Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 3: The Maddening (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

i think aa anime could lend itself well to filler. aa3's first two cases aren't really mainline-plot cases aside from introducing godot. i would like to see the characters interact a bit outside of cases entirely, though i doubt we will get that.
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I mean the first season had a completely unique episode so there's a pretty good chance we could get something else like that
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which was that, again?
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The flashback episode of Phoenix, Edgeworth, and Larry as kids

it wasn't that great or anything but it was nice that they had it
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ah. yeah. i'd prefer something set in the present, but that... did happen.
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I mean T&T has two cases set in the past so we could get something else like that

although hopefully something a little more relevant like maybe Mia and Diego trying to chase down Dahlia after 3-4 and how Diego ended up getting poisoned
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yeah, that seems reasonably likely, if not totally what i'm looking for.

i don't know where a good place to insert it would be as a gaiden story, since putting it after 3-4 feels like it takes away from 3-4, while putting it anytime relevant during 3-5 would feel like a massive slowing of momentum.
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I don't know if I'd want them to do a completely unique case or anything, so it'd have to be something they can do in a single episode, maybe two.
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also I went over to Court-Records to see what the people over there were saying about the anime announcement

and man some of them are really not happy about it
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not a case, i'd just enjoy an episode about random office shenanigans - phoenix apparently loves cleaning the toilet; charley has a storied history; maya should get to feast on ramen on-screen; the like. like the DBZ driving episode!
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Assuming 13 episodes to cover AA3, how many episodes should they spend on each case? Would you be okay with skipping a case to give more time to the other ones?

For references here is how the first series went:
1-1: 1 episode
1-2: 3 episodes
1-3: 3 episodes
1-4: 5 episodes
1-5: skipped
Childhood story: 1 episode
2-1: skipped
2-2: 4 episodes
2-3: 3 episodes
2-4: 4 episodes

I was thinking of a schedule like this:
3-1: 1 episode
3-2: 3 episodes
3-3: 3 episodes
3-4: 1 episode
3-5: 5 episodes

But I feel like something like that will mean rushing through every single case. I don't remember the case length stats off hand but 3-5 is a lot more content to squeeze into 5 episodes compared to 1-4.
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you may want 3-4 to be two episodes.

3-5 is doable in 5 episodes i think? one episode for each segment, two episodes for trial 2?
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I dunno. I just know that 2-4 felt really rushed in just four episodes, so 3-5 needs more than that, if nothing else.
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I do feel like 3-4 should be given 2 episodes. I remember 1-1 felt rushed being crammed into 1 episode. If I'm going to knock 3-2 or 3-3 down to 2 episodes I start feeling like it might be better to cut one and give the other cases more episodes to work with. I think I remember feeling like 4 episodes was about right for a case on the level of 2-2.
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is 13 the right episode count assumption? i thought we were looking at 26.

3-3 is a case that doesn't really mean much in the long run. you could color the I AM vase red, and have godot unable to read that (as that's probably the only canon implication from 3-3?)

3-5 isn't much longer than 2-4, so i think the one extra episode of breathing room is enough
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I suppose you could cut 3-2 down if you just make it about the murder case and remove the larceny case entirely, but that might be weird.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

is 13 the right episode count assumption? i thought we were looking at 26.

Well, stretching 5 cases (especially since two of them are trial only) across 24-26 episodes might be tough, although they could be more thorough with the cases if it goes that long.
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the twist is the best part of it, though :(
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I don't think they have announced an episode count for the anime. I went with 13 since they more or less went with 1 season per game last time.
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actually what if they just make the "bonus episode" 4-0 and that's where the anime ended

I made myself sad
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a verbose aa3 could last... not quite 26 episodes

3-1 1 ep
3-2 5 eps
3-3 5 eps
3-4 3 eps
3-5 8 eps

(this keeps in mind that 3-2 and 3-3 are longer than 1-4 by playtime)
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Eh, you could probably stretch 3-1 into two episodes, honestly.
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it's not about can, it's about should...
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I mean 3-4 isn't that much longer than 3-1
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fair point. it's far more substantial of a case, though!
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Eh, 3-4 isn't a very complex case. In both instances, Dahlia's on the stand most of the time.

I suppose you could pad it out by creating an investigation day or something.
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it's interesting now that I think about it -- 3-1's biggest flaw is how Mia is a bumbling idiot due to the tutorial nature, but that will be totally wiped out by the anime. hmm. I really wonder how they'll treat that. probably just the same way as the game but there are options.
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mia kiss ass in 3-1 though. she overcomes dahlia and performs all the action without help from grossberg at all. storytelling-wise, the bigger 'flaw' is how competent she is in 3-4
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Eh, Mia's bumbling only lasts through like the first testimony, really, and even then, she's pretty great.



probably still my favorite image in the series
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man the circus is about as annoying to navigate as Global Studios is in 1-3

so many unnecessarily complicated routes to get where you want to go
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2-4 has some of this too, especially in the engarde/corrida's room area
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2-3 investigation day 2 complete

that one was a good bit shorter in terms of line count

it was also the Maya show, and this is the first time the playable character didn't have the most lines in a segment

the only reason Phoenix got close at the end was because of the two Psyche-Locks that Maya doesn't participate in
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also I was kind of wondering if Maya could catch Edgeworth before 2-4 but it looks like she'll fall a bit short

I think she'll have the lead by the end of T&T though
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So I had to take a little break, but now I'm finally playing 6-5 and just got to the end of investigation day one

This is gonna be SO GOOD aaaaaaaa
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_Harmonica_ posted...

So I had to take a little break, but now I'm finally playing 6-5 and just got to the end of investigation day one

This is gonna be SO GOOD aaaaaaaa

yyyyesssss
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on a related note, I just finished 6-4!

you guys weren't wrong, this was a weird ass case. unless Uendo and his persona parade are about to take a flight to Khura'in, this case seemed entirely irrelevant to the rest of the game, which felt super odd, especially for a case this late in the game. I guess the obvious comparisons are 2-3 or 4-3, but even those (flawed cases both) felt more substantial. this genuinely felt like a DLC case, and treated like that it was actually pretty enjoyable. once I got over the everything is so Japanese vibe, it actually worked fairly well - the ending soba/udon twist was the only thing that really felt poorly adapted. I actually quite liked the cast too; Uendo in particular was pretty great (minority opinion maybe?) and absolutely the core of the case in an almost Atmey-esque way. The reveal of the actual killer felt pretty low-key after he left the stand. It was also fun to play as Athena, though this did ring as a totally shoehorned way to get her to do something, and I don't remember her feeling this unsure of herself in 5-3. Blackquill was also pretty great as a sidekick, and I genuinely enjoyed seeing him again, which was a pleasant surprise as I remembered him as good-but-not-great in DD. Sadhmahdi is still a pretty good prosecutor and a fairly dull character, but that didn't affect much here.

So yeah, a good case. Completely baffling in the context of the full game, and certainly one of the weaker non-tutorial cases in the series, but a good case nonetheless. If this and 6-2 are the reason that some people are down on AA6, I think I'll have a very positive opinion of this game indeed!

updated approximate case ranking:

perfect: 3-5 > 2-4 > 1-4
great: 1-5 > 3-4 > 5-4/5 > 3-3 > 6-3 > 3-2 > 4-4 > 5-3 > 1-3 > 5-6
good: 6-2 > 2-2 > 4-1 > 5-2 > 6-4
mediocre: 3-1 > 2-3 > 4-2 > 1-2 > 6-1 > 5-1 > 2-1 > 1-1 > 4-3

6-5, huh? let's do this.
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also, playing as Athena in 6-4 made me think: if AA4-6 is a loose Apollo trilogy, does that mean AA7 will start an Athena series? I'd be up for that, I think - she's probably a better sidekick than protagonist, but I enjoy her presence a lot.
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I won't answer fully until you finish 6-5 (which, warning you, is an absolute monster case).. but Athena is weird. I felt like 5-5 was a coming of age moment for Athena, coming to grips with everything.. and then she's even less competent in 6-4, to the point where I think Athena's core personality trait to the writers is her cluelessness. I do think it works well to play Nahyuta off of someone like Athena though. he's much better in 6-4 than in 6-2 or 6-3 due to the contrast.

6-5 hype
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LeonhartFour posted...

actually what if they just make the "bonus episode" 4-0 and that's where the anime ended

I made myself sad

Good lord no thatd be one hell of a kick to the nuts
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yeah, that was broadly how I felt. I think either framing the story as Athena's first solo case or a bona fide Athena-Simon team-up could have been good, but Simon did way too much of the actual legwork here; his role should have been halved or something.

and I agree that it seemed like the "Athena has grown up now" motif from 5-5 was reset here, only for them to get there again by the end of the case. kinda like Edgeworth in 1-5, actually. if Athena is going to be at the centre of things going forward, maybe they can just fudge the details a bit. that's what filler cases are for, I guess!
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keep in mind that chronologically the last case athena headed before 6-4 was 5-1

lol
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SeabassDebeste posted...

keep in mind that chronologically the last case athena headed before 6-4 was 5-1

lol

Yeah, I guess it's that in 5-3 she has Apollo with her the whole time, while in the other cases she at least starts out completely alone? It's still weird.
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All the weird, extremely Japanese shit is the best part of 6-4. Nahyuta explaining Time Soba has been his best bit so far, and Blackquill secretly(?) being a huge dork is always good. I'll agree with Giggs about the soba/udon part being bad. I also didn't like all the balloon boob jokes, and the case has one of the least likable defendants in the series - I was more sympathetic towards Simon's plight of potentially losing his favorite noodle joint.
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blackquill's openly a huge weeb. samurai stuff and all!
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He's a weeb who pulls it off. Obviously a fictitious concept, but that's all there is to it.
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I mean Phoenix needed to be bailed out all the time as a rookie and Athena's still essentially a rookie (Chronologically, 6-4 is less than a year after 5-3 and barely more than a year after 5-2), so all that stuff about her needing Blackquill's help at times didn't bother me. She figures out more on her own than people want to give her credit for there anyway. Besides, Blackquill is awesome, so it was a good excuse to squeeze him in there.

also THE MURDER WEAPON WAS UDON DOUGH was great
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People always forgot about one of my favorite moments in 6-4, which ranks high on my "list of great AA moments that nobody ever talks about": when Athena has a "turn your thinking around" moment and figures out why the tv has been moved, and she figures it out while Blackquill's still clueless. It's great and it really shows her as being a true Phoenix protege. I don't think Athena's really as helpless as people say in 6-4, Blackquill bails her out a few times but she's sometimes ahead of him on things.

I love 6-4. Blackquill's involvement is amazing, Nahyuta is at his most entertaining (which is funny considering 6-2 and 6-3 have more personal stakes for him), Uendo is a top-tier witness, and the whole case is entertaining throughout, it never gets slow or dull, it has really good pacing. I was totally on board with it once I was okay with the fact that it just serves as a fun intermission between the heaviness of 6-3 and 6-5.

6-5 trial 1, throwing it in tags on the off chance Giggs checks in

I figured Phoenix representing Atishon would be either a scheme or another case of blackmail, and I guessed it was the latter immediately when I saw Maya's conspicuous absence. It's a bit of a bummer not only because it reduces Maya to a damsel in distress yet again, but also because it would have been more fun to face the complete dynamic duo with Apollo and Athena. Of course, it does make sense that Maya wouldn't be able to just leave Khura'in because of the huge political implications caused by 6-3, and it was neat to be on the other side of one of these kidnapping cases, as well as one of those legendary insane last-minute Phoenix objections.

I really liked Armie Buff, she struck me as the most realistic "psychology witness" we've had since the mood matrix concept was introduced. Might have gotten just a little misty-eyed when she got up from her wheelchair at the end.

Excited to see where things go from here. I'm guessing Phoenix and gang will end up learning the founder's name from Rayfa, so a pre-emptive RIP to the current queen.
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Yeah, I appreciate 6-4 as a good breather episode because SoJ is a heavy game by the series' standards.
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Atishon is SO GOOD
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