Poll of the Day > Conservative MOMS are FURIOUS after a Teacher taught their Kids TRANSGENDERISM!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Conservative parents are FURIOUS at a kindergarten teacher who hasn't been named taught a lesson about a student's TRANSGENDER REVEAL that occurred MID CLASS!!

It happened last year at Rocklin Academy Gateway when a teacher gave a lesson on transgenderism because a boy in the class is transitioning to a girl

The California charter school and parents are now battling over whether the elsson was appropriate or if the kindergartnrs were too young to understand

During the lesson on the second to last day before summer break, a teacher read 2 books "I am Jazz and The Red Crayon" both meant to explain transgender to children between 4 and 8 years old.

But critics are calling this a "transition ceremony" and the teacher introduced the 5 y/o student to the class as a boy..the student then went into the bathroom and emerged dressed as a girl

The teacher reintroduced her to the children and explained she was now a girl with a girl's name and was to be called that from now on.

Parents said they had no idea about this lesson and weren't notified until a week later as they went to the Pacific Justice Institute and the California Family council to represent them

Greg Burt of that council said "These kids who never struggled with their gender identity before are all of a sudden scared they could be turned into a boy"

The teacher who read the book defended it and said "I'm s proud of my students, it was never my intent to harm any students but to help them through a difficult situation"

But one parent said "My daughter came home crying and shaking so afraid she could turn into a boy"

The district said the books were age appropriate and fell within their literature selection policy, unlike sex education, the topics of gender identity don't require priior parental notice

The school also said that not reading it would put them at risk of discrimination and could expose them to a lawsuit

But Rocklin Academy said there will be a policy change and said outside books will now be approved by administration first

Legislative manager and Equality California, Jo Michael who is transgender said early education is key to helping children understand transgenderism and said "Most people have a sense of their gender identity at age 3 or 4. It's important to note that other students really do need to have that opportunity to engage and hear from a trans student"

Do you have any beef with teacher kids about transgenderism?.

The Kindergarten Teacher -

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/22/19/4377F3F200000578-4813520-image-m-51_1503424841980.jpg

Outraged Conservative crybaby soccer moms -

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/22/18/4377F3D300000578-4813520-image-a-43_1503424109091.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/22/18/4377F3EE00000578-4813520-image-a-39_1503423823297.jpg

The books -

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/22/18/4377F3C200000578-4813520-image-a-41_1503423928499.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/22/18/4377F3C600000578-4813520-image-a-42_1503423939612.jpg
---

That's too young. And it's also too young for a classmate to transition. It should be illegal to encourage a kindergartner to transition. That should wait until they hit puberty. Kids don't know shit about life choices

"But one parent said "My daughter came home crying and shaking so afraid she could turn into a boy""

Lol, her parents are dumb
---

Zikten posted...

That's too young. And it's also too young for a classmate to transition. It should be illegal to encourage a kindergartner to transition. That should wait until they hit puberty. Kids don't know shit about life choices

If someone is too young to know they're trans, then they're also too young to know they're cis, so why force that upon them?
---

mrduckbear posted...

The California charter school and parents are now battling over whether the elsson was appropriate or if the kindergartnrs were too young to understand

There's your problem right there.

Golden Road posted...

Zikten posted...

That's too young. And it's also too young for a classmate to transition. It should be illegal to encourage a kindergartner to transition. That should wait until they hit puberty. Kids don't know shit about life choices

If someone is too young to know they're trans, then they're also too young to know they're cis, so why force that upon them?

That makes zero sense. You can't just reverse everything and expect it to logically work.
---

Zeus posted...

That makes zero sense. You can't just reverse everything and expect it to logically work.

So what's the difference? If a cis kid is old enough to know their own gender, why isn't a trans kid old enough to know the same thing?
---

It's not too young. "She was born as a boy, but she is really a girl." See? Transgender stuff explained on a child's level. There's nothing inherently inappropriate about being transgender, so there's no reason it can't be explained to a kid. You just leave all the medical details for when they're older.
---

mrduckbear posted...

Do you have any beef with teachers who teach little kids about transgenderism?

Not really the place to learn about these things. Although with that said I were forced to learn about Religious Education back at school so eh. If this is part of the process these days then the teachers are just doing their job so I've no issue with it. If not however then teachers need to stop trying to be parents to these kids.
---

Serras posted...

It's not too young. "She was born as a boy, but she is really a girl." See? Transgender stuff explained on a child's level. There's nothing inherently inappropriate about being transgender, so there's no reason it can't be explained to a kid. You just leave all the medical details for when they're older.

It rather muddies the water since they're years away from learning what biologically makes a boy and a girl what they are, which is the main point of contention to transgenderism in the first place.

It's inappropriate for teachers to instill beliefs in children, particularly when they are not equipped with the appropriate information to decide for themselves.
---

wwinterj25 posted...

with that said I were forced to learn about Religious Education back at school so eh.

You were taught what they were and what they believed, you weren't taught any of it as fact, it also occurred much later than year 1.
---

Kindergarten is way too young for that stuff

And wtf at the transitioning kids parents for allowing that shit at that age
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Serras posted...

It's not too young. "She was born as a boy, but she is really a girl." See? Transgender stuff explained on a child's level. There's nothing inherently inappropriate about being transgender, so there's no reason it can't be explained to a kid. You just leave all the medical details for when they're older.

It rather muddies the water since they're years away from learning what biologically makes a boy and a girl what they are, which is the main point of contention to transgenderism in the first place.

It's inappropriate for teachers to instill beliefs in children, particularly when they are not equipped with the appropriate information to decide for themselves.

Most kids already know the physical differences between boys and girls when they get to school. Especially if they have siblings. But even if they don't, how is it relevant? You don't need to explain genitals to a kid if they ask why someone is trans, you can just say that they're happier being a girl than being a boy (or vice versa). Pick a simple, age-appropriate explanation and you're good.

Beliefs don't have to come into play at all, and explaining that trans people exist is not instilling a belief in them.
---

He problem is this should be taught during sex ed. Sure a lottle kid may feel like they are in the weong body but you have to remember, these are little kids. Their imagindtion runs wild. Such as the poor little girl who thought she would turn into a boy. Obviously it was explained incorrectly to the kids and made no sense. They probably have no idea what the the heck happened or why.

Just is very inappropriate and should have had parents notified, regardless of the rules. Just because somethig doesn't say you can't, doesn't mean you should. Especially if you apply common sense to the situation.
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

You were taught what they were and what they believed, you weren't taught any of it as fact, it also occurred much later than year 1.

Point was I dealt with it despite not being religious in the slightest. Strange enough though this Asian girl was allowed to leave the class due to her religion. :\
---

Zikten posted...

That's too young. And it's also too young for a classmate to transition. It should be illegal to encourage a kindergartner to transition. That should wait until they hit puberty. Kids don't know shit about life choices

---

Golden Road posted...

Zeus posted...

That makes zero sense. You can't just reverse everything and expect it to logically work.

So what's the difference? If a cis kid is old enough to know their own gender, why isn't a trans kid old enough to know the same thing?

The difference is, for starters, that "cis" is a term popularized by SJWs to replace the word "normal." Given that it's the default state for 99%+ of the population (transgenders make up something like 0.2% or a similarly minuscule number), it hardly needs to be explained to them. You can hold off on the alternatives until a later age, unless you also intend to teach sex ed to six year-olds.
---

Serras posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Serras posted...

It's not too young. "She was born as a boy, but she is really a girl." See? Transgender stuff explained on a child's level. There's nothing inherently inappropriate about being transgender, so there's no reason it can't be explained to a kid. You just leave all the medical details for when they're older.

It rather muddies the water since they're years away from learning what biologically makes a boy and a girl what they are, which is the main point of contention to transgenderism in the first place.

It's inappropriate for teachers to instill beliefs in children, particularly when they are not equipped with the appropriate information to decide for themselves.

Most kids already know the physical differences between boys and girls when they get to school. Especially if they have siblings. But even if they don't, how is it relevant? You don't need to explain genitals to a kid if they ask why someone is trans, you can just say that they're happier being a girl than being a boy (or vice versa). Pick a simple, age-appropriate explanation and you're good.

Beliefs don't have to come into play at all, and explaining that trans people exist is not instilling a belief in them.

When the most persistent belief is that your genitals determine your gender it's absolutely relevant. Your teacher shouldn't be telling you what to believe, only how to behave i.e. "He believes he is/wants to be a girl, it would be polite to treat him as a girl." not "He is now a she, she is a girl, treat her as you would any other girl."

While transgenderism is a hot button subject, teaching a side is inappropriate for teachers to do.
---

wwinterj25 posted...

Point was I dealt with it despite not being religious in the slightest. Strange enough though this Asian girl was allowed to leave the class due to her religion. :\

Nobody doubts the existence of religion, it's a factual thing regardless of the validity of its beliefs. You don't "deal with" being taught objective truths, it's just more information for your repertoire.

Religious people get defense to choosing to being ignorant because it's a rule of their religion and it's more important to their religion they don't know than it is for the school to inform them.
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

-snip-

So one rule for one and a different rule for another gotcha.
---

wwinterj25 posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

-snip-

So one rule for one and a different rule for another gotcha.

Nah, it's just more acceptable to be willfully ignorant than tell opinions as fact.
---

Serras posted...

It's not too young. "She was born as a boy, but she is really a girl." See? Transgender stuff explained on a child's level. There's nothing inherently inappropriate about being transgender, so there's no reason it can't be explained to a kid. You just leave all the medical details for when they're older.

B.b.but what if Im born a girl when Im really a boy?
I dont wanna turn into a boy!!!
---

wwinterj25 posted...

Not really the place to learn about these things.

School is precisely the place to learn such things. The purpose of school is to prepare children to function as adults in society, and part of functioning as adults in society is understanding how some people are different.
---

no adj

in school we need to learn how to write a check.
---

adjl posted...

wwinterj25 posted...

Not really the place to learn about these things.

School is precisely the place to learn such things. The purpose of school is to prepare children to function as adults in society, and part of functioning as adults in society is understanding how some people are different.

The approach is important. Much like you don't teach the world was made in 7 days, you don't teach that gender is a choice. You inform people of the different beliefs that exist and allow them to decide what makes sense to them of their own accord.
---

Blasted_Fury posted...

no adj

in school we need to learn how to write a check.

School's over a decade long. They should have time to cover both subjects, particularly where they're both pretty quick lessons.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

The approach is important. Much like you don't teach the world was made in 7 days, you don't teach that gender is a choice. You inform people of the different beliefs that exist and allow them to decide what makes sense to them of their own accord.

I don't know what weird schools you're looking at, but every curriculum I know of that isn't being taught by a hardcore fundamentalist just teaches evolution, leaving other creation myths to be taught as part of a religious studies class that specifically explores such things. It's pretty standard for curricula to reflect the most up-to-date understanding science has of the subject (minus a decade or two because it takes a while to catch up); why should gender be treated any differently?
---

adjl posted...

why should gender be treated any differently?

Because transgenderism isn't the most recent understanding of gender, it's a currently hotly-contested issue so it's not suitable to teach in schools. If/when transgenderism becomes the generally accepted understanding of gender in the scientific community it can be taught freely in school on the basis of being fact as far as we understand. And if we want to go by your decade or two catchup rule then it'd be more appropriate to treat it as a madness, but somehow I doubt you want to support that in schools.
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Because transgenderism isn't the most recent understanding of gender,

Gender dysphoria is a pretty universally-recognized mental disorder. Do you deny its existence?

Kyuubi4269 posted...

And if we want to go by your decade or two catchup rule

It's not really a rule so much as how it typically goes. That's becoming less true with the proliferation of new information via the Internet, whereas it used to be that you had to wait for textbooks to be updated, and they'd often be decades out of date because a new class set of textbooks is expensive, and it's certainly not something that needs to be adhered to.
---

adjl posted...

Gender dysphoria is a pretty universally-recognized mental disorder. Do you deny its existence?

It's not recognised by the mods btw and it's different to say someone has a mental disorder than say what they believe is true.
---

Foppe posted...

Serras posted...

It's not too young. "She was born as a boy, but she is really a girl." See? Transgender stuff explained on a child's level. There's nothing inherently inappropriate about being transgender, so there's no reason it can't be explained to a kid. You just leave all the medical details for when they're older.

B.b.but what if Im born a girl when Im really a boy?
I dont wanna turn into a boy!!!

If you like being a girl you won't turn into a boy.
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

It's not recognised by the mods btw

In my experience, the mods like to nitpick between "mental disorder" and "mental illness," which is dumb and arbitrary, but they're generally fine with calling it a mental disorder unless you're doing so in a derogatory fashion (which, given your general attitudes on the subject, I fully expect you've been doing).

Kyuubi4269 posted...

it's different to say someone has a mental disorder than say what they believe is true.

To recognize the disorder is to recognize that gender identity doesn't necessarily align with biological sex. How best to treat that is still up for debate, certainly, but that's a matter for doctors and scientists to resolve, not school teachers. Until that debate is settled, the appropriate course of action for laypersons (including students) is to respect and support victims of gender dysphoria in whatever course of treatment they've undertaken, regardless of what that is. That includes telling their classmates what's going on, and what they're doing to treat the disorder.

In short, shut up and let doctors do their job. It's not your place to challenge the treatment plans other people have been given. For that matter, unless it's a close personal friend, it's not even your place to form an opinion on the matter, and even then it should be based on directly observing them suffering under the treatment plan, and not because you read something on the Internet that suggested it might not be optimal. Your place consists entirely of using the pronouns you're asked to use by people you meet, because trying to meddle in the treatment by refusing to do so will invariably do more harm than good.
---

adjl posted...

In my experience, the mods like to nitpick between "mental disorder" and "mental illness," which is dumb and arbitrary, but they're generally fine with calling it a mental disorder unless you're doing so in a derogatory fashion (which, given your general attitudes on the subject, I fully expect you've been doing).

Don't act like the mods are either consistent or unbiased.

adjl posted...

To recognize the disorder is to recognize that gender identity doesn't necessarily align with biological sex.

To recognise the disorder is to recognise that they think gender identity doesn't align with biological sex.

And despite your confrontational language we're coming from the same direction, I absolutely agree their issues are their own and that the issue should be handled carefully and respectfully. I just think how it's delivered to children needs to allow them to decide how they feel on the legitimacy of being able to be the wrong gender while respecting other people's decisions regardless.
---

adjl posted...

understanding how some people are different.

To be fair you would probably learn that without anyone teaching you.
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Don't act like the mods are either consistent or unbiased.

They are neither, but I'm pretty comfortable assuming that the issue here is how you talked about mental health, not the factn that you were talking about it at all.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

To recognise the disorder is to recognise that they think gender identity doesn't align with biological sex.

The additional word changes nothing, because gender is the psychological aspects of sex. Of course it's what they think. That's what we call stuff that happens in the mind.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

I just think how it's delivered to children needs to allow them to decide how they feel on the legitimacy of being able to be the wrong gender while respecting other people's decisions regardless.

So when they're young, say "Timmy's actually Tina now, so treat her like a girl" so they respect the person and their treatment choices appropriately, then introduce the deeper science and social controversy in higher grades when they can better understand all viewpoints and the nuances associated with them without compromising that basic respect? Sounds like a plan. I can't say I see how that contradicts how this case played out, though.
---

adjl posted...

The additional word changes nothing, because gender is the psychological aspects of sex. Of course it's what they think. That's what we call stuff that happens in the mind.

Gender is how society approaches sex, it's not something detached from sex, and the fact we're debating it is why children shouldn't be dragged in to the argument unknowledgable.

adjl posted...

So when they're young, say "Timmy's actually Tina now, so treat her like a girl" so they respect the person and their treatment choices appropriately, then introduce the deeper science and social controversy in higher grades when they can better understand all viewpoints and the nuances associated with them without compromising that basic respect?

Absolutely.

adjl posted...

I can't say I see how that contradicts how this case played out, though.

It goes against what I originally argued against Serras' "She was born as a boy, but she is really a girl." which is immediately taking the side of transgenderism which is pretty bias and harms future debate.
---

My only problem with it is that the science is still out on it, and very obviously so. Even the SJW camp contradicts itself between "gender is a social construct" and "people can be born the wrong gender." It can't be both of those, yet here we are... I'm firmly of the belief that there are male and female brains and that they can be switched through a genetic defect. I also think people can be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, or bisexual. That's literally it though. Until there's objective proof that I'm wrong, anything else is quackery in my opinion. To say none of these cases are related to mental illness or somebody seeking attention is foolish. Those cases would not apply to the majority, I would hope, but there's simply not enough evidence beyond educated guessing right now. There's a difference between strong science and weak science, and mistakes are made all the time, but something this vague isn't a topic I'd want treated as fact in schools. Not yet.
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Gender is how society approaches sex, it's not something detached from sex,

Gender dysphoria detaches it from sex. By definition. By acknowledging the existence of gender dysphoria, you acknowledge that gender is distinct from sex. That they line up a certain way 99.9% of the time doesn't change that they're distinct concepts.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

It goes against what I originally argued against Serras' "She was born as a boy, but she is really a girl." which is immediately taking the side of transgenderism which is pretty bias and harms future debate.

No, that's just what being respectful entails. Being respectful is not "okay, I'll play along with how you feel," it's "okay, I accept this."
---

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Even the SJW camp contradicts itself between "gender is a social construct" and "people can be born the wrong gender." It can't be both of those, yet here we are...

Sure it can. Almost every nature vs. nurture question ends up being a little bit of both. Almost everything about human behaviour is some combination of genetic predisposition and environmental stimuli. I see no reason to treat gender any differently.
---

adjl posted...

Gender dysphoria detaches it from sex. By definition. By acknowledging the existence of gender dysphoria, you acknowledge that gender is distinct from sex. That they line up a certain way 99.9% of the time doesn't change that they're distinct concepts.

It doesn't, much as schizophrenia doesn't make the dead come back as voices in the afflicted person's head.

adjl posted...

No, that's just what being respectful entails. Being respectful is not "okay, I'll play along with how you feel," it's "okay, I accept this."

You can respect a person's choice to believe something different, but I understand that's a difficult concept for you.

adjl posted...

Almost every nature vs. nurture question ends up being a little bit of both. Almost everything about human behaviour is some combination of genetic predisposition and environmental stimuli. I see no reason to treat gender any differently.

Gender can't be nurtured, much as you can't nurture your hair brown.
---

adjl posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Even the SJW camp contradicts itself between "gender is a social construct" and "people can be born the wrong gender." It can't be both of those, yet here we are...

Sure it can. Almost every nature vs. nurture question ends up being a little bit of both. Almost everything about human behaviour is some combination of genetic predisposition and environmental stimuli. I see no reason to treat gender any differently.

To a point it's harmless to play along, but if it's taken far enough you're enabling a mental illness and it's no better than giving money to an addict.
---

Sometimes I think to myself, we're not ready for that, people would be raving.

Then I think to myself, why do I stand up for Conservatives' feelings? They spent a decade trying to keep gay people getting married.
---

Yellow posted...

Sometimes I think to myself, we're not ready for that, people would be raving.

Then I think to myself, why do I stand up for Conservatives' feelings? They spent a decade trying to keep gay people getting married.

How you personally feel shouldn't be dictated by party lines, please don't let idiots misbehaving change your beliefs.
---

Golden Road posted...

Zikten posted...

That's too young. And it's also too young for a classmate to transition. It should be illegal to encourage a kindergartner to transition. That should wait until they hit puberty. Kids don't know shit about life choices

If someone is too young to know they're trans, then they're also too young to know they're cis, so why force that upon them?

It's literally a hormonal thing. So it literally means nothing until puberty.
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

It doesn't, much as schizophrenia doesn't make the dead come back as voices in the afflicted person's head.

That's really not a valid counter-example. Try again, preferably explaining your point itself instead of saying something poorly-considered that you think is self-evident.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

You can respect a person's choice to believe something different, but I understand that's a difficult concept for you.

This is not a belief, though. It's an identity. "This is who I am" is far deeper than "this is how I feel," and should be treated accordingly. If not, you aren't actually respecting it.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Gender can't be nurtured, much as you can't nurture your hair brown.

Again, poor counter-example, especially where environmental factors can change your hair colour (namely the sun, ignoring the obvious hair dye). If you're going to make a counter-example like that, you need to do a lot more to link it to the actual subject than "I guess they're both things that happen in the body and that means they're the same," because self-identity is very, very different from hair colour.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

To a point it's harmless to play along, but if it's taken far enough you're enabling a mental illness and it's no better than giving money to an addict.

How so? I see comments like that a lot, but they're never anything more than vague, conceptual quips that sound more or less logically valid, but never actually look at what the most effective treatments are to make the analogy any more concrete than that. That makes sense, given that it's not laypeople's job to determine the ideal treatment approach, but that becomes a problem when those laypeople decide that the doctors prescribing the treatment are wrong, without any basis. Just let the doctors figure it out, and do what they tell you to in the mean time.
---

Golden Road posted...

Zikten posted...

That's too young. And it's also too young for a classmate to transition. It should be illegal to encourage a kindergartner to transition. That should wait until they hit puberty. Kids don't know shit about life choices

If someone is too young to know they're trans, then they're also too young to know they're cis, so why force that upon them?

But thats just the thing

The Government itself says you are too young to truly be cis til you are 16-18 years old

Children arent even considering their sexuality until maybe until 11-12, why is a kindergartner who most likely runs around playing with his friends who pretend to be flying raptor zebras, suddenly the arbiter of his identity? Hes 5 for christsake.

Transitioning children should be illegal until they reach the age of consent.
After all, once you take estrogen or testosterone you become infertile, is that really a choice you want to give to a child? Just because they said they were a girl?

A transgenders perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9VihbrehGc

dioxxys posted...

Children arent even considering their sexuality until maybe until 11-12, why is a kindergartner who most likely runs around playing with his friends who pretend to be flying raptor zebras, suddenly the arbiter of his identity? Hes 5 for christsake.

Sexuality and gender identity are separate concepts. 5-year-olds know whether they're a girl or a boy, even if they don't know what their favourite genitals will be.

Now, I don't have an easy answer for the question of how best to treat younger cases of gender dysphoria. The decision to transition is one that has considerations young children simply won't be thinking about, but the disorder is definitely no less valid in younger children, plus blocking puberty makes the whole transition much, much easier. That's another thing science is going to have to figure out, and I don't think science has enough of a grasp on it for the law to even begin to try regulating it.
---

Blaire White is a horrible self-hating trans woman who's sold out to transphobes, and is pretty much the token "trans best friend" who they just like to tote out when it suits their needs. She is best avoided.

There's a big difference between gender and sexuality, and you're conflating the two. Most 5-year-olds don't know their sexuality, but they do know their gender.

It's important to start transition before puberty, when possible. That makes transition easier and more seamless. And yes, it's a good choice to give a child, because puberty is also irreversible. Why should a trans child have to go through that? Both routes have possible consequences, but you're not considering the consequences of not transitioning early.
---

Thats always the far lefts excuse when someone makes too much sense, "oh well they are just self hating"

"If you think that a child has enough foresight and the capability to make a life changing decision and permanently alter their body and sterilize themselves, theres something wrong with you."

Going through puberty permanently alters your body, yet the people who feel trans kids are too young to alter their body conveniently ignore that part. Their body's going to be altered in some way or another. Stopping puberty from starting is often beneficial, rather than letting nature take its irreversible course.

Also, young kids generally do know their gender.
---

I don't think there is a "Too Young" to learn about anything.

If one of their classmates is transitioning, they abosolutely should be taught about it, but if they came away thinking they can spontaniously change genders they should absolutely be taught by a better teacher.
---