Board 8 > Worst Video Game Story Cliche?

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2, 3
plasmabeam 05/22/22 9:49:49 AM #1:	Which cliche do you hate most? Amnesia Character who joins, leaves, joins, leaves, and joins your party again Choices that don't matter Dead character gets resurrected "Let's split up, even though it's smarter to stick together!" Power of Friendship Silent Protagonist Unstoppable Hero Until there's a cutscene Villain hellbent on World Domination Other (Specify) Which cliche do you hate most? - Results (175 votes) Amnesia 10.29% (18 votes) 18 Character who joins, leaves, joins, leaves, and joins your party again 5.71% (10 votes) 10 Choices that don't matter 34.86% (61 votes) 61 Dead character gets resurrected 6.29% (11 votes) 11 "Let's split up, even though it's smarter to stick together!" 4.57% (8 votes) 8 Power of Friendship 9.14% (16 votes) 16 Silent Protagonist 12% (21 votes) 21 Unstoppable Hero Until there's a cutscene 12% (21 votes) 21 Villain hellbent on World Domination 2.29% (4 votes) 4 Other (Specify) 2.86% (5 votes) 5 Be sure to mark for SPOILERS when appropriate. Here are some others that I almost included in the poll: Samus Syndrome: Hero loses weapons/armor/etc. at beginning of a sequel Mutated Villains Villain sits around waiting for hero to reach the Throne Room Villains that never die despite being killed repeatedly Impractically clothed characters Needing a key to unlock a door/gate that can be destroyed/jumped over --- ~Jacksonville Jaguars~ <cite>plasmabeam posted [p:965220223] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote> Which cliche do you hate most? Amnesia Character who joins, leaves, joins, leaves, and joins your party again Choices that don't matter Dead character gets resurrected "Let's split up, even though it's smarter to stick together!" Power of Friendship Silent Protagonist Unstoppable Hero Until there's a cutscene Villain hellbent on World Domination Other (Specify) Vote View Results Which cliche do you hate most? - Results (175 votes) Amnesia 10.29% (18 votes) 18 Character who joins, leaves, joins, leaves, and joins your party again 5.71% (10 votes) 10 Choices that don't matter 34.86% (61 votes) 61 Dead character gets resurrected 6.29% (11 votes) 11 "Let's split up, even though it's smarter to stick together!" 4.57% (8 votes) 8 Power of Friendship 9.14% (16 votes) 16 Silent Protagonist 12% (21 votes) 21 Unstoppable Hero Until there's a cutscene 12% (21 votes) 21 Villain hellbent on World Domination 2.29% (4 votes) 4 Other (Specify) 2.86% (5 votes) 5 Show Voting Form function poll_vote() { var vote_option = $("input[name='poll_vote']:checked").val(); if(!vote_option) return; $.ajax({ type: 'POST', url: '/ajax/forum_poll_vote', data: { option: vote_option, board: '8', topic: '80029866', message: '0', key: 'fea2bf02' }, success: function(response) { if(response.error) { alert(response.error); } else { $("#poll_vote").hide(); $("#poll_results").html(response.html).show(); } } }); } function view_results_legacy() { $("#poll_vote").hide(); $("#poll_results").show(); } function hide_results_legacy() { $("#poll_results").hide(); $("#poll_vote").show(); } Be sure to mark for SPOILERS when appropriate. Here are some others that I almost included in the poll: Samus Syndrome: Hero loses weapons/armor/etc. at beginning of a sequel Mutated VillainsVillain sits around waiting for hero to reach the Throne RoomVillains that never die despite being killed repeatedlyImpractically clothed characters Needing a key to unlock a door/gate that can be destroyed/jumped over</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cavedweller2000 05/22/22 10:02:03 AM #2:	Easily silent protagonist for me --- Well done to azuarc for finishing 67 places above me in the 2020 GOTD Guru Contest! <cite>Cavedweller2000 posted [p:965220383] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Easily silent protagonist for me </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BetrayedTangy 05/22/22 10:14:54 AM #3:	I don't know if I would count 'Choices Don't Matter' as a cliche as much as it is just bad game design. --- https://www.backloggery.com/betrayedtangerin <cite>BetrayedTangy posted [p:965220568] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>I don't know if I would count 'Choices Don't Matter' as a cliche as much as it is just bad game design. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Isquen 05/22/22 10:23:35 AM #4:	"Choices don't matter" is the biggest reason Mass Effect 3 was the shitshow it was. I voted for that, but would consider an "improperly dressed" option. Not a fan of chainmail bikini tanks or giant mascot suits in deserts somehow not dying of heat exhaustion (although it would explain Rikku's FFX-2 brain atrophy.) --- [Earthshaker] <cite>Isquen posted [p:965220690] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>"Choices don't matter" is the biggest reason Mass Effect 3 was the shitshow it was. I voted for that, but would consider an "improperly dressed" option. Not a fan of chainmail bikini tanks or giant mascot suits in deserts somehow not dying of heat exhaustion (although it would explain Rikku's FFX-2 brain atrophy.) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hylianknight3 05/22/22 10:45:51 AM #5:	Choices that dont matter out of the poll options, but I would have voted for the clothing option if it was there. --- The azuarc of the contest universe is long, but it bends toward Guruship. <cite>hylianknight3 posted [p:965221047] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Choices that dont matter out of the poll options, but I would have voted for the clothing option if it was there. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
colliding 05/22/22 10:50:46 AM #6:	I don't consider silent protag to be a "cliche" so much as a structural game design decision. anyway I chose choices don't matter --- while you slept, the world changed <cite>colliding posted [p:965221125] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>I don't consider silent protag to be a "cliche" so much as a structural game design decision. anyway I chose choices don't matter </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BlueCrystalTear 05/22/22 10:57:35 AM #7:	Ordering from most obnoxious to least.... Choices that don't matter Yeah, this is obnoxious. You build up this choice mechanic only for its results to be insignificant. Saints Row The Third is very guilty of this, with only the choice of ending actually mattering. If you're gonna have choices, at minimum make it so they affect which ending(s) you can get AND having different perks unlock. Silent Protagonist This isn't the 2D era anymore. Silent protagonists just don't work these days since self-inserting is a flawed psychological concept. I don't mind it with Link because we know how cringe he is when he's talked, but with everyone around the protagonist gabbing it up, silence doesn't make any sense. Unstoppable Hero Until there's a cutscene This one's pretty problematic. A cutscene just to neuter the badass is just dumb, often because there's some lame excuse made up on the spot just to do it. These stories need to be realistic within the confines of their reality. This trope is a MASSIVE sigh every time. Power of Friendship I don't see this one that often anymore because it was done to death and enough people complained that it was stale. Back in the day, however, it was SO annoying. The few times it worked were because it wasn't a focal point at all, and was just "If we work together, we can do anything" subtext despite a party with a lot of infighting. Dead character gets resurrected This depends on how cheap the resurrection is. "Oh, I miraculously survived!" is dumb unless the character is a rat and you get to actually kill them later. Going out of the way to "kill off" a character just to go "HA HA GOT U" is bad. But then there are things like Persona 4 (can't not name the game here - if you played it, you know what I'm talking about) where it's ~~done beautifully as emotional fuel and actually makes sense in the medical environment~~. Villain hellbent on World Domination Sometimes this is the best kind of villain for the story. Other times it isn't, and having a "HA HA HA I AM BIG BAD I DO BIG BAD THINGS" villain for the sake of one (coughVesperiacough) does not work. Character who joins, leaves, joins, leaves, and joins your party again I really only mind this if it's my favorite character to use or if it happens all the freakin' time through needless cutscenes that seem to just exist to pad game length. Amnesia Not bad if done correctly. Ace Attorney case 2-1, for example, used it effectively as a tutorial (not a spoiler: It happens first thing in the game), and made it hilarious. It can also be good if it's just a small side plot device. It's hit-or-miss and games that don't do it right tend to do other things wrong too. "Let's split up, even though it's smarter to stick together!" Can't say this is that annoying because I don't see it that often, and when I do it's only brief. --- BlueCrystalTear \| You're living your own life. You're you. #FearTheDeer \| ((FREE HUGS)) <cite>BlueCrystalTear posted [p:965221226] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Ordering from most obnoxious to least.... Choices that don't matter Yeah, this is obnoxious. You build up this choice mechanic only for its results to be insignificant. Saints Row The Third is very guilty of this, with only the choice of ending actually mattering. If you're gonna have choices, at minimum make it so they affect which ending(s) you can get AND having different perks unlock. Silent Protagonist This isn't the 2D era anymore. Silent protagonists just don't work these days since self-inserting is a flawed psychological concept. I don't mind it with Link because we know how cringe he is when he's talked, but with everyone around the protagonist gabbing it up, silence doesn't make any sense. Unstoppable Hero Until there's a cutscene This one's pretty problematic. A cutscene just to neuter the badass is just dumb, often because there's some lame excuse made up on the spot just to do it. These stories need to be realistic within the confines of their reality. This trope is a MASSIVE sigh every time. Power of Friendship I don't see this one that often anymore because it was done to death and enough people complained that it was stale. Back in the day, however, it was SO annoying. The few times it worked were because it wasn't a focal point at all, and was just "If we work together, we can do anything" subtext despite a party with a lot of infighting. Dead character gets resurrected This depends on how cheap the resurrection is. "Oh, I miraculously survived!" is dumb unless the character is a rat and you get to actually kill them later. Going out of the way to "kill off" a character just to go "HA HA GOT U" is bad. But then there are things like Persona 4 (can't not name the game here - if you played it, you know what I'm talking about) where it's done beautifully as emotional fuel and actually makes sense in the medical environment. Villain hellbent on World Domination Sometimes this is the best kind of villain for the story. Other times it isn't, and having a "HA HA HA I AM BIG BAD I DO BIG BAD THINGS" villain for the sake of one (coughVesperiacough) does not work. Character who joins, leaves, joins, leaves, and joins your party again I really only mind this if it's my favorite character to use or if it happens all the freakin' time through needless cutscenes that seem to just exist to pad game length. Amnesia Not bad if done correctly. Ace Attorney case 2-1, for example, used it effectively as a tutorial (not a spoiler: It happens first thing in the game), and made it hilarious. It can also be good if it's just a small side plot device. It's hit-or-miss and games that don't do it right tend to do other things wrong too. "Let's split up, even though it's smarter to stick together!" Can't say this is that annoying because I don't see it that often, and when I do it's only brief. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Luis_Sera89 05/22/22 10:59:06 AM #8:	My biggest pet peeve is when character idiocy/obviously incorrect decision making is used as justification for the story taking a non-optimal direction or gameplay padding (i.e. Half the shit Ryuji and/or Ann cause in Persona 5, or pretty much any plot point in FE Fates: Conquest) --- "Eet's game time..." https://soundcloud.com/luissera/intro/s-VvkMJ <cite>Luis_Sera89 posted [p:965221250] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>My biggest pet peeve is when character idiocy/obviously incorrect decision making is used as justification for the story taking a non-optimal direction or gameplay padding (i.e. Half the shit Ryuji and/or Ann cause in Persona 5, or pretty much any plot point in FE Fates: Conquest) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BlueCrystalTear 05/22/22 11:07:45 AM #9:	Luis_Sera89 posted... Half the shit Ryuji and/or Ann cause in Persona 5 you didn't mention ~~Kitty going rogue with Haru~~ why? That's by far the worst example of "idiocy being used to advance the plot in a bad way" in P5. --- BlueCrystalTear \| You're living your own life. You're you. #FearTheDeer \| ((FREE HUGS)) <cite>BlueCrystalTear posted [p:965221386] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Luis_Sera89 posted... </cite> <quote>Half the shit Ryuji and/or Ann cause in Persona 5</quote>you didn't mention Kitty going rogue with Haru why? That's by far the worst example of "idiocy being used to advance the plot in a bad way" in P5. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WazzupGenius00 05/22/22 11:14:02 AM #10:	Villain who is defeated/sees the error of their way and immediately dies protecting the protagonist --- http://i.imgur.com/k0v0z3q.gif <cite>WazzupGenius00 posted [p:965221490] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Villain who is defeated/sees the error of their way and immediately dies protecting the protagonist </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 05/22/22 11:51:21 AM #11:	Other: defeating an enemy in gameplay only for it to play a cutscene after showing the enemy getting the upper hand on you anyway --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:965222132] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Other: defeating an enemy in gameplay only for it to play a cutscene after showing the enemy getting the upper hand on you anyway </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 05/22/22 12:17:49 PM #12:	i legit don't mind most of these and actively welcome them. i dislike choices that don't matter though --- yet all azuarc of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:965222507] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>i legit don't mind most of these and actively welcome them. i dislike choices that don't matter though</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paperwarior 05/22/22 12:19:35 PM #13:	It was all a dream --- "God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto <cite>paperwarior posted [p:965222543] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>It was all a dream </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Xeybozn 05/22/22 12:44:52 PM #14:	Johnbobb posted... Other: defeating an enemy in gameplay only for it to play a cutscene after showing the enemy getting the upper hand on you anyway But you have to win the fight anyway for no reason. --- Congrats to 2020 GotD Guru champ azuarc! <cite>Xeybozn posted [p:965222974] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Johnbobb posted... </cite> <quote>Other: defeating an enemy in gameplay only for it to play a cutscene after showing the enemy getting the upper hand on you anyway</quote>But you have to win the fight anyway for no reason. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pjbasis 05/22/22 1:18:06 PM #15:	BlueCrystalTear posted... Silent protagonists just don't work these days since self-inserting is a flawed psychological concept. lol what --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/B8%20Girls%202012/pjbas.png <cite>pjbasis posted [p:965223574] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>BlueCrystalTear posted... </cite> <quote>Silent protagonists just don't work these days since self-inserting is a flawed psychological concept.</quote> lol what </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 05/22/22 2:02:33 PM #16:	I don't really understand the point of silent protagonists now, especially in games with voice acting. It just feels stilted and awkward when everyone is talking except for one person and it's supposedly the main character. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:965224477] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>I don't really understand the point of silent protagonists now, especially in games with voice acting. It just feels stilted and awkward when everyone is talking except for one person and it's supposedly the main character. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pjbasis 05/22/22 2:03:30 PM #17:	Sure, but Shepard is still a self-insert. And if you weren't responding to me directly I would mostly agree except there's plenty of games that it still works for, especially if the character was just going to be a "Link" anyway and just do Lawful Good things all the time. (although botw gives him more personality offscreen apparantly so maybe not a great example anymore) --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/B8%20Girls%202012/pjbas.png <cite>pjbasis posted [p:965224493] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Sure, but Shepard is still a self-insert. And if you weren't responding to me directly I would mostly agree except there's plenty of games that it still works for, especially if the character was just going to be a "Link" anyway and just do Lawful Good things all the time. (although botw gives him more personality offscreen apparantly so maybe not a great example anymore) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
plasmabeam 05/22/22 2:04:35 PM #18:	BlueCrystalTear posted... Power of Friendship I don't see this one that often anymore because it was done to death and enough people complained that it was stale. Back in the day, however, it was SO annoying. The few times it worked were because it wasn't a focal point at all, and was just "If we work together, we can do anything" subtext despite a party with a lot of infighting. Yeah, I'm fine with this when it's understated, like when Han saves Luke at the end of A New Hope. The problem I have with it is when it's on-the-nose (Kingdom Hearts, Tales of Graces f, Sonic Adventure, Paper Mario) WazzupGenius00 posted... Villain who is defeated/sees the error of their way and immediately dies protecting the protagonist I actually like this one when there's some time for it to settle. But like you said, when it's immediate or rushed, it comes off as phony. Johnbobb posted... Other: defeating an enemy in gameplay only for it to play a cutscene after showing the enemy getting the upper hand on you anyway Xeybozn posted... But you have to win the fight anyway for no reason. "Unwinnable Battles" are awful. Glad you brought this up. The worst is when you fight a boss without getting hit once and this shit still happens. paperwarior posted... It was all a dream In most cases, yes. I can think of a certain survival horror series that pulls it off well. --- ~Jacksonville Jaguars~ <cite>plasmabeam posted [p:965224513] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>BlueCrystalTear posted... </cite> <quote>Power of Friendship I don't see this one that often anymore because it was done to death and enough people complained that it was stale. Back in the day, however, it was SO annoying. The few times it worked were because it wasn't a focal point at all, and was just "If we work together, we can do anything" subtext despite a party with a lot of infighting.</quote> Yeah, I'm fine with this when it's understated, like when Han saves Luke at the end of A New Hope. The problem I have with it is when it's on-the-nose (Kingdom Hearts, Tales of Graces f, Sonic Adventure, Paper Mario) WazzupGenius00 posted... </cite> <quote>Villain who is defeated/sees the error of their way and immediately dies protecting the protagonist</quote> I actually like this one when there's some time for it to settle. But like you said, when it's immediate or rushed, it comes off as phony. Johnbobb posted... </cite> <quote>Other: defeating an enemy in gameplay only for it to play a cutscene after showing the enemy getting the upper hand on you anyway</quote>Xeybozn posted... </cite> <quote>But you have to win the fight anyway for no reason.</quote> "Unwinnable Battles" are awful. Glad you brought this up. The worst is when you fight a boss without getting hit once and this shit still happens. paperwarior posted... </cite> <quote>It was all a dream</quote> In most cases, yes. I can think of a certain survival horror series that pulls it off well. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anagram 05/22/22 2:06:17 PM #19:	No final boss with multiple forms? --- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005 <cite>Anagram posted [p:965224547] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>No final boss with multiple forms? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pjbasis 05/22/22 2:07:28 PM #20:	Anagram posted... No final boss with multiple forms? only bad tropes here --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/B8%20Girls%202012/pjbas.png <cite>pjbasis posted [p:965224586] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Anagram posted... </cite> <quote>No final boss with multiple forms?</quote> only bad tropes here </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
plasmabeam 05/22/22 2:07:36 PM #21:	Leonhart4 posted... I don't really understand the point of silent protagonists now, especially in games with voice acting. It just feels stilted and awkward when everyone is talking except for one person and it's supposedly the main character. I voted Silent Protagonists because I hate how it robs the protagonist of agency and character. Instead of the protag contributing ideas and pushing for a course of action (and weighing the potential consequences), the protag just stands around while the supporting cast debates everything until the "Yes/No" dialogue option pops up. --- ~Jacksonville Jaguars~ <cite>plasmabeam posted [p:965224589] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Leonhart4 posted... </cite> <quote>I don't really understand the point of silent protagonists now, especially in games with voice acting. It just feels stilted and awkward when everyone is talking except for one person and it's supposedly the main character.</quote> I voted Silent Protagonists because I hate how it robs the protagonist of agency and character. Instead of the protag contributing ideas and pushing for a course of action (and weighing the potential consequences), the protag just stands around while the supporting cast debates everything until the "Yes/No" dialogue option pops up. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Strife2 05/22/22 2:38:16 PM #22:	I loathe Silent Protagonists. I want a game to give me a reason to invest in a story. The best way to do that is craft a character that goes through a change, or sees change around them and reacts to it. DQXI gives Luminary so much fucking stuff, but it all feels flat. All he does is nod or scream. What is his relationship with Jade, Erik, Serena, etc? What does HE really think about them? Why does Adol keep getting his dumbass into shipwrecks and fantasy shenanigans? The latest Ys games have had DOGI tell us this stuff, instead of giving us the most basic reasoning. Even if Adol was just doing snarky shit, at least he'd say it. At least he'd sound like a sort of Zidane meets Link dork. But he'd at least have drive and motivation. That would translate to me actually thinking he wants to be there or finish the plot. Instead, they kind of throw 3-4 voiced lines per game and call it a day... Crono? What about Crono? ~~He dies midway through the game, but he's a stick. Why the fuck should I care?The game didn't give me anything to suggest he wants to save the worldother than the game forcing it on me.~~ Persona is the worst. In a game where a lot of it revolves around relationships, what reason do we have to suggest that Minato, Narukami, or Joker are these leaders/charismatic people that anyone would give a shit about? Social Links revolve around telling girls or other characters what they want to hear. You can still pull this off with actual dialogue (look at FF7's relationship system). But enough about the silent protagonist issue. Any game that still does random encounters...fuck off. Recent remasters give the player choice to turn them off. Other games like FF6 and FF8 had items that cut them off. Bravely Default letting you just not use them at all was probably the best, though that was 10 years ago. Random encounters still happen from time to time, but at least they aren't the horror it used to be. Still, player choice should be a QoL option. --- "Evening caress, Always yearning, I must confess, The stars aren't burning" Copernicus - Candlemass <cite>Strife2 posted [p:965225266] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>I loathe Silent Protagonists. I want a game to give me a reason to invest in a story. The best way to do that is craft a character that goes through a change, or sees change around them and reacts to it. DQXI gives Luminary so much fucking stuff, but it all feels flat. All he does is nod or scream. What is his relationship with Jade, Erik, Serena, etc? What does HE really think about them? Why does Adol keep getting his dumbass into shipwrecks and fantasy shenanigans? The latest Ys games have had DOGI tell us this stuff, instead of giving us the most basic reasoning. Even if Adol was just doing snarky shit, at least he'd say it. At least he'd sound like a sort of Zidane meets Link dork. But he'd at least have drive and motivation. That would translate to me actually thinking he wants to be there or finish the plot. Instead, they kind of throw 3-4 voiced lines per game and call it a day... Crono? What about Crono? He dies midway through the game, but he's a stick. Why the fuck should I care?The game didn't give me anything to suggest he wants to save the worldother than the game forcing it on me. Persona is the worst. In a game where a lot of it revolves around relationships, what reason do we have to suggest that Minato, Narukami, or Joker are these leaders/charismatic people that anyone would give a shit about? Social Links revolve around telling girls or other characters what they want to hear. You can still pull this off with actual dialogue (look at FF7's relationship system). But enough about the silent protagonist issue. Any game that still does random encounters...fuck off. Recent remasters give the player choice to turn them off. Other games like FF6 and FF8 had items that cut them off. Bravely Default letting you just not use them at all was probably the best, though that was 10 years ago. Random encounters still happen from time to time, but at least they aren't the horror it used to be. Still, player choice should be a QoL option. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
demonfang178 05/22/22 2:41:19 PM #23:	Other: you and your party have to collect some mcguffins and the bad guys somehow end up stealing them anyway. Even moreso if the mcguffins are useless unless you have all of them. But silent protag is a close second. Get that crap outta here. <cite>demonfang178 posted [p:965225330] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Other: you and your party have to collect some mcguffins and the bad guys somehow end up stealing them anyway. Even moreso if the mcguffins are useless unless you have all of them. But silent protag is a close second. Get that crap outta here. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 05/22/22 2:44:50 PM #24:	Anime Narukami is one of the main reasons I wish Persona would stop having silent protags because he's amazing. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:965225397] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Anime Narukami is one of the main reasons I wish Persona would stop having silent protags because he's amazing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Strife2 05/22/22 2:49:05 PM #25:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb0afDCmW3g --- "Evening caress, Always yearning, I must confess, The stars aren't burning" Copernicus - Candlemass <cite>Strife2 posted [p:965225490] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb0afDCmW3g </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
plasmabeam 05/22/22 3:19:47 PM #26:	Strife2 posted... I loathe Silent Protagonists. I want a game to give me a reason to invest in a story. The best way to do that is craft a character that goes through a change, or sees change around them and reacts to it. DQXI gives Luminary so much fucking stuff, but it all feels flat. All he does is nod or scream. What is his relationship with Jade, Erik, Serena, etc? What does HE really think about them? Why does Adol keep getting his dumbass into shipwrecks and fantasy shenanigans? The latest Ys games have had DOGI tell us this stuff, instead of giving us the most basic reasoning. Even if Adol was just doing snarky shit, at least he'd say it. At least he'd sound like a sort of Zidane meets Link dork. But he'd at least have drive and motivation. That would translate to me actually thinking he wants to be there or finish the plot. Instead, they kind of throw 3-4 voiced lines per game and call it a day... Crono? What about Crono? ~~He dies midway through the game, but he's a stick. Why the fuck should I care?The game didn't give me anything to suggest he wants to save the worldother than the game forcing it on me.~~ Persona is the worst. In a game where a lot of it revolves around relationships, what reason do we have to suggest that Minato, Narukami, or Joker are these leaders/charismatic people that anyone would give a shit about? Social Links revolve around telling girls or other characters what they want to hear. You can still pull this off with actual dialogue (look at FF7's relationship system). But enough about the silent protagonist issue. Any game that still does random encounters...fuck off. Recent remasters give the player choice to turn them off. Other games like FF6 and FF8 had items that cut them off. Bravely Default letting you just not use them at all was probably the best, though that was 10 years ago. Random encounters still happen from time to time, but at least they aren't the horror it used to be. Still, player choice should be a QoL option. Great post, especially the Crono part. Only thing I disagree with if your final paragraph because I don't consider random encounters a story trope. --- ~Jacksonville Jaguars~ <cite>plasmabeam posted [p:965226066] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Strife2 posted... </cite> <quote>I loathe Silent Protagonists. I want a game to give me a reason to invest in a story. The best way to do that is craft a character that goes through a change, or sees change around them and reacts to it. DQXI gives Luminary so much fucking stuff, but it all feels flat. All he does is nod or scream. What is his relationship with Jade, Erik, Serena, etc? What does HE really think about them? Why does Adol keep getting his dumbass into shipwrecks and fantasy shenanigans? The latest Ys games have had DOGI tell us this stuff, instead of giving us the most basic reasoning. Even if Adol was just doing snarky shit, at least he'd say it. At least he'd sound like a sort of Zidane meets Link dork. But he'd at least have drive and motivation. That would translate to me actually thinking he wants to be there or finish the plot. Instead, they kind of throw 3-4 voiced lines per game and call it a day... Crono? What about Crono? He dies midway through the game, but he's a stick. Why the fuck should I care?The game didn't give me anything to suggest he wants to save the worldother than the game forcing it on me. Persona is the worst. In a game where a lot of it revolves around relationships, what reason do we have to suggest that Minato, Narukami, or Joker are these leaders/charismatic people that anyone would give a shit about? Social Links revolve around telling girls or other characters what they want to hear. You can still pull this off with actual dialogue (look at FF7's relationship system). But enough about the silent protagonist issue. Any game that still does random encounters...fuck off. Recent remasters give the player choice to turn them off. Other games like FF6 and FF8 had items that cut them off. Bravely Default letting you just not use them at all was probably the best, though that was 10 years ago. Random encounters still happen from time to time, but at least they aren't the horror it used to be. Still, player choice should be a QoL option.</quote> Great post, especially the Crono part. Only thing I disagree with if your final paragraph because I don't consider random encounters a story trope. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KCF0107 05/22/22 3:48:51 PM #27:	There are a couple here mentioned in posts but not in the poll that could have gotten my vote like character idiocy and multi-form bosses (though the latter typically has minimal story implications in my history), but I fucking hate amnesia because for every time that it is merely adequately used, there are at least a dozen that aren't. --- KCF can't actually be a real person but he is - greengravy <cite>KCF0107 posted [p:965226595] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>There are a couple here mentioned in posts but not in the poll that could have gotten my vote like character idiocy and multi-form bosses (though the latter typically has minimal story implications in my history), but I fucking hate amnesia because for every time that it is merely adequately used, there are at least a dozen that aren't.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jakyl25 05/22/22 3:49:53 PM #28:	plasmabeam posted... Yeah, I'm fine with this when it's understated, like when Han saves Luke at the end of A New Hope. The problem I have with it is when it's on-the-nose (Kingdom Hearts, Tales of Graces f, Sonic Adventure, Paper Mario) Yeah, when the relationships made along the journey pay off in a meaningful way its great When it is literally a mystical power of friendship LOL --- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRlKR5nU8AA_v_C?format=jpg&name=large <cite>Jakyl25 posted [p:965226613] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>plasmabeam posted... </cite> <quote>Yeah, I'm fine with this when it's understated, like when Han saves Luke at the end of A New Hope. The problem I have with it is when it's on-the-nose (Kingdom Hearts, Tales of Graces f, Sonic Adventure, Paper Mario)</quote> Yeah, when the relationships made along the journey pay off in a meaningful way its great When it is literally a mystical power of friendship LOL </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Camden 05/22/22 4:05:46 PM #29:	I hate whenever the big bad, who has made it clear throughout the entire game that they want to destroy all of existence and will stop at nothing to do so, is essentially stopped when you get some key item that they need for their plans. So of course they kidnap the girl, and of course you absolutely give them that key item that allows them to destroy all of existence in exchange for her like she's not going to die with everyone else now that he has what he wants. Good job, hero, you fucking killed everyone. To be fair, this cliche isn't really contained to just games. --- Huh? Finger!? What the hell? <cite>Camden posted [p:965226903] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>I hate whenever the big bad, who has made it clear throughout the entire game that they want to destroy all of existence and will stop at nothing to do so, is essentially stopped when you get some key item that they need for their plans. So of course they kidnap the girl, and of course you absolutely give them that key item that allows them to destroy all of existence in exchange for her like she's not going to die with everyone else now that he has what he wants. Good job, hero, you fucking killed everyone. To be fair, this cliche isn't really contained to just games. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kenri 05/22/22 5:45:43 PM #30:	Unstoppable Hero Until there's a cutscene I hate this shit. If it's used sparingly to make a point it's okay, but way more often your party can kill anything in gameplay but are completely helpless against even the most minor villains in cutscenes. Xenosaga was terrible about this, for instance. Silent protagonists are also pretty bad. On the other hand I'm a sucker for power of friendship crap, especially when the characters are actually believable as good friends. --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. <cite>Kenri posted [p:965228967] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Unstoppable Hero Until there's a cutscene I hate this shit. If it's used sparingly to make a point it's okay, but way more often your party can kill anything in gameplay but are completely helpless against even the most minor villains in cutscenes. Xenosaga was terrible about this, for instance. Silent protagonists are also pretty bad. On the other hand I'm a sucker for power of friendship crap, especially when the characters are actually believable as good friends. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Crescent-Moon 05/22/22 5:54:25 PM #31:	Choices that don't matter unless they obviously don't matter and the game is doing them just for humor Acting like your choices matter and have serious consequences that change the game when they don't is a major red flag of lazy, incompetent game development. --- So a planet's somewhere out there, their history the same as ours is written. The only difference is that... Everyone's a kitten! <cite>Crescent-Moon posted [p:965229131] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Choices that don't matter unless they obviously don't matter and the game is doing them just for humor Acting like your choices matter and have serious consequences that change the game when they don't is a major red flag of lazy, incompetent game development. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
paperwarior 05/22/22 7:01:01 PM #32:	I appreciate the return to games giving you a selection of goofy dialog choices that don't actually affect anything. --- "God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto <cite>paperwarior posted [p:965230397] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>I appreciate the return to games giving you a selection of goofy dialog choices that don't actually affect anything. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
bryans7 05/22/22 7:10:50 PM #33:	Barrels go boom. --- https://i.imgur.com/5OHeZze.jpg <cite>bryans7 posted [p:965230591] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Barrels go boom. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
colliding 05/22/22 7:17:40 PM #34:	I have absolutely no problem with silent protagonists. In fact, I'd say I like them --- while you slept, the world changed <cite>colliding posted [p:965230731] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>I have absolutely no problem with silent protagonists. In fact, I'd say I like them </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hylianknight3 05/22/22 7:32:40 PM #35:	Silent protagonists are good. --- The azuarc of the contest universe is long, but it bends toward Guruship. <cite>hylianknight3 posted [p:965231010] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Silent protagonists are good. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Xeybozn 05/22/22 7:54:13 PM #36:	Silent protagonists are fine in games where the story doesn't matter, but it just feels wrong to have one when the story is a selling point and every other character is making elaborate speeches about everything. --- Congrats to 2020 GotD Guru champ azuarc! <cite>Xeybozn posted [p:965231424] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Silent protagonists are fine in games where the story doesn't matter, but it just feels wrong to have one when the story is a selling point and every other character is making elaborate speeches about everything. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pyresword 05/22/22 8:02:46 PM #37:	Silent protagonists are definitely not okay for some types of games. --- I didn't do guru this year but azuarc can be in my sig anyways. <cite>pyresword posted [p:965231606] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Silent protagonists are definitely not okay for some types of games.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Panthera 05/22/22 8:03:22 PM #38:	Characters dying and coming back to life, and basically any time you do fake out deaths where you try to milk the emotions of a death scene where the other characters react like it was real only to pull the rug out from under it later. All it does is make me not want to bother paying attention to the story because I don't expect anything it shows me to matter, I assume it will just backtrack on anything serious/negative it suggests as a possibility so I don't give a shit. I realized just how sick I am of this kind of shit in stories recently when I played a game with an actual character death and I barely even acknowledged it until after the fact because I'm so used to seeing a character seemingly die and having it be just a cheap way to try to create drama without doing something actually dramatic. Also silent protagonists are generally bad. The ones who get enough dialogue choices aren't so bad (I don't mind the Persona ones too much because while they do strain credibility a lot, at least they do say stuff several times in pretty much every conversation so it never feels like they're just total non-entities) though still not ideal, but in general the problem is silent protagonists break the world they're in by having no one respond to them properly. The whole "self-insert" thing doesn't work at all because they're still clearly pre-defined characters - they always do the same things, make the same decisions, have whatever nebulous personality traits make the other party members like them and their enemies dislike them, etc. They just don't have any of their dialogue shown so you don't get to see much about who they are, or in the cases of the ones who don't even get treated as if they are saying things you don't get to hear/see you're left wondering why no one around them ever comments on them never talking. --- Meow! <cite>Panthera posted [p:965231617] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Characters dying and coming back to life, and basically any time you do fake out deaths where you try to milk the emotions of a death scene where the other characters react like it was real only to pull the rug out from under it later. All it does is make me not want to bother paying attention to the story because I don't expect anything it shows me to matter, I assume it will just backtrack on anything serious/negative it suggests as a possibility so I don't give a shit. I realized just how sick I am of this kind of shit in stories recently when I played a game with an actual character death and I barely even acknowledged it until after the fact because I'm so used to seeing a character seemingly die and having it be just a cheap way to try to create drama without doing something actually dramatic. Also silent protagonists are generally bad. The ones who get enough dialogue choices aren't so bad (I don't mind the Persona ones too much because while they do strain credibility a lot, at least they do say stuff several times in pretty much every conversation so it never feels like they're just total non-entities) though still not ideal, but in general the problem is silent protagonists break the world they're in by having no one respond to them properly. The whole "self-insert" thing doesn't work at all because they're still clearly pre-defined characters - they always do the same things, make the same decisions, have whatever nebulous personality traits make the other party members like them and their enemies dislike them, etc. They just don't have any of their dialogue shown so you don't get to see much about who they are, or in the cases of the ones who don't even get treated as if they are saying things you don't get to hear/see you're left wondering why no one around them ever comments on them never talking. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamikazePotato 05/22/22 8:32:49 PM #39:	Persona is definitely an example of where having a silent protagonist hurts the experience. It kiiinda words in P3 because Makoto Yuki is intended to be closed-off, but Yu Narukiami and Joker are supposed to be charismatic leaders among their friend groups. --- It's Reyn Time. <cite>KamikazePotato posted [p:965232192] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Persona is definitely an example of where having a silent protagonist hurts the experience. It kiiinda words in P3 because Makoto Yuki is intended to be closed-off, but Yu Narukiami and Joker are supposed to be charismatic leaders among their friend groups. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 05/22/22 8:37:01 PM #40:	Wait, Joker is a silent protag? I've never played P5 and literally never would have guessed this <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:965232293] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Wait, Joker is a silent protag? I've never played P5 and literally never would have guessed this </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 05/22/22 8:47:20 PM #41:	Paratroopa1 posted... Wait, Joker is a silent protag? I've never played P5 and literally never would have guessed this He's not 100% silent, but 99% of his dialogue is player choices. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:965232499] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Paratroopa1 posted... </cite> <quote>Wait, Joker is a silent protag? I've never played P5 and literally never would have guessed this</quote> He's not 100% silent, but 99% of his dialogue is player choices. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamikazePotato 05/22/22 8:49:22 PM #42:	imo, sporadic unvoiced player choices that don't change the actual conversation is the same as a silent protagonist. --- It's Reyn Time. <cite>KamikazePotato posted [p:965232531] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>imo, sporadic unvoiced player choices that don't change the actual conversation is the same as a silent protagonist. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 05/22/22 8:51:20 PM #43:	KamikazePotato posted... imo, sporadic unvoiced player choices that don't change the actual conversation is the same as a silent protagonist. Well, I mean he does have a handful of lines that aren't the result of player choice, which is somehow more than previous Persona protagonists. The sad thing is that the P5 anime made him boring. --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:965232569] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>KamikazePotato posted... </cite> <quote>imo, sporadic unvoiced player choices that don't change the actual conversation is the same as a silent protagonist.</quote> Well, I mean he does have a handful of lines that aren't the result of player choice, which is somehow more than previous Persona protagonists. The sad thing is that the P5 anime made him boring. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Strife2 05/22/22 8:58:52 PM #44:	Joker has a voice the same way Adol does. As in not much. --- "Evening caress, Always yearning, I must confess, The stars aren't burning" Copernicus - Candlemass <cite>Strife2 posted [p:965232731] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>Joker has a voice the same way Adol does. As in not much. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Crescent-Moon 05/22/22 8:59:04 PM #45:	paperwarior posted... I appreciate the return to games giving you a selection of goofy dialog choices that don't actually affect anything. You're lovers --- So a planet's somewhere out there, their history the same as ours is written. The only difference is that... Everyone's a kitten! <cite>Crescent-Moon posted [p:965232739] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>paperwarior posted... </cite> <quote>I appreciate the return to games giving you a selection of goofy dialog choices that don't actually affect anything.</quote>You're lovers </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leonhart4 05/22/22 9:38:24 PM #46:	You're a sham! The detective's a sham! >>>I'm a sham! --- https://imgur.com/WqDcNNq https://imgur.com/89Z5jrB <cite>Leonhart4 posted [p:965233471] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>You're a sham! The detective's a sham! >>>I'm a sham! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LeonhartFour 05/22/22 9:44:05 PM #47:	also choices "mattering" or not doesn't bother me much because I realize there's an inherent limitation to how much choices actually can matter in most games to me I just enjoy making the choice I would actually make, as well as seeing the unique dialogue each choice provides, more than the actual consequences of that choice --- http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/080/145/638.png <cite>LeonhartFour posted [p:965233559] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>also choices "mattering" or not doesn't bother me much because I realize there's an inherent limitation to how much choices actually can matter in most games to me I just enjoy making the choice I would actually make, as well as seeing the unique dialogue each choice provides, more than the actual consequences of that choice </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
colliding 05/22/22 9:45:21 PM #48:	you know what game is improved drastically if it has a silent protagonist? triangle strategy. now you might say "you know what else would improve it? better writing." point taken, but I prefer a self-insert over a badly written cliche archetype whenever possible. I dunno, I guess I've never had a problem with "using my imagination" in these situations. I honestly can't think of a silent protagonist that's ever bothered me. Like, if the MC of suikoden II has scripted scenes/dialogue that game isn't better and is possibly worse. If Rudy in Wild Arms is scripted, that game is maybe better, but not necessarily as Wild Arms 2 indicates. Sorry for the grammar in this one --- while you slept, the world changed <cite>colliding posted [p:965233583] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>you know what game is improved drastically if it has a silent protagonist? triangle strategy. now you might say "you know what else would improve it? better writing." point taken, but I prefer a self-insert over a badly written cliche archetype whenever possible. I dunno, I guess I've never had a problem with "using my imagination" in these situations. I honestly can't think of a silent protagonist that's ever bothered me. Like, if the MC of suikoden II has scripted scenes/dialogue that game isn't better and is possibly worse. If Rudy in Wild Arms is scripted, that game is maybe better, but not necessarily as Wild Arms 2 indicates. Sorry for the grammar in this one </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sheep007 05/22/22 9:58:16 PM #49:	LeonhartFour posted... also choices "mattering" or not doesn't bother me much because I realize there's an inherent limitation to how much choices actually can matter in most games to me I just enjoy making the choice I would actually make, as well as seeing the unique dialogue each choice provides, more than the actual consequences of that choice This is a really interesting perspective to me, because there's not much that irritates me more than choices that appear genuinely relevant which have no impact when the game advertises that your choices matter. I don't really care if my choices matter in Mario games or Pokemon dialogue (don't get me wrong, it'd be nice if they could and the latter might be better for it, but having funny flavour text is good enough and it's not something you go into them expecting). If something presents itself as a serious story or world driven RPG where my choices matter, though, I'm gonna be a little peeved if there's not a good reason for my choice to have zero impact on the world. Like, I'd rather a game just straight up not give me the illusion of agency if I have no say in it. The only time I'll excuse this is when it's very thematically relevant, or when the game is emotionally manipulating me through forcing me into a choice because dammit I'm a sucker for that. --- Perhaps the golden rock was inside us all along. <cite>Sheep007 posted [p:965233851] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>LeonhartFour posted... </cite> <quote>also choices "mattering" or not doesn't bother me much because I realize there's an inherent limitation to how much choices actually can matter in most games to me I just enjoy making the choice I would actually make, as well as seeing the unique dialogue each choice provides, more than the actual consequences of that choice</quote>This is a really interesting perspective to me, because there's not much that irritates me more than choices that appear genuinely relevant which have no impact when the game advertises that your choices matter. I don't really care if my choices matter in Mario games or Pokemon dialogue (don't get me wrong, it'd be nice if they could and the latter might be better for it, but having funny flavour text is good enough and it's not something you go into them expecting). If something presents itself as a serious story or world driven RPG where my choices matter, though, I'm gonna be a little peeved if there's not a good reason for my choice to have zero impact on the world. Like, I'd rather a game just straight up not give me the illusion of agency if I have no say in it. The only time I'll excuse this is when it's very thematically relevant, or when the game is emotionally manipulating me through forcing me into a choice because dammit I'm a sucker for that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pyresword 05/22/22 10:05:10 PM #50:	My hot take is that I don't like games giving you story/dialogue choices at all. --- I didn't do guru this year but azuarc can be in my sig anyways. <cite>pyresword posted [p:965233981] in Worst Vide... [t:80029866]...</cite> <quote>My hot take is that I don't like games giving you story/dialogue choices at all.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Worst Video Game Story Cliche? (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Worst Video Game Story Cliche?