yes
why is kaonashi online or something
--
You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT.
{Drakeryn}
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Gatarix 02/10/12 3:24:00 PM #51: |
yes
why is kaonashi online or something -- You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT. {Drakeryn} ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 3:27:00 PM #52: |
From: Lopen | #044 He's a guy breaking into my house to steal from me and if not, harm me and my loved ones. My loved ones are the most important thing to me. I wouldn't kill someone else because a loved one of mine, say, asked me too, but I'm protecting them. Also, there is no such thing as knowing that he wouldn't harm me or my loved ones anyway, or that he won't come back. On top of that, he will just move on to the next house with the same thing, potentially killing my neighbors. It's terrible, terrible intent whether you insist it's not. I pause only because the $5000 is new money. Me killing him has nothing to do with that. It has to do with my loved ones. You threaten them, your life is forfeit. Maybe that makes you a better person than me, Lopen, but I don't mind. I have my gun for two reasons: one, to have fun on weekends and two, to kill anybody who can harm to people I love. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KanzarisKelshen 02/10/12 3:27:00 PM #53: |
Give him the money. You guys are thinking of yourselves far too highly if you think you'll be fine after taking a life. I do not wish to inflict anyone harm, nor get into a fight for no reason. I'll give the guy the money, stay safe, and go on with my life.
-- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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edwardsdv 02/10/12 3:27:00 PM #54: |
Kill baby kill
-- http://img.imgcake.com/nio/81edpngej.png edwardsdv and swordz9 are basically the comedy heel tag team of this topic, why would people be taking them seriously? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HeroicGammaRay 02/10/12 3:27:00 PM #55: |
no, just trying to decide to whom i'll be talking for the next several hours
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KanzarisKelshen 02/10/12 3:28:00 PM #56: |
From: DigitalIncision | #052 Except that isn't the premise Lopen presented. So basically you're acting on stupidity, not even on an emotional decision. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 3:29:00 PM #57: |
From: KanzarisKelshen | #056 My house, you get shot. Invading my space is threatening me and my loved ones. Saying "I want this money that is now yours or I will kill you and your loved ones" is plenty to make me kill them. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 3:31:00 PM #58: |
In other words, - Assume the person intended to break into your house, will kill you before you can escape, hide, or call the police if you don't kill him, but otherwise has no hostile intent towards you. - is the most important thing here. That alone is enough to make me perfectly alright with killing the guy.
-- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KanzarisKelshen 02/10/12 3:33:00 PM #59: |
From: DigitalIncision | #057 Except your loved ones wouldn't be killed. Once again, you're assuming. You're adding stuff to the premise that just isn't there. If that's your thing then fine, but don't try to dress it up. Say "I'm acting on gut and on vindictive rage". Say 'I wouldn't even take an instant of those five minutes I get to consider the fact that I will kill somebody and watch them squirm, bleed and die, as the life goes out of him, as he looks at me, as I realize I've taken a life when I could have done better than this'. Say "I don't realize just how much weight this choice would have in the flesh and how I'm doing a big angry talk without having anything to back it up". It'll be more honest. -- Sburbopolis, Homestuck RPG: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60981373 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 3:33:00 PM #60: |
From: DigitalIncision | #057 If ignoring the elder gods who just gave you a weapon and $5000 out of thin air on this one clause where they specifically tell you he won't inflict any harm on you if you give him the money helps you sleep at night by all means! I can certainly see killing him thinking that a guy with that mindset breaking into your house is something you should kill to protect your neighborhood/city and having the mindset of a vigilante, but "not believing that he'll leave peacefully if you give him the money so I'd better protect my family" is a cop out. -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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neoneaper 02/10/12 3:36:00 PM #61: |
shoot him like a laptop
-- Donny: They posted the next round for the tournament. Walter: Donny, shut the f- when do we play? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Great_Paul 02/10/12 3:39:00 PM #62: |
Definitely
-- I was saying boo-urns. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Azp2k32 02/10/12 3:40:00 PM #63: |
Kill him in this situation. As someone who's been robbed before, I have no sympathy for anyone who would rob a random person's place of residence. Realistically, if I give $5,000 to that person, if I'm lucky they don't rob someone else for a bit longer. Even if I weren't getting $5,000 dollars, I'd kill the person in this scenario. I would have a moral imperative to kill this person who is not only awful enough to break into victim's homes but is willing to kill his victim should they be unlucky enough to be at home.
-- http://www.nbc.com/parks-and-recreation/exclusives/ron-dancing-animated.gif ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 3:40:00 PM #64: |
From: Lopen | #060 Once again, I'll say this. This is the most important part: "Assume the person intended to break into your house, will kill you before you can escape, hide, or call the police if you don't kill him, but otherwise has no hostile intent towards you" That IS hostile intent. It's "give me this or I kill you." That doesn't fly. Not in my home with my loved ones around me. If I was a grocery store clerk and somebody held me at gunpoint, hell yeah, you take whatever you want. If I'm in my house with my gun and I can shoot the guy? Done deal. Again, this is coming from someone who is a firm believer in the death penalty (though not the way we currently use it) and more methods of punishment. I believe in reciprocating punishment and I think there's no room for people who will kill someone if they dont get what they want. Like the bat thing, I don't consider it in my capacity to actually pull the trigger when it was not me or my loved ones directly affected. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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voltch 02/10/12 3:42:00 PM #65: |
Can I renogiate the deal to be paid in Marijuana?
-- Dr voltchball - best in the world. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Silverliner182V 02/10/12 3:44:00 PM #66: |
i'd give him the 5000 dollars, then i would beat him up and take my 5000 back.
he can't fight back because he has to leave peacefully. he can never get revenge because he can never come back. -- maybe, lol ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 3:45:00 PM #67: |
From: DigitalIncision | #064 Except it's ignoring the clause where it says he will leave peacefully, as told by the Elder Gods who have magically produced money. Also it's not that he says "give me $5000 or I'll kill you" it's more like if you don't grovel and give him the $5000 as he enters the area so he'll please leave he assumes you have the intent to kill him (and you probably do in any given situation, given your gun-happy posts) so he kills you in self defense. So yeah, it's not that he has murderous intent, it's more that he's killing you to prevent you from killing him first, which you obviously are of the mindset to do! -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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X_Dante_X 02/10/12 3:47:00 PM #68: |
bang bang
-- boring and mundane signature congratulating SuperNiceDog Now with more bold! Less Italics due to bold ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 3:48:00 PM #69: |
From: Lopen | #067 I don't care if he WILL leave peacefully. He will kill if he doesn't get money. He deserves to die, in my book. Knowing everything you've set forth from the various elder gods, this is a man with murderous intent if he doesn't get what he wants. You said it yourself that he'd be after me if I tried to, say, call the cops. I'd kill him pretty quickly and without remorse. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 3:51:00 PM #70: |
He will kill if he doesn't get the $5000, but that doesn't mean it's not because he's out to kill people. Think of it from his situation-- you're an armed man in the house that he's robbing and you've both stumbled upon each other. You don't immediately shoot him, so his options are either to shoot you or run away. Given that you might be armed and it's a spur of the moment thing he could very well shoot you without actually wanting to do it.
On the other hand, yeah, you're free to interpret it that way that he's a cold hearted killer that deserves to die (and apparently deserves to die more than the person who has actually killed someone!) given the scenario but that's not a given premise. -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 3:55:00 PM #71: |
In any case I just want it to be clear that unless you don't believe the Elder Gods and think they're trying to deceive you (and in that case why would you believe he'll kill you if you call the cops) you're no longer killing strictly out of defense at that point you're being a vigilante. Which is cool, and all, but yeah, trying to call it self defense based on ignoring some premises while accepting others is a cop out to me!
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 3:56:00 PM #72: |
From: Lopen | #070 He's willing to kill if he doesn't get what he wants. Why he's there or his intent when he came in doesn't matter. On the other hand, yeah, you're free to interpret it that way that he's a cold hearted killer that deserves to die (and apparently deserves to die more than the person who has actually killed someone!) given the scenario but that's not a given premise. He deserves to die only because I and my loved ones are involved, and will be killed if we don't submit to him, and the possibility that he will kill others who do not submit to him. This is how terrorism works. The other guy in the other scenario of course deserves to die, I said that several times over. I never said he deserves to die more. I said in this situation, I could pull the trigger. In the other, I could not. In the other, I could, if I were preventing him from killing again. But as it stands, he's perfectly able to be killed by someone else who needs money. And yes, Lopen, your tone is shining through and congratulations, you are probably a better person than I am. This isn't a discussion to you, it's a way to act condescending to people who feel differently than you. As such, I'm done with this. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SmartMuffin 02/10/12 3:57:00 PM #73: |
Just to be clear, the elder gods have no authority to create federal reserve notes, so the money you keep or give to the guy is technically counterfeit.
-- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 3:59:00 PM #74: |
Psh, no, I'd kill him (and the murderer with a bat) easily and for much less. I'm worse than anyone on the board other than HGR given the responses.
I'm just calling you out on copping out on the question is all! You can't say he's threatening you due to the premises when the premises specifically say he will no longer threaten you if you do such and such a condition. -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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mnkboy907 02/10/12 4:00:00 PM #75: |
From: SmartMuffin | #073 Pretty sure the elder gods have the authority to do whatever the f*** they want. -- http://i50.tinypic.com/23qx00.jpg "First time I got punched in the face, I was like "oh no", then I was like "this is a story"." ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SmartMuffin 02/10/12 4:00:00 PM #76: |
when the premises specifically say he will no longer threaten you if you do such and such a condition.
Uh, that's still threatening you though. If I come up to you on the street and say "Give me your wallet or I'll kill you" that still counts as threatening. I couldn't plead innocence to the police by saying "Well he could have just given me his wallet and then I wouldn't threaten him anymore" That's not how it works. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 4:01:00 PM #77: |
From: Lopen | #074 It's not a cop-out. If I don't give him the money, he'll kill me. I don't believe people who operate like that should live. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 4:03:00 PM #78: |
From: SmartMuffin | #076 The elder gods have told you he will leave peacefully if given the $5000. Those are the same elder gods that say he will kill you, and have magically created money and a weapon. You can believe the elder gods are lying but it's not the same as a guy saying "if you give me $5000 I'll leave" and taking the guy at his word. These are high and might omniscient gods that say it will happen that way. -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 4:04:00 PM #79: |
From: DigitalIncision | #077 Yeah. I'm cool with that. If you're killing him because he "doesn't deserve to live" that's fine! I'd agree with you! Just don't pass it off as self defense is all I'm saying. The premise given pretty much writes that out of the script. If you give him the $5000 he leaves no questions asked and without inflicting harm on you. -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SmartMuffin 02/10/12 4:04:00 PM #80: |
You can believe the elder gods are lying but it's not the same as a guy saying "if you give me $5000 I'll leave" and taking the guy at his word. These are high and might omniscient gods that say it will happen that way.
That's totally beside the point. The guy is threatening you under the condition that you give him something that does not belong to him. The fact that you have the power to overcome his threat by cooperating with his unreasonable demands does not mean there is no threat. Generally speaking, you can be pretty sure that if you give a mugger your wallet he will run off and not shoot you, because if he was going to shoot you, he'd have just done it and taken the wallet off your corpse. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 4:05:00 PM #81: |
The elder gods have told you he will leave peacefully if given the $5000. Those are the same elder gods that say he will kill you, and have magically created money and a weapon.
So? There's still punishment. It's still a crime. I can't just pick one time to steal in my life and it's gravy. And in this case, catching him and calling the police (the fitting punishment for what I assume is a first offender) is not allowed as per your definitions. If I do that, he'll kill me. There's no free pass. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 4:09:00 PM #82: |
From: SmartMuffin | #081 He's not saying this, though. The Elder Gods are saying "if you act in this way he will leave (or die) otherwise he will shoot you." The criminal hasn't made the demands. As I said there are plenty of scenarios that could play out where the guy kills you and they're not all because he wants to. From: DigitalIncision | #080 Sure. He certainly doesn't deserve the $5000 as a reward for acting unlawfully, and it sucks that you can't call the cops, but it's still not self defense at that point, is all I'm saying. -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 4:10:00 PM #83: |
Sure. He certainly doesn't deserve the $5000 as a reward for acting unlawfully, and it sucks that you can't call the cops, but it's still not self defense at that point, is all I'm saying.
I believe it is. You have two ways to defend yourself - give him the money or kill him. I choose killing him based on the aforementioned bit about him not deserving the $5000. It's legally definable as self defense and, of course, in my mind. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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paperwarior 02/10/12 4:13:00 PM #84: |
I think if he's threatening to kill you, it is self-defense. If it was an unarmed burglar who was running away with $5000 and the only way to stop him was to shoot him, then it wouldn't be self-defense.
-- The tragedy continues! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 4:15:00 PM #85: |
Well sure the whole thing is legally definable as self defense given he has broken into your home.
Most scenarios don't have magical elder gods telling you what will happen though. If you accept the entire scenario it's less an issue of self defense as much as "scum like this doesn't deserve a free $5000." I would've changed it to paperwarior's scenario but the issue there is that the burglar is causing you a net loss in that scenario rather than you losing what you could've gained. If there was a way to make it more like that without seeming too contrived I would've done that. -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Pianist 02/10/12 4:16:00 PM #86: |
kill, easy choice here
-- I'm always serious. Otherwise, no one will take me seriously. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 4:17:00 PM #87: |
From: Lopen | #085 Like I said, I have two ways to defend myself, I choose to kill him. In my mind, it's self defense. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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saveus_Maria 02/10/12 4:17:00 PM #88: |
kill
-- Kill every suspect, starting at one end. The one left standing is your culprit. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 4:24:00 PM #89: |
And in my mind it's only self defense at that point to people rationalizing to make themselves feel better about killing people. Which is why I felt it was a cop-out answer.
I uh... can't really say "I apologize for not seeing it your way" because I still don't and don't think it's possible for me to feel that way without lying to you, so I'll just say... uh... "thanks for your answer" or something. But just know that I'm not trying to act condescending or anything and really just "don't get" how you think-- I'd kill him for free, after all! -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 4:26:00 PM #90: |
From: Lopen | #089 I don't need to feel better about killing him, personally. I have two ways to stop him from killing me: give him $5000 or kill him. I'd choose kill him. In regards to the other part, you just seemed condescending, up until I pointed it out. At which point you stopped, which is why I continued the discussion. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Sceptilesolarbeam 02/10/12 4:29:00 PM #91: |
Give him the money, and probably call the cops on him too. I'm not really sure what the point of the 5000 is, it's not really much to even induce any greed, so it doesn't make the offer noticeably more attractive. That's why people are more concerned with threats to themselves or to others.
-- "As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 4:30:00 PM #92: |
From: Sceptilesolarbeam | #091 Yeah the $5000 is inconsequential, especially as new money. -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 4:30:00 PM #93: |
One more question for you, then.
Change the scenario to $10, and assume that no matter how infeasible it is to imagine, he will leave peacefully and without incident to never return. Do you give him the $10? How about if no money was involved at all, but you couldn't call the cops or anything like that? -- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NeoElfboy 02/10/12 4:31:00 PM #94: |
He will kill if he doesn't get the $5000, but that doesn't mean it's not because he's out to kill people. Think of it from his situation-- you're an armed man in the house that he's robbing and you've both stumbled upon each other. You don't immediately shoot him, so his options are either to shoot you or run away. Given that you might be armed and it's a spur of the moment thing he could very well shoot you without actually wanting to do it.
I find your rationalising of this a little weird. If I make no attempt to attack him and he still shoots me, then that means it was his first inclination upon discovering someone in the house he was robbing (which he knew was a possibility) and therefore had formed intent to kill. I dunno about you, but if I came across a burglar armed with a gun in my house and he had already seen me, the first thing I'm doing is putting my hands up. If he shoots me anyway, he's scum. I wouldn't kill him in this situation (the idea of "rewarding" him for burglary doesn't bother me as much as it does most people, I think, and I don't think I could kill someone in a situation like this where a less bloody alternative exists) but I don't feel overly sorry for this guy if he comes up against the majority of people in this topic who feel differently than me. But his intent is murderous and should not be framed otherwise. Just to be clear, the elder gods have no authority to create federal reserve notes, so the money you keep or give to the guy is technically counterfeit. Haha, that was one of the first things I thought of too! I rationalised this by figuring the elder gods could have gathered up existing money by simply collecting lost bills (hidden throughout the couches of the nation?) that wouldn't be missed, or something similarly neutral. -- The RPG Duelling League: www.rpgdl.com An unparalleled source for RPG information and discussion ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 4:32:00 PM #95: |
From: Lopen | #093 If it were ten dollars, no amount of elder god knowledge could convince me this guy is right in the head enough to believe that he's going to leave me alive! -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DigitalIncision 02/10/12 4:34:00 PM #96: |
From: NeoElfboy | #094 Hah! In my various "three wishes" scenarios, I always just assume that the money comes from the various couches of the world, or if it has to be stolen, it's in one dollar increments from various vaults around the world. :] -- Digi ... Check out http://outoftreble.com/ ... Copied to Clipboard!
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do_ob_tpkillr 02/10/12 4:42:00 PM #97: |
i think this poll is horribly stacked against the option of mercy. if you choose to show mercy you have nothing to gain and everything to lose. no money no bloodlust no nothing. whereas if you choose violence, you gain everything. money, bloodlust, everything.
i don't know whether this point has been raised but i'm not going to check through 8 pages and 80 plus posts to find out. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 4:43:00 PM #98: |
Bloodlust as something to gain I like how this man thinks.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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special_sauce 02/10/12 4:51:00 PM #99: |
I would give the $5000 (I don't think we're allowed to keep the money if we shoot him?)
I wouldn't be able to live with having killed someone. -- Me_Pie_Three wants a SuperNiceDog for Christmas http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/special-sauce-is-my-friend.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lopen 02/10/12 4:52:00 PM #100: |
You keep the money if you shoot him yes. That was incentive!
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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