Dauntless Hunter posted... From: ChichiriMuyo | #080 100k is the bare minimum for people not losing their jobs and never having a place in the industry again. And you're criticizing other people for making claims without anything to back it up?
haha ok
I mean Half-Minute Hero sold 77k in America and it got an upgraded XBLA rerelease. Deathsmiles sold 86k in America and it got a sequel. But people got blacklisted from the gaming industry forever because of both of these games, of course.
What kind of budget did those games have? HMH is a PSP game if I recall, and the other is an arcade shooter? I don't think it's comparable to one of the biggest looking jrpgs.
ChichiriMuyo posted... Vlado posted... Lightning Strikes posted... In other news, Vlado is willfully dense.
lol, and then you try to convince me you aren't regularly opposing me just for the sake of it.
Reality opposes you on a regular basis. Get over it.
Says the guy who literally believes the difference in quality between DVD and Blu-ray is negligible and who is literally defending nitnendo's actions in this case. Nice.
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Vlado posted... Says the guy who literally believes the difference in quality between DVD and Blu-ray is negligible and who is literally defending nitnendo's actions in this case. Nice.
Point one: Bringing up something irrelevant I can't even remember if I ever said on a topic I haven't even touched on in years. Point two: No, I'm criticising Nintendo of America. You're just seeing what you want to see. I did call for some separation between Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Japan, who are responsible for the game even existing, and Nintendo of Europe, who are doing a damn good job with the localisation. Only NoA is at fault here.
I will say that Liquid Wind's "waaaah why do people still like Nintendo" thing is ridiculous though. It's simple. Because whether or not these games get brought over, they still like other games they make, probably more so. Really, if it's a choice between "some games, not all" and "no games", which would you pick?
Not defending their actions, but come on, that's completely nonsensical.
Now no, I'm not saying do nothing. But that's an approach that only hurts the fans. If I were American I would absolutely keep fighting for this, but I wouldn't go "oh well, I'll never play another Nintendo game again, they suck as a whole".
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outside of maybe two of their studios nintendo is nothing special as a developer anymore, I guess I can see the logic there if you really loooooove wii fit, animal crossing, nintendogs, wii sports, mario kart etc or something, but nintendo isn't putting much out for most people that have been playing games for a long time
From: pjbasis | #102 What kind of budget did those games have? HMH is a PSP game if I recall, and the other is an arcade shooter? I don't think it's comparable to one of the biggest looking jrpgs.
You're acting like Xenoblade isn't getting made regardless of whether it comes to America. All that money they spent making it "one of the biggest looking jrpgs"? They already ****ing spent it.
honestly iwata should be verbally punching reggie in the face at this point for damaging the brand, but NoA has been terrible going back to the 90s so we can only assume NCL is happy enough with them or simply doesn't care
RevolverSaro posted... Not sure what the numbers were, but it was enough to push Xenoblade to #1 on Amazon.
For a day or two. All told, it may have only been a surge of 10k preorders or some such, and that's not enough to make the venture that enticing. Don't get me wrong, I think Nintendo is screwing up royally by not at least trying, but I also don't think that the numbers they are looking at (and that we never get to see) are telling them they absolutely have to jump on this opportunity.
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By the way... Pandora's Tower shouldn't be placed on the same level as Xenoblade and Last Story >_>
I mean I enjoyed what I played of the game, though the timelimit crap really pissed me off at least once (though to be fair, I don't understand Japanese, so maybe if I did I understood it I wouldn't have gotten that time limit gameover).
Xenoblade >> The Last Story >>>>>> Pandora's Tower
If Nintendo thought they could make a profit they'd release it, and board 8 obviously has more information and better cost/margin analysis skills than nintendo.
ITT everyone but CM being silly
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From: Samurai7 | #117 If Nintendo thought they could make a profit they'd release it, and board 8 obviously has more information and better cost/margin analysis skills than nintendo.
ITT everyone but CM being silly
Because every company makes good financial/PR decisions.
Bad financial decision or not, this has been a PR disaster for Nintendo.
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obviously no one with actual knowledge of the costs and marketability would have done i-
michaelpachter Michael Pachter I agree that Nintendo should localize Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower for the American market @oprainfall 15 hours ago
People might not like British accents as much as American ones, but the British version of The Office was still released on DVD here and shown on cable, so I'm not sure what the point of that is? I think most well received British products have still been released in America in some format.
Secondly, I agree with the sentiment that I don't get the whole "This game has to sell 100,000 copies to justify its release." The making of the game and the localization has already been done. How much money would Nintendo be spending on release in the United States? Movies get released all the time that probably see less than 100,000 people see them in the theaters, and video games cost way more than movie tickets. If not I don't see why some smaller company couldn't just release it instead. It's not like you need advertising to release the game. I don't go around seeing advertisements for the DVD of Dogtooth everywhere, but that never stopped someone from releasing it.
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"Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!"--Kefka Black Turtle beat me, Yesmar in the Fall 2010 Guru Contest!
I don't think translation is the only component to a localization process. There's also manufacturing, shipping, distribution, and marketing, and losing money in exchange rates. Hey I think the game looks sweet and hope it comes out, but it really does need to sell well.
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Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.
it isn't the only component of localization, but that other stuff is the logistical side of getting the game out, in terms of game development, the actual software, they basically have a completed game on their hands that they're just sitting on.
Secondly, I agree with the sentiment that I don't get the whole "This game has to sell 100,000 copies to justify its release." The making of the game and the localization has already been done. How much money would Nintendo be spending on release in the United States? Movies get released all the time that probably see less than 100,000 people see them in the theaters, and video games cost way more than movie tickets. If not I don't see why some smaller company couldn't just release it instead. It's not like you need advertising to release the game. I don't go around seeing advertisements for the DVD of Dogtooth everywhere, but that never stopped someone from releasing it.
Movies and games are very different. The movie industry purposely puts money into artsy movies for the health of the industry. Gaming cuts out those types of things, usually. I would hesitate to compare the two in this way.
How much money do you think it would cost to bring a game over here and market it, how much would Nintendo want to make on it, and how much would they lose sending money back to Japan?
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Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.
There's manufacturing and shipping costs as well, but that's true for cheap bottom of the barrel DVDs and those still get released. Of course it'd probably cost slightly more to do this with a video game, but video games cost more as well.
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"Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!"--Kefka Black Turtle beat me, Yesmar in the Fall 2010 Guru Contest!
Movies and games are very different. The movie industry purposely puts money into artsy movies for the health of the industry. Gaming cuts out those types of things, usually. I would hesitate to compare the two in this way.
How much money do you think it would cost to bring a game over here and market it, how much would Nintendo want to make on it, and how much would they lose sending money back to Japan?
The game industry should put more money into artsy games. I don't disagree that they don't at this point though. But it's not just artsy movies that get released like this. There's plenty of crap that gets released on DVD all the time.
Nintendo wouldn't have to market the game too much. Not any more so a film company does when they re-release a classic film on DVD or something. They wouldn't have to lose any money, although how much they make would be up for question. I understand why Nintendo doesn't want to release the game, but considering they already have it translated, I'm not sure what they have to lose.
Or any company really, not just Nintendo.
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"Ahem! There is *sand* on my *boot*!"--Kefka Black Turtle beat me, Yesmar in the Fall 2010 Guru Contest!
Movies and games are very different. The movie industry purposely puts money into artsy movies for the health of the industry. Gaming cuts out those types of things, usually. I would hesitate to compare the two in this way.
I think in any industry it can be healthy to take a short loss or barely break even if it keeps your constituents happy. lets say this game can't profit, it is a 100% given that it will lose money. so nintendo doesn't release it and...pisses off thousands of fans who then decide not to buy future nintendo games and consoles. ok ultimately this isn't hugely damaging to nintendo as the hardcore gaming market isn't their target audience to begin with anymore, they've moved on and had more success with a different sector... -but- it is still potentially costing them future sales that would make up for losses on xenoblade and then some, and futher re-enforcing the image that nintendo isn't for core gamers, it's damaging the brand even to people who aren't interested in these games. nintendo now has firm control over the family/casual portion of the market, they could dominate on an entirely other level if they could actually get core gamers back the way iwata and reggie talked about at E3. but with these actions, we can see that those were just empty words, the third party support they're actually aiming for with the U is for brocore titles, they think all we want is CoD and madden -_-
Liquid Wind posted... Movies and games are very different. The movie industry purposely puts money into artsy movies for the health of the industry. Gaming cuts out those types of things, usually. I would hesitate to compare the two in this way.
I think in any industry it can be healthy to take a short loss or barely break even if it keeps your constituents happy. lets say this game can't profit, it is a 100% given that it will lose money. so nintendo doesn't release it and...pisses off thousands of fans who then decide not to buy future nintendo games and consoles. ok ultimately this isn't hugely damaging to nintendo as the hardcore gaming market isn't their target audience to begin with anymore, they've moved on and had more success with a different sector... -but- it is still potentially costing them future sales that would make up for losses on xenoblade and then some, and futher re-enforcing the image that nintendo isn't for core gamers, it's damaging the brand even to people who aren't interested in these games
I don't disagree but that's not typically how the gaming industry works.
I'm far from defending Nintendo here. I guess I'll just say that if I had to guess, NoA would probably prefer to release this game as a Wii U title instead of a Wii title. If they are smart, they throw it back and add in some menu options on that stupid touch pad and now you have a B+ RPG (from the looks of it) that uses the new features.
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Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.
On the one hand, not a single one of you in this topic have any reason or authority to claim that Xenoblade would break any amount of sales. You are not analysts. You cannot justify the release of this game and your decisions based on "COME ON DUDES JRPG #126 SOLD 100k AND IT WAS TERRIBLE." You're not proving anything with statements like this other than the fact that you have no idea how to do business.
On the other hand, I hate to see game companies not even take a chance any more, and from the look of things, this wouldn't be the biggest risk in the world. There's clearly potential here that they're choosing to ignore. Besides, I'd hate to put Nintendo on my "Companies I am officially done with list" alongside Capcom for pulling the same crap that they did. Nintendo talks about targeting the core with Wii U, but this move makes me skeptical about the whole thing. Is aiming at the core about third party titles that will make you lots of money, or is it about third party titles that are outstanding that you may have to market better or take chances with?
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In the hands of a competent company, Xenoblade is an easy sell. It won't be a million seller, but it would be worth localizing. It's an appealing game on a console devoid of competition - Nintendo or otherwise. It isn't going to make much difference to their bottom line one way or the other, but it's a goodwill move after an outpouring of support for the game. Most companies would play off that, but well, it's Nintendo. Maybe they have Wii Babies planned instead.
'on one hand, a thought. on the other, something certainly independent of the first thought.' that's not a conflict. you can easily raise both points, as you did, without any real issue. neither point really competes or contrasts with the other.
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Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.
eh someone said it wouldn't sell more than 30k copies, the response has been that other jRPGs have sold more. I don't see why that is unreasonable, especially considering jRPG fans won't follow the same route casual fans do. Unless you think other jRPG sales are comprised heavily of casual fans.
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Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.
Clearly you need glasses or better reading comprehension.
I disagree with the "grr, xenoblade would sell because x" notion coming from people who don't know a damn thing about anything, but I still would like to see this game in the US and think it sucks that NoA isn't giving it even a remote chance.
Now shut up.
-- I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo Now this is entertainment!
I disagree with the "grr, xenoblade would sell because x" notion coming from people who don't know a damn thing about anything, but I still would like to see this game in the US and think it sucks that NoA isn't giving it even a remote chance.
I disagree with the "grr, xenoblade would sell because x" notion coming from people who don't know a damn thing about anything, but I still would like to see this game in the US and think it sucks that NoA isn't giving it even a remote chance.
I think it's fair to say that people know a damn thing about something. And hey, if you look at sales data for similar jRPGs, you can even make an- informed opinion about the issue! None of us are sales analysts, but that doesn't mean we can't hold reasonably well-supported opinions on the issue.
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