Board 8 > A Feast For Crows Mafia: Topic 10 - Fire Consumes, But Cold Preserves

(+) Yeah! (+)

VeryInsane posted...

Anyway, thoughts on the current state of the game. In fact, let's go one by one:

Puns - Probably town. The optics of the game have just worked better the whole time when I've made that assumption.

Han - I... don't know. He's seemed pointlessly irritable the whole game but I can't tell if it's an act or just "Han feeling irritable". No read.

Death - My gut earlier said that he was scum. He's my probable "sixth man" if we're assuming a six-man scumteam, but I could just as easily see him being town.

Jeff - Almost certainly town, unless Jeff shooting Chris was some kind of insane scum gambit to vindicate Jeff through to the end of the game. That small possibility keeps nagging at me, but that's something to pursue later (if there even is a later; I'm dreading this being a lylo situation).

Red - Probably scum. This is a gut feeling.

Leo - I have been mostly taking his claim as read, which is a read that only becomes stronger when MI tries to take it apart (see below). Town.

MI - Trying to spin my interactions with Chris into largely nonsensical points against me. I have said several times that my and Chris' interactions make sense regardless of our alignment so trying to pigeon-hole me into an alignment based on those interactions just because we have a flip on him is foolish. As I have said, I was prodding Chris a whole bunch of different ways to see how he would react, and had some material ready to use it against him on D3 so I could provide something. This admittedly looks horrible for me since I never got to use it and wasn't free apart from that, but there you go. I'm not entirely accustomed to him dying on N2 (although, again, my memory, I'm sure it's happened.) The icing on top of all of this is that to have a Jack on top of everything just feels like the last straw on the camel's back in terms of "power overload". My strongest scum read.

Nana - Town. I've seen nothing to change my mind back to my original read here - likely town Puns saying one of the two of us has to be scum doesn't really change that either, as I have to go with how I feel. He seems to genuine and too earnest in his cluelessness to be anything else (and if you are scum, well, you've played a surprisingly good game so good on you, but you're certainly not my target for today even though you probably expect to be).

VI - Pushing me very hard all of a sudden. I'm starting to think Chris might have been trying to pull one of his patented "lynches on a scum mate to make himself look better" with his insistence on the VI lynch at the end of Day 2.

That was near the beginning of Day 4.

To be fair, those reads changed throughout day 4 as well. She had me town by eod
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I need to ingest those setups and try to think of what the last 2 scum can be

Part of me thinks they have to have something to counter Leo specifically but why wouldn't they have used it yet
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Vengeful_KBM posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

KBM: Probably also scum based on how she's misconstruing and making stuff up. She claims that "Nana has suspected me all game and done nothing", when she's done the same thing. Claims that Puns/Shad were covering for me day 1, but that's not true when you go back and read both the games and the votals, even if I were scum.

So let me just respond to this once and for all; I don't think I need to go wading through the archives again for this really.

- I'm not misconstruing anything or making anything up. If either one of us is doing this, it's you.
- When I say you've "done nothing" I specifically mean with your vote. Which you haven't. And you haven't addressed this any of the times I've brought it up, either.
- I never claimed Puns was doing anything, Puns is town. You're getting wrapped up in your own lies. Han is the one who in hindsight cast a vote that may have been partially to counter the pressure that was mounting on you at the time. The pressure was NOT all in votes - a lot of people were talking about how bad you looked at the very same time. This is what I have been trying to make clear. The votals are secondary to this.

I mean, I don't know what else to say here other than this is just a straight up fucking lie.

Topic 3 page 9, I'm not quoting every single post on the page, but:

P412: KBM unvotes me. This is the LAST vote on me, so I have ZERO votes on me at this point.

P427: KBM says: "Sorry, I'm multi-tasking at the moment but it's clear that the Nana lynch just isn't going to go anywhere today. My full attention will be back on this in a bit, but I'll be able to keep up with what's happening."

It isn't until P432, AFTER EVERYONE IS OFF MY TRAIN, including KBM who has already declared "Nana lynch isn't doing anything" that Han votes for Puns.

Han started the Stan train way earlier and the previous 100 posts are Stan and Han talking about Stan. This was way before I came into the discussion.

Shad isn't even involved in any of this.

Hell, if ANYONE is defraying for me, it's Death who says (P335) he would vote for Stan over me (and later does on P358) and MI who LITERALLY UNVOTED ME when Stan tried to push me as the counter to his lynch (P374).

Summary

-KBM claims Han and Shad covered for me day 1 when I was being discussed, by moving the lynch to Puns.

-This isn't true because my lynch was declared dead (by literal KBM) before Han moved to Puns.

-Shad commented about wanting to lynch Puns (who he was already on) in P417, AFTER KBM has unvoted and I have zero votes.

None of what KBM is spouting makes sense, but if no one is going to go back and read fucking topic 3 pages 7, 8, and 9, then who the fuck cares?
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Vengeful_KBM posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

KBM: Probably also scum based on how she's misconstruing and making stuff up. She claims that "Nana has suspected me all game and done nothing", when she's done the same thing. Claims that Puns/Shad were covering for me day 1, but that's not true when you go back and read both the games and the votals, even if I were scum.

So let me just respond to this once and for all; I don't think I need to go wading through the archives again for this really.

- I'm not misconstruing anything or making anything up. If either one of us is doing this, it's you.
- When I say you've "done nothing" I specifically mean with your vote. Which you haven't. And you haven't addressed this any of the times I've brought it up, either.
- I never claimed Puns was doing anything, Puns is town. You're getting wrapped up in your own lies. Han is the one who in hindsight cast a vote that may have been partially to counter the pressure that was mounting on you at the time. The pressure was NOT all in votes - a lot of people were talking about how bad you looked at the very same time. This is what I have been trying to make clear. The votals are secondary to this.

Specifically here on the bold:

There was no pressure on me when Han voted. The lynch on me had already been declared dead by KBM herself.

This is topic 3 page 9.

Please go and read this so you can see her lies and how she's trying to spin bullshit solely to mislynch me.

##Unvote
##Vote: KBM

Still think Immy is scum.
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Like, people have said I haven't been cohesive and have been all over the place, and I'm not going to deny that because it's true. But I'm not going to get ramrodded through and lynched because someone like KBM decided to make up a whole scenario and lie to everyone in the game and cross her fingers no one would actually go back and read the archives.
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I will go re-read, but from memory Nana's accounting seems more legit. People occasionally mentioned him but he was never really up for lynch.

However

I also don't know if that's damning KBM as manipulating things or if it's just KBM misremembering.

This kind of makes me doubt Nana/KBM as a team but part of me wonders if this could be a show.
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Nanahara715 posted...

Like, people have said I haven't been cohesive and have been all over the place, and I'm not going to deny that because it's true.

Why do you think this is?
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My Immortal posted...

I will go re-read, but from memory Nana's accounting seems more legit. People occasionally mentioned him but he was never really up for lynch.

However

I also don't know if that's damning KBM as manipulating things or if it's just KBM misremembering.

This kind of makes me doubt Nana/KBM as a team but part of me wonders if this could be a show.

This flies in the face of KBM's first post of the day, which I can't quote because it's too long. But she literally says she "took detailed notes starting at topic 3." She then bungles the entire juxtaposition of the last four pages of topic 3 in a way that, at this point, is intentional to make me look bad.
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Furthermore would argue that KBM indicating she's made a mistake after claiming to be detailed would be further evidence she didn't even write her own post, something I postulated earlier. I've never played with KBM before but she's certainly never given me the impression she's capable of doing this.

Actually,

Vengeful_KBM posted...

You're being pedantic in an attempt to comically misconstrue my point. I didn't say the lynch on you was ever going to be a success, I'm literally just talking about the specific timing of votes - especially Han's.

I may have mentally transposed Stan and Shad's votes at some point, admittedly. Their names look very similar. I suppose you think that means they should have been modkilled for confusing us.

Bold may have been ok if Shad and Stan voted around the same time, but someone who actually took a detailed look at topic 3 would see that the starting votals for the day ALREADY HAVE SHAD ON THEM. Even moreso, Shad's involvement topic 3 was minimal (stated earlier).

FURTHERMORE, KBM is STILL pushing this narrative DESPITE admitting/claiming that she had confused Stan (town) and Shad (scum) posts
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EVEN MORESO when Stan's vote on me specifically was to counter his lynch and this vote moved Death onto Stan and MI off of me, so it isn't like it was a subtle vote- Stan's vote garnered a fuck ton of attention and action and precipitated him needing to claim.

How you bungle this is fucking beyond me.
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##Unvote:

Thinking if KBM might be better way to go. This is the kind of fire I'm used to seeing in town Nana, but is he only forcing it now because he's on the chopping block.

Planning to re-read the topic/pages in question to ensure that Nana's account is accurate, but as stated it is sounding right to me.
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Also want to check in on red because I feel like he's been a non-entity today

Death too, and while I'm not worried about that I'd still like to hear more from him.
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Just realized that 8!/6!2! <30. Hmm.
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yeah I work on fridays
and I am back to ISOing Han for now
he really was kindof smug
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My Immortal posted...

##Unvote:

Thinking if KBM might be better way to go. This is the kind of fire I'm used to seeing in town Nana, but is he only forcing it now because he's on the chopping block.

Planning to re-read the topic/pages in question to ensure that Nana's account is accurate, but as stated it is sounding right to me.

I'm aware enough of the situation to know this is self serving, but scum Nana wouldnprobably have rolled over and just died.
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Okay, here are my notes at the end of Topic 3 without referencing Nana/KBM's post. After I submit this I'll go re-read theirs and compare.

Votals at the start of Topic 3:
[4] Scare: Leo, Stan, puns, Death
[2] Chris: (puns), Scare, Nana
[2] MysteriousStan: Han, dowolf
[2] Boko: MI, KBM
[1] Leo: Chris, (MI)
[1] puns: Shad
[1] Death: VI
[0] VI: (Chris)
[0] red: (VI), (KBM)
[0] Nana: (Chris), (KBM)
[0] MI: (puns)
[0] dowolf: (Chris)
[0] Jeff: (Nana)

-Starting on Page 6, I was the only vote on Nana and I was pushing him. I had left the dowolf lynch for Nana and Leo was grilling me on it.
-Potentially relevant pairing: Red pops in at this point and softly defends Nana
"Ehhh if nana could fake that anger from earlier I'd be kinda surprised."
-KBM Votes Nana, stating she 'would love for him to come out of the woodwork' (4-2 Stan-Nana)
-Nana questions my stating that he could fake the anger because the game I was thinking of where he was angry as scum he was legit angry due to host error
-Chris shows up to defend Nana
"Posting from my car if you vote [nana] I am going to hurt you."
-Leo votes Stan (5-2)
-Stan shows back up complains about his lynch
-Stan votes Nana to attempt to stop his own lynch with 3 hours left in the day (5-3)
-Deaths & Nana calls this out as shady. Death votes Stan (6-3)
-Red makes another comment defending Nana (& Stan)
"I suppose I would also say I'm not a huge fan of the two lynch leaders being lesser players."
-Chris shows up to defend Nana again
-I unvote Nana (6-2)
-Stan claims & unvotes Nana (6-1)
-Leo, death, dowolf, Jeff all unvote (Stan/Puns 2 votes, Nana/Chris/Leo/Death/FFD 1)
-Post 427, KBM states
"Sorry, I'm multi-tasking at the moment but it's clear that the Nana lynch just isn't going to go anywhere today. My full attention will be back on this in a bit, but I'll be able to keep up with what's happening."
No more Nana mentions in T3

T4
KBM votes FFD
Nana hates the vote and calls her out on her.
KBM states that the only reason she isn't voting Nana is because iut would be a splinter vote that would be useless. (P73)
Scare mentions Nana a few times while catching up but it's useless mentioning because it's old and not relevant to what is happening currently
Nana comes back near EOD with a wordless vote that causes dowolf to splinter to him

Day ends

I'm... not really seeing any traction on a Nana lynch at any point. There was a brief push but Stan consistently remained in the lead and by the time Stan claimed, the pressure on Nana was basically gone and nothing else happened the rest of the day.

Just from re-reading that I do not feel like Nana/KBM is actually a scum pairing.
However I do feel like red/Nana could be a scum pairing.

Now let's actually look at what Nana/KBM said about this EOD phase
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Nanahara715 posted...

Just realized that 8!/6!2! <30. Hmm.

what
---

I have a list of statement from various players - would like to know who doesn't agree with the following:

1) Nana and Immy are not scum together
2) Nana and KBM are not scum together
3) Leo is town
4) Puns is town
5) Nana and VI are not scum together
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My Immortal posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

Just realized that 8!/6!2! <30. Hmm.

what

It means the game is small enough I can put all possible town/scum combinations in a spreadsheet and view it as a single page.
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Vengeful_KBM posted...

Meanwhile Chris is threatening to hurt anyone who votes Nana. Han led the lynch on Stan while MI sort of de facto spearheaded the lynch on Nana - in a way that is making me trust MI more. Han is also trying to throw a lot of suspicion on Red which makes Red look a little better.

Meanwhile (yes I use this word a lot) Shad and Han both spearheading the Puns lynch from early on makes Puns look really good now, to the point where I'm kind of expecting him to die tonight. This also diverted attention from the Nana lynch option at the end of the day - **Nana is looking bad on a reread of the end of D1. Puns seems QUITE clean now that Shad and Han have both flipped scum.** Also MI is putting in a lot of town-looking legwork at the end of the day, compiling posts of information and whatnot.

Bold = True, Italic = Not

Nanahara715 posted...

No joke, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris wrote that KBM post.

This is the only thing Nana says about the KBM post the first night

KBM mentions the Shad/Han thing a second time
Then Nana goes in on her logic.

Nana's post in 153 is accurate logic.

...not a great look for KBM.

Hm hm hm.
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Nanahara715 posted...

I have a list of statement from various players - would like to know who doesn't agree with the following:

1) Nana and Immy are not scum together
2) Nana and KBM are not scum together
3) Leo is town
4) Puns is town
5) Nana and VI are not scum together

1) Agreed, but seems disgenuine for me to state that on myself.
2) ...Based on today, it could be an act to make people think that. Looking at how you guys interacted at the end of D1, I hesitantly agree.
3) Agreed.
4) Agreed.
5) Agreed, but solely because I don't think VI is scum. I haven't seen anything that prevents you two from being scum together.
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But Chris & Red defending Nana at the end of D1 really make me think Red/Nana is most likely right now.

And the fact that Nana didn't say anything about KBM's faulty logic the first time she brought it up makes me worry Chris had to tell him on the scumboard that KBM was wrong and to jump on it to get KBM lynched.

BUT I don't like that KBM was so wrong at what was happening and when called on it doubled down.
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Chris made a fleeting comment somewhere about how if he and Red were scum together, they would utterly dominate.
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And if Chris didn't get vig shot & Leo & Stan co-outed Shad... I think they would have utterly dominated.

Red having no presence might be due to the game flipping on him as hard as it did dejectinghim
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Post 45 this topic was where I noticed KBM not being consistent/being confusing. That's what led to the cascade.
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My Immortal posted...

And if Chris didn't get vig shot & Leo & Stan co-outed Shad... I think they would have utterly dominated.

Red having no presence might be due to the game flipping on him as hard as it did dejectinghim

Don't get me wrong, I just remember it being said, and it's fully possible it was just a #subtlebrag.
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[2] Nana: KBM, (Leo), (MI), puns
[1] KBM: Nana
[0] MI: (Leo), (Nana)

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch! Day ends on Today at 9 PM (About 10 hours from now)
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Nanahara715 posted...

I have a list of statement from various players - would like to know who doesn't agree with the following:

1) Nana and Immy are not scum together
2) Nana and KBM are not scum together
3) Leo is town
4) Puns is town
5) Nana and VI are not scum together

I cant exclude/accept 1 or 2 with any certainty
I do agree with the rest though
maybe Leo could be indy, but thats not a road I am willing to cross yet
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My Immortal posted...

Leo3L posted...

In retrospect this is all super obvious but I was thrown for the longest time by shooting Boko N2. Also I have yet to see a compelling hypothetical argument for how scum found out about the bus drive.

Two theories -

They have a rolecop and targeted puns thinking he was lying about Moon Boy

Han tracked me and saw me visit 2 targets

MI why not mention the more obvious answer of they tracked puns thinking he was prosty or something.

Nanahara715 posted...

Chris made a fleeting comment somewhere about how if he and Red were scum together, they would utterly dominate.

I made this comment multiple times. We would.

My Immortal posted...

And if Chris didn't get vig shot & Leo & Stan co-outed Shad... I think they would have utterly dominated.

Red having no presence might be due to the game flipping on him as hard as it did dejectinghim

Also i literally said why i haven't been here to open the day.

Rereading topic 1:

KBM says "Prevailing wisdom is Nana is scum but I disagree," but by my count only Dowolf and VI had indicated they felt I was Town.

Red calls me the easiest lynch and VI calls him out for never having played with me in a game where I've gotten lynched.

Han says he doesn't like KBM and says jumping on me was a scum move because I would be easy to lynch.
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htaeD posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

I have a list of statement from various players - would like to know who doesn't agree with the following:

1) Nana and Immy are not scum together
2) Nana and KBM are not scum together
3) Leo is town
4) Puns is town
5) Nana and VI are not scum together

I cant exclude/accept 1 or 2 with any certainty
I do agree with the rest though
maybe Leo could be indy, but thats not a road I am willing to cross yet

Why would we ever cross the leo indy line. Hes literally not SK and hes recruited a billion twn. Its not something that would ever, ever, be up for discussion in this game.

Leafeon13N posted...

htaeD posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

I have a list of statement from various players - would like to know who doesn't agree with the following:

1) Nana and Immy are not scum together
2) Nana and KBM are not scum together
3) Leo is town
4) Puns is town
5) Nana and VI are not scum together

I cant exclude/accept 1 or 2 with any certainty
I do agree with the rest though
maybe Leo could be indy, but thats not a road I am willing to cross yet

Why would we ever cross the leo indy line. Hes literally not SK and hes recruited a billion twn. Its not something that would ever, ever, be up for discussion in this game.

"Your opinion on whether or not the role makes sense as Indy means absolutely fuckall when the host has used such a role in a comparable manner in previous games"
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Hey red, thoughts on KBM? You've been silent on her
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Nanahara715 posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

htaeD posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

I have a list of statement from various players - would like to know who doesn't agree with the following:

1) Nana and Immy are not scum together
2) Nana and KBM are not scum together
3) Leo is town
4) Puns is town
5) Nana and VI are not scum together

I cant exclude/accept 1 or 2 with any certainty
I do agree with the rest though
maybe Leo could be indy, but thats not a road I am willing to cross yet

Why would we ever cross the leo indy line. Hes literally not SK and hes recruited a billion twn. Its not something that would ever, ever, be up for discussion in this game.

"Your opinion on whether or not the role makes sense as Indy means absolutely fuckall when the host has used such a role in a comparable manner in previous games"

.... Read the damn post. We would literally never hunt leo as indy in this game. Even if he were indy, which is a stupid as fuck discussion mind you, hes a role that would win with town. He'd simply win with us.

VeryInsane posted...

Hey red, thoughts on KBM? You've been silent on her

Kbm has been sitting in the background making most bad paranoid posts, but that is kbm. Probably about as likely as nana to be scum.

Also leo eased my paranoia a bit but i have to get out that han is 100% the type that will hammer a town over scum and thiink he can get away with it.

Also this is the second morning in a row where i woke up and wanted to get back to sleep but couldn't because you guys annoyed the hell out of me.

So in most cases, you still think scum is between MI/Death and KBM/Nana each

MI/KBM makes the most sense to me, but with setup I could see KBM/Nana just cause Suprak loves OP stuff
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also yesterday was only half your guys' fault but it certainly didn't help. I did manage to get back to sleep but was very restless.

Btw people have been able to look at those setups more than i have did suprak use any roles that were just meta bait? Ie godfathers with no cop or things like that.

Leafeon13N posted...

Btw people have been able to look at those setups more than i have did suprak use any roles that were just meta bait? Ie godfathers with no cop or things like that.

Chris was actively pissed at the end of GOT2 because as "Jack of All Upgrades", he could be upgraded X times for killing X "Kings, and had abilities for each one, but there were only (X-1) Kings in the game so he said host lied about the setup.

Godfather that game was also murky because there was no cop, but a flavor scanner.
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Also i was curious if anyone was going to mention it but kbm and i claimed randyll and samwell tarly

Obviously, these two characters don't get along. But it totally feels like a possible host trap. Especially since we'd be the only family(outside scum) with two characters in the game to my knowledge.

Curious what other people think on the flavor claim because i was curious why no one brought it up.

Leafeon13N posted...

Also i was curious if anyone was going to mention it but kbm and i claimed randyll and samwell tarly

Obviously, these two characters don't get along. But it totally feels like a possible host trap. Especially since we'd be the only family(outside scum) with two characters in the game to my knowledge.

Curious what other people think on the flavor claim because i was curious why no one brought it up.

I don't know the flavor, but why couldn't one or both of these be on the safelist?

She claimed before you and you didn't say anything then, if this is that important to you.
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Leafeon13N posted...

Btw people have been able to look at those setups more than i have did suprak use any roles that were just meta bait? Ie godfathers with no cop or things like that.

DYL's role in GOT1 was someone who had to target players to find Syrio and become a dayvig

Syrio wasn't in the game
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Nanahara715 posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

Also i was curious if anyone was going to mention it but kbm and i claimed randyll and samwell tarly

Obviously, these two characters don't get along. But it totally feels like a possible host trap. Especially since we'd be the only family(outside scum) with two characters in the game to my knowledge.

Curious what other people think on the flavor claim because i was curious why no one brought it up.

I don't know the flavor, but why couldn't one or both of these be on the safelist?

She claimed before you and you didn't say anything then, if this is that important to you.

Its not that important or I'd have brought it up by now. It is more idle curiosity.

Nanahara715 posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

Also i was curious if anyone was going to mention it but kbm and i claimed randyll and samwell tarly

Obviously, these two characters don't get along. But it totally feels like a possible host trap. Especially since we'd be the only family(outside scum) with two characters in the game to my knowledge.

Curious what other people think on the flavor claim because i was curious why no one brought it up.

I don't know the flavor, but why couldn't one or both of these be on the safelist?

She claimed before you and you didn't say anything then, if this is that important to you.

Also that first statement is completely nonsensical. Literally every flavor claim could have been on the safe list.

Nana you are making me really hope you are scum.

Also leo i see your login n time update. I want to know what the rabble thinks because i literally trust them more than anyone in the game.