Current Events > Google underpays women even below the 'wage gap'

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/07/google-pay-disparities-women-labor-department-lawsuit
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inb4wagegapisamyth

Allegations of possible employment violations


seems legit
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2015? What about 2016...?
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under the future Obama left behind for us, everybody makes the same wage

8 bucks a hour, 32 hours a week
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Roxborough4Ever posted...

under the future Obama left behind for us, everybody makes the same wage

8 bucks a hour, 32 hours a week

No. It's a hardcap of 29 hours, to evade ACA-mandated benefits.

This isn't useful and likely false since it's so intentionally useless.
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Asherlee10 posted...

I would want to see more context between the pay of employees. Are they comparing Jane to Tom when Tom has more experience and delivers more?

Yeah I'd like to see this too, as it seems this is always the case when I see these wage gaps. Just flat "He makes 80k a year, she makes 60k -> wage gap -> problem"

And then inevitably it's revealed the males work more hours, are more experienced, actually negotiated for better pay, etc. Extremely irritating to see all of these variables discarded all the time; it masks any actual sexism happening.

The article says it's the DoL doing these investigations so maybe they're accounting for all this stuff? Who knows. I don't even remember which study/report/whatever was that originally created the 77% number or whatever percent. Coulda been the DoL for all I know.
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DoL on another witchhunt it seems.
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Yeah, some context would definitely help out here. I wouldn't really consider it a wage gap just because a man makes more than a woman or vice versa.
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Google supports equality my ass.

"Don't be evil"
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Of all the companies that might actually discriminate based on sex, Google isn't one of them.
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Asherlee10 posted...

@CableZL brings up a good example about men typically asking more than women do.

And are more likely to work longer hours, and vastly more likely to not disappear for a few weeks after a few months of "light duty".

gafemaqs posted...

inb4wagegapisamyth

The wage gap is a myth.
It is a crime to pay women less than men for being a woman, which is why if this turns out to be true Google is going to have to pay out the ass.
If it does turn out to be true, it doesn't confirm the existence of the wage gap, it confirms that the systems in place to catch and punish for pay discrimination work.
If women were some magic ticket to be able to pay employees less then businesses would exclusively hire women wherever possible.

Plus this is all a huge "if" at the moment. I'd be fairly surprised if Google of all companies did something like this, so I'll wait for the results of an investigation or whatever.
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Gamer99z posted...

It is a crime to pay women less than men for being a woman, which is why if this turns out to be true Google is going to have to pay out the ass.

It has, in fact, been a federal crime since the early 1960s.
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s0nicfan posted...

Of all the companies that might actually discriminate based on sex, Google isn't one of them.

Gamer99z posted...

I'd be fairly surprised if Google of all companies did something like this

lmao you guys really think Google is the "knight in shining armor" saving us from corporate greed
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Butterfiles posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Of all the companies that might actually discriminate based on sex, Google isn't one of them.

Gamer99z posted...

I'd be fairly surprised if Google of all companies did something like this

lmao you guys really think Google is the "knight in shining armor" saving us from corporate greed

Of course not, but Google is hyper sensitive about federal laws as a big business.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Roxborough4Ever posted...

under the future Obama left behind for us, everybody makes the same wage

8 bucks a hour, 32 hours a week

No. It's a hardcap of 29 hours, to evade ACA-mandated benefits.

my old job capped me at 25 hours just in case someone accidentally stuck around for 5 hours lol.
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fenderbender321 posted...

In order to understand the situation more clearly, they will need to uncover the amount of money that women were asking for on their resume or application in comparison to men. They will also need to look at every employee's experience and education, actual hours worked, actual work performed, etc.

I really don't see them being able to do a wide-scale investigation that large. Hopefully they don't just look at some basic numbers and draw a conclusion.

Have you met the DoL before? They're notorious for basing these kind of investigations on loosely knitted numbers.
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Butterfiles posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Of all the companies that might actually discriminate based on sex, Google isn't one of them.

Gamer99z posted...

I'd be fairly surprised if Google of all companies did something like this

lmao you guys really think Google is the "knight in shining armor" saving us from corporate greed

I didn't say it because I think they're good guy Google, I'd be surprised because I figure Google of all companies wouldn't be that stupid. It's a crime, PR disaster, and leaves a paper trail of evidence. I'd be surprised if any high tier company like Google did something like that because I assume they're smarter than that.
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I am really enjoying toxic social justice cannibalizing megacorps that push for or at least have a voice of support to stupid social justice programs.

First youtube suffered a massive revenue loss because some dude at the WSJ sat there all day looking for niche videos he could call racist that had ads from coke.
Now this.

Looks like being an ally to them doesn't make you immune from the insane and often fabricated scrutiny.
Maybe companies will learn to not cave to the ridiculous demands very soon.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

I am really enjoying toxic social justice cannibalizing megacorps that push for or at least have a voice of support to stupid social justice programs.

First youtube suffered a massive revenue loss because some dude at the WSJ sat there all day looking for niche videos he could call racist that had ads from coke.
Now this.

Looks like being an ally to them doesn't make you immune from the insane and often fabricated scrutiny.
Maybe companies will learn to not cave to the ridiculous demands very soon.

SJWs are pretty religious. Simply siding with them isn't enough, you have to be very pious.
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This is something that is easily cleared up tho. Google can release the numbers if they are innocent, and hide them and fight it if they are not. The fact that it wasn't immediately resolved should tell us there might be something more at play.
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lilORANG posted...

This is something that is easily cleared up tho. Google can release the numbers if they are innocent, and hide them and fight it if they are not. The fact that it wasn't immediately resolved should tell us there might be something more at play.

My guess is they want to check the numbers first before they release it. Just in case
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The other thing is that exact pay values are competitive information. If every company knows exactly what google pays, it will be much harder for them to continue to draw the best and the brightest. This is a "damn if you do, damn if you don't" situation, because if they release everything it hurts their bottom line, but if they don't everyone presumes guilt.

For what it's worth, I don't agree with "well they should release everything unless they're hiding something" as an argument because that's the exact same argument being used to strip privacy out of the Internet: "what, do you have something to hide? Just let us take all your info."
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s0nicfan posted...

The other thing is that exact pay values are competitive information. If every company knows exactly what google pays, it will be much harder for them to continue to draw the best and the brightest. This is a "damn if you do, damn if you don't" situation, because if they release everything it hurts their bottom line, but if they don't everyone presumes guilt.

For what it's worth, I don't agree with "well they should release everything unless they're hiding something" as an argument because that's the exact same argument being used to strip privacy out of the Internet: "what, do you have something to hide? Just let us take all your info."

funny how SJW could literally be paid by the competition to take down companies

imagine if the WSJ got paid by Microsoft to take down google and hurt its youtube brand

yeah sjwism!
yeah
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fenderbender321 posted...

lilORANG posted...

Google can release the numbers

What numbers, specifically? It sounds like they're going to have to do A LOT of digging. They can't just release a chart that shows how much women make vs men. There are hundreds of more variables involved.

It's not that difficult, if that chart has the positions and qualifications of the employee too. If 2 lead programmers with the same experience are making substantially different amounts, that's a bit more suspicious than a programmer making more than the office barista (because you know every google office has a coffee shop)
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fenderbender321 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

Allegations of possible employment violations


seems legit

Plus they don't even tell us what data they've uncovered. And yet, an article is written about it.

gotta get that click bait quota in for the day
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lilORANG posted...

It's not that difficult, if that chart has the positions and qualifications of the employee too.

Needs to go deeper than that:
Seniority
Attendance
Average hours per week

If 2 lead programmers with the same experience are making substantially different amounts, that's a bit more suspicious than a programmer making more than the office barista

If programmer A has been with the company ten years, almost never misses work, and puts in 60 hours while coming in on weekends as needed; while programmer B has also been with the company ten years, but takes random days off (including a month or two leave, on multiple occasions), and puts in almost exactly 40 hours (sometimes a little less), while never showing up during a weekend disaster; then programmer A better damn well be paid more.

Questionmarktarius posted...

lilORANG posted...

It's not that difficult, if that chart has the positions and qualifications of the employee too.

Needs to go deeper than that:
Seniority
Attendance
Average hours per week

If 2 lead programmers with the same experience are making substantially different amounts, that's a bit more suspicious than a programmer making more than the office barista

If programmer A has been with the company ten years, almost never misses work, and puts in 60 hours while coming in on weekends as needed; while programmer B has also been with the company ten years, but takes random days off (including a month or two leave, on multiple occasions), and puts in almost exactly 40 hours (sometimes a little less), while never showing up during a weekend disaster; then programmer A better damn well be paid more.

I understand that. Do you think a giant company like Google doesn't have this relevant info on hand? They probably have everything you mentioned in a spreadsheet. Release it and be done with it.

If this gets taken to court, it all comes out anyways. Might as well save the time and money now.
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lilORANG posted...

I understand that. Do you think a giant company like Google doesn't have this relevant info on hand? They probably have everything you mentioned in a spreadsheet. Release it and be done with it.

I can almost assure you they don't. Nobody tracks everything to that level in one place if they track it at all.
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lilORANG posted...

I understand that. Do you think a giant company like Google doesn't have this relevant info on hand? They probably have everything you mentioned in a spreadsheet. Release it and be done with it.

The reluctance to go all "here, assholes!" suggests there may well be actual shenanigans going on, or Google is just being the assholes here.

s0nicfan posted...

lilORANG posted...

I understand that. Do you think a giant company like Google doesn't have this relevant info on hand? They probably have everything you mentioned in a spreadsheet. Release it and be done with it.

I can almost assure you they don't. Nobody tracks everything to that level in one place if they track it at all.

major corporations definitely do nowadays, in the event they get sued for employment discrimination. Every pay discrepancy has to be justified somehow. Most commonly that's going to be job title, and within that you have obvious things that might be on a schedule, like seniority and output and number of degrees or whatever.

If you start seeing substantial differences in pay among people with those similar factors, it's a nice red flag.
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Dathrowed1 posted...

SJWs are pretty religious. Simply siding with them isn't enough, you have to be very pious.

Yeah, it's dangerous though. I'm reminded of the increasingly popular videos talking about white privilege and how you're causing systematic racism to exist if you don't talk about your white privilege. The ones that ominously refer to "correcting the issue" without explaining what that means. Right now they just posture it as being a situation of white people needing to talk about it (or else), but I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later they push some insane concept like a white tax.
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lilORANG posted...

s0nicfan posted...

lilORANG posted...

I understand that. Do you think a giant company like Google doesn't have this relevant info on hand? They probably have everything you mentioned in a spreadsheet. Release it and be done with it.

I can almost assure you they don't. Nobody tracks everything to that level in one place if they track it at all.

major corporations definitely do nowadays, in the event they get sued for employment discrimination. Every pay discrepancy has to be justified somehow. Most commonly that's going to be job title, and within that you have obvious things that might be on a schedule, like seniority and output and number of degrees or whatever.

If you start seeing substantial differences in pay among people with those similar factors, it's a nice red flag.

On pay, sure, but for things like days off they most likely only have the employee's current vacation balance, and as most companies cap the amount you can bank, that only tells a partial story. Overtime would have to be dredged up from pay stubs and there's likely no tracking of "casual overtime" where employees stay late, unless they collect all the badge logs from security, which could take weeks. I doubt there's also tracking of "employee A came in during an emergency and employee B didn't".
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Logos posted...

Dathrowed1 posted...

SJWs are pretty religious. Simply siding with them isn't enough, you have to be very pious.

Yeah, it's dangerous though. I'm reminded of the increasingly popular videos talking about white privilege and how you're causing systematic racism to exist if you don't talk about your white privilege. The ones that ominously refer to "correcting the issue" without explaining what that means. Right now they just posture it as being a situation of white people needing to talk about it (or else), but I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later they push some insane concept like a white tax.

Oh, they have an app for that:
http://www.alternet.org/media/new-app-splits-meal-bills-so-white-males-pay-extra-their-privilege
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Logos posted...

a white tax

If Elizabeth Warren can evade it...

s0nicfan posted...

Oh, they have an app for that:
http://www.alternet.org/media/new-app-splits-meal-bills-so-white-males-pay-extra-their-privilege

Fuck. The rhetoric used to push concepts like white privilege will eventually lead to more of this if it isn't shut down. You'll see.
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s0nicfan posted...

Oh, they have an app for that:
http://www.alternet.org/media/new-app-splits-meal-bills-so-white-males-pay-extra-their-privilege

Where in the hell are these people eating that costs $349 for five people?

Questionmarktarius posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Oh, they have an app for that:
http://www.alternet.org/media/new-app-splits-meal-bills-so-white-males-pay-extra-their-privilege

Where in the hell are these people eating that costs $349 for five people?

The Bay Area, most likely.
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