Board 8 > Fire Emblem Heroes Discussion Topic Part 12: Book 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm considering giving it to Robin (F), but I also think Distant Defense might just be better on the A slot for what I want to do with her.

I'm not really what I'd call a Robin fanboy or anything but I like her and she is one of the tankier ranged units, and needs a lot of work to be viable. Beyond that? Yeah, not a ton of units worth considering-- all the other ranged units I like thus far are squishy. I'd already have given it to Serra if I wasn't unsure if it was actually the best in the slot-- like +5 ATK/RES is probably better.
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I feel like the Robins are underrated. My Triangle Adept Quick Riposte Male Robin counters a lot of troubling meta units. They might not be good for general usage, but they do their specific jobs really well.
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Are the Robins underrated? A lot of people talk about how good Robin(M) is and I'm sure Robin(F) is just as good in this blue meta. It's just that they're consistently underrated by the tier list because it goes off the impression that it's one-rounding player-phase units, which the Robins will never be.
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Yeah I already use Robin as a specialized Reinhardt/Lyn counter for Arena Assault-- and can usually spike someone else dead with Ignis, but like, if I wanted to make her more generally useful I think it's possible with the right skill choices. As far as +10 priority goes though I don't see doing her before Matthew and Tharja (well I'm only up to like 6 Tharjas but you know) at minimum so she won't be crazy for a long time even if I do invest.
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got an Est from my free summon with no reds appearing. i can make a +8 of her now, though i'd probably only do a 4* merge.

and Fjorm is a bonus unit, nice. i might still 5* Olivia or 4*+10 Donnel though. weirdly enough, Rhajat isn't a bonus unit. i think that happened to Ayra, too, who's a bonus now instead.
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Robins are fine but their Atk is kinda low and their speed is average so most builds they do, some other mage can do better. That said, raven tomes are great, and green mages are very valuable in general right now (seriously, you can never have enough if you do AA, so many Reinhardts...), so both are more than workable if you like them.

Fjorm is basically a blue Ike trading 5 Atk and 3 HP for 16(!) Res (she has the same inflated stat total as some other recent characters, hence the disparity) which I certainly appreciate on a Distant Counter character. Ice Mirror's interesting because it juices her power against ranged units letting her pretend she has high-tier power when countering them, but I dunno if an offensive special + B skill might not still work better.
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Looking at the Robins by their Attack/Speed is missing the point of the characters I think. They're very tanky for mages so they're perfect for baiting, especially if they have Triangle Adept. Their Speed is high enough that they can avoid getting doubled in a good number of situations, and Quick Riposte lets them double on a bait. In certain situations I even use my Male Robin to laugh off melee red attacks when I need someone to get in front. In my experience, there's almost always one character on the enemy team that Robin hardcounters. If there's more than one then he can pretty much sweep their team. And against the units he doesn't, Ignis does a ton of damage and lets him kill a lot of people regardless.

In general I think people focus too much on the Attack/Speed meta. BowLyn is easily the best unit in the game but outside of that I think defensive builds are about as good as offensive builds, especially after some recent changes.
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Spent ~30 orbs, pulled Siegbert and Soleil. That went way better than expected so I'm just gonna assume they're both -Atk...!
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Arena bonus characters. Ayra, Ephraim, and Fjorm this week give me a lot to choose from.
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Did Walhart come out, or is he expected to come out soon?
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Not yet. He'll probably be a grand hero battle, but there is no word yet on the next one.
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greengravy294 posted...

personally leaning towards giving her distant counter at least. shes absurdly tanky for an infantry unit as it is i think.

Her weapon already has distant counter built in.
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Ephraim huh

Rank 20 here we come !
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to reiterate: i actually super disliked legault (i know he's the "better" thief but i was fond of matthew so i just never bothered with him so i guess it wasnt dislike, it's just utter indifference). i always went matthew. hell my favorite pairing support wise was just to go guy/matthew

but I dunno, that art is kind of just off to me. same with ursula. and i wont even go into abominations like eliwood and rebecca.
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mcflubbin posted...

greengravy294 posted...

personally leaning towards giving her distant counter at least. shes absurdly tanky for an infantry unit as it is i think.

Her weapon already has distant counter built in.

i meant distance defense actually. was tired or whatever. woops
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I understand it with Ursula. Like I think her art is fine but it's kind of a weird take on Ursula compared to her FE7 art. If I really liked Ursula it'd probably grate on me a lot more. Like I have no real urge to draw for Lute because her art kinda isn't true to the character to me, despite technically not looking bad. (Unlike say Lloyd or Eliwood who just look straight bad)

I think Matthew's pretty much accurate though.
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Yeah, I have to echo Lopen here. Mathew looks pretty good to me.

Ursula looks off to me, but not to the extent of Elincia. I'm not sure what happened to Lloyd, Eliwood, and Rebecca
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Yeah Elincia probably looks the most "off" of the three mentioned

But I don't really care about her or Ursula as characters terribly much (haven't played FE10) so it's whatever to me.

Lute is my evidence I "get it" though. I mean I'd still use her if I ever drew her-- largely because there are hardly any good blue mages in the game, but yeah major letdown there.
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Blue mages really have a rough lot for me. Right now there are a few I'd use as characters, but for varying reasons I'm not interested.

Odin - Way too much effort to make decent. Still, he's the most likely for me to use at some point. I think Odin with dragon sidekick Ninian, with Ninian quadbuffing him with Light Breath could be fun-- Nino and Tharja would do this better but whatever.

Robin (M) - I like the avatar in Awakening in either gender (and think they're subtly different characters even) but I always made my male avatar look very different from this one, picked a different voice, and even renamed him. Contrast with Robin (F) where I happened to pick roughly the same appearance as the one used in heroes/smash/etc before those came out, and the same voice and left her name as Robin and I have attachment with one in this game and not the other. Give me a way to customize Robin (M) and I'm all over it though.

Lute - Character art bugs me to the point where it's distracting. Real shame because she was one of my favorites in FE8.

There are a few I'd use like Tailtiu or Linde I wouldn't hate to use just for being cute (haven't played their source games yet) but I haven't drawn them and I'm not giving them draws.
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I dunno he just looks too anime. Elincia looks absolutely okay to me, but she's not an accurate depiction at all so I can understand the uproar there.

also super let down by Lute not dropping as I thought she would. I got dorcas and mia so i was content with what i pulled (i got mia with like 1 or 2 days left..) but i actually really like lute.

damn IS.
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Lute's voice lines make up for her art, although her art could have been better. I'm not sure why they didn't give her a smug expression.

Elincia bugs me a ton because not only do I think her art is bad, her voice lines on the map are bad too. She sounds weirdly off-tone. It's a shame because her voice lines on her character page sound great. When I actually try to use her, I get the bad art + bad map voice lines combo. Really puts a damper on one of my favorite characters from FE9/10.

Odin I think is the one character in the game that you can't make good. I wouldn't even know where to begin with trying to fix that dude.
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Problems with Odin

- Speed is not high enough to double anything, but a lot of his stat points go there
- Attack is too low to hurt anything without massive amounts of buffing
- Unlike Henry doesn't excel at either defense stat so can't really tank anything without putting effort into it
- Robin (M) exists and is basically a superior way to do anything you'd want to do with Odin.

So there are two options I think might work that Robin (M) can't quite do quite as well.

Get Blarrowl+, crank the speed with the enhancement, gain power from your friends, and make it viable to double with just natural stats. Overall I think powered up Owl tomes are better for characters with more balanced stat spreads, and while I think Robin (M) is potentially also strong with the Owl the benefits it gives to his speed are minimal.

Keep the blade tome, keep defiant attack, survive a single hit (which Odin's stat spread generally allows pretty well as he has average defenses and high enough speed to rarely be doubled) and use Brash Assault Seal + Desperation +Defiant Attack to actually hit back pretty hard. The issue here is you need to +SPD because even at 32 SPD he's getting doubled by too much, he's too much work if he can't bait, and he SORELY needs every bit of attack he can get.

I'm probably going to try the latter build soon now that I can actually use feathers on things that aren't +10ing Serra again and it seems very Odinlike-- also it's much cheaper than giving him an owl tome.
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Hopefully Odin gets a seasonal Owain version like Laslow got with Inigo.

And yeah, Odin's default build was supposed to be use Defiant Attack to go huge, but it failed because Defiant skills in general are just not good in a meta where people are encouraged to one-shot people. Plus, his statline is just too weird even with going big on Defiant Attack; his Speed is just not nearly good enough and his Defense/Resistance is too balanced to be good either way.

Matthew's art is...fine. Generic. His expression kinda bothers me, but it's nothing awful.
Ursula's art is alright, but it doesn't fit what I thought of Ursula at all. I feel like both her lines and her art completely differ from what FE7 Ursula is.
Elincia is awful looking. It doesn't really represent her in FE9 and the art quality is just bad. The attacking art is especially bad.
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Honestly I think Odin would be viable if his base statline just gave him +SPD/-HP out of the box. So

40 22 35 25 25

Then at least you'd have one of the higher tier base Speeds so you could go -HP +SPD again, or -HP +ATK.

As it is a neutral version of that (aka +SPD/-HP) might be vaguely usable. It kinda sucks that you almost need to use the seal on Brash Assault to reliably double anything though. Odin with a defensive seal and a the ability to have 38 SPD out of the box would make him a lot easier to build.
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+spd -atk Linde with fury - 35 atk, 42 spd
+10 +atk Odin with life and death - 34 atk, 41 spd

it's dumb but enough that i could call it good. my +spd -atk Linde carried me though a ton of stuff. she's right up there with Hector, Reinhardt, etc. imo.

Lute's art doesn't bother me the way Elincia's does. like, it made me not quite as excited for her as i could be, but like KP said her voice more than makes up for it. Elincia, too, to a lesser extent.
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I generally hate the idea of using Life & Death to "correct" stats lines. Same reason I think Jaffar's default skillset is dumb. It's like hey you're using your A slot to make your guy do something their stat spread isn't really built for when you could just... use someone with a different stat spread instead.

If I have to do that to make Odin decent I want nothing with it.
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yeah, i agree 100%. his closest stat line is to MRobin, so i'd probably go raven with him if i had to do something. +atk -HP Odin is equal to a +spd -atk +res -def Robin. at least a +10 of that is actually superior to an unmerged Robin.
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oh whoops rip my 100 feathers today from AA... and another ~1000 i could have easily gotten.
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Mia's voiced lines are probably the second worst (of people I own) to Tailtiu

Nino is up there too.
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what, i love Nino's voice.

Colette's voice though, ugh. i understand it for a relative nobody like Tailtiu, but how did Fjorm get her, too?
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Colette?

Edit: Oh, she was working under a different name.
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I like Tailtiu's and Fjorm's voices a lot.

Mia is by far the worst-voiced in the cast and it isn't close.
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Mia still isn't as bad as Effie. but man those two are on another level.
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I like Nino and Fjorm quite a bit. I'm not sure who even contends with Mia for the worst voice. I don't like Effie either, but I think Mia is another level.
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Nothing can beat Effie's level of awfulness. Just listen to her Japanese voice for a different kind of experience..... They completely changed the character, and it's not a good change AT ALL.

I'm debating if I want to insert Fjorm into my arena team or a 4* enhanced Olivia. Anyone know what's the breakeven point for Fjorm with Water Blessing vs 4* enhanced Olivia?
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Oh yeah I forgot Effie. I pulled her as a 5* tried leveling her but her spamming HODOR CRUSH was just like "...why". She's probably worse than Mia I think.

Nino's fine, but the 'do my best' thing (especially on reddit) just kinda annoyed me I guess.
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barreldragon88 posted...

I'm debating if I want to insert Fjorm into my arena team or a 4* enhanced Olivia. Anyone know what's the breakeven point for Fjorm with Water Blessing vs 4* enhanced Olivia?

if you have a 4*+10 Olivia with full inheritance including 5* weapon, she comes out slightly ahead of a default Fjorm with some assist inherited. with water blessing on Fjorm + one other unit, Fjorm comes out slightly ahead instead. if you have any fewer than 10 merges on Olivia or any merges at all on Fjorm, it skews further in Fjorm's favor.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XF8AtQPzAIhyyW_fHHsbBd-Z2jWZM2rBwSkhWy8YeWk/edit#gid=0
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Man...pulling can be a kick in the nuts sometimes. I get that I have a low chance of pulling Katarina, but it still sucks seeing 5 out of my 17 orbs go down the toilet when a red orb doesn't even show up.
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Xuxon posted...

barreldragon88 posted...

I'm debating if I want to insert Fjorm into my arena team or a 4* enhanced Olivia. Anyone know what's the breakeven point for Fjorm with Water Blessing vs 4* enhanced Olivia?

if you have a 4*+10 Olivia with full inheritance including 5* weapon, she comes out slightly ahead of a default Fjorm with some assist inherited. with water blessing on Fjorm + one other unit, Fjorm comes out slightly ahead instead. if you have any fewer than 10 merges on Olivia or any merges at all on Fjorm, it skews further in Fjorm's favor.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XF8AtQPzAIhyyW_fHHsbBd-Z2jWZM2rBwSkhWy8YeWk/edit#gid=0

Bookmarked link. Thanks!

Who are you guys putting Water Blessing on? The fact it's not removable means you have to be very careful who you put it on. I'm thinking an armor like Hector is pretty safe, but the Spd boost doesn't do much for him.
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I don't know if I'll ever put it on someone. Having to field a specific character to get the bonus kind of kills my interest in the mechanic.
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I'll bless someone if a legendary lord that is actually interesting is released.
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brave hector is probably soon

surely hector gets a cool sword in fe7..............maybe

personally i suspect the blessing thing is testing the water(hahahaha) for permanent boosts like speed wings and shit.

honestly i kinda think that the one thing i really want besides tier shuffling is an actual promotion (not 4 to 5 star promotions). maybe on 3.0 or something. probably a fever dream since the original brave heroes are more or less "promoted" forms of sorts. except they felt the need to give lyn (and roy) a horse. rath is weeping somewhere.
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on a random aside since lyn teleports with sol katti's crit animation she'd totally whoop ike (with sword) (as seen in fe: path of radiance)

right?
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Lyn: "Nothing personnel...kid" *teleports behind you*

My decision to put Lucina on my team has worked out very well for me. There's a ton more dragons and she eats them alive. First time in a while that I've gotten my clean 7-win run in Arena.
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yeah im highly considering making ninian's light breath+ upgraded. its downright dirty. Otherwise, kinda unsure on what to spend it on. Nowi's a decent choice I guess too. There was someone else i was considering but i forget :(
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Nowi is busted right now. All the dragons got good but Nowi got REALLY good. I don't think she's Brave Lyn tier but she's close. When player-controlled I think she's about as good as Reinhardt. She's a lot worse when AI-controlled though, because her ideal build relies on being initiated on.
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But yeah on an actual serious note Brave Hector is almost (probably) gonna happen since he was the 3rd highest male on CYL voting and there's apparently going to be a new Brave banner unless the stupid owl LIED.

Only problem is that they've kinda ran out of swords in FE6/FE7 to even give him. Regal Blade's on Lloyd. I guess they could give him a lance? Apparently FE6 has him as a bonus character with lance availability so they could chuck some legendary lance on him. But that'd kinda make me sad since I totally remember him as a Axe dude that sometimes used a sword for fun.
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my nowi build is like...no A skill (thinking TA is best on her but i dont have fodder. maybe fury), QR, and like moonbow. dunno what Lightning breath upgrade i'd get. Either atk or defense since her speed is kinda terrible.

for whatever reason dragons count as an infantry unit. infantry pulse being actually available is huge imo
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reason i say TA is it may allow one shots on a neutral 40+0 lucina who is more or less the only falchion user that i'd ever see. seems more useful than +3 to all stats, but i dunno.
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greengravy294 posted...

But yeah on an actual serious note Brave Hector is almost (probably) gonna happen since he was the 3rd highest male on CYL voting and there's apparently going to be a new Brave banner unless the stupid owl LIED.

Only problem is that they've kinda ran out of swords in FE6/FE7 to even give him. Regal Blade's on Lloyd. I guess they could give him a lance? Apparently FE6 has him as a bonus character with lance availability so they could chuck some legendary lance on him. But that'd kinda make me sad since I totally remember him as a Axe dude that sometimes used a sword for fun.

They should make him a mage.

It would explain his daughter, at least!
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