Poll of the Day > WHO release preview of updated health guidelines.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Included in the update.

- Gender Dysphoria will be changed to Gender Incongruence. It will also be removed from the mental health section.

*edit source
http://www.who.int/news-room/detail/17-06-2018-who-releases-new-international-classification-of-diseases-(icd-11)

Incoming shit storm
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Blightzkrieg posted...

Incoming shit storm

*holds your hand*

hahaha

Remember kids: Doctors are only right if you like what they're saying.
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What's the matter? Dysphoria implies something is "wrong", and people are identifying with it so Incongruence is more polite and accurate
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as long as they dont play video games its fine
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Smarkil posted...

as long as they dont play video games its fine

While od'ing on fentanyl.
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WHO are gamephobes. Discrimination against gamers (the gender) has been duly noted.
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Lokarin posted...

What's the matter? Dysphoria implies something is "wrong", and people are identifying with it so Incongruence is more polite and accurate

Reeeeeeeeee
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That's the ICD, not the DSM which is used to diagnose things
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Nightengale posted...

That's the ICD, not the DSM which is used to diagnose things

True, but I would imagine next DSM will have changes as well.

adjl posted...

Remember kids: Doctors are only right if you like what they're saying.

Which is literally what got us to this point >_> The medical field has caved to political correctness for decades now. You're looking at the culmination of this effect.
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Literally WHO?
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adjl posted...

Remember kids: Doctors are only right if you like what they're saying.

Which doctors? Gender Dysphoria is still very much a thing according to the DSM.

EightySeven posted...

adjl posted...

Remember kids: Doctors are only right if you like what they're saying.

Which doctors? Gender Dysphoria is still very much a thing according to the DSM.

You mean a book that was published five years ago doesn't include a definition update that was first released two days ago and won't be finalized for another four years? Whoa.

In all seriousness, I would expect the DSM to reflect this in subsequent versions. Calling gender dysphoria a mental disorder has always been a bit of a grey area, given that it's so often treated physically. Would I personally have declassified it as such? I'd say it's still too much of a grey area for that in my books, but I'm not a disease classification specialist. This also isn't final. As the link says, this is just a preliminary release to allow people to plan for and discuss the changes before they're formally presented in a year, then they'll come into effect in 2022.
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adjl posted...

You mean a book that was published five years ago doesn't include a definition update that was first released two days ago and won't be finalized for another four years?

Yes, the same book that countless doctors use to diagnose mental illnesses thus invalidating your snide, asinine remark about how people can't disagree with the World Health Organization because doctors created their guidelines despite the fact that it's far from representative of the psychology community as a whole.

adjl posted...

In all seriousness, I would expect the DSM to reflect this in subsequent versions.

Which is fine and when there's actual consensus I'll be a bit more tolerant of your obnoxious tone despite the fact that based on your posting history it's obviously colored by the same kind of political bias you like talking down to others for.

Zeus posted...

adjl posted...

Remember kids: Doctors are only right if you like what they're saying.

Which is literally what got us to this point >_> The medical field has caved to political correctness for decades now. You're looking at the culmination of this effect.

Or...and hear me out...A better understanding for it has grown out of research.

I mean 50 years ago a husband could take his wife to an asylum and have her institutionalized for disobeying and not performing "wifely duties". Homosexuality also used to be considered a mental disorder. Let's not pretend medicine doesn't advance on it's own out of better understanding, nothing political about it.

adjl posted...

In all seriousness, I would expect the DSM to reflect this in subsequent versions.

I would too. But less because it's been "proved" to be objective fact in any way, and more because the social sciences in general and psychology in particular have always been strongly influenced by public opinion and political pressure.

Generally speaking, there's always a pressure from the masses to define things we don't like as being disorders and things we approve of (or at least tolerate) as being "normal". And for those definitions to change radically the next time public opinion shifts.

(see also, homosexuality defined as mental illness)



adjl posted...

Calling gender dysphoria a mental disorder has always been a bit of a grey area, given that it's so often treated physically.

Arguably, the exact same same thing can be said of all body dysphoria disorders, yet very few people would argue that anorexia is a "lifestyle choice" or a "natural" mindset as opposed to implicitly accepting that anorexia is very much a disorder, and needs to be treated rather than tolerated or ignored.

The problem is that there are no hard and fast lines in psychology, and even when studies are done, it's difficult to extend the results of those studies to definitive statements about human nature (even ignoring the fact that many of those studies are themselves biased by public opinion and what politicians are willing to fund).


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The weak comparison of an eating disorder and gender identity kind of show why they don't belong in the same category don't you think?

Also gender variation has existed as long as people have been around. Ancient cultures show proof of this. So it is natural and part of the human experience. Not every gender variant requires medically intervention either.

EightySeven posted...

adjl posted...

You mean a book that was published five years ago doesn't include a definition update that was first released two days ago and won't be finalized for another four years?

Yes, the same book that countless doctors use to diagnose mental illnesses thus invalidating your snide, asinine remark about how people can't disagree with the World Health Organization because doctors created their guidelines despite the fact that it's far from representative of the psychology community as a whole.

adjl posted...

In all seriousness, I would expect the DSM to reflect this in subsequent versions.

Which is fine and when there's actual consensus I'll be a bit more tolerant of your obnoxious tone despite the fact that based on your posting history it's obviously colored by the same kind of political bias you like talking down to others for.

IronBornCorps posted...

Zeus posted...

Which is literally what got us to this point >_> The medical field has caved to political correctness for decades now. You're looking at the culmination of this effect.

Or...and hear me out...A better understanding for it has grown out of research.

I mean 50 years ago a husband could take his wife to an asylum and have her institutionalized for disobeying and not performing "wifely duties". Homosexuality also used to be considered a mental disorder. Let's not pretend medicine doesn't advance on it's own out of better understanding, nothing political about it.

"Because some things in the past changed, it means that anything I don't like -- regardless of what doctors think -- should change!" >_>

And false equivocations like that are being used to erode actual medicinal insights and is part of a broader, troubling trend where society chooses to "empower" people to self-harm -- including encouraging people to not take medication for problems

IronBornCorps posted...

I mean 50 years ago a husband could take his wife to an asylum and have her institutionalized for disobeying and not performing "wifely duties".

This deserves special attention, though, because first, it's a *little* hyperbolic and, more importantly, because that can STILL literally happen today.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Arguably, the exact same same thing can be said of all body dysphoria disorders, yet very few people would argue that anorexia is a "lifestyle choice" or a "natural" mindset as opposed to implicitly accepting that anorexia is very much a disorder, and needs to be treated rather than tolerated or ignored.

Also this, although I fully expect "Anorexic Pride" to be a thing next.
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EightySeven posted...

Yes, the same book that countless doctors use to diagnose mental illnesses thus invalidating your snide, asinine remark about how people can't disagree with the World Health Organization because doctors created their guidelines despite the fact that it's far from representative of the psychology community as a whole.

The DSM-V, however, is not any way indicative of whether or not the DSM-VI will reflect this change. Citing the DSM's current state as being representative of the current prevailing opinions in the medical field ignores that it's not at all a new book. It'll be used as the basis for diagnosing mental disorders until a new version (or at least revision) is released, but that doesn't automatically mean it's the best possible practice. Just that it's the current diagnostic standard.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

I would too. But less because it's been "proved" to be objective fact in any way, and more because the social sciences in general and psychology in particular have always been strongly influenced by public opinion and political pressure.

What? Social sciences are influenced by social factors? Alert the Internet!

Less sarcastically, that's more or less the same point I'm making. There will be opposition to this decision from people who are not at all medically qualified and have no actual reason to oppose it except that they don't like the idea of trans people and therefore don't want their existence validated in any way. There will be support for this decision from people who are not at all medically qualified and have no actual reason to support it except that they want to be accepting of people they feel are at risk of being stigmatized (as well as in response to the former group of people). In truth, everyone should just **** off and let science do its job, whether the results conform to their preconceived biases or not.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Arguably, the exact same same thing can be said of all body dysphoria disorders, yet very few people would argue that anorexia is a "lifestyle choice" or a "natural" mindset as opposed to implicitly accepting that anorexia is very much a disorder, and needs to be treated rather than tolerated or ignored.

Very arguably. Treatment for eating disorders is largely mental. It's often paired with diets and nutritional supplementation to help repair the damage done, which are physical treatments, but that's how the effects are treated, not the disorder itself. Similarly, sewing up the wrists of somebody who attempted suicide doesn't turn depression into a physical disorder.

The argument for calling gender dysphoria a physical disorder comes in that the treatment approach is to alter the body to match the mind. That's also done in some other examples of BDD (Clench's breast reduction, to use a PotD example), so you could make a similar argument there, but in the case of eating disorders in particular, it's necessary to change the mind instead.

Zeus posted...

I fully expect "Anorexic Pride" to be a thing next.

Whether or not that's a bad thing really depends on what you mean by "pride." Being proud of being anorexic? That's a bad thing, though acknowledging that is relatively new given the body ideals that have been promoted by the modeling industry. Not being ashamed of being anorexic? As with any mental disorder, that's unambiguously a good thing.
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