Board 8 > Doc Ranks the Animated Disney Canon Pt 2: I Want Much More Than Those 500 Posts!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh, yeah, TGMD comments.

I still loathe it's comics, but I love the movie. Ratigan was great. Still get chills everytime I see the part where he went berserk.

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My Little Phineas and Ferb: Summer is Magic!
Aww, I lost to SuperNiceDog, Winner of the Rivalry Rumble Guru Contest

TGMD is so underrated by the general public (it's fairly popular among the hardcore Disney crowd though).

The time has come
It's for the best I know it
Who would have guessed it'd get this high
Finally today, ol' Cindy says goodbye

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darkx 3DS FC: 5241-2144-5671 (add me and pm me urs!)
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GMD is pretty solid all around, but it could have been better. I personally found the bar scene completely unnecessary and detrimental to the film overall. Just wasted too much time; characters who make a single appearance in a film shouldn't usually have a song (especially in a film with next to no music).

The end fight is one of the best Disney has done though, definitely on par with the Renaissance age villain fights. Ratigan going berserk, tearing off his formal attire and finally embracing his true nature was compelling.

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Still smilin'
:>

I think we all hated the bar scene.

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My Little Phineas and Ferb: Summer is Magic!
Aww, I lost to SuperNiceDog, Winner of the Rivalry Rumble Guru Contest

It seems like Wreck-It-Ralph will also have minimal songs, but don't quote me on that.

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Proud ValHellen x Maha_Bufudyne shipper.

Well, it could set itself up for:

"Vocals in my VG music? GTFO!"

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My Little Phineas and Ferb: Summer is Magic!
Aww, I lost to SuperNiceDog, Winner of the Rivalry Rumble Guru Contest

That'd be p awesome.

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Proud ValHellen x Maha_Bufudyne shipper.

Not only is today the 4th of July, it's also my birthday! Thus I have two very solid excuses as to why there won't be an update today.

Have a happy 4th everyone!

Happy Birthday!

*gives you a copy of Chicken Little*

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

A very merry un......

A very merry BIRTHDAY, to you!

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Little town...
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Aww yeah, happy birthday!

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Proud ValHellen x Maha_Bufudyne shipper.

Happy birthday Doc. Hope you're not feeling sneezy because of all the bad weather we've been having lately. Since I'm not bashful I'm going to reveal a secret to you: the sound of rain makes me tired. If you're the same way and the weather is making you sleepy then it's probably best to lie down and take a nap. Though you might feel a bit dopey upon waking up, it's a lot better than being grumpy from the restlessness.

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Fennec... :3
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Happy day

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Still smilin'
:>

From: GenesisSaga | #262

Happy birthday Doc. Hope you're not feeling sneezy because of all the bad weather we've been having lately. Since I'm not bashful I'm going to reveal a secret to you: the sound of rain makes me tired. If you're the same way and the weather is making you sleepy then it's probably best to lie down and take a nap. Though you might feel a bit dopey upon waking up, it's a lot better than being grumpy from the restlessness.

Yeah, in case this was not clear enough for you.



SNOW WHITE HAD BETTER BE ****ING NEXT!!!

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From: Regaro_Ukiera |
MWC is god-tier

Or Cinderella. Really you can't go wrong unless you up and pick Sleeping Beauty.

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

From: GenesisSaga | #265

Or Cinderella. Really you can't go wrong unless you up and pick Sleeping Beauty.

It is true that in NO WAY should Cinderella have outlasted some of these films it is ahead of. However, **** no, Snow White should have been here like 25 spots ago. At least Cinderella is a good film, Doc is just massively overrating it. Snow White sucks, and Doc is pissing me off by his overratingness of it at this time.

Sleeping Beauty is by far the best classic Princess movie though.

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From: Regaro_Ukiera |
MWC is god-tier

I'd have to say Cinderella > Sleeping Beauty > Snow White but none of them are bad.

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

Snow White > Sleeping Beauty > Cinderella, but Cinderella/Sleeping Beauty flip-flop on a regular basis, so I could feel totally differently tomorrow.

#17 – Cinderella (1950)

Best Character: Lucifer
Worst Character: The Wicked Stepsisters

Cinderella is one of those films that captures the Disney magic perfectly. Even after all these years there’s still something about it that evokes a sense of fascination in magic and dreams. I love the art direction for the film. The theme of the film is essentially to keep on dreaming and eventually your dreams will come true. While perhaps not the greatest of Disney messages to young children, the art direction nevertheless fits it wonderfully. The entire film, especially the scene with the fairy godmother, just has this dreamlike atmosphere built into it that I love.

Apparently many little girls grow up dreaming to be just like Cinderella. While kindness is certainly a good virtue to strive for, her story isn’t exactly the most inspirational. She’s kind and generous, but she doesn’t pull herself out of her miserable situation on her own. Instead she relies on luck to get her through. I’m glad it worked out for Cinderella, as she’s certainly deserving of the lifestyle she received at the end of the film, but it’s not a great message to send to little girls. The character herself is fairly flat. I suppose most of the classic era Disney females all fit this mold, and most suffer because of it. I’m able to empathize with her situation, but I really don’t connect with her character in any real, meaningful way as I do some of the others. Prince Charming is basically a non-entity in the film, only to really appear during the ballroom sequence. While I can get behind the whole love at first sight shtick Disney loves to use, it would be nice to see a little more development between the two. Both of the lead characters lack an identifiable personality. Thankfully the side characters have some.

The side characters in this film are actually more entertaining than the main characters. The mice are fantastic side characters that are very capable of carrying the film for the portions not focused on Cinderella. I will admit that some of the segments with the mice really aren’t crucial to the plotline of Cinderella. They’re nevertheless entertaining enough for me not to consider it a weakness in the film. Jack and Gus are definitely the stars of the side characters. Their antics are great fun to watch, especially whenever Lucifer is involved. The two of them develop a great friendship over the course of the film, culminating in their joint effort to help Cinderella escape and achieve her dream. These two are great sidekicks, filled with bravery and humor enough to carry the film in some of its duller spots. I love the way they speak to one another, especially how Jack always repeats everything he says. “Gus gus, zut zut, etc.” The other star of the film is Lucifer, and admittedly it’s probably not a traditional choice for best character. Nevertheless I loved his antics enough to put him there in the coveted best character position. He is deliciously evil, picking on poor Cinderella whenever the opportunity presents itself. Lucifer is the only character in the film that openly and directly partakes in evil actions. He is the primary antagonist to the mice and really the only villain that receives and kind of comeuppance. One of my main problems with the film is simply how none of the other villains had much of a comeuppance. Nothing happens to Lady Tremaine or the Wicked Stepsisters. At least in the original edition the Wicked Stepsisters cut off their own toes in an effort to fit their feet inside the glass slipper. Here in the Disney version nothing much happens to them. It’s too bad since they’re such obnoxious characters. They’re just bullies. Lame. Their mother is a much more interesting character.

Lady Tremaine is Mother Gothel lite. She doesn’t have the screentime Gothel does, but she has a lot of the same mannerisms. She’s extremely passive aggressive and manipulative. Unlike Lucifer who delights in directly antagonizing the mice and Cinderella, Lady Tremaine does so indirectly. It’s clear she delights in torturing Cinderella, but she does so in the mind. It’s a unique type of evil that works perfectly for the film. Of all the leads, Lady Tremaine is really the only one with any sort of personality. She is clearly jealous of Cinderella’s charm and beauty, and yearns to upgrade her own status. She has clear goals and a deliciously evil personality. I’m glad Disney revisited this archetype with Mother Gothel, as it’s certainly a unique sort of evil that I personally like to see.

The songs in Cinderella are good but not great. As a whole they’re very solid, but they don’t have many standouts. “Cinderella” is my favorite of the bunch, as I love the voices of the mice and their can-do attitude throughout the song. The scene itself is very iconic, as the idea of mice and other forest animals helping to fashion a dress has since been copied in a number of different media. “Sing Sweet Nightingale” is my second favorite of the bunch, and it’s beautifully sung by Ilene Woods. “Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo” is arguably the most famous of the bunch, but it’s a little lacking in the vocal department. I love the art direction for the sequence, but not so much the song. “A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes” is another big single from the film, but always seemed a little boring to me. It does have a good message though, and its theme served as the main theme throughout the entire film. Each of these songs are good in their own way, although independently none would make my top 20. They make up a very solid soundtrack for a great film.

Cinderella is a good film. Perhaps I’m blinded by its status as a classic, but I genuinely enjoy watching it a lot. It’s one of those rare films that I could watch over and over again and not get sick of it. It always flies by when I watch it, and there isn’t really a boring sequence where I struggle to maintain my focus. Its leads are a bit flat, but the soundtrack and dreamlike atmosphere are fantastic. Its message may be a little naïve, but to young dreamers I think it’s great. Maybe combine the film with Pinocchio or The Sword in the Stone just to make sure kids understand they need to learn and go to school to become successful as well. Dreaming isn’t everything!

Next Up: Another classic falls.

Oh, and thank you for all the birthday wishes! The fireworks in Seattle were incredible.

100% agree on Lucifer being the best. He steals every scene he's in. Without him and the mice, the movie wouldn't be nearly as good.

Another classic eh? I'm hoping you aren't gonna kill Pinocchio just yet. Let's go with Sleeping Beauty (for like the 20th time I've guessed this lol).

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

You really need to just get ended....absolutely ENDED!

Snow White is next.

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg

DoctorBIind posted...

Oh, and thank you for all the birthday wishes! The fireworks in Seattle were incredible.

Were you at Gasworks Park? We almost went to those this year - that show truly is incredible.

I've always liked Cinderella. I also agree the supporting cast outshines the leads, but the leads themselves are not bad considering the age they come from. And none of the classic princesses really set a very good example for young girls. All of them are damsels that need to be rescued by a dashing prince and then they live happily ever after. That's an important concept to "Disney magic" I know, but only if it were really that simple. The more recent films at least paint the characters in a bit less of a conveniently simple light.

If you haven't watched Cinderella 3, I would strongly suggest it. Surprisingly enough, it is one of the best sequels Disney has done. It does a lot of the things the original doesn't cover due to its age.

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Still smilin'
:>

To me Cinderella is the good version of Tiana. She does hard work without mentioning it every other line of dialog like Tiana does.

"Speaking of Dr. Facilier summoning demons to ruin Naveen's life, he couldn't have done that without HARD WORK! HE'S JUST LIKE ME IN THAT REGARD GUYS HAVE I EVER TOLD YOU ABOUT HOW I'VE WORKED HARD MY ENTIRE LIFE?!"

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

Yay Meeko

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I love Zigzagoon! <3
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Cinderelli.

Yeah, it's most likely Snow White next.

A bit OOT, but Snow White and the Huntsman was boring and generic.

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Proud ValHellen x Maha_Bufudyne shipper.

Cinderella

Doc's Ranking: 17/51
Karo's Ranking: 26/49

A generic fairy tale with some very good songs ('Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo' especially). The mice were great, and their antics keep the movie from getting boring (which it would have gotten without them). The villain is excellent, but sadly, we are once again stuck with a stock Prince/Princess with little originality.
A decent enough movie, but generally extremely overrated.


Best Character: Lady Tremaine

This vile woman simply exudes evil. Not satisfied with making her stepdaughter her slave, she decides to employ psychological torture against Cinderella by telling her she can got to the ball, then crushing her hopes like a little bug. A very effective villain.


Worst Character: Cinderella

This 'honor' would have gone to Prince Charming, but I felt he barely could be even called a character, as he has only one line (and little screentime) in the movie.
Although Cinderella does have a little more personality then your standard classic Disney heroine, one will come the realization at the end of the movie that despite being the main character, she hasn't done a single thing of significance in the entire movie, other then to do chores and sing. The mice make her dress, the mice save her from Lady Tremaine, everything required for the ball was given to her by the Fairy Godmother, etc. The movie might as well be about a department store mannequin.

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SuperNiceDog is about 20% cooler then the other gurus.

StifledSilence posted...

To me Cinderella is the good version of Tiana. She does hard work without mentioning it every other line of dialog like Tiana does.

"Speaking of Dr. Facilier summoning demons to ruin Naveen's life, he couldn't have done that without HARD WORK! HE'S JUST LIKE ME IN THAT REGARD GUYS HAVE I EVER TOLD YOU ABOUT HOW I'VE WORKED HARD MY ENTIRE LIFE?!"

You know what the difference is?

Tiana works to build up something she cares for, and there's pride in that.
Cinderella works because she's forced to do so, there's just shame in that.
Tiana has a supportive mother around and lives in a context where she's free of speaking her mind.
Cinderella lives in a context where insubordination would be harshly punished.

You would see why one would talk about her hard work and the other wouldn't.

Seriously.

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SuperNiceDog won the Guru contest super nicely!

StifledOpinions

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Still smilin'
:>

Vengeful_KBM posted...

Were you at Gasworks Park? We almost went to those this year - that show truly is incredible.

Not quite. I'm in Wallingford though, so we just got on our roof and watched the fireworks at Gasworks from there.

vcharon posted...

If you haven't watched Cinderella 3, I would strongly suggest it. Surprisingly enough, it is one of the best sequels Disney has done. It does a lot of the things the original doesn't cover due to its age.

I have not! As soon I get a reliable internet connection going again I'll try and get it from Netflix. Is the second pretty good as well?

And yeah, sorry Stifled, but I have to agree with he general consensus here. I love the film, but Tiana >>> Cinderella. Sure, Tiana can get a little bit repetitive, but at least she works at her dreams. Like Karo said, Cinderella just lets her dreams magically come to her.

Also I agree with practically everything Karo said. Lady Tremaine is the bright spot of the film for me - she is just EVIL. One of the all-time great Disney villains.

The second one is alright but the third one seems to ignore it completely in terms on the canon. Each of the sequels is basically standalone, except in relation to the first film of course. The second is a bit like the "TV show sequels" that Tarzan and Atlantis got. I'm not sure it was the intention, but it basically tells three short stories and the reasoning is that the mice are making up a new book because continuously reading Cinderella over and over gets old.

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Still smilin'
:>

I didn't say Cinderella was working hard for her dreams because she clearly didn't lol. I just said she was doing hard work and didn't really make a fuss about it like Tiana does. I guess my point was I found Tiana to be annoying and repetitive and I liked Cinderella.

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

#16 – Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)

Best Character: Grumpy
Worst Character: Prince Charming

In ranking these films I’ve been trying not to give too much weight to common ranking pitfalls such as nostalgia or historical significance. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs was so influential however it’s difficult to overlook. I’ll just read off a few of its impressive achievements before getting to my write-up: it was the first full-length cell-animated film ever made, the first produced in color, the first animated feature produced in the U.S., and the very first of the Disney canon. Basically without Snow White Disney wouldn’t be the same as it is today. Snow White was absolutely groundbreaking and holds up wonderfully to this very day. It’s one of the most iconic films ever made, with a number of scenes influencing films still produced to this day. I have been so tempted to move this film higher and higher just to see how many of you explode in anger over its placement. You guys are aware this film is fairly consistently placed at the top of the Disney mountain, right? I mean, sure it’s not the best Disney film ever, but I suppose its justification as being the best isn’t insane. Its justification is laced in nostalgia, but it’s still reasonable for someone to place it at the top. It was revolutionary after all.

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is also one of the best adaptations of a story tale Disney has ever told. I haven’t actually read the original versions of many of the books Disney films have been based off of. I am, however, fairly familiar with Snow White, and can attest to the fact that Disney did a good job portraying it, even with some kid-friendly adjustments. No, Disney doesn’t make the Evil Queen dance around in burning hot iron shoes, but her death is still exceptionally well done.

This film is dark. There are so many instances in this film that terrified me as a kid, and I don’t think anyone can properly review Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs without at least mentioning the spooky forest. Sure, a lot of its power on me has since been lost, but I can still recognize scariness when I see it. For the very first animated film to create such a powerfully memorable scene is very impressive. And don’t get me started on the ride at Disneyworld. It has since been removed, but man that was a scary ride. The film deals with a number of accompanying dark scenes, the most memorable being the encounter with the huntsman and the final battle between the dwarfs and the Evil Queen. If you’ve read many of these write-ups, you know that many of my favorite scenes are the climaxes at the end. The ultimate showdown between good and evil. It’s no different in this film, as the showdown between the dwarfs and the Evil Queen is fascinating. The witch undoubtedly regrets her decision to place herself in a weakened state as the dwarfs chase her down amidst the pouring rain and impending lightning strikes. It’s such an intense scene. The dwarfs transform before our eyes into murderous avengers completely bent on causing great harm towards the old hag. A lightning strike eventually causes the Evil Queen to plummet to her death (the first of many for Disney!), but had the dwarfs gotten to her first there’s no doubt they would have relentlessly beaten her to death. She was screwed either way.

I have never found the Evil Queen as great of a villain as she should be. I love her vanity and the lengths she goes through to reclaim her title as fairest in the land, but I have never understood her methods. Surely there are easier ways to kill Snow White than transforming yourself into a frail old hag and convincing her to eat a poisoned apple! Although Snow White and the Huntsman was a terrible movie, the scenes with Charlize Theron as the Evil Queen were great. I loved her portrayal of the Evil Queen, and that’s how I would have liked to see the animated version act. As it was, the Evil Queen in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs was a bit lacking. We didn’t really see a lot of her treachery, only that she hated Snow White with a passion. The one act we did see wasn’t very well thought out, as it ultimately resulted in her demise.

Unfortunately the entire cast of humans is lacking in the development and personality department as well. The huntsman has a very small role, and Prince Charming even smaller. Not to mention Prince Charming is a total creep. He just approaches this dead girl in a casket and kisses her. Weird. Snow White as a character is difficult to fully appreciate. She has been mimicked and parodied so many times it's impossible to ignore her significance. She created a plethora of memorable and iconic scenes, from singing with the birds, commanding the forest animals to help her clean, and even her performance of “Whistle While You Work.” Her voice is one of the most interesting aspects of her character, and I’m apparently one of the few who enjoy it. It’s certainly childlike, but it has a sense of innocence and naïveté that I think works great for her character. I can see how some might consider it irksome, but to me it’s a perfect fit for Snow White. She’s a little dumb at times but hey, she’s a kid. I will admit though that she really should be more cautious of trusting strangers after being chased out of the kingdom by the Evil Queen and then narrowly avoiding having her heart stolen from the huntsman. As soon as the witch told her it was a magical wishing apple she dropped her guard completely and bit on the witch’s lie (literally!). And some of you people think Ariel is stupid! It’s a little funny how Snow White is never shown eating the apple itself, not to mention how we don’t even see her collapse after she bites it. I suppose it was just another way to make the film a little bit more kid-friendly. Also how weird would it be if you came home to discover that some stranger entered your house while you were away, cleaned it, did your laundry, and then went to sleep in your bed. That’s one of the creepiest things in the entire film and it’s performed by our heroine! Of course it just serves as an example of how trusting she is, but still. She’s lucky the dwarfs didn’t kill her on the spot.

The dwarfs are admittedly a bit shallow. That’s apparent enough just by looking at the names of the seven dwarves and realizing their entire personality comes from said names. The only real exception, and this is why I chose him as the best character, is Grumpy. Throughout the film Grumpy embodies so much more than just grumpiness. Yes, for the first half of the film it’s his defining characteristic, but he really evolves over time. He showcases instances where he’s bashful, happy, dopey, and serious. When he goes off to work and slyly tries to get a kiss out of Snow White, there’s no grumpiness there. Maybe a hint of Dreamy, but certainly not Grumpy.

What else is there to say about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs? It really is a masterpiece. It’s beautifully animated, and holds up well even to this day. The showdown at the end is animated exceptionally well, and I love the way the rain looks during the storm. The characters are really the only aspect of the film that could be improved upon. Fortunately for Snow White everything else about it is so artfully done. The score is perfect for the atmosphere, especially during the storm at the end. The songs fit the film as well, and many have since become iconic Disney classics, especially “Whistle While You Work.” Its accolades aside, there is much to appreciate about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. My love for the film and its placement here only goes to show just how much I love the remaining films.

Next Up: This film contains narration.

I don't know Doc, I guess I could see this one being high from an "objective" point of view but, even recognizing its influence, SWatSD always bored me to death, its characters bored me to death and everything always seemed way too basic to me. I thought the same as a kid actually, it's one of those movies I hardly ever rewatched.

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SuperNiceDog won the Guru contest super nicely!

As for next, Hunchback?

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SuperNiceDog won the Guru contest super nicely!

Lol aww I was enjoying the MWC tantrums.

Hercules had narration didn't it? Yeah let's go with that.

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"THIS is how you make Nintendo win another generation. Good job, Sony and Microsoft, you're idiots." - Vlado

Beauty and the Beast? *gets shot*

(Honestly though, better that than Hercules or Hunchback, which are both easily in my Top 10.)

Should be Hunchback if it is any of those 3. BatB is top 3 (maybe 1) and Hercules is definitely top 10, and potential top 5.

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From: Regaro_Ukiera |
MWC is god-tier

From: DoctorBIind | #289

Next Up: This film contains narration.

I swear to f***ing God, if a certain film is next I am permanently switching your tag to Archimedes!

And lol, I wasn't even referring to Beauty and the Beast!

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Little town...
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Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs

Doc's Ranking: 16/51
Karo's Ranking: 8/49

The first full length animated movie ever made, and still one of the best. The songs are memorable, the animation is top notch, and it tells a very good story. All of which is quite amazing feat due to at that time, of course, nobody really knew what makes an animated movie good because one hadn't been made yet.
Although, frankly, I am convinced Snow White is mentally 'special'. I mean, she talks to herself (and random woodland critters) constantly in a manner that is reminiscent of a 4 year old, she breaks into a strange house and then immediately starts ransacking it with her horde of animals without even first checking to see if there was anyone upstairs, and she lets someone whose appearance screams 'OMG, evil witch! ke-he-he-he!' into the house despite being told explicitly NOT to do so by the dwarves. Oh well, at least she's a little bit different then the standard cut-and-pasted classic Disney female.
The third best of the classic movies, and should be seen by everyone, at least for the historical significance.


Best Character: Grumpy

Everyone's favorite lovable grouchy dwarf. He gets most of the best lines in the movie, and is the only one of the dwarves that really gets any character development.


Worst Character: The Prince

Gee, what an original name. How did they ever think that one up? The only two things 'The Prince' does in the movie is to randomly pop up in the castle gardens for some reason and scare Snow White half to death, and then only show up again after her apparent death and try to make out with her dead body in a blatant display of necrophilia. This guy is a prime candidate for the medieval sex offender registry.

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SuperNiceDog is about 20% cooler then the other gurus.

From: PrinceKaro | #296

Karo's Ranking: 8/49

MWC would have enjoyed your rankings :P

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Little town...
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I thought wanting Doc to be tossed off a cliff without a parachute was enough. I was wrong, after that write up and the praise he heaped on that worthless piece of s*** of a movie, I can't think of enough. Then Karo comes and one ups that by saying there are only SEVEN films in the canon better than that garbage Snow White, and I am reminded what true hate is.

Impaled by a serrated blade through the stomach.... That seems fair enough.

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From: Regaro_Ukiera |
MWC is god-tier

From: EmDubyaSee | #298

I can't think

I agree.

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The Hunger Games>Mockingjay>Catching Fire
Majora's Mask won GotD. Deal with it.

It's Hercules.

Better not be freakin' Hunchback. That's top 10- if not top 5 material right there.

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Fennec... :3
http://fennecfox.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fennec-Fox-Having-Fun.jpg