Board 8 > Who is considered the GOAT video game player?

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Just watched King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters for the first time, and figured people here might be knowledgeable on the subject.

Great film btw. Billy Mitchell is a massive douche but it was impressive how long his record lasted, and how far ahead it was of second place.

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From: Regaro_Ukiera |
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I think the question is a bit too broad though. You can have players who are extremely dominant in one game, or even a few, but then aren't at all in some other games or genres. How do you compare them?

Is it more impressive to be extremely dominant in a RTS like Starcraft or in terms of speed running a game like OoT, or SM64? I'm not sure you could get a true consensus on something like that.

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I think it's more impressive to be dominant in a mutliplayer game, because you have to account for both your own actions as well as your opponent's. Speedrunners don't directly interact with their competition.

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Video games are far too different overall to just pick one.

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GenesisTwilight posted...
I think it's more impressive to be dominant in a mutliplayer game, because you have to account for both your own actions as well as your opponent's. Speedrunners don't directly interact with their competition.

this. you could make a case for a lot of people but I would definitely pick someone who has dominated a multiplayer game over someone that has amazing speed runs and other single player records.

> multiplayer games



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From: Biolizard28 | #007
Video games are far too different overall to just pick one.

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Whoever is considered the GOAT Korean Starcraft player

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The problem with Multi Player vs Single Player thing is that there's no real deterministic measurement of "good"ness. You just have to be better than other people.

Now, I'm not saying that Multi Player isn't more impressive, but an absolutely perfect run of a SP game makes you literally the best as possible as opposed to MP where meta games are ever changing and such, to where I don't think you can be "perfect" in mp.

Just my thoughts.

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From: PartOfYourWorld | #015
Whoever is considered the GOAT Korean Starcraft player

Didn't think of this before coming in, but I would say this
Easily the most competitive game in the world

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Easily Billy Mitchell. He's the god damn man.

From: shadosneko | #016
The problem with Multi Player vs Single Player thing is that there's no real deterministic measurement of "good"ness. You just have to be better than other people.

Now, I'm not saying that Multi Player isn't more impressive, but an absolutely perfect run of a SP game makes you literally the best as possible as opposed to MP where meta games are ever changing and such, to where I don't think you can be "perfect" in mp.

Just my thoughts.

The easy counter argument is that being "the best" at something doesn't necessarily make you better than the not-best at something else. The best possible peanut butter sandwich is (to most people at least) is going to be inferior to the third best five course meal from a fancy French restaurant. The ceiling in single player perfectionism may simply be much lower than in multi player games

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And of course, there's counters to that too, but it's an endless argument really.

Either way, I think this should be split up into sp and mp games and separate lists for each genre.

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This is like asking who is the best person at all sports of all time (except far, far more pathetic).

michael jordan is the consensus answer to that question, it's not even that debated

I don't see how being fallible is a disqualification from GOAT.

I'm fairly sure it's not about never losing ever.

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From: Liquid Wind | #022
michael jordan is the consensus answer to that question, it's not even that debated

Gretsky or that Cricket guy?

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If you can't even name Cricket guy, is he truly a GOAT?

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gretzky is always in the discussion and there are a few quarterbacks that get mentioned, but jordan seems to always win that. not even a big basketball fan myself, this is just how I've observed those conversations going... I've never heard of "that cricket guy"

ya well tell that to billy michtlle

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I think we need some kind of tournament where we round up all the aforementioned people and have them compete in a bunch of different single and multiplayer games. Kind of like that game show Grand Slam.

I've never heard of "that cricket guy"

which also goes to show that playing something people pay attention to is a pre-requisite, no one knows or cares who the best rugby or ultimate frisbee player ever was. for gaming that means starcraft, street fighter, halo, etc

PartOfYourWorld posted...
Whoever is considered the GOAT Korean Starcraft player

The problem is, there really isn't one.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Bonjwa

There are a lot of incredibly dominant ones, but you're not going to find a consensus "Michael Jordan" among them.

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"that cricket guy" is Don Bradman and yeah he should be top 5 on any GoaT list. Ali, Gretsky, Jordan, Bradman, Federer

That said, if you accept that darts is a sport Phil Taylor has to be in the argument, but personally I like to pretend it isn't one because XFD darts.

As for the topic my first thought coming in was Billy Mitchell so him I guess.

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Boxer was innovative and had a huge impact on the Starcraft meta, but then newer players were able to draw from what he did and execute things with better mechanics. Basically, he's something of a legend within the community but it's generally accepted that he was never as good as people like Flash and Jaedong are today.

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LamdaMax | Posted 12/27/2011 10:40:22 PM | message detail | quote
Boxer was innovative and had a huge impact on the Starcraft meta, but then newer players were able to draw from what he did and execute things with better mechanics. Basically, he's something of a legend within the community but it's generally accepted that he was never as good as people like Flash and Jaedong are today.

You know though, I think this is a really fascinating discussion. Who's more brilliant, the person standing on the shoulders of giants, or the giants themselves? Is the trailblazer who really blew the Starcraft meta wide open originally the best, or is the guy who took that and improved on it the best? I think good arguments exist for both.

Is the trailblazer who really blew the Starcraft meta wide open originally the best, or is the guy who took that and improved on it the best?

in my mind "the best" is who would win in a head to head, you deserve credit for being innovative but if someone has copied all of your innovations and executes better than you they can beat you unless you can innovate beyond that as well, which isn't the case with all games as there is sometimes a ceiling. similarly I think most of the best sports players of all time have been relatively recent because the level of athleticism these days is much higher, most of the science on how to train to the utmost effectiveness is within the past 40 years or so. like in football the great teams of the 60s and 70s are frequently argued to be the greatest ever but if you actually watch them they're very slow compared to how the game is played now, if you time machined them into this era they would get mauled by half of the NFL

I think it's more impressive to be dominant in a mutliplayer game, because you have to account for both your own actions as well as your opponent's. Speedrunners don't directly interact with their competition.

Do you feel this way about golfers, too? It's valid but I don't think I agree.

To me when comparing cross-sport or cross-game, the two most relevant questions are (a) how many people attempt to play this activity at a high level, and (b) how much better the would-be GOAT is than the rest at his or her field. I don't think the type of game it is matters.

I do suspect it's possible that multiplayer games like Starcraft just have more people who take it seriously than there are e.g. Mario 64 speedrunners, which would make the concern moot, though.

I've never heard of "that cricket guy"

which also goes to show that playing something people pay attention to is a pre-requisite, no one knows or cares who the best rugby or ultimate frisbee player ever was. for gaming that means starcraft, street fighter, halo, etc

Er, the problem here is a question of location, though. To say people don't pay attention to cricket is a blatant lie, it's one of the most followed sports in the world. It's just not followed (much) in the US, Canada, and a few other locations that together provide almost all of GameFAQs' userbase. A true GOAT discussion should attempt to be more international.

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From: AlecTrevelyan006 | #027
ya well tell that to billy michtlle

I can't believe it took this long for someone to post this.

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Grubby or Moon from Warcraft 3
Daigo for most Capcom fighting games
Kuroda for Third Strike

I can't even compare across those games, it'd be tough to figure out who's the most dominant overall. All those guys are entertaining to watch in their respective games though.

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From: Liquid Wind | #029
no one knows or cares who the best rugby player ever was

uh Jonah Lomu is pretty damn famous and widely known. I like how people try to define someone as the best in their own narrow circle of interests then attempt to widen that to a claim of widespread greatness.

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Rugby's the national sport of most pacific nations and still has millions of fans in europe.

Totally irrelevant.

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Well, on the website http://www.cyberscore.me.uk/ which is used to post and compare personal high scores and records people have in games, Packattack seems to have the highest amount of 1st place spots by far

Also, one example of his amazing work imo is this Super Monkey Ball replay --

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