Board 8 > Fire Emblem Heroes Discussion Topic Part 15: Ode to the Fallen(Heroes)

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Still don't see why Grima's art is so bad

And KamikazePotato, what matchups would actually matter for a non -Spd VL Ike? I don't see how you would not want -Spd on him. I really like +Atk/-Spd, but +Def/+Res would be good to make him bulkier
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barreldragon88 posted...

Still don't see why Grima's art is so bad

And KamikazePotato, what matchups would actually matter for a non -Spd VL Ike? I don't see how you would not want -Spd on him.

You face a lot of dragons in arena, many that have Speed in the mid-30s range. A lot of them end up doubling Ike thanks to his -Spd bane.

And in general there's more units you would think that don't have really high or really low speed. People in the current meta are kind of hung up on units with extreme stats but in practice most units you fight won't have either 18 Speed or 50 Speed, they'll be somewhere in the middle. Ike is an enemy phase unit, but he's not a pure tank - his defensive stats are good but not amazing. His niche is to live through the initial blows and then heal up with Radiant Aether. Because Radiant Aether automatically procs as long as he has Quick Riposte, every point of Spd he can get to avoid being doubled is valuable (I think his ideal Boon is actually supposed to be Spd).

I disagree with a lot of the boon/banes people like, actually. Especially -HP. People really like -HP even though HP is a better stat than Def or Res. I also disagree with people's assessment of red swords in general. People are still stuck in the mindset of 'lol Reinhardt will kill them anyway' when everyone and their mother has at least one Reinhardt check on their team, and the new powerhouses are dragons, all of which (Nowi excluded) are best dealt with red sword users, especially the Falchion guys. It's a green meta. Get you some good red swords to deal with it.

Also waiting on people to realize that Lon'qu became S Tier as soon as Refined Slaying Edge became a thing. Just because someone isn't Ayra doesn't mean they aren't really good. ALSO not sure why people are saying that Valentine Hector powercreeped the original when Vanilla Hector is the only unit in the game capable of attacking twice with Wary Fighter in play, which is an extremely strong niche and puts him on even terms with Valentine Hector who is strong but doesn't do anything special. Also I'm biased but Felicia is absolutely disgusting now that they gave her the plate, she needs to move up the tier lists.

Rambling over.
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You can't really say flat out HP is a better stat than DEF or RES. DEF or RES give you better returns if

- You expect to be doubled a non-negligible amount of the time
- You expect to use a skill fueled by DEF or RES, of which there are significantly more than HP, and generally get better returns than HP for not having the 'most'

In general I'd rather tank a low defensive stat than HP, but if both defensive stats are decent it's definitely not a cut and dry decision and will depend on the other stats and skills that work with the unit. Though I do agree people undervalue HP somewhat.
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He's just ugly you can have a disagreeing opinion
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greengravy294 posted...

He's just ugly you can have a disagreeing opinion

He's beautiful. There.
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I also disagree with people's assessment of red swords in general. People are still stuck in the mindset of 'lol Reinhardt will kill them anyway' when everyone and their mother has at least one Reinhardt check on their team, and the new powerhouses are dragons, all of which (Nowi excluded) are best dealt with red sword users, especially the Falchion guys. It's a green meta. Get you some good red swords to deal with it.

The problem is that (a) the competition for swords is incredibly fierce, and perhaps more significantly it's fierce for almost everyone because a disproportionate number of free units the game has given out are sword-users, and (b) player phase infantry melee's not that great because positioning and threat range are king. I'm not sure I really buy this green meta thing (green is the rarest colour used by non-arena enemies; in the arena it's probably either green or colourless), and even then much of the green meta has terrible res and thus red mages/dragons seem more appealing than swords.

Lon'qu only has 29 atk, can't receive emblem buffs, and his bulk doesn't allow him much of an enemy phase. Just compare him with NY Camilla, who trades 4 spd for 4 atk (and can make up the speed with just one Goad Fliers, let alone other buffs), along with 5 HP for 9 def (winning trade even before you consider that Slaying Edge builds like to proc Bonfire/Iceberg). Lon'qu's perfectly functional if you like him and will be effective if invested in heavily, but top tier he is not.

Whichever defensive stat you plan to take most hits off of (usually your higher one) is better than HP. The other one is usually worse. This strikes me as self-evident. -HP being the second most desirable bane for many units means that most of us are happy if we draw it.
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I like his art(His Special activation and injured ones most of all), but I love his voice. David Vincent did a very good job on him.
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Mages can't deal with the green meta very well at all. All of the top picks have either Distant Counter or a Dragon Breath counter. The first hits hard and the second is a guaranteed auto-kill against mages. Mages are in general the worst class right now because the are no longer as effective against the new powercreeped armor units we have, and the dragon units which are now very popular eat them alive.

And yeah I'm talking about arena, you can clear no-arena content

Lon'qu's enemy phase is very strong. With refined Slaying Edge he hits really high HP ranges which means he doesn't die to any single hit, and his speed ensures he never gets doubled. That's all he needs. Guaranteed two-attacks with a guaranteed Luna is all I need to kill most units with him right away. He'll get smacked in the process but you want to take damage as Lon'qu because it puts you into range for Desperation or Wrath which then changes him from enemy phase to a player phase monster. Low attack doesn't matter nearly as much as it used to because it's so easy to get specials off and Luna cuts straight through enemy defense. Specials define a lot of the current meta. And simply put, Lon'qu kills easily because he always doubles and wracks up specials with ease, which is the most important part of his archetype. He has the second-highest base speed in the game and it matters. A lot. It doesn't take a lot of investment either. I run a simple Fury/Desperation/Luna build and it's all I need. Wo Dao+ or Wrath are also very good, maybe better, but they're not required. He's honestly the best sword type I've used in Arena - I mostly switched him out for Ike because the Arena scoring system is dumb.

Buffs don't matter. Everyone can get buffs.

Is Ayra better? Yeah. Is Mia? Yeah. Does that matter? No. There being better options than Lon'qu does not mean Lon'qu isn't really good. In general the whole 'reds are weak because there's competition' makes no sense. If there were 50 equally powerful reds who all deserved to be in S tier, than they should all be in S tier. Competition just means you don't have to use Lon'qu. If you do, you'll still do very well.
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goddamn just how many blue armored tanks are there.
Robin, Effie, now Hardin.

it's an awkward complaint because i own all 3.
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Buffs are relevant in this context comparing two different unit types. NY Camilla has access to better buffs than an infantry unit does, and that is part of the reason why she is superior. But you're right that Lonqu speed still makes him incredibly useful. I haven't built him, but my Athena is very similar and performs admirably with the simple fury/desperation/moonbow set.

I still find that Tharja is very useful in the arena. She has enough bulk to survive a counter from anything not blue, and blow up things in desperation afterwards. Breath targeting the lower defense doesn't do anything to her, and she can sometimes one shot Myrrhs for me in any case.
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There's also Lyn and Gwendolyn >_>

(Well Res tank for Lyn. 34 base isn't bad)
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Hrm...

If I'm not mistaken, I got 150 SP from the "Workout" training map. (This is with double sp)

My usual sp grinding map was CC- Chapter 1 and 2

I... want to say that gave me 180ish on double sp days. But it costs double the stamina.

Perhaps I don't need to keep CC uncleared anymore?
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Keep it uncleared for HM purposes. If you ever feel like grinding, that is better than the workout map
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Mages can't deal with the green meta very well at all. All of the top picks have either Distant Counter or a Dragon Breath counter.

And some of those top picks have bad Res and thus die in one hit to a good Triangle Adept Raven mage or buffed blade-tome user. Even something basic like vanilla Raudrblade Tharja with a triple-buff from Ephraim OHKOs Hector, Brave Ike, every darn green mage, and Myrrh... misses Fae but Fae also gets doubled. Never mind what a proper -blade mage with emblem buffs can do (granted, they actually get a bit worse against Brave Ike, but they also usually finish on the double unless they're named Leo).

I find enemy armour units pretty close to a free win in arena, so your hype there just confuses me. I assume they exist to prey on people who run all physical units or something. Dragons are a much more legit point but the reason dragonbreath has that effect in the first place is because ranged damage was so utterly dominant a few months ago. I still feel it has a clear advantage, but hey, if you're right, maybe we'll start seeing weapons which prey on melee types?

Lon'qu's enemy phase is very strong. With refined Slaying Edge he hits really high HP ranges which means he doesn't die to any single hit, and his speed ensures he never gets doubled. That's all he needs.

"Being able to take one hit" isn't a very strong enemy phase to me, as most units can do that unless they get a disadvantageous matchup. Lon'qu has a lot of trouble taking a second with his 22 defences. I'm not accusing him of being made of paper, but it's hard to hype him as a particularly good enemy phase unit, either.

Also, Swordbreaker is a common B skill in arena (especially on reds) so relying on speed to avoid getting doubled isn't always going to work (it helps if you run Swordbreaker right back, but I understand not wanting to do that on 39 base speed). And of course there's still Reinhardt who he needs to hide from.

Buffs don't matter. Everyone can get buffs.

Don't be disingenous. It's a weakness of infantry that their buffs are way worse (less than half as potent, generally), both hone/fortify and spur/drive/goad/ward.

Is Ayra better? Yeah. Is Mia? Yeah. Does that matter? No.

Is NY Camilla better? Yeah. Is Elincia better? Yep. Is Siegbert better? Hard to argue. Is Brave Roy better? Surely. And that's just non-armoured, high-speed sword users. I'm kinda inclined to throw Soleil in there - surely 9 atk is worth more than 4 spd - but you could at least squint on that one.

(I'd consider Mia worse than everyone I just listed, too.)
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1. Range was incredibly dominant until recently, yes. It's why IS spent like half a year releasing dedicated range counter abilities/units/seals. Now they aren't.
2. Raven mages are still good but not nearly as good as they used to be. They can still do their job but the chance of them getting slapped in the face instead is very real. Tharja probably does hold up better than most due to having mixed defensive stats, meaning dragonbreath doesn't hit her as hard.
3. You won't see weapons preying on melee types, cause they're not the meta. They're the counter-meta. And it could easily change again, but at the moment, they make for very good additions to your team.
4. I should've phrased it differently - essentially Lon'qu has a very good enemy phase upon the first combat, upon which he takes damage, goes into Desperation range, and transforms into a very good player phase character. I like using him to bait in both dragons and other melee types because his defensive stat being HP instead of Def or Res means he can tank a hit from all types.
6. Reinhardt has a ton of counters these days and every arena team runs them. Adding to that, his usage has dropped off thanks to the existence of those counters and other units getting buffed and/or powercreeped to his level. The meta has shifted and Reinhardt is no longer overcentralizing or even the biggest part of it. Dragons and Armor is the new hotness.
7. I haven't seen Swordbreaker in like 40 matches. The B slot is way too valuable for something like that.
8. Mia is better than all those dudes - also I personally take 4 speed over 9 attack for the kind of unit Soleil and Lon'qu are. Regardless, I've said this like five times, but there being a lot of very good red swords doesn't mean that each individual red sword is suddenly going to be unusuable. It just means you have options. Lots of very strong options, actually.
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oh c'mon, even the Eilwood for Valentine's is a blue armored tank.
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The Takumi GHB is apparently kicking a lot of people's asses. I actually had an easier time with it than I usually do. Used Winter Robin, Mist, Dancing Azura, and Felicia. The first three are 5* unmerged, the Felicia is 5*+10 and basically who laughed at everything the map threw at her. Was relatively close, but having Winter Robin tank the left side while Felicia baited everyone on the right side eventually won the day. Azura was mostly used to dance Mist who ran around healing people like a madman. Madwoman. Madgirl.
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It took a few tries, but I did the GHB with Brave Roy, Lyn, Reinhardt, and a dancer. Roy with galeforce shenanigans does it again.

NeoElfboy posted...

Is NY Camilla better? Yeah. Is Elincia better? Yep. Is Siegbert better? Hard to argue. Is Brave Roy better?

I also agree with all of these characters being better than Mia. Flying/Cavalry have a great advantage in movement flexibility, and the effectiveness of their buffs. Roy/Siegbert with HB and Galeforce is more useful to me than anything Mia can do. Elincia's frailness is a bit of a concern, but I think I would still give her the edge.
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Lunatic was giving me fits. My Brave Ike didnt have enough attack, so with Aether proc he was leaving Takomeat 1 with 1 hp. Finally cleared it by swapping his Spd+2 seal (idk why he had that) for Atk+2 seal so he could one shot one of them. Rest of the team was Green Azura, Better Hector, and L'Arachel.

Basically once I killed most of them I retreated when the dumb red cavalry came, but if you run away he has trouble one shotting the green units cuz of the staircases.

Infernal is probably gonna be a nightmare without actually using a real team. I never even beat C&A Lunatic; I was gonna last night but I forgot. OOPS
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfnlGLZWr84

Felicia, Mist, Robin (Winter), Axzura. Took a video of my team's strategy. Most others seem to be clearing it via pure offensive + dancer shenaigans, so here's an alternative (that probably will not be possible for you, but hey). Apologies for the relatively low visual/audio quality.
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Slowly increasing my top arena score. Managed to get 4910 (Which is sadly only rank 8550 as of this moment in tier 19).

Having a mage + no blessings + not fully maxed skills (QR 2 throwaway seal on Valter) isn't helping things.

Speaking of his seal... I'm considering dropping the hp seal for Close Defense. A lot of times his health isn't high enough to Panic Ploy a target(Especially those damn dragons) anyway, Black Knight usually is the one panic ploying someone. Or perhaps Guidance since he's the sole flyer in my team atm.
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ghb with no orb reward means i'm not doing it until after TT is over
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The two new game modes sound cool as hell, I can't wait to see how they fuck 'em up.
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They do

It encouraged me to pull a few on the new banner

For my 10th Eirika!!!!!!! Yeeeeah boy
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Didn't get Celica but I got the Norhorian bffs selena and laslow

Getting Eirika to +9 is more or less worth the 13 orbs I decided to stop using on the banner

So hype
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Wow she's +ATK and -HP.

Conflicted between her having +atk or spd.......hmmm.
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I believe I have a +Spd 4* Eirika. If her refine is awesome, I may upgrade her.
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Soren and Eirika weapon refines, yes. I knew I put off refining Raven for a reason.

Looking forward to new modes too. I guess they don't want us to fodder that free Ike
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About damn time for the trio
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Looks like it will be Lukas in the arena for me next week.
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Got another Takumi for the freebie

I think that's my third or fourth Takumi freebie. I might just give Serra a Close Counter for the heck of it at this point even though I'm still not convinced that's the best skill for her A Slot.
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Of course Michalis and Nowi are bonus units during a banner like this. Guess it means I can still run Flier/Dragon emblem too if I decide I hate armor for now...
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Just spent a bunch of crests yesterday trying to get the highest scores possible and didn't quite break into tier 20, then when I went to the arena today to get my 100 feathers, the two scores I got were higher than all the ones I had seen. Alright cool, time to spend a bunch more crests then.
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Think I got my highest arena score yet this week with 4956

Shame I was in Tier 18 and not 19 or 20. I think I would've actually made 20 with this one.
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That would do it, Lopen. That's where I am in tier 19 this week
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To be clear I have made 20 before with a bit less but it's always nice to get into 20 since I can basically just coast to 4000 the next week and get 4 orbs + 2000 feathers

Maybe someday I'll actually try to stay in 20.
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I'm not 100% sure how I'm going to set up my team for this season.

BK
Nino
Valter

I want to run Grima, but I don't have armor march on either one of them(Though I could give Valter Guidance...).

There's also Nowi and Lukas, but neither of mine are all that built.

Then again it probably won't matter this week. I'll either hit tier 20(Which means "free" week for me)

Or I get demoted back to 18 in which case getting to 19 isn't that difficult.

What's ****ing crazy though is that 4910 might get demoted in tier 19 because right now I'm at 12,150/12,845

This score inflation is why I hate the blessing system.
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This rotation is ideal for me. It lets me run my best team of Caeda, Hinoka, Michalis and NY!Azura.

I'm in tier 19 but haven't gone into the Arena yet. Should I quickly do a full run (and probably get demoted), or hold off this week and start off tomorrow still in tier 19?
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You still get good rewards if demoted. No reason not to, if you have the time for it
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If you have a high enough point value team there's no reason not to do a quick string of 7 easy matches every week to at least break 4000 points. Easy feathers for 4k and it's better to get the tier reward than not even if you get knocked down.
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Yeah grab the 4 orbs and feathers. Even if you get demoted, it just means you have an easier time promoting next time(and you get another 4 orbs)
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4862 points from a perfect run. Guess I need more merges and to actually use blessings!
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Legendary Hero: Ephriam

Red: Summer Leo, Mia, Vanguard Ike
Blue: Summer Corrin, Shiro
Green: Brave Ike, Dorcas, Gunnthra
Colorless: Jaffar, Summer Gaius, Performing Olivia
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3/4 of the CYL2 winners got an alt just after winning CYL2. Maybe we are getting Spring Veronica next month?
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I was just thinking that about Veronica too. Would not be surprising.

Guess I'll be pulling for Ephraim here although his skill set doesn't sound so impressive
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Dark Young Link posted...

Legendary Hero: Ephriam

Red: Summer Leo, Mia, Vanguard Ike
Blue: Summer Corrin, Shiro
Green: Brave Ike, Dorcas, Gunnthra
Colorless: Jaffar, Summer Gaius, Performing Olivia

Video to go with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=723l_Je9ADU
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oh what. still no Summer Elise or Tiki? dang. might still pull green, but blue looks really bad for me. and Fjorm being on half of these means next Ephraim banner might not be for multiple months.
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Xuxon posted...

oh what. still no Summer Elise

I know right?
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sure wish i didnt waste orbs on a dupe hardin.............
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