Poll of the Day > Four year jail for rape? Too much? Too little?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://imgur.com/j7yqmDz

Discuss.
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For false rape accusation you mean

Id say that amount of time seems about right
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should be longer
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Given her past history of offenses, it's probably fair. While people *could* argue on the basis of her alleged historical issues, the fact that she didn't seek treatment for those issues -- which caused her trouble in the past -- and engaged on this course undercuts those claims.
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It depends. Did the falsley accused person suffer jail time?
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Ha, the judge gave her a much smaller sentence and it was increased during appeals which revealed her craziness.
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Lokarin posted...

Ha, the judge gave her a much smaller sentence and it was increased during appeals which revealed her craziness.

It's kind of the icing on the cake. If she stopped while she was ahead, she would have got off with a slap on the wrist. The original sentence is listed as a 3-year community order, which looks like it was just some kind of community service or probation thing.

http://www.westmerciaprobation.org.uk/page.php?Plv=3&P1=11&P2=16&P3=19
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It should be way, way longer. Give it an equivalent sentence as an actual rape sentence.
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Nah, I'm sorry but false rape accusations should be treated much harsher then actual rape, if you can prove it was false completely. If they are caught on camera/mic saying it was false etc, yeah, throw the freaking book at them.

And I say that hating our jail system and wanting as few people in it as possible, but seriously if you are gonna send someone to jail for something they didn't do, just because your vindictive or something, that is far worse then actually raping a person, it's like a long multi year (in some cases) rape, of their entire lives.

I'm not even saying rape isn't bad, it is, that is the point, it should be taken seriously, including taking it seriously if someone makes false accusations. You can ruin a persons life with that, it should be almost equal with murder in my opinion as many people would rather die, then end up in jail and on a sex offenders list.
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Rape should have the death penalty or a minimum 20 year sentence (no parole) depending on the circumstances. It's a poor lifestyle choice and the other person has to live with your actions, so you may as well not have a chance to do it again. Lying about being raped should be treated no differently.
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VeeVees posted...

should be longer

This. Making false claims could ruin someones life and makes it even harder for real victims to come forward and get the justice they deserve.
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wwinterj25 posted...

VeeVees posted...

should be longer

This. Making false claims could ruin someones life and makes it even harder for real victims to come forward and get the justice they deserve.

While I don't feel that false accusations are punished as harshly as they should be, at the same time the problem with being overly harsh with false allegations is that it can discourage real victims from stepping forward. It's kind of a balancing act.
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I'm of two minds on this.

On the one hand, false accusations should be treated harshly. On the other hand, we have to be extremely explicit as to what considers a false accusation.
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Zeus posted...

wwinterj25 posted...

VeeVees posted...

should be longer

This. Making false claims could ruin someones life and makes it even harder for real victims to come forward and get the justice they deserve.

While I don't feel that false accusations are punished as harshly as they should be, at the same time the problem with being overly harsh with false allegations is that it can discourage real victims from stepping forward. It's kind of a balancing act.

Very true
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Zeus posted...

at the same time the problem with being overly harsh with false allegations is that it can discourage real victims from stepping forward.

How so?
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

Rape should have the death penalty or a minimum 20 year sentence (no parole) depending on the circumstances. It's a poor lifestyle choice and the other person has to live with your actions, so you may as well not have a chance to do it again. Lying about being raped should be treated no differently.

I do agree that it depends on the circumstancesand the type of rape. Like statutory rape when the "culprit" was unaware of the "victims" age, or rape that wasn't rape. but more like sex they regretted and called rape later, or drunk sex where they called it rape afterwards. I do agree that rape is extremely bad, though. But it would also have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. People have been put away for rape and then were found innocent afterwards. It would suck if they died because someone lied about something like that.

Also, my friend apparently read a news story about someone get 2 years in jail for slapping a waitress on the butt. I assume there's more to the story. Because that seems a little excessive...
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wwinterj25 posted...

Zeus posted...

at the same time the problem with being overly harsh with false allegations is that it can discourage real victims from stepping forward.

How so?

I would like to know this, too... If they are real victims, then they would probably be ok. Just because you can't fully prove that you were raped doesn't mean it's a false allegation that will always get you put in prison. It just means you couldn't fully prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt...
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LinkPizza posted...

I would like to know this, too...

I'd assume it's due to the possibility of the rapist being found not guilty and thus making the victim look like they are making false claims but I mean unless there is actual proof the victim is making false claims then clearly they shouldn't be punished.
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wwinterj25 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

I would like to know this, too...

I'd assume it's due to the possibility of the rapist being found not guilty and thus making the victim look like they are making false claims but I mean unless there is actual proof the victim is making false claims then clearly they shouldn't be punished.

Yeah. I had edited to say that I understand that. Haha. But like you said, they would have to have actual proof of the false allegations.
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LinkPizza posted...

Yeah. I had edited to say that I understand that. Haha. But like you said, they would have to have actual proof of the false allegations.

Yeah lol. Letting false accusers have a light sentence or no punishment at all is far worse for these actual victims than not giving them a harsh sentence to me.
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wwinterj25 posted...

Zeus posted...

at the same time the problem with being overly harsh with false allegations is that it can discourage real victims from stepping forward.

How so?

Because it's enough stress for a victim to come forward without worrying that their story might be turned on them and they could be charged with making the whole thing up. In the cases of people not making it up, you're dealing with an emotionally vulnerable person. Emotions don't tend to recognize the irrationality of fears.
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Zeus posted...

wwinterj25 posted...

VeeVees posted...

should be longer

This. Making false claims could ruin someones life and makes it even harder for real victims to come forward and get the justice they deserve.

While I don't feel that false accusations are punished as harshly as they should be, at the same time the problem with being overly harsh with false allegations is that it can discourage real victims from stepping forward. It's kind of a balancing act.

Uhhh no, this is awful liberal feminist logic at work. If women have legitimate proof of rape they can easily come forward. If they have proof then they'll have no reason to fear coming forward.
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Zeus posted...

Because it's enough stress for a victim to come forward without worrying that their story might be turned on them and they could be charged with making the whole thing up.

I guess it's a rock and a hard place situation for actual victims but letting false victims get off with no next to no punishment is certainly the worse of the two situations. Now only for the actual rape victims but also for the people who have their life ruined by false claims.

Recently a wrestler was falsely accused of rape for example. He's been sacked from WWE and likely will never return. On that note Al Snow gave some good opinions on this type of thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw3fHEMiPyc" data-time="
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Zeus posted...

wwinterj25 posted...

VeeVees posted...

should be longer

This. Making false claims could ruin someones life and makes it even harder for real victims to come forward and get the justice they deserve.

While I don't feel that false accusations are punished as harshly as they should be, at the same time the problem with being overly harsh with false allegations is that it can discourage real victims from stepping forward. It's kind of a balancing act.

Hey, I can actually agree with this wholeheartedly
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wolfy42 posted...

Nah, I'm sorry but false rape accusations should be treated much harsher then actual rape, if you can prove it was false completely.

No.
They should be treated the same. Not much harsher.
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JanwayDaahl posted...

Uhhh no, this is awful liberal feminist logic at work. If women have legitimate proof of rape they can easily come forward. If they have proof then they'll have no reason to fear coming forward.

This.

You're only at risk of being accused of false allegations if you have no proof whatsoever as we live in a world where reasonable doubt blocks prosecution.
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I don't think most people are going to be able to provide "proof" of rape unless they're planning on being raped, which I don't think is going to be the case 99.9% of the time. It's a tricky situation. No one wants to be labeled as a rapist, but you need to create an atmosphere that doesn't punish the victims and dissuade them from coming forward either.
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If you plan a rape Im not sure you have been raped
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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I don't think most people are going to be able to provide "proof" of rape unless they're planning on being raped, which I don't think is going to be the case 99.9% of the time. It's a tricky situation. No one wants to be labeled as a rapist, but you need to create an atmosphere that doesn't punish the victims and dissuade them from coming forward either.

I mean, they do have rape kits. And it's possible the rapist didn't bring an condoms. Or you can scratch them hard enough to get some skins cells under those nails. Or something. Things like that can help with proof...
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LinkPizza posted...

I mean, they do have rape kits. And it's possible the rapist didn't bring an condoms. Or you can scratch them hard enough to get some skins cells under those nails. Or something. Things like that can help with proof...

I just feel like if you're advocating for "physical, definitive proof" as the only way to convict a rapist, you're basically saying "tough luck" to everyone who's not immediately ready to come forward.
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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

LinkPizza posted...

I mean, they do have rape kits. And it's possible the rapist didn't bring an condoms. Or you can scratch them hard enough to get some skins cells under those nails. Or something. Things like that can help with proof...

I just feel like if you're advocating for "physical, definitive proof" as the only way to convict a rapist, you're basically saying "tough luck" to everyone who's not immediately ready to come forward.

No. There are other ways. And video proof can last for a while, too.(Like if they are around cameras). And while I'm not saying they should all come forward immediately, it would definitely help. Not because we won't believe them. But because it does help having more proof. It an be much harder if they wait. But it doesn't mean they can't prove it. But they really should wait if at all possible.
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People that make false rape claims should receive the same punishment as a rapist, right down to having their own form of a sex offenders register. People have the right to know if someone is a rapist, they also have the very same right to know who's going to potentially accuse them of being a rapist.
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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I don't think most people are going to be able to provide "proof" of rape unless they're planning on being raped, which I don't think is going to be the case 99.9% of the time. It's a tricky situation. No one wants to be labeled as a rapist, but you need to create an atmosphere that doesn't punish the victims and dissuade them from coming forward either.

Rape kits are a thing, getting your attacker's DNA under your nails is a thing, video evidence helps, etc.

In any case it's not a tricky situation like you're making it out to be. Without proof there should not be a conviction. It's way too easy to abuse for personal gain. End of story.
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JanwayDaahl posted...

Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I don't think most people are going to be able to provide "proof" of rape unless they're planning on being raped, which I don't think is going to be the case 99.9% of the time. It's a tricky situation. No one wants to be labeled as a rapist, but you need to create an atmosphere that doesn't punish the victims and dissuade them from coming forward either.

Rape kits are a thing, getting your attacker's DNA under your nails is a thing, video evidence helps, etc.

In any case it's not a tricky situation like you're making it out to be. Without proof there should not be a conviction. It's way too easy to abuse for personal gain. End of story.

You do know that rape kits are wildly unreliable.
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Also, in basically all of your guys' hypothetical scenarios, a situation in which someone is drugged and raped would not apply at all and is how a vast majority of rapes are committed.
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lihlih posted...

JanwayDaahl posted...

Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I don't think most people are going to be able to provide "proof" of rape unless they're planning on being raped, which I don't think is going to be the case 99.9% of the time. It's a tricky situation. No one wants to be labeled as a rapist, but you need to create an atmosphere that doesn't punish the victims and dissuade them from coming forward either.

Rape kits are a thing, getting your attacker's DNA under your nails is a thing, video evidence helps, etc.

In any case it's not a tricky situation like you're making it out to be. Without proof there should not be a conviction. It's way too easy to abuse for personal gain. End of story.

You do know that rape kits are wildly unreliable.

More reliable than someone's word.
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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Also, in basically all of your guys' hypothetical scenarios, a situation in which someone is drugged and raped would not apply at all and is how a vast majority of rapes are committed.

Drugs show up in blood, being taken away when barely conscious is suspicious and no, fuck off, most rapes aren't druggings.
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Mead posted...

For false rape accusation you mean

Yeah that's kind of a huge thing you left out of your topic, TC.

False accusation against someone will probably ruin their life / reputation forever, even after the accuser has been found to be a lying sack of shit. Throw the book at 'em, absolutely.
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LinkPizza posted...

Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I don't think most people are going to be able to provide "proof" of rape unless they're planning on being raped, which I don't think is going to be the case 99.9% of the time. It's a tricky situation. No one wants to be labeled as a rapist, but you need to create an atmosphere that doesn't punish the victims and dissuade them from coming forward either.

I mean, they do have rape kits. And it's possible the rapist didn't bring an condoms. Or you can scratch them hard enough to get some skins cells under those nails. Or something. Things like that can help with proof...

Ahh. Rape kits. The things that have backlogs of years and may never even be tested. Yep. Those magical rape kits.

Getting a rape kit done is pretty fucking traumatic FYI. and it's then humiliating and insulting when absolutely nothing is done with it and it sits untouched while your rapist is all out there
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Also, in basically all of your guys' hypothetical scenarios, a situation in which someone is drugged and raped would not apply at all and is how a vast majority of rapes are committed.

Drugs show up in blood, being taken away when barely conscious is suspicious and no, fuck off, most rapes aren't druggings.

This stuff is true. And I'm not sure most rapes are druggings...

Doctor Foxx posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I don't think most people are going to be able to provide "proof" of rape unless they're planning on being raped, which I don't think is going to be the case 99.9% of the time. It's a tricky situation. No one wants to be labeled as a rapist, but you need to create an atmosphere that doesn't punish the victims and dissuade them from coming forward either.

I mean, they do have rape kits. And it's possible the rapist didn't bring an condoms. Or you can scratch them hard enough to get some skins cells under those nails. Or something. Things like that can help with proof...

Ahh. Rape kits. The things that have backlogs of years and may never even be tested. Yep. Those magical rape kits.

Getting a rape kit done is pretty fucking traumatic FYI. and it's then humiliating and insulting when absolutely nothing is done with it and it sits untouched while your rapist is all out there

I figured it might be pretty traumatic. But I also think rape kits should be tested. Even if it's right before the trial. And it's not my fault they're not tested. They honestly should be. But it still could give more evidence. All I'm saying is it is something that could help. And it could... as long as they test it...
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LinkPizza posted...

I figured it might be pretty traumatic. But I also think rape kits should be tested. Even if it's right before the trial. And it's not my fault they're not tested. They honestly should be. But it still could give more evidence. All I'm saying is it is something that could help. And it could... as long as they test it...

Tested before trial? Wouldn't you want to have your test results confirmed before bringing charges and then someone to trial? That makes no sense.

The kits should be tested immediately. Many rapists have multiple victims. When backlogs get tested there are so many repeat offenders that if the tests had been done in a timely manner and pattern would have been found. It would have likely prevented a great deal more crime.

Instead they sit often for years in storage and may never even be tested
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Doctor Foxx posted...

LinkPizza posted...

I figured it might be pretty traumatic. But I also think rape kits should be tested. Even if it's right before the trial. And it's not my fault they're not tested. They honestly should be. But it still could give more evidence. All I'm saying is it is something that could help. And it could... as long as they test it...

Tested before trial? Wouldn't you want to have your test results confirmed before bringing charges and then someone to trial? That makes no sense.

The kits should be tested immediately. Many rapists have multiple victims. When backlogs get tested there are so many repeat offenders that if the tests had been done in a timely manner and pattern would have been found. It would have likely prevented a great deal more crime.

Instead they sit often for years in storage and may never even be tested

Hey! All I was saying is that rape kits could be useful and be evidence. They should be tested immediately. You're the one who brought up how they aren't tested. My original statement of they could be useful evidence stills stands. As long as they test them... That's all I was trying to say.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

LinkPizza posted...

I figured it might be pretty traumatic. But I also think rape kits should be tested. Even if it's right before the trial. And it's not my fault they're not tested. They honestly should be. But it still could give more evidence. All I'm saying is it is something that could help. And it could... as long as they test it...

Tested before trial? Wouldn't you want to have your test results confirmed before bringing charges and then someone to trial? That makes no sense.

The kits should be tested immediately. Many rapists have multiple victims. When backlogs get tested there are so many repeat offenders that if the tests had been done in a timely manner and pattern would have been found. It would have likely prevented a great deal more crime.

Instead they sit often for years in storage and may never even be tested

So your main contention against the maxim innocent until proven guilty, siding with someone's word of mouth alone, is that the justice system doesn't test rape kits on a timely basis? Seems like you're barking up the wrong tree if that's the case. No one should have to go to jail because of a system's ineptitude.
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Not long enough, but this is fine.
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Runner_style posted...

People that make false rape claims should receive the same punishment as a rapist, right down to having their own form of a sex offenders register. People have the right to know if someone is a rapist, they also have the very same right to know who's going to potentially accuse them of being a rapist.

^Yes.
Mention needs to be made of someone's crazy problems. If they do stuff like not paying their car bills, or stealing credit cards from their family or falsely accusing people of rape.
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