Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 412: New Japan's Answer to the Mae Young Classic?

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is the future of women's wrestling:

https://streamable.com/34hst
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Bad Luck Fale is tapping that.
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I feel like such a smark now because I find New Japan shows way more entertaining than WWE shows. Even the stupid sports entertainment parts are more entertaining to me. Fucking Yano is the best.
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To add to the discussion from the end of the last topic, remember that Vince is the arbiter of WWE morality the writers are appealing to.

WWE babyfaces will always exhibit qualities that Vince McMahon considers to be virtues. Let WWE's examples of what good people are like be a window into his soul.
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TNA is still in WWE's trap now that Jarrett is back. Alberto is just sort of a dickish guy fighting a more successful heel. But it's better than Eddie Edwards being a complete cardboard cut-out with no personality who's just happy to be here.
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Jakyl25 posted...

To add to the discussion from the end of the last topic, remember that Vince is the arbiter of WWE morality the writers are appealing to.

WWE babyfaces will always exhibit qualities that Vince McMahon considers to be virtues. Let WWE's examples of what good people are like be a window into his soul.

So whenever Vince sees criticism of himself on twitter, he goes around backstage bragging about how he put so many people out of business?

Okay actually that does make sense, thanks
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Caught the G1 announcements, good to see how damn over Juice Robinson is.

The Juice is Loose vs Loose Explosion could be a sleeper match.

This tournament is a massive opportunity for Zack Sabre Jr to raise his profile further.

Ibushi's announcement got the biggest overall reaction.

Would love to see Suzuki vs. Sabre Jr, Omega vs. Ibushi, Naito vs. Ishii, Omega vs. Suzuki, Nagata vs. Ishii, Okada vs. Ibushi, Sabre Jr vs. Ishii and Naito vs. Omega.

If I can get at least 4 out of these 8 matches happen in some fashion, that's a success. Lack of Nakamura, AJ Styles, Marufuji, Shibata, Honma, Nakajima and Prince Devitt does hurt a lot, but they've done ok with the replacements.

In an ideal world, this would have been the tournament where Adam Cole breaks out with the Japanese audience, but like with Roddy Strong, we've got a bit of a missed opportunity. A strong NJPW run adds an extra 0 to your WWE paycheck, it's a great investment at this point.

When Juice returns to WWE, he might come back as an upper midcarder on a lot more money if he keeps his current upward trajectory.
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Panthera posted...

So whenever Vince sees criticism of himself on twitter, he goes around backstage bragging about how he put so many people out of business?

not sure if mcmahon or trump
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Jakyl25 posted...

To add to the discussion from the end of the last topic, remember that Vince is the arbiter of WWE morality the writers are appealing to.

WWE babyfaces will always exhibit qualities that Vince McMahon considers to be virtues. Let WWE's examples of what good people are like be a window into his soul.

I meant to bring this up with the Bayley crap going on, but this is also why all of the really good faces are buried and made to look like idiots. It's why Bayley is an absolute fucking idiot who has to look as pathetic as possible, and why Sami Zayn has to be a moron who people find annoying and gets arbitrarily forgotten about or buried, and why they never actually wanted to put over Daniel Bryan as a top guy forever because Vince doesn't think a nice guy like Daniel Bryan can ever be the top guy.

It's sad, but you'd think if you actually had more quality faces that it would help provide depth instead of making a lot of characters just feel like they blend in with one another.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

and why Sami Zayn has to be a moron who people find annoying and gets arbitrarily forgotten about or buried,

To be fair, this happened because he had heat backstage for something
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To be fair Sami Zayn being an annoying moron is the best his WWE character has ever been imo
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I feel like such a smark now because I find New Japan shows way more entertaining than WWE shows. Even the stupid sports entertainment parts are more entertaining to me. Fucking Yano is the best.

I'm so proud of you.
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Can't wait to see Daniel Bryan back. It just didn't feel like Smackdown with him gone.
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You know what?

Props to Carmella. She did an outstanding job there.
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They met criticism head on and said, "u mad bro? Fuck you!"
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I just hope they don't do something dumb to even further kids gloves the womens MitB and be like "Well even though we've never done anything about it before, we are for this one"
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thud

ow
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"As if the first match wasn't bad enough, we're going to undo the only good part of said match and redo the whole thing!"

Why you hittin' RAW levels of awful, Smackdown
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If Carmella doesn't win the rematch then this angle is shit.
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https://twitter.com/totaldivaseps/status/876969075750178816
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I could watch Chad Gable hit Chaos Theory on Kevin Owens all day.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

TNA is still in WWE's trap now that Jarrett is back. Alberto is just sort of a dickish guy fighting a more successful heel. But it's better than Eddie Edwards being a complete cardboard cut-out with no personality who's just happy to be here.

That's the entirety of Eddie Edwards' character range

But LOL they have Alberto as the face against Lashley? That's so backwards
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You need to change your sig, JaKyL. Because Daniel Bryan hates Ellsworth now and threatened to punch him.
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StealThisSheen posted...

"As if the first match wasn't bad enough, we're going to undo the only good part of said match and redo the whole thing!"

Why you hittin' RAW levels of awful, Smackdown

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

If Carmella doesn't win the rematch then this angle is shit.

Really? Really. Really??

I think Smackdown handled it 100x better than I could've expected.

Carmella - Her promo KILLED. I got completely behind her POV and justifications. She doesn't care about making history, she cares about her future. Some NXT Kevin Owens heeling where you fully understand their mentality even if you hate them for it. She even brought up past history, something WWE never does with two of the interferences in the MitB of the past three years!!! She completely nailed it. And then later, the devastation of having it ripped away from her was extremely well portrayed. I completely feel miserable for her, even though I absolutely hate howshe went about things.

Becky Lynch - BECKY LYNCH!!! <3 <3 <3 Becky Lynch was pitch-perfect as the upstanding face who keeps trying and trying to always do the right thing even though she knows that cheaters keep prospering, and her... utter frustration with what went down was absolutely heartwrenching. THIS IS A FACE!!! THIS IS WHAT A FACE SHOULD FEEL LIKE AND ACT LIKE!!! Also, credit to Sami for being a face counterpart in his honest wishes before she spoke with Bryan. And with Lana getting two 'handout' opportunities on top of the slimy win, she really felt like she was about to break. Loved her.

James Ellsworth - So dickish, such a massive massive heel that Daniel Bryan's fiery response was PERFECT. I cannot wait for the eventual Becky Lynch vs. James Ellsworth fight, if it ever gets allowed because they are building it up so incredibly well.

Daniel Bryan - He had his hands full tonight. Hype Bros, Sami Zayn, running a show, and especially the MitB situation, and it was all complex and not easy and it was so so so good. Do we know if he made the right decisions? We know he did the best he could to give people their opportunities without taking any easy way out. He set up some great matches for next week with the tag opportunity and MitB match and I'm excited. He also handled all the different personalities and opinions of the women and made a bold choice to basically restart the match. He's also completely correct that no one has ever climbed the ladder and unclipped for someone else before, and I also think he's right to nip it in the bud now before someone tries it again in the future.

Because if he lets this go and lets Carmella hold the briefcase, the Women's Division is gutted by the controversy and all future MitB matches will have these horrible chances for another occurrence like this and it would still be legal (or illegal with a change post-match). All five can try again. Carmella was excellent Sunday night, and whether or not she wins next week, she came out of tonight looking like such a better character than she's been since, like, Survivor series.

Between fiery promos from Carmella, Lynch, Bryan, & Orton; excellent set-ups for matches next week; a PPV-caliber Ziggler vs Nakamura match; Harper main eventing; and holy crap CHAD GABLE SINGLES TITLE MATCH.... this was easily the best Smackdown since WrestleMania.
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TheRock1525 posted...

You need to change your sig, JaKyL. Because Daniel Bryan hates Ellsworth now and threatened to punch him.

Oh yeah, and end of love for the Big Hog.
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tag
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What's funny is that this is the only place I've read that the Women's MitB match was bad.

Everyone else seemed to think it was ok or good, some even great with a shit ending.
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Also, Talking Smack with New Day and WWE Dads was incredible.
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The issue is that if anybody but Carmella wins, it becomes "We had to add rules to a match that has no rules in order for you to win."

It's automatically tainted

And it looks ESPECIALLY bad when they could have added said rule right after the MitB where Maryse tried to get the briefcase for Miz, but they didn't.
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StealThisSheen posted...

The issue is that if anybody but Carmella wins, it becomes "We had to add rules to a match that has no rules in order for you to win."

Why are people saying this? The match has rules. It clearly has rules for victory. Why is adding another rule in the spirit of the match (i.e. getting the damn briefcase yourself) something inherently bad?
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TheRock1525 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

The issue is that if anybody but Carmella wins, it becomes "We had to add rules to a match that has no rules in order for you to win."

Why are people saying this? The match has rules. It clearly has rules for victory. Why is adding another rule in the spirit of the match (i.e. getting the damn briefcase yourself) something inherently bad?

yep, totally agree

Let's put it this way: would it be fine if Lita climbed up the ladder in a men's ladder match for Edge or the Hardy Boys to win it for them? I think everyone would agree the finish sucked. They're simply trying to make the match more satisfying for viewers because someone that's not in the match winning the match for someone who IS in the match is not good television for most people.

EDIT: also a guy won the women's first mitb, good on wwe for knowing that the briefcase needs to be taken down by a woman because it's a women's match.
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Of course, I think it DOES make the WWE look dumb if this is them simply going "we fucked up by having a man win our first ever women's MitB so we're doing a re-do" rather than this being a good way to reintroduce GM Daniel Bryan to say "fuck you" to all the cheaters on the brand and ensure the best competitors do win.

Cause as a story? This is perfect. As an about-face to negative reaction to it? It's shit.
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StealThisSheen posted...

The issue is that if anybody but Carmella wins, it becomes "We had to add rules to a match that has no rules in order for you to win."

It's automatically tainted

And it looks ESPECIALLY bad when they could have added said rule right after the MitB where Maryse tried to get the briefcase for Miz, but they didn't.

And you know who will bring that up and have story for weeks/months/years to come? You know who will have a chip on their shoulder and a heel underdog story? You know who will have extra depth to their core character because of a complex situation with complex characterization that ended up with a complex decision (which, as I just read someone comment, "live by the Ellsworth, die by the Ellsworth"... she probably would've retained if Ellsworth didn't insult Bryan's newborn)?

Carmella's going to be hot from here out if we keep this level of Smackdown strength.

Honestly, if Carmella wins next week, then this angle will all be for nothing, IMO. I want Carmella to succeed from all this, but if she wins next week, then WWE can just wash its hands of the whole thing and nothing will really change. But the FACT that it's all we're talking about the past 48 hours regarding WWE, that Carmella and Becky were both pitch perfect tonight (Natalya was a great in her role but horribly annoying, Charlotte was Charlotte, and Tamina was Charlotte), and that there's so much rich story that can be mined from this for YEARS to come, IMO... I think it was perfect.

And I don't care that it's supposed to be "History in the Making." If a non-competitor in a men's MitB went up and unclipped the briefcase and gave it to someone else, I'd for damn sure want to see a do-over. I'm more than okay if Ellsworth just dumped Becky off the ladder, but the fact of the matter is that Carmella didn't climb the ladder and grab it for herself. It doesn't matter that it was a man handing a woman something; it was someone not in the match unclipping the briefcase for someone else. It's not in the rules, but it's completely against the spirit of the whole thing.

Just my take, but I find all this much more interesting and exciting that anything else going on.


And all of this, ALL OF THIS, and no Breezango tonight. Incredible!!!
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Meltzer thinks that the rematch was the plan all along and that it wasn't a reaction to backlash over having Ellsworth win it, so there's that I guess.
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I will say the problem I find is how much I don't want any of the remaining competitors to win it.

Charlotte definitely doesn't need it.
Becky is too babyface for me for a cash-in.
Natalya is so bleh.
Oh god Tamina please no.
And that leaves... Carmella.

To me, I'm just expecting a more ingenious way for Ellsworth to interfere while being banned from ringside. Like his entrance music hitting to everyone's confusion, or maybe the lights go out and when they come back on, everyone's handcuffed to the ring.

Like Ellsworth being a sneaky little shit and getting Carmella the win AGAIN would be amazing.
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TheRock1525 posted...

To me, I'm just expecting a more ingenious way for Ellsworth to interfere while being banned from ringside. Like his entrance music hitting to everyone's confusion, or maybe the lights go out and when they come back on, everyone's handcuffed to the ring.

Like Ellsworth being a sneaky little shit and getting Carmella the win AGAIN would be amazing.

I can agree with this.

And also, yes, Carmella is the one I most want to see with the case, but I would'nt mind seeing Becky or Nattie have it.
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Hypothetically what happens if the same thing happens again?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Hypothetically what happens if the same thing happens again?

Can't because Ellsworth is banned from ring side and Bryan already threatened to fire him once.
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Other non-competitors exist
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Jakyl25 posted...

Other non-competitors exist

And how many have a vested interest in seeing a particular woman succeed and be willing to anger an already fire-ready GM?

Daniel Bryan fired AJ Styles once, for God's sake! He's a wild man!
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Ric Flair wins it for Charlotte

"Fire me?? I'm already fired!"
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So they put on PPV something shit on purpose so that Daniel Bryan could come in and advertise a way to fix something that was shit on PPV.

Y u feed us shit on purpose :(
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Solioxrz362 posted...

Let's put it this way: would it be fine if Lita climbed up the ladder in a men's ladder match for Edge or the Hardy Boys to win it for them?

yes.
in fact that sounds pretty awesome and totally something she would do, to rousing support.


as for everything with Carmella... this is the most reaction she's gotten to anything by far. she was fucking dead for months. they threw Ellsworth with her to push the fans a bit, they pushed back by giving him reaction and her silence.

so they kicked both of their roles up a level with MITB and finally, finally got the two over as heels. it took a lot of effort but they successfully have made people care about one of the women in a very limited division through their work. this is not what WWE is known for.

and everything they're doing was 100% planned. this isn't off the cuff patchwork to a bad ending, it was a perfect ending and is paying off. if anything, that kind of attitude is their way of messing with smarks.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Ric Flair wins it for Charlotte

"Fire me?? I'm already fired!"

Lol @ Flair climbing a ladder at his age/standard inebriation levels.
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Alternate timeline

Ric grabs the case intending to give it to Charlotte, but Carmella seduces him for it before he can
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Wanglicious posted...

Solioxrz362 posted...

Let's put it this way: would it be fine if Lita climbed up the ladder in a men's ladder match for Edge or the Hardy Boys to win it for them?

yes.
in fact that sounds pretty awesome and totally something she would do, to rousing support.

respectfully disagree, i think it'd be lame. if she did some big interference and then the guy climbed up, that'd be cool, but if she dropped it down to them, then i'm not satisfied with that ending.

it's a great fake out by wwe to do this though. wish that the ppv would've had a satisfying ending so the people that paid for it would feel like they got some actual meaningful stuff but the angle is excellent nonetheless
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Next question: While he's a heel doing heel things, is Jinder going to win any matches clean? Every match he's won since his push started was either cause of a cheap shot (Mojo) or interference (Orton, Zayn, Styles, Harper)
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the only thing that would get a bigger pop than lita winning a ladder match for her team like that is her climbing it to stop Christian, punch him in the face off it, get it, and toss it to Jeff.

you'd have "GIRL POWER" headlines everywhere. the opposite of what you later complained about with the whole "oh it's a man!" bit. you'd never hear the end of it if she did that.
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When I realized DB was back on Talking Smack, I knew I had to watch, so I'm catching up now. I forgot how FUN the New Day can be, I enjoyed their segment immensely.
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Lita grabs the belt, is choosing between edge or Matt, then tosses it to Kane.
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