cat and never got her fixed. And you see what happens when they are in heat. Animals lose all rationality (what little they had to begin with) and all self-control.

All because of pheromones. Hormones. Instinct. The drive to breed.

Humans do this as well, just not quite to suuuuuch an extreme....(yet).

I was thinking about rape the other day, and I was wondering if maybe there are some people in this world who have some kind of endocrine disorder...or something with their brain, hormonal fluctuations, nervous system, <insert scientific term here> that causes them to emit a concentrated sex pheromone that makes them significantly more appealing to the opposite sex.

And I was wondering if, with the manipulation of technology and genetics, if scientists could increase this effect 1000x and make it into a phermone that literally makes people go into heat around you. Like cats. Or worse.

And, if by doing that.....if you could be arrested for "rape".

(hi)
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oh my god shut up
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scopolamine
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If you and i combine, tc, we can become a furry ;)
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Greenfox111 posted...

If you and i combine, tc, we can become a furry ;)

Are you furreal?
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Nope. Unless it's whatever I'm missing.

Easy there Cosby
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I'm gonna spread my spanish fly all up in hurr

Im going to search for this article I read. They did research and found out pheromones exist. And it like this chemical. It was very interesting read. They did studies on it, too. And it even makes shows how sometimes, gay people were more attracted to other gay people. It was really cool. It was years ago that I read it. Hopefully, I can find it...
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GreenKnight127 posted...

I was thinking about rape the other day,

Great way to preface a discussion.

GreenKnight127 posted...

And, if by doing that.....if you could be arrested for "rape".

idk. Maybe we should get a female perspective. Oh! We could ask RC! =p

But seriously, if something like that existed, it would be very quickly outlawed and likely classified as a date rape drug.
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Zeus posted...

But seriously, if something like that existed, it would be very quickly outlawed and likely classified as a date rape drug.

Pretty much. If you can't definitively say "they would sleep with me even if I didn't rely on this substance," you can't claim that they're consenting to sex with you after using said substance.
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Pheromones have been researched. Let's start by saying that research is inconclusive on their effects on humans since unlike regular animals, we don't have the same receptors that they do. But some evidence shows that pheromones do impact humans (such as the response we have to "baby smell" making us want to take care of them)

So let's go in under the assumption that they work.

First, they already exist commercially and you can buy the actual molecules and mix your own or buy pre-made perfumes/colognes.

Pheromones are not magic. They are not a love potion that will magically make people instantly want sex with you. Excessive use of them can actually have the opposite effect. Pheromones trigger a response in the body, and there are limitations of the body. (e.g. a man subjected to female pheromones can still only create so much testosterone to increase arousal)

Not all pheromones are love/sex related. Some also have calming effects, help your focus/determination, or just improve your mood so you feel happier.

Also realize that you can't wear pheromones without having the effect on yourself as well, and potentially stronger since you will constantly be smelling it coming right off your body.

In a nutshell - assuming that they even effect humans in the same way, pheromones aren't going to be something that you throw on and suddenly people are throwing themselves at you, and magnifying the effect (adding more molecules) isn't going to change things (if anything it would probably make them feel sick). If you put it on, its going to hit you first and heaviest.

It is not going to be some Rick potion #9 situation where you wear it out and everyone wants to have sex with you
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Jen0125 posted...

oh my god

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GreenKnight127 posted...

I was thinking about rape the other day,

Good Lord
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GreenKnight127 posted...

I was thinking about rape the other day, and I was wondering if maybe there are some people in this world who have some kind of endocrine disorder...or something with their brain, hormonal fluctuations, nervous system, <insert scientific term here> that causes them to emit a concentrated sex pheromone that makes them significantly more appealing to the opposite sex.

And I have to say, that is some amazing mental gymnastics to blame the rape victim. "Oh, it wasn't my fault - she just had too much pheromones, her body told me it was ok!"
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Hahaha, hey now! Don't bash me for thinking about rape.

I was thinking about the CONCEPT of rape, as well as the dynamics of consent that go around that.......and how the whole thing could become a mess if a powerful sex pheromone was introduced.

We're talking about something that borders on science-fiction, btw.

But it also brings into question free will......because the idea of free will has always interested me, because it's kind of a big deal....and also might not even exist.

How can humans truly have free will when so much of our behavior is predetermined by hormones, instincts, natural impulses, genetics, neurological disorders, etc?

Why is it that when most human males reach the age of 14...they start wanting to put their reproductive bits into any hole they can find? Nature made us that way. And I think that's actually kinda messed up.

If there's a God out there.....wouldn't it have been nicer to turn 14 and suddenly have this powerful urge to cure cancer or something?

But nope.

We just want to breed.

I think that example alone puts a pretty big damper on our free will.

(don't mind me, i love cocaine).
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GreenKnight127 posted...

And, if by doing that.....if you could be arrested for "rape".

Sounds like drug rape.
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GreenKnight127 posted...

Hahaha, hey now! Don't bash me for thinking about rape.

I was thinking about the CONCEPT of rape, as well as the dynamics of consent that go around that.......and how the whole thing could become a mess if a powerful sex pheromone was introduced.

We're talking about something that borders on science-fiction, btw.

But it also brings into question free will......because the idea of free will has always interested me, because it's kind of a big deal....and also might not even exist.

How can humans truly have free will when so much of our behavior is predetermined by hormones, instincts, natural impulses, genetics, neurological disorders, etc?

Why is it that when most human males reach the age of 14...they start wanting to put their reproductive bits into any hole they can find? Nature made us that way. And I think that's actually kinda messed up.

If there's a God out there.....wouldn't it have been nicer to turn 14 and suddenly have this powerful urge to cure cancer or something?

But nope.

We just want to breed.

I think that example alone puts a pretty big damper on our free will.

(don't mind me, i love cocaine).

Our free will manifests itself as self control. There are many things I want to do: If someone cuts me off in traffic, I *want* to blast right past them and flip them off, but I don't. If I have already had all my calories for the day, I might still want that piece of cake, but I don't have it.

Yes, when you hit puberty you have urges, and you may not be in complete control of your body and its functions, but you do have a choice in how you react to it.
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oh my god shut up
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aurick79 posted...

Our free will manifests itself as self control.

Yes, when you hit puberty you have urges, and you may not be in complete control of your body and its functions, but you do have a choice in how you react to it.

You see. I agree with you, to an extent.

I think that self-control is easier for some...but not for others. This can be due to various things: genetics, neurological disorders, hormonal imbalances, etc.

I have known guys who started getting soooooo horny in their adolescence, that they were borderline disgusting/rapey/twitchy/fidgety. It impacted every aspect of their being. They couldn't even focus in class because they were so distracted by the females in the room. They simply couldn't operate like a rational human being because so many nasty chemicals were pumping through their bodies, telling them it was breed o'clock. I actually felt kinda sorry for them. They were always on the prowl for a mate. Unable to think of anything else.

Meanwhile, some people totally lack those types of hormones, and have a nice smooth transition through puberty. Some have imbalances so extreme that they have virtually NO sex drive at all, and just live a quiet life reading books and staying the hell away from people.

And those hormonal fluctuations play an ENORMOUS factor on the outcomes of their lives/personality/happiness.

All because of some biological things going on inside your body that you have NO control over.
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GreenKnight127 posted...

aurick79 posted...

Our free will manifests itself as self control.

Yes, when you hit puberty you have urges, and you may not be in complete control of your body and its functions, but you do have a choice in how you react to it.

You see. I agree with you, to an extent.

I think that self-control is easier for some...but not for others. This can be due to various things: genetics, neurological disorders, hormonal imbalances, etc.

I have known guys who started getting soooooo horny in their adolescence, that they were borderline disgusting/rapey/twitchy/fidgety. It impacted every aspect of their being. They couldn't even focus in class because they were so distracted by the females in the room. They simply couldn't operate like a rational human being because so many nasty chemicals were pumping through their bodies, telling them it was breed o'clock. I actually felt kinda sorry for them. They were always on the prowl for a mate. Unable to think of anything else.

Meanwhile, some people totally lack those types of hormones, and have a nice smooth transition through puberty. Some have imbalances so extreme that they have virtually NO sex drive at all, and just live a quiet life reading books and staying the hell away from people.

And those hormonal fluctuations play an ENORMOUS factor on the outcomes of their lives/personality/happiness.

All because of some biological things going on inside your body that you have NO control over.

Your free will, self control, gives you the option to seek help when you feel you are starting to lose control of your body.

And I'm not saying it's easy - but you either have free will or you don't, you can't "sorta" have free will.
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oh man if i could i would of told off the guy who cut right in front of me at the taco bell. but i lack assertiveness.

it was a small order he got and mine would of arrived second anyway.
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kingdrake2 posted...

oh man if i could i would of told off the guy who cut right in front of me at the taco bell. but i lack assertiveness.

it was a small order he got and mine would of arrived second anyway.

Assertiveness is both an innate talent and a skill, you can work on it and improve it if you wanted too.

Of course, you have to be willing to accept the consequences of such assertiveness.
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There are cologne that claim to have pheromones to help attract women. A friend recently convinced me to try one, and I've noticed an increase in attention from women. I suspect it's a placebo though, and it could be from increased confidence. Me being fairly attractive and confident to begin with certainly helps.

These products WILL NOT mind control women into having sex with you. It just might increase attraction on a subconscious level. if you're unattractive or just look gross, these will do nothing.
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Well as someone who has gone through being out of control and acting like a different person due to a neurological disorder, I really understand where you're going with part of this conversation. It does suck very much that hormones, illness, brain damage, all sorts of things we don't control determine who we are more than we like to admit. Our "mind" is not separate from our body. It IS our body but also something we can't quite fathom.

I'm absolutely sure that there are many people who were naturally predetermined to have less self control, more anger, and a more rampaging desire for sex. Nature fucks up all the time. But they do still have choice, and still have to be treated the same by the law for the good of society.

I think a good example of nature determining the path of your life is something that you already mentioned. The urge to breed. I was born with absolutely no urge to reproduce. I still wanted sex since I was like five years old, I was hypersexual from the beginning. Also probably determined by hormones and brain structure and who knows what. But babies? Absolutely no interest in them. Ever. They do nothing for me. Their smell doesn't get me googly, the sounds they make can make me laugh but there is no squee. Through my life I intellectually found more and more reasons why I don't want children, but who knows what I might have chosen if I had had that simple, basic urge? Who knows.

Of course even more weirdly I have the same reaction people have to babies toward kittens. Like they're not just cute to me. I want to huff their scent and raise them and love them. It's a mommy urge for an entirely different species. Now personally I suspect this has to do with toxoplasmosis or some other infectious situation with the cats. Possibly something that changed me in the womb. Or maybe I'm just that weird. It shall remain a mystery.

Mind and body, have fun ever figuring it out.
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aurick79 posted...

GreenKnight127 posted...

Hahaha, hey now! Don't bash me for thinking about rape.

I was thinking about the CONCEPT of rape, as well as the dynamics of consent that go around that.......and how the whole thing could become a mess if a powerful sex pheromone was introduced.

We're talking about something that borders on science-fiction, btw.

But it also brings into question free will......because the idea of free will has always interested me, because it's kind of a big deal....and also might not even exist.

How can humans truly have free will when so much of our behavior is predetermined by hormones, instincts, natural impulses, genetics, neurological disorders, etc?

Why is it that when most human males reach the age of 14...they start wanting to put their reproductive bits into any hole they can find? Nature made us that way. And I think that's actually kinda messed up.

If there's a God out there.....wouldn't it have been nicer to turn 14 and suddenly have this powerful urge to cure cancer or something?

But nope.

We just want to breed.

I think that example alone puts a pretty big damper on our free will.

(don't mind me, i love cocaine).

Our free will manifests itself as self control. There are many things I want to do: If someone cuts me off in traffic, I *want* to blast right past them and flip them off, but I don't. If I have already had all my calories for the day, I might still want that piece of cake, but I don't have it.

Yes, when you hit puberty you have urges, and you may not be in complete control of your body and its functions, but you do have a choice in how you react to it.

Y'know, all of our body can be manipulated with chemical reactions, including our own brain. So theoretically speaking, you could increase and decrease people's self control with drugs. I remember reading on a magazine once quite some years ago that there was a research being done on exactly what TC has suggested, a combination of chemicals that could make anyone wanting to do it. But it was shut down later on for a bunch of reasons, like people using it on others (the original idea was of self-use) and that the principle behind it could be applied to induce several other behaviours on people, including some dangerous ones. Not sure how legit this is tho.

At the end of the day, we are just brains attached to spinal cords.....all the rest is just a complex life support system for those two things.

And that brain and spinal cord are subject to so many chemicals and electrical impulses that it is astounding we exist at all.

Everything impacts the choices we make, and while it might seem like we have free will....we are just acting in response to things that have been thrust upon us, oftentimes against our will.

I don't know about you guys, but I never had any say in who my parents would be, what country I would be born in, how tall I would be, what kind of hormonal levels I would have, what genetic predispositions I would have.....and yet all of those things have had a PROFOUND effect on shaping me into the person I am today. Had a chemical or two been tweaks a little differently, I could have turned out to be a serial killer.

Some people don't like to think about this, because they insist on everyone being in control of their lives, and how everyone has the choice to not do certain things. But that's also easy for them to say, when their actions have, so far, allowed them to just be normal run-o-the-mill people.
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