Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 106: Miner Threat

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-wage-is-costing-jobs/

This is why I don't think a $15 federal minimum wage will work. If $15 minimum wage cuts jobs in Seattle, one is the highest cost of living areas in the nation, I just can't imagine what it will do elsewhere.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

The Mana Sword posted...

He's been tweeting a lot over the past few days.

it's scary how much he reminds me of ulti in his tweets.

Yeah, almost a year ago I was defending Ulti's inclusion in these topics because of this.
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Shaduln posted...

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-wage-is-costing-jobs/

This is why I don't think a $15 federal minimum wage will work. If $15 minimum wage cuts jobs in Seattle, one is the highest cost of living areas in the nation, I just can't imagine what it will do elsewhere.

A $15 federal minimum wage would absolutely wreck the economy
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Shaduln posted...

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-wage-is-costing-jobs/

This is why I don't think a $15 federal minimum wage will work. If $15 minimum wage cuts jobs in Seattle, one is the highest cost of living areas in the nation, I just can't imagine what it will do elsewhere.

The research does acknowledge some issues with gathering data on contract workers and doesn't actually suggest doing away with the increase.
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HaRRicH posted...

Yeah, almost a year ago I was defending Ulti's inclusion in these topics because of this.

at least ulti's bullshit was just trolling though (or so i assume - i'm not as much of an expert in determining when ulti's trolling as sir chris).

not sure if trump is trolling, but i'm not sure what's worse - if he's completely serious or if the president of the united states cares this much about being an edgelord. i guess the latter is better because that means he's not as much of an idiot as he seems, but it's still pretty bad.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Shaduln posted...

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-wage-is-costing-jobs/

This is why I don't think a $15 federal minimum wage will work. If $15 minimum wage cuts jobs in Seattle, one is the highest cost of living areas in the nation, I just can't imagine what it will do elsewhere.

The research does acknowledge some issues with gathering data on contract workers and doesn't actually suggest doing away with the increase.

I'll admit I skimmed it (plan on a full read when I get home), but I think the more important thing is that if it shows a decline in jobs in Seattle where the minimum wage was already over $10, what will it do to places where the raise is more dramatic?
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generally $15/hour does hurt the economy, though so does $7-8. the sweet spot has generally been acknowledged as $10-11 and if we could get that nationally it'd be pretty nice.

i mean shit, it's not even that in New York. it's not livable wage turf but it is not complete shit turf where 2 people on it can make it work.
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Oh, I agree that 7-8 is too low, just 15 is a bad idea.
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Shaduln posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Shaduln posted...

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-wage-is-costing-jobs/

This is why I don't think a $15 federal minimum wage will work. If $15 minimum wage cuts jobs in Seattle, one is the highest cost of living areas in the nation, I just can't imagine what it will do elsewhere.

The research does acknowledge some issues with gathering data on contract workers and doesn't actually suggest doing away with the increase.

I'll admit I skimmed it (plan on a full read when I get home), but I think the more important thing is that if it shows a decline in jobs in Seattle where the minimum wage was already over $10, what will it do to places where the raise is more dramatic?

Keep in mind that was the decline in full time jobs, not just jobs in general. A lot of those jobs could have moved from full time to part time. And the trade off is that the lost wages, while troubling, are under the condition that workers are also working less. This gives more opportunity to work other part time jobs or even go back to school.

It's imperfect but I don't think it's a failure.
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I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not worried about the impact in Seattle, Seattle will be fine. I'm more concerned about how $15 will impact Port Orchard.
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Shaduln posted...

Oh, I agree that 7-8 is too low, just 15 is a bad idea.

15 is definitely too extreme for most of the country, but it has to at least be pegged to cost of living and inflation, so that somebody working full time (even split across multiple jobs/without full time benefits) can live decently.
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In theory that's why you have individual areas determine their own minimum wage based on their own cost of living, but that'd probably be it's own type of shitshow.
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Ulti's gone from these topics?
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In an ideal world, states/cities would be free to set minimum wage as low as they like, and people who don't think it's a living wage would leave.

Granted, in the real world, this doesn't work for obvious reasons.
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Travel Ban (mostly) upheld:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/448960/victory-trump-scotus-restores-vast-majority-travel-ban
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The decision was complex, but even the liberal justices upheld the majority of the ban
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

The decision was complex, but even the liberal justices upheld the majority of the ban

I'm not reading majority at all, just that those without bonafide ties to the US can be blocked.
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TheRock1525 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

The decision was complex, but even the liberal justices upheld the majority of the ban

I'm not reading majority at all, just that those without bonafide ties to the US can be blocked.

Right, which more or less aligns with the revised criteria after they rushed through the first executive order (permitting students, people with work visas, and people with family here, etc.)
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Also halts refugees from Syria
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Also halts refugees from Syria

But refuses to enforce the refugee limit.
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MarioSuperstar posted...

Ulti's gone from these topics?

as long as sephy doesn't @ him, yes.
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Wanglicious posted...

generally $15/hour does hurt the economy, though so does $7-8. the sweet spot has generally been acknowledged as $10-11 and if we could get that nationally it'd be pretty nice.

Good ol' centrist Hillary was the one candidate actually advocating this
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So what's the ban now? 90 days for everyone those 6 nations who doesn't have established reason to be here?
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Looks like the ban was only upheld until the Court hears a full case on it, and that's now scheduled for October (which, coincidentally, is just over 90 days from now).

We'll see what happens then, I guess.
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Jakyl25 posted...

So what's the ban now? 90 days for everyone those 6 nations who doesn't have established reason to be here?

Keep in mind even in the revised ban, it only made exceptions for valid visa holders.

This ruling means anyone with even just a passport could have no problems.
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Regaro posted...

Looks like the ban was only upheld until the Court hears a full case on it, and that's now scheduled for October (which, coincidentally, is just over 90 days from now).

We'll see what happens then, I guess.

Court say they expect that the necessary revisions to the vetting process will be done in 90 days, meaning a push for another ban beyond the 90 days is likely to be struck down.
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not surprising most of it would pass, like it was said early on, this largely does fall in the president's power.
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Reg posted...

Corrik posted...

Kenri posted...

And if the parents don't or can't, the kids should suffer for it!

Not what it said again. Is there anything you do not try to spin?

Ok. So what should those kids do if their parents can't/don't get a job then?

It's a plan. They want to be able to provide a job for everyone so they can work and be able to provide for themselves. It is not a... we are cutting all these mother fuckers off and let them figure it out. It's a really common sense plan.
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Raising the minimum wage does shit. It just let's people charge more and then the middle class again gets crunched.
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It is not a... we are cutting all these mother fuckers off and let them figure it out. It's a really common sense plan.

Is this what a Trump stutter in text form looks like?
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I think SCOTUS should be ashamed of themselves. This is a sickening decision.
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Corrik posted...

They want to be able to provide a job for everyone so they can work and be able to provide for themselves.

That's not a plan, that's a goal. There's a huge difference.

As stated in that article Eddv posted, Republican plans to stimulate economic growth through tax cuts have consistently failed, even during periods that they have had complete control of the government.
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Corrik posted...

They want to be able to provide a job for everyone so they can work and be able to provide for themselves. It is not a... we are cutting all these mother f***ers off and let them figure it out.

ALSO:

This is the progressive pathology: Keeping people dependent so that government can redistribute income. The result is 45.8 million people on food stamps and 77 million on Medicaid, plus another 5.7 million in the Children’s Health Insurance Program. This is the false compassion of the status quo. We propose instead the dynamic compassion of work requirements in a growing economy, where opportunity takes the place of a hand-out, where true self-esteem can grow from the satisfaction of a job well done.

That phrase sure sounds to me like they want to cut people off from those programs if they don't find a job.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

They want to be able to provide a job for everyone so they can work and be able to provide for themselves. It is not a... we are cutting all these mother f***ers off and let them figure it out.

ALSO:

This is the progressive pathology: Keeping people dependent so that government can redistribute income. The result is 45.8 million people on food stamps and 77 million on Medicaid, plus another 5.7 million in the Children’s Health Insurance Program. This is the false compassion of the status quo. We propose instead the dynamic compassion of work requirements in a growing economy, where opportunity takes the place of a hand-out, where true self-esteem can grow from the satisfaction of a job well done.

That phrase sure sounds to me like they want to cut people off from those programs if they don't find a job.

If you don't get a job and are able to without good reason. Yes. Work Requirements has put in place in some states already.
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How do the topic's denizens feel about this classic bumper sticker:

Work harder.
Millions on welfare are depending on you.
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redrocket_pub posted...

How do the topic's denizens feel about this classic bumper sticker:

Work harder.
Millions on welfare are depending on you.

Sounds like a Republican car.
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Corrik posted...

If you don't get a job and are able to without good reason. Yes. Work Requirements has put in place in some states already.

Is "I am a struggling single parent" a good enough reason?

Is it your belief that many welfare recipients are just lazy mooches?
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Sounds like a saying people should actually feel pride in living by instead of a witticism that belies hatred of the less fortunate.
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Kenri posted...

Sounds like a saying people should actually feel pride in living by instead of a witticism that belies hatred of the less fortunate.

I see where you're going with that, but there's also the inherent fallacy that you working harder means more money is produced.
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/879326984794517507

This is the sort of compassion towards those being hurt by Obamacare that won an election.

I have never hated anybody as much as I hate this garbage excuse for a human.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Kenri posted...

Sounds like a saying people should actually feel pride in living by instead of a witticism that belies hatred of the less fortunate.

I see where you're going with that, but there's also the inherent fallacy that you working harder means more money is produced.

Good point! I forgot for a second that capitalism is inherently garbage.
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Kenri posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Kenri posted...

Sounds like a saying people should actually feel pride in living by instead of a witticism that belies hatred of the less fortunate.

I see where you're going with that, but there's also the inherent fallacy that you working harder means more money is produced.

Good point! I forgot for a second that capitalism is inherently garbage.

Don't let Paul Ryan hear you say that. He'll throw Atlas Shrugged at your head
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Capitalism is like democracy. It's the worst form of economics... except for everything else.
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Shaduln posted...

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-wage-is-costing-jobs/

This is why I don't think a $15 federal minimum wage will work. If $15 minimum wage cuts jobs in Seattle, one is the highest cost of living areas in the nation, I just can't imagine what it will do elsewhere.

Well thats seattle which is sort of a bad polity for this sort of thing.

You can have all the benefits of being in Seattle in Redmond or Puyallup who don't have the higher minimum
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

If you don't get a job and are able to without good reason. Yes. Work Requirements has put in place in some states already.

Is "I am a struggling single parent" a good enough reason?

Is it your belief that many welfare recipients are just lazy mooches?

Uh no thats not a good reason to not have a job. If you are below the line as a single parent working then you meet the work requirement
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/879326984794517507

This is the sort of compassion towards those being hurt by Obamacare that won an election.

I have never hated anybody as much as I hate this garbage excuse for a human.

Welcome to board 8 liberals.
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What if you apply to a lot of jobs but just don't get hired?
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red sox 777 posted...

What if you apply to a lot of jobs but just don't get hired?

Part of the work requirement is applying for jobs and doing public service work while on welfare. To my knowledge.
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Kenri posted...

I forgot for a second that capitalism is inherently garbage.

Capitalism is an excellent system for certain purposes. Take cars, for instance - now is probably the best time it's ever been to be buying a car, because you have a huge amount of choices and the only limiting factors are your budget and your needs in a car. Need lots of passenger room? There's a variety of minivans out there. Need to carry around lots of messy cargo? Go for one of the dozens of pickup trucks on the market. On a tight budget but still need transportation independent of any other schedule? There are entire companies dedicated to making affordable cars. Have a bigger budget and want to splurge? Go for a BMW, Lexus, or any other luxury automaker. And if you just want to go fast, there are plenty of sports cars out there just waiting for you to spend your money on.

The problem with capitalism is that it assumes everyone always has a choice in how they spend their money, and when it comes to things like health care that's just not the case. If you have $200 in the bank and no insurance, get sick, and are told your only options are a $500,000 course of treatments or death, you're going to take the expensive treatments even though you can't afford them because the alternative is fucking dying.
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Corrik posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/879326984794517507

This is the sort of compassion towards those being hurt by Obamacare that won an election.

I have never hated anybody as much as I hate this garbage excuse for a human.

Welcome to board 8 liberals.

Yeah sorry that I hate someone for wanting the entire health insurance market to crash because of pure spite (and who has some ability to make it so by refusing to make cost sharing payments; him making statements like this directly leads to insurers raising premiums or pulling out of markets).
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