Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Dante/Shulk/Yuri/J& C/Sorey/Mewtwo vs. Id/Revan/Kuja/ Nova/Sephirot

(+) Yeah! (+)

So like, Dante's clone is being dominated by Mewtwo. Nova as a psychic can probably detect this?

Can Nova just snipe Mewtwo from a distance and let 10% increased Dante kill his own team.

Serious question here. Do the terrain and Nova's psychic abilities allow this.
---

Drakeryn posted...

Skyridge87 posted...

I think arguing Mewtwo shouldn't be Pokken Mewtwo because it can lose to Pikachu in gameplay is like saying Akuma shouldn't be from Street Fighter because he can lose to Dan in gameplay.

tbh I have trouble with Akuma respect because of this

there's such a wide disparity in his showings. one moment he's sinking an island with a single punch, next moment he's struggling against Dan. I don't feel it's fair to discount either of those but then it leaves me with a big ???

I mean, canonically (AKA not in gameplay) Akuma never struggles against Dan. In those cases you kinda just dismiss the gameplay and go with the story IMO - which kinda sucks because SF story is kind of vague (or at least was before SF5) but it's the best solution I feel.
---

Mewtwo and not!Dante are probably going to work together but alone from the rest of the team since Mewtwo's a prick. Also Shulk sees the future and shit and can see Mewtwo's death if that's the enemy plan.
---

Lopen posted...

So like, Dante's clone is being dominated by Mewtwo. Nova as a psychic can probably detect this?

Can Nova just snipe Mewtwo from a distance and let 10% increased Dante kill his own team.

Serious question here. Do the terrain and Nova's psychic abilities allow this.

Terrain does allow for snipes (the question is if Shulk can see it and block it).

And yes, Nova is a telepath so she can sense that kinda thing. The only question is if you feel there's a psychic link or just wacky ability magic at play. I...think I lean towards the latter? But that's just my interp. I'd have to go look at whatever the source material for Mewtwo's clonehax is.
---

Well I mean psychic powers would in theory be in Nova's wheelhouse so I doubt she'd mistake it for wacky magic
---

Wouldn't Nova only really sense the thoughts of cloned Dante, who is only listening to what Mewtwo says in Pokemon-ese?

Sounds like she'd only get gibberish to me.
---

I just feel like she'd sense the control being exerted or something. It feels like something someone who's sensitive to psychic energy would be able to just detect using general psychic mumbo jumbo.
---

Even if she knew, theoretically, that Beast Dante is subservient to Mewtwo, she wouldn't know he'd go insane upon his defeat.
---

That's definitely true, but I do think that shooting Mewtwo becomes not very farfetched there-- like he's doing SOMETHING there. It is SUSPICIOUS

Related when Sorey armatizes does it look like Sorey or the guy he's armatizing with.
---

Looks like Sorey. Just different hair. Sorey+Lailah he gets super long hair and it's blonde like hers, for instance.
---

So basically white hair is in
---

It's not just a gameplay issue, though. Am I supposed to assume that every enemy Akuma fights has more effective durability than an island? Even if you put a black box over the actual fights (because it's "just gameplay") he is obviously not pulverizing everything he touches with his first punch.

ANYWAY this is getting pretty far afield from the fact that

Dante duos

I have a lot of respect for base Dante. Now in this match we have Dante fused with Sorey, which gives him a sizable power boost, and also 110% clone Dante. Admittedly Shadow Mewtwo is a liability here, but his team should know the parameters of his ability and, in particular, the fact that Shulk needs to guard Mewtwo with his life.

Also this is just a really bad team to employ a sniper strategy against. Both Dantes are supreme dodgelords, Yuri is a tanky douchebag, Shulk has his precognition and Monado shield to guard himself and his allies. Also everyone is buffed.

So yeah the other team has a lot of legit fighters but I feel like buffed superdante and clone Dante (ft. special guests Yuri and Shulk) have the day here.
---

Also, Mewtwo also has psychic powers. Surely he'd have an idea someone's sniping. Let alone Shulk...having precognition.
---

Lopen posted...

So basically white hair is in

more or less because i think all of sorey's armatizations with his seraphim have some variant of yellow to blonde hair <_<
---

he kinda takes on some traits of whoever he's armatizing with, but yeah it's still sorey

like sorey + fire seraph:
https://68.media.tumblr.com/38ec22606a2ad1c31819667ee3cba0cf/tumblr_nlu0tgqwAZ1sjqb08o1_500.jpg

sorey + wind seraph:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-TtFYO6rKtg/maxresdefault.jpg
---

It feels like a bit of a stretch for Nova to know every detail of the ability at sniping distances, and then likewise manage to blindside a powerful psychic (Mewtwo) who's backed up by someone whose specialty is seeing the future with various other powers to change it (Shulk). Like even super early game Shulk can amp up the speed and reflexes of standard humans to this to prevent ambushes without even calling it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfdHEcywkJY

He also is possibly the best anti-Revan or psychic in general, because he later on gets Purge, which he developed specifically to counter enemies that could read his mind to react to how he was going to change the future. Purge is just a ranged light that damages enemies and dulls their senses to the point they can't use their telepathic powers, as well as removing and sealing any self-buffs for a while too.
---

Oh yeah that's absolutely right, Purge comes about when Shulk fights the Telethia who are kind of dicks.
---

Anyway going to tentatively assume sniping Mewtwo doesn't work. I think her not knowing details of the ability is irrelevant as it seems like something to try regardless, but Shulk is probably good enough anti-sniper tech Then you're left with on the relevant fighters side

Dante/Shulk/Yuri/Sorete vs. Id/Revan/Kuja/Sephiroth

Seph and Kuja's only useful buffs are Wall IIRC, so that isn't really gonna change much-- if anything Sorey's buffs will be better, and a lot more fire power on Dante's side. Thinking Seph probably doesn't get Safer/Bizarro stuff since those seem pretty evil to me so no ALMIGHTY STIGMA. Was thinking Kuja would be difficult to deal with but Yuri flies so probably not too bad.

Tentative vote for Dante DUOS right now
---

I think grammatically it's DANTES Duo
---

It's not just a gameplay issue, though. Am I supposed to assume that every enemy Akuma fights has more effective durability than an island? Even if you put a black box over the actual fights (because it's "just gameplay") he is obviously not pulverizing everything he touches with his first punch.

Well, in canon Akuma just doesn't fight dudes he thinks aren't a good brawl. Which is Gen (old master dude who is supremely skilled, like he's way above Chun-Li and Ryu for instance), Oro (stronger-than-Akuma dude), Bison (way up there and borderline 5/week), and Gill (mini god-dude who resurrected himself after being killed). I think even Ryu hasn't fought him for real yet. The fights just never happened. Akuma's story mode in SF5 might shed some light on this matter though, he fights some dudes there. I'll go looking.
---

Dante duos

Yeesh sanctuary totally neuters team Id.
---

If I remember, Akuma's story in SF5 is him finally killing Gen then having a non-fight with Ryu. Pretty sure those are the only two scenes.

Um

wut
---

FFDragon posted...

wut

You saw nothing. Everything is normal. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

...

...

...

...Fnord. <_< >_>
---

KJH posted...

It feels like a bit of a stretch for Nova to know every detail of the ability at sniping distances, and then likewise manage to blindside a powerful psychic (Mewtwo) who's backed up by someone whose specialty is seeing the future with various other powers to change it (Shulk). Like even super early game Shulk can amp up the speed and reflexes of standard humans to this to prevent ambushes without even calling it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfdHEcywkJY

He also is possibly the best anti-Revan or psychic in general, because he later on gets Purge, which he developed specifically to counter enemies that could read his mind to react to how he was going to change the future. Purge is just a ranged light that damages enemies and dulls their senses to the point they can't use their telepathic powers, as well as removing and sealing any self-buffs for a while too.

Good thing Revan has force Concealment.

Force Concealment: Revan had great knowledge over this ability, and taught his elite Sith Assassins how to use and master it to a grand scale. "Revan had many of them trained to "hide their minds," as it were. Again, once these techniques were learned, the percentage of living Jedi began to decrease accordingly." This ability of hiding your mind is also a demonstration of Force Resistance, since they did it from other Jedi Knights. Darth Revan also taught the Sith Assassins to hide their entire presences in the Force from the Jedi Order, forever striking from the shadows without being seen. They were able to eliminate hundreds of Jedi during the Jedi Civil Wars and First Jedi Purge.

Revan is able to hide the minds from other precogs and sensers.
---

Literally employs a hard counter against the enemy team. People say two mercs can solo 5 mercs hard countering them. Lmfao.
---

Literally Kuja can fly and never be killed in this match up. And everyone is saying two dantes can solo a team they can never ever get to a merc in the match in.


Literally just fly around pew pewing.
---

You do know the dantes can teleport right

And they also have tons of guns?
---

Kuja is a bog standard caster without his trance and I am completely convinced that he's not gonna get there without being evil, since his whole character motivation that allows him to trance so hard stems from that.
---

And that Neo Amon flies. And Mewtwo.

Also why do you keep bringing up a Revan that isn't how he is in KOTOR, along with powers he doesn't have in his writeup? Nevermind the argument against Monado Purge doesn't make sense in the first place.
---

So the enemy team of melee fighters is going to traverse miles between the strongholds while a psionic telepathic cloaked sniper is unloading on them, while a tranced Kuja is tossing out the most powerful spells imagined, while sephiroth is unloading spell after spell, while ID is unloading Big Bangs upon the terrain, while Revan is force concealing their minds, masterminding the defense, and pinpointing their locations with Force Sense.

And not only is the other team going to be able to traverse this shit no problem and be able to find cloaked units on Revan and Nova, but also be at the strength necessary to fight Id, Sephiroth, Revan, Nova, and Kuja in pitched battle and win. If they can even get inside the stronghold which we surely aren't just opening the doors for them for while we have the range advantage.

If mewtwo dies in ANY scenario while coming across, beast dante turns on his own team.

If shulk and Mewtwo do not make it both across, the enemy cannot see stealthed nova or Revan.

If mewtwo dies coming across, Kuja can just fly up above out of range with or without sephiroth and just bomb the terrain from a ridiculous height.


But, a bunch of melee fighters is gonna win on a large map with a base stronghold with gates against range and flying units with enough strength to beat a very strong capable fighting unjt who apparently all ranged units are gonna just decide to melee against???
---

Eddv posted...

Kuja is a bog standard caster without his trance and I am completely convinced that he's not gonna get there without being evil, since his whole character motivation that allows him to trance so hard stems from that.

He starts in trance. And villany has nothijg to do with trance. A ton of characters can trance without evil reasoning.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

You do know the dantes can teleport right

And they also have tons of guns?

Dante xan teleport 3 miles above the terrain? News to me!
---

Amon's flown into the air to take out an airship before, and he did it with ease.

You know what, fun fact, Charlotte's got a spell called Clear Skies that creates a zone around her that no projectiles can pass through, either into or out of. Trying to outmage a team with her on it is silly, and expecting theatrical braggarts like Kuja and Sephiroth to just fly into the air (3 miles? seriously?) and spam magic is goofy.
---

Corrik posted...

Eddv posted...

Kuja is a bog standard caster without his trance and I am completely convinced that he's not gonna get there without being evil, since his whole character motivation that allows him to trance so hard stems from that.

He starts in trance. And villany has nothijg to do with trance. A ton of characters can trance without evil reasoning.

No other character in FFIX can trance unlimited first of all.

Second it explicitly says that abilities that are related to alignment are off the table, and I see his trance as being inherently related to his alignmnt.
---

Eddv posted...

Corrik posted...

Eddv posted...

Kuja is a bog standard caster without his trance and I am completely convinced that he's not gonna get there without being evil, since his whole character motivation that allows him to trance so hard stems from that.

He starts in trance. And villany has nothijg to do with trance. A ton of characters can trance without evil reasoning.

No other character in FFIX can trance unlimited first of all.

Second it explicitly says that abilities that are related to alignment are off the table, and I see his trance as being inherently related to his alignmnt.

Eddv posted...

Corrik posted...

Eddv posted...

Kuja is a bog standard caster without his trance and I am completely convinced that he's not gonna get there without being evil, since his whole character motivation that allows him to trance so hard stems from that.

He starts in trance. And villany has nothijg to do with trance. A ton of characters can trance without evil reasoning.

No other character in FFIX can trance unlimited first of all.

Second it explicitly says that abilities that are related to alignment are off the table, and I see his trance as being inherently related to his alignmnt.

His Trance is reflective of his magic skill.
---

team lots of strong dudes and mewtwo

Bump

@Colegreen_c12
@ImTheMacheteGuy
@Se7enthrust
@ExThaNemesis
@scarletspeed7
@Alany
@IfGodCouldDie
@Dragon66116
@Snake5555555555
@ScareChan

Any of you interested in giving your take or these merc fight contests?

if not lmk and i wont tag you anymore.
---

Double dantes SOLO (Duo)

So yeah, I feel like the main problem is that even if Mewtwo gets owned by Kuja, Dante is kinda hard to shake off. If there was a way to guarantee Clone Dante goes ham on his own team I think Corrik's team wins, but I'm not seeing it. Should've brought in Lady and had her Scorp pull Mewtwo or something.
---

Also please don't ping dudes en masse to come vote corrik. We have rules about not harassing people over voting (or not yet doing so in this case)
---

I do like how I owned 2/5th of the other team and almost bought the rest of it and I voted against it.
---

Corrik posted...

@IfGodCouldDie

I still don't know what the metrics to judge these things are.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Also please don't ping dudes en masse to come vote corrik. We have rules about not harassing people over voting (or not yet doing so in this case)

You told me literally last match I was allowed to ping to the match when asked. And, it literally says if not interested let me know and I never would again.
---

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Corrik posted...

IfGodCouldDie

I still don't know what the metrics to judge these things are.

It is just who you feel would win the fight. Look at the terrain and the fighters aligned with abilities and capabilities and vote how you think it goes. Explaining why.
---

I'm not interested, sorry.
---

Snake5555555555 posted...

I'm not interested, sorry.

No problem, buddy.
---

Corrik posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Also please don't ping dudes en masse to come vote corrik. We have rules about not harassing people over voting (or not yet doing so in this case)

You told me literally last match I was allowed to ping to the match when asked. And, it literally says if not interested let me know and I never would again.

It's one thing to ping someone to clear things up on some details or whatever. Vote soliciting is an entirely different matter. Don't get cheeky on us here.
---

Mewtwo Crew

If Mewtwo could be taken out while the teams are separate, I could see the 110% Dante tearing up his own team. But I'm not sure that Nova would necessarily be able to glean how the ability works from her mind reading and be able to take out Mewtwo past Shulk's protection. Mewtwo's team knows exactly how the ability works pre-battle and can plan for protecting Mewtwo accordingly. Without that and Id/Kuja being nerfed some, I don't see them handling the false Dantes.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Corrik posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Also please don't ping dudes en masse to come vote corrik. We have rules about not harassing people over voting (or not yet doing so in this case)

You told me literally last match I was allowed to ping to the match when asked. And, it literally says if not interested let me know and I never would again.

It's one thing to ping someone to clear things up on some details or whatever. Vote soliciting is an entirely different matter. Don't get cheeky on us here.

I word for word said. Can I ping someone to a match to let them know it is going on or is that considered rallying? Youbsaid as long as I do not ask them to vote for me it is not rallying.
---