Board 8 > Doc Ranks the Animated Disney Canon Pt 2: I Want Much More Than Those 500 Posts!

(+) Yeah! (+)

PrinceKaro posted...
The first full length animated movie ever made, and still one of the best.

No.

The songs are memorable,

No.

the animation is top notch,

For its time, sure. Now, no.

and it tells a very good story.

Mmmm... no.

Overall: no.

Holy crap you two. >_>

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

Gen, remember....a certain Club member narrates a certain film near the beginning.

O_O

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Little town...
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Pokewars posted...

Gen, remember....a certain Club member narrates a certain film near the beginning.

O_O

Ohhhhh God, you're right. Knowing Doc it's probably The Jungle Book.

But my last two guesses have been correct, so maybe if I guess Hercules it'll keep the ball rolling.

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

May I present the top 15!

Pinocchio
Peter Pan
Sleeping Beauty
The Jungle Book
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
The Little Mermaid
Beauty and the Beast
Aladdin
The Lion King
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
Hercules
Mulan
Tarzan
Bolt
Tangled

Who will be the five unfortunate enough to miss out on the top 10?

Oh, I never did do my top ten guesses

10. Tarzan
9. Sleeping Beauty
8. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
7. Mulan
6. Tangled
5. The Little Mermaid
4. The Lion King
3. Peter Pan
2. Aladdin
1. Beauty and the Beast

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

Ohhh, it could actually be Winnie the Pooh or The Jungle Book. I'm rooting for one of those.

As for what I want to miss the Top 10:

Peter Pan
The Jungle Book
Winnie the Pooh
Mulan
Tarzan

These are all good movies (well, I don't like Peter Pan, but I can't deny it's GOOD), but they don't belong in a Top 10. The rest I would have no qualms whatsoever with.

From: Vengeful_KBM | #306

Ohhh, it could actually be Winnie the Pooh or The Jungle Book. I'm rooting for one of those.

Hi, I'm your complete opposite :P

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Little town...
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Vengeful_KBM posted...

As for what I want to miss the Top 10:

Peter Pan
Tarzan

Can tell you right now you're going to be disappointed.

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

Aaaaand just thought of something.

Vengeful_KBM posted...

Beauty and the Beast? *gets shot*

(Honestly though, better that than Hercules or Hunchback, which are both easily in my Top 10.)

Why the hell are we even talking about these three when Pinocchio has yet to show up???

Changing my guess from Hercules to Pinocchio.

Eta: Jiminy narrates quite a bit of it

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

GenesisSaga posted...

Why the hell are we even talking about these three when Pinocchio has yet to show up???

...Because Pinocchio is Top 3 material, if not Top 1?

No. No it is not.

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

Pokewars posted...

From: DoctorBIind | #289

Next Up: This film contains narration.

I swear to f***ing God, if a certain film is next I am permanently switching your tag to Archimedes!

And lol, I wasn't even referring to Beauty and the Beast!

I think I know what ya mean and I agree. Better not f***ing be Jungle Book!

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

Or Pooh! Better not be Pooh either!

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

Oh. Snow White's here. I agree with the write-ups. Although I wouldn't put it quite that high.

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Proud ValHellen x Maha_Bufudyne shipper.

And this is why Stifled won the....you know, that long name contest. Users, Disney, Save my, etc. :P

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Little town...
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=) woo!

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

Next year, I shall take Stifled down.

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

I disagree with the high ranking of course, but I do appreciate Snow White for basically giving us Disney. It's true that without it Disney would not even exist, at least in the form it does today. That being said, the story is just a bit too simple and the characters not interesting enough for me to rank it very highly myself.

Snow White herself... eh. She's not completely devoid of personality, but one thing that irked me (and I mentioned this during my last watch of it way back when) was the house cleaning scene. Snow White basically dances around with a broom singing and the animals of the forest clean the house from top to bottom. She's never really shown cleaning anything at all, instead relying on the animal friends to do all the work! That's never set well with me and really stands out as a moment of the film that is off-putting to me. The male lead is probably the worst ever, so that's a massive blow to the film too.

The Queen is a respectable villain but is often a bit overrated for her own good. AFI ranked her as #10 all time and the best of Disney, and I'm sure many other lists have done this too because of the nostalgia. While the character holds up fairly well today, my one complaint will always be that she's a bit too anxious to get Snow White to eat the apple. This demeans both characters because only a complete idiot would have eaten that apple after all that pandering. Her death is somewhat lame and makes her look sort of weak too, at least for me. I won't go on about it too much, as I try to refrain from overstating my opinions on the villains in this topic, so yeah.

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Still smilin'
:>

Gen: Nevaaaaaaaah!

Charon: I agree about Snow White being dumb as paint for eating that apple. Kinda appropriate actually. Disney animation began with a dummy eating a poisonous apple and the Disney Renaissance began with a dummy giving away her voice.

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

From: StifledSilence | #319

and the Disney Renaissance began with a dummy giving away her voice.

>:|

Aaaaand now I'm retconning your Save My Disney Participants victory and giving it to.......Xuxon :P

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Little town...
http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae221/GenesisSaga/3rdPrizeBelle.jpg

Well, she was listening to Poor Unfortunate Souls and still continued with the deal.

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My Little Phineas and Ferb: Summer is Magic!
Aww, I lost to SuperNiceDog, Winner of the Rivalry Rumble Guru Contest

Pokewars posted...

From: StifledSilence | #319

and the Disney Renaissance began with a dummy giving away her voice.

>:|

Aaaaand now I'm retconning your Save My Disney Participants victory and giving it to.......Xuxon :P

We're not exact opposites.

I actually appreciate how the KH games give us more time and development to some characters (esp. Maleficent).

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Proud ValHellen x Maha_Bufudyne shipper.

lol I like Ariel and all but come on. She literally sat there and watched/listened to obviously evil octopus woman sing about how she screws people over and still took her deal.

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

Raka_Putra posted...

I actually appreciate how the KH games give us more time and development to some characters (esp. Maleficent).

Yeah me too. I loved how involved in Kingdom Hearts 2 she was.

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

From: StifledSilence | #324

lol I like Ariel and all but come on. She literally sat there and watched/listened to obviously evil octopus woman sing about how she screws people over and still took her deal.

It was a really cool song. She was probably too busy enjoying the vocals! ;P

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Little town...
http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae221/GenesisSaga/3rdPrizeBelle.jpg

^true

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Proud ValHellen x Maha_Bufudyne shipper.

what ever ariel es dum

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

what ever Ariel makes deals with teh sea witch and doesn't afraid of anything

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Little town...
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Up

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The Gamer In Me
His dark secret is he's really Spark Brushel in disguise. If people knew, he'd be ruined. - Spiral on the black psyche locks

Ok I must confess...I locked Doc in my attic until he agreed to raise Robin Hood to #1. This could take awhile!

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

Sorry to disappear like that; I just got back from a mini-vacation. Updates will resume tomorrow. Hopefully there won't be any more interruptions before the list is complete.

From: StifledSilence | #331

Ok I must confess...I locked Doc in my attic until he agreed to raise Robin Hood to #1. This could take awhile!

Just use Sir Hiss to mesmerize him.

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Little town...
http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae221/GenesisSaga/3rdPrizeBelle.jpg

=( he called him a silly serpent

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

Trussssst in meeeee

Buster? Creepy?! Loooong onnnne??!!

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

You shouldn't have changed your guess, Gen!

#15 – Hercules (1997)

Best Character: Hades
Worst Characters: The Three Fates

Of all the films released during the Disney Renaissance, Hercules is probably the most light-hearted. It has its dramatic moments, but Hercules is definitely more of a comedy than it is a drama. It’s just a lot of fun. Complete with a number of great songs and a couple of fantastic characters, Hercules is among the funniest of the Disney films. It’s thus kind of strange how Hercules has never received a sequel given its success and how much Disney loves making sequels (I’m not counting Hercules: Zero to Hero).

The characters are what really make this film stand out. Admittedly Hercules is a little bland, but Hades and Megara are phenomenal. As much as I love Hades, I wish he were darker. More evil. As it is we can’t really take him seriously. He has a great, villainous plot to take over Olympus, but he never seems like a threat. A lot of that has to do with how unbeatable Hercules is made out to seem, but some of the blame has to fall on Hades as well. He’s just too passive at times, sending his minions to do all the villainous jobs for him. He’s also a little bit too funny. Whereas I think he’s a hilarious character, that same humor undercuts his more villainous side. Apparently the original version of Hades was going to be much darker and serious, but James Woods brought such a uniquely great performance that they rewrote the character. Despite wishing that Hades were darker, I’m very glad they rewrote the character to accommodate Woods. Hades became one of Disney’s most unique and fun villains, and given the choice I’d always choose this version of Hades over a potentially darker and serious one. Megara is the other standout for me, and I love how independent she is. I wish she were more marketable. Although not a member of the princess line, she’s a good role model for young girls. She’s smart, witty, strong and independent. Plus she has an incredible voice. Susan Egan gives us a powerful performance with “I Won’t Say I’m in Love” that cements her status as one of the best Disney female voices ever.

As for the side characters, Hercules contains a great one in Philoctetes and a decent sidekick in Pegasus. I don’t know what it is about him, but Phil is my third favorite character in the film. I think it’s because Phil reminds me so much of my high school track coach who I held in a very high regard. He has his gross moments, but ultimately Phil is just a genuinely nice guy. I can’t mention Philoctetes without mentioning one of the most heartwarming scenes in the entire canon. You guessed it. I’m talking about the scene at the very end of the movie. The one where Zeus rearranges the stars to form a constellation of Hercules and the people back on Earth notice, nudging each other and saying, “That’s Phil’s boy.” It seriously gets me every time! Films outside Disney included, it’s one the few scenes that can make me cry that aren’t actually sad. It’s a happy cry. A warm cry. Off the top of my head only the Scrubs ending reel and the moment in Toy Story 3 where Andy gives his toys away to Bonnie really fit within this category. That’s a very select club to be apart of, and I love Hercules for joining it.

It’s difficult naming the worst character for this film. The Three Fates receive the honor simply because they’re disgusting. They can see into the future but decide not to tell Hades that he’s going to lose? Come on. Surely they could have seen Pain and Panic screwing up and told Hades his plot was futile. I guess that would have made for a boring movie though. Pain and Panic are the next closest this film gets to having bad characters, as much of their content comes from dated pop culture references and attempts at humor. Some of their attempts stick, but they can be kind of annoying at times as comic relief. These character aside the rest of the cast is very strong, a signal that the movie was definitely released during the Disney Renaissance. Another signal? It has a great soundtrack.

For the most part the soundtrack is one of Disney’s strongest. Not my favorite, but I can recognize how someone might really appreciate it. For me, there are only a couple of standouts. “I Won’t Say I’m in Love” is one of my favorite Disney songs of all time, likely placing around #6 or #7 on my all time list. “I Can Go the Distance” is naturally the other favorite, but it has since fallen in my rankings. The gap in between its sections is a little long, but the reprise is extraordinary. There’s not a more inspiring song within the canon than “I Can Go the Distance.” As far as the rest of the soundtrack goes, I’m not particularly attached to any of them. The Muses have great voices, but I’ve never been a fan of their songs. The opening sequence is relatively weak compared to some of the other Disney films, and I think a lot of it has to do with the opening song.

This films in this group are so strong I really have to nitpick to justify some of their placements. Let’s start with Hercules himself. He’s a good guy. His personality is fine – a little boring, but fine. There’s nothing about him personally that really rubs me the wrong way. It’s just, he too strong. As I said previously, it’s never in doubt that he will inevitably save the day. His “weakness” isn’t really a weakness, and he never really has to overcome anything too daunting. Sure, he’s not a good. But he still has god-like powers! He reminds me too much of Superman, whom I never really liked. Sorry Herc, you’re a boring lead. Another small problem I have with the film is that it’s filled with a little bit too much comedy and not enough serious moments. Every time Hercules has the potential to share a touching moment with his father Zeus acts over the top and ruins it. Even during the really cool fight scene against the hydra it gets silly at the end. Right when Hercules smashes the cliff and the hydra looks up there’s an unnecessary silly sound effect complete with a silly reaction from the hydra. I’m not trying to say I don’t like humor in my films. I do. It’s just this one had a couple of instances where they could have toned down the humor in favor of some dramatic flavor.

Hercules has few faults. It really does a lot of things well. Like all of the remaining films unranked, I could easily see Hercules sneaking into the top five or so on someone’s list. The plot is fun if a little contrived, it has a good cast of main and supporting characters, and it’s got a great soundtrack. Explained above however, there are just a few nitpicks I have with the film that keep it from going the distance. And that’s the gospel truth.

Next Up: Another film sharing the title of its main character goes down.

DoctorBIind posted...

You shouldn't have changed your guess, Gen!

Damn, and I was on a roll too! Actually I'm just glad it wasn't The Jungle Book. That would've been sad.

Gonna go with Bolt next. It really is either his or Pinocchio's time...

Yeah I would have s*** bricks if The Jungle Book or Pooh showed up lol

James Woods is fantastic and you're absolutely right with Hades and Meg being among the best of the characters. I'd say Phil probably rounds out the top three. The Phil's boy thing gets me too.

Rip Torn in anything is also welcomed.

I'll guess the next one is Bolt.

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

<___<.

I don't agree, I thought the humor was fine, the movie had many dramatic and sad moments anyway. Hades was excellent, the humor characterizes him very well among the other Disney villains. It's a bit like Jafar, but with an even better humorous side supported by the animation.

[*insert biased comment about Meg*] I'm almost glad that she isn't part of the Disney princesses, sometimes they seem to be more about a fashion trend than the characters and keeping Megara out of it was just the coherent thing to do IMO. I don't think it has anything to do with her being marketable, I'm sure that she is at least as marketable as Pocahontas.

As for the Soundtrack, it is easily my favorite. I can't think off the top of my head of a soundtrack that I like more on the whole. "The Gospel Truth" was, in fact, an excellent and light-hearted way to open the movie, full of soul and effective, I loved it.

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SuperNiceDog won the Guru contest super nicely!

Hercules

Doc's Ranking: 15/51
Karo's Ranking: 27/49

Like most of the movies in this tier, Hercules has both many good things and many bad things about it. Lets get the bad stuff out of the way first. First off, we get sidetracked on Herc's overly long backstory (that is startlingly similar to Superman's, btw), which has little relevance to the primary plot of the movie (the love between Herc and Meg). Imagine if 'Aladdin' started out with a bunch of fluff that detailed how his parents (presumably) died and how he became a street rat. *shudder*
All we need to know about Herc's past could have been easily summed up at the end of the Muses' 'The Gospel Truth' song.
The introduction of Megara marks a turning point in the movie, and it begins to finally feel like the Renaissance movie that it is. It gradually gets better and better leading up to the ending, which is one of the best endings that Disney has ever done.
Hercules is a good movie, though not without it's flaws, it is worth watching for the ending alone.


Best Character: Megara

I know what you're saying: 'why not Hades?' Hades may have been an awesome villain, but Meg is on a whole other tier. She has a level of character development rarely seen in Disney movies, especially in the heroine. Her betrayal and ultimate redemption adds some meat to a story that's otherwise extremely weak.


Worst Characters(s): Pain & Panic

More useless and annoying henchmen who are overshadowed by their master. Yeah, Disney could sure use a lot more of those.

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SuperNiceDog is about 20% cooler then the other gurus.

Pinocchio
Peter Pan
Mulan
Tarzan
Bolt

Which of these is next?

I'm guessing Bolt.

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The Hunger Games>Mockingjay>Catching Fire
Majora's Mask won GotD. Deal with it.

To me, Hercules did what Emperor's New Groove could not. It achieved being comical while not being obsessively so. That goes for all the characters in both films. You mention Hades is your favorite but some part of you wish he was a little darker, yet I think a performance change at all would have tarnished the character. In a world with many predictable and cliche villains, Hades shines because of the spin James Woods puts on the character. Even if he may not be my favorite Disney villain, I certainly have a great deal of respect for his uniqueness.

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Still smilin'
:>

I agree about Hades, which is why I said I was ultimately glad they didn't change the character to make him darker. I realize it would have been difficult to make him both darker and keep the character James Woods created intact, so I opted to side with the Hades we do see. Likewise he's not my favorite Disney villain, but he's very good at what he does.

Next is Bolt or Mulan.

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darkx 3DS FC: 5241-2144-5671 (add me and pm me urs!)
http://i40.tinypic.com/mabj1t.gif

Oh god, it's Aladdin. I know it.

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From: BrettEagles | #347

Oh god, it's Aladdin. I know it.

Oh yeah I forgot about that.

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The Hunger Games>Mockingjay>Catching Fire
Majora's Mask won GotD. Deal with it.

Sorry Brett it actually is Aladdin.

jk