Current Events > Do u think Israel is going to cost Biden the election?

(+) Yeah! (+)

SaikyoStyle posted...

Ill take that as a no. Maybe you were too young.

I mean, you're just proving my point here. All you have is insults. If I actually was the sort of person who would not vote do you really think the BS you spout would be at all convincing? Of course not, you know it and so do I. You do it because you want to piss people off and cement them in their stance rather than actually convince them to actually vote.

Horith posted...

Its not clear whether that actually will gain him votes. As many people as there are unhappy with is handling of Israel, theres likely to be just as much if not more backlash from more centeist Dem voters if he were to take a harder stance against Israel. All were seeing is 10% of voters in a primary, that was pretty much already decided before it began, who if theyre smart will still vote Biden anyway in the general because the alternative is losing our democracy to a known criminal with aspirations of being a dictator.

Alright, Ive considered this and its plausible. What it doesnt explain is why liberals are bitching about it so much. If his inaction or support of Israel isnt going to cost him votes, isnt going to cost him the election, then why bitch about it constantly? Something isnt adding up.

MrMojoRising posted...

Some people get so titled when you tell them you won't support their genocidal candidate. All this energy could be better spent trying to get Joe to stop sending bombs a country that's killing kids and aid workers.

Every major US nominee for the entire existence of Israel has been "the genocidal candidate".

There are more issues on plate than Gaza, mostly that actually stand to hurt people on this side of the planet, in America, which Biden is the president of. The country whose foreign policy we've begrudgingly tolerated for this long and can tolerate for the most important election in history.p

Oooh youd better be nice to me or Ill let fascists have power again!

Grow up dude.

ellis123 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5393f05a.jpg

Funny how ppl keep leaving out black ppl in these things. Also this is a trolly. This a bus that Biden is willingly driving.

cjsdowg posted...

Your actions say you support Genocide. Don't push that to people who don't support. To try to rationalized your stance. Between me and you. You are voting for the guy supporting a genocide. I am not. So that is on you. Keep telling yourself whatever you need to sleep at night.

At least when there are no more elections, abortion is illegal nationwide, LGBTQ people are being genocided, and another contagious disease destroys the country because our government no longer believes in science or medicine, at least you'll be able to smugly say "I stood against a pro-death candidate"

So it boils down to a crappy choice or an absolutely horrible choice (and any other choice will literally have no impact whatsoever). What else is new in Murrica.

tankboy: But the number of dem voters who disapprove of Israel in general is a small subset of those who disapprove of Israel's actions in Gaza. That's the number who would actually be turned off from voting for him, and it's small.

If 10% dem voters in MI or WI sit out or switch could be enough for both states go to Trump. Biden is tying Bibi around his neck for no reason as Bibi isn't going to be the PM after next election.

Aressar posted...

So it boils down to a crappy choice or an absolutely horrible choice (and any other choice will literally have no impact whatsoever). What else is new in Murrica.

Thats why I try to boost progressive candidates in local & state level elections. At the federal level, the best we can really hope for is harm reduction (which is sadly lost on the fascist enablers).

cjsdowg posted...

Funny how ppl keep leaving out black ppl in these things. Also this is a trolly. This a bus that Biden is willingly driving.

And he's demonstrably less bad than Trump, so shut the fuck up and vote. Since when do people need to like a choice to make a choice? Just pick the less bad one and move on with your life. Voting in the Presidential elections shouldn't be the beginning and end of activism for anyone who wants change anyway.

Don't support Biden. Use him. Trump won't be better for you. Take what you can.

cjsdowg posted...

Funny how ppl keep leaving out black ppl in these things.

If you want them included make your own meme, post it online, and have it get popular enough that it comes when I search for a meme on Google.

cjsdowg posted...

Also this is a trolly. This a bus that Biden is willingly driving.

The crap you talking about.

Since the topic is still stuck in the same infinite "but Trump bad"-loop, I'll try to ask again:

Hornezz posted...

Would be nice if one of these topics for once could move past the reflexive "but Trump worse". Yes, Trump is worse on every single category including Gaza. Now that we've established that, the discussion should be how to exactly prevent him from being elected again.

Is any of the following actually helping Biden to win votes?

- Send billions worth of bombs, despite wide disapproval among Dem voters for Israel's actions
- Outright deny the human rights violations going on in Gaza
- Accuse anti-genocide protestors of being idiots, Trumpers, Hamas supporters, Russia/China bots, etc.
- Pretend that a significant part of Dem voters is just a fringe group whose concerns can safely be ignored
- Threaten critics with concentration camps or deportations if they don't fall in line

SaikyoStyle posted...

Thats why I try to boost progressive candidates in local & state level elections. At the federal level, the best we can really hope for is harm reduction (which is sadly lost on the fascist enablers).

A commitment to nonviolence is incompatible with the current American political environment. However admirable it appears on the surface, it's a choice to take no action to oppose fascism.

Every President 99.99% of CE has been alive for is a war criminal, and the nominee they beat would have been too, but suddenly we just have too much of a conscience to continue participating in the electoral process.

Hornezz posted...

Since the topic is still stuck in the same infinite "but Trump bad"-loop, I'll try to ask again:

Trump would be worse. Only Biden being worse than Trump could change my vote.

And liberals aren't threatening you with deportations and genocide. The GOP is promising those things if they win because you are too moral to vote for their opponent. Nothing says moral like "If some people aren't saved, then no one should be saved, including those I want to save"

You guys aren't taking a bullet for Gazans. You're taking a random bullet for no one and then Trump drops a nuke on the Gazans you want to save. What a noble sacrifice.

Democrats and Biden himself cost the election.

And tagged

hockeybabe89 posted...

Every major US nominee for the entire existence of Israel has been "the genocidal candidate".

There are more issues on plate than Gaza, mostly that actually stand to hurt people on this side of the planet, in America, which Biden is the president of. The country whose foreign policy we've begrudgingly tolerated for this long and can tolerate for the most important election in history.p

Your first statement minimizes the genocide in Gaza and the President's active role in it, which is dissimilar from other foreign conflicts. Not all of those conflicts are situations were people are corralled into a tiny speck of land and bombed and starved. We won't know the full effects until years later (if ever), but even now, there is a recognition within the international community that this mass killing of Palestinians goes beyond our usual criminal acts - i.e. a genocide. It is the very worst thing any country can do or help another country do.

You're just okay with all of that for whatever benefit you think you'll get if Biden's elected. I've seen what a Biden presidency gets me - it's nowhere near enough to justify a genocide (nothing is btw).

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7f01146c.jpg

Just say you want Trump in power and an even more horrible outcome for Palastine.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Trump would be worse. Only Biden being worse than Trump could change my vote.

I like how you confirmed my comment about being stuck in the Trump-bad-loop.

I respectfully ask you to take the next step in logic.

Assuming preventing a Trump win is the at the utmost importance:

• Is Biden's handling of the Gaza conflict actually helping that goal?
• Is the approach you, and so many other supporters ITT have, actually helping that goal?

The threats of a Trump presidency are completely hollow if what you're defending is not doing anything to prevent it.

SaikyoStyle posted...

Oooh youd better be nice to me or Ill let fascists have power again!

Grow up dude.

How about you show where I even implied anything like that? Hell, show where I actually advocate for not voting or voting for Trump, that would be great too.

You of course can't do that so you'll just respond with yet more insults because that's literally all you are capable of.

A_A_Battery posted...

But the rest of what you said, yeah no one actually believes that will happen though. Literally no one believes that if trump gains power, the US is going to switch to being in sepia tone, nazis with red arm bands will be marching up and down the streets, pogroms, and then they attack poland. No. Instead, they just believe they will get "slightly worse than biden" for president, and you gotta put up with him for 4 years till he buggers right back off because he's already had a first term.

It may not play out that quickly, but it is the platform trump has been setting the course for. Anyone saying "they're not yet nazis" is running interference for normalizing nazi discourse.

Hornezz posted...

I like how you confirmed my comment about being stuck in the Trump-bad-loop.

I respectfully ask you to take the next step in logic.

Assuming preventing a Trump win is the at the utmost importance:
* Is Biden's handling of the Gaza conflict actually helping that goal?
* Is the approach you, and so many other supporters ITT have, actually helping that goal?

The threats of a Trump presidency are completely hollow if what you're defending is not doing anything to prevent it.

These are 2 different arguments. Criticism of Biden is good, he needs to be criticized for his Israel stance. Theres no need to defend what hes doing there. Not voting is something else entirely.

Pledging to not vote at all or vote third party is a problem. Even if Bidens israel stance doesnt improve, hes still the better option than Trump. I will vote for Biden, and anyone who doesnt is complicit if Trump wins.

I've seen lots of people lately desperately looking to be validated for supporting a genocidal candidate. I guess I would be, too if I was them.

Hornezz posted...

Would be nice if one of these topics for once could move past the reflexive "but Trump worse". Yes, Trump is worse on every single category including Gaza. Now that we've established that, the discussion should be how to exactly prevent him from being elected again.

This right here is the most teeth grinding, hair-pullingly infuriating thing about abstaining voters.

I'm sorry that Trump warped the fabric of modern politics so irrevocably that now realistically the only choices we have is fascism and not fascism. But, yes, him being that fucking bad is the whole fucking point.

Biden didn't have to "earn my vote" because I'm not complicit in a fucking fascist rise to power. Biden didn't have to "earn my vote" because I can see the big picture and I'm not so far up my own ass that I'm going to sit be cool with my LGBT, non white, non religious friends and family be persecuted by an aspiring fascist.

It's that fucking simple. I'm not voting for Biden, I am voting against Trump. If you believe a 3rd party is the answer, you're a fool. And just as culpable if Trump wins.

I can't find the post but someone else said this ITT that I really like:

"Why is it never the GOP that has to change?"

Y'all would rather moan about dems even though Repubs want to set the world on fire.

cjsdowg posted...

Domestically it would be a lot worse for me than it would be for you if Trump is elected so don't try to lecture me. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Trying to wipe out of people while the Biden Supports it is wrong. If they turned Gaza into the glass. Biden would not care.

You dont seem to get it.
THERE ARE TWO OUTCOMES.
Outcome 1: Biden is elected. Things continue pretty much as they are, but theres at least some hope of getting somewhere.
Outcome 2: Trump is elected. Netanyahu gets carte blanche to do whatever he wants. Putin gets carte blanche to do what he wants. Trans genocide gets a go-ahead. Reproductive rights go on the trash heap. Project 25 is a go. Goodbye elections.
There is no magic outcome 3 where neither wins and a magical unicorn descends from the sky and farts out magic socialism.

Yazarogi posted...

Just say you want Trump in power and an even more horrible outcome for Palastine.

Just say you want Biden in power and are at best willing to turn a blind eye to what happens to Palestine as a result.

Unlike the people you're accusing of supporting Trump (who actually support neither Trump nor Biden), you are actually advocating support for a candidate who is facilitating a genocide.

Trumble posted...

Just say you want Biden in power and are at best willing to turn a blind eye to what happens to Palestine as a result.

Unlike the people you're accusing of supporting Trump (who actually support neither Trump nor Biden), you are actually advocating support for a candidate who is facilitating a genocide.

what an incredibly ignorant thing to say.

Yazarogi posted...

what an incredibly ignorant thing to say.

Are you trying to suggest you're not actually advocating support for Biden, or are you trying to suggest Biden is not facilitating a genocide?

MrMojoRising posted...

Your first statement minimizes the genocide in Gaza and the President's active role in it, which is dissimilar from other foreign conflicts. Not all of those conflicts are situations were people are corralled into a tiny speck of land and bombed and starved. We won't know the full effects until years later (if ever), but even now, there is a recognition within the international community that this mass killing of Palestinians goes beyond our usual criminal acts - i.e. a genocide. It is the very worst thing any country can do or help another country do.

You're just okay with all of that for whatever benefit you think you'll get if Biden's elected. I've seen what a Biden presidency gets me - it's nowhere near enough to justify a genocide (nothing is btw).

I wasn't minimizing it. Israel has been genociding Palestinians since before we were alive, and America has blindly supported them every step of the way.

If Biden supports Israel and Trump supports Israel, we have to look at more than a single issue and make the rational choice that causes the least damage, not essentially opt out and leave it up to chance.

Trumble posted...

Are you trying to suggest you're not actually advocating support for Biden, or are you trying to suggest Biden is not facilitating a genocide?

oh I know hes doing that. I can just think far enough ahead to see an even worse outcome with an even worse candidate. Youre free to not use critical thinking skills but it just makes you stupid.

Hard to say. I wanna say no, but you never know. He needs to win back support from the Gaza situation.

Cemith posted...

This right here is the most teeth grinding, hair-pullingly infuriating thing about abstaining voters.

I'm sorry that Trump warped the fabric of modern politics so irrevocably that now realistically the only choices we have is fascism and not fascism. But, yes, him being that fucking bad is the whole fucking point.

Biden didn't have to "earn my vote" because I'm not complicit in a fucking fascist rise to power. Biden didn't have to "earn my vote" because I can see the big picture and I'm not so far up my own ass that I'm going to sit be cool with my LGBT, non white, non religious friends and family be persecuted by an aspiring fascist.

It's that fucking simple. I'm not voting for Biden, I am voting against Trump. If you believe a 3rd party is the answer, you're a fool. And just as culpable if Trump wins.

I can't find the post but someone else said this ITT that I really like:

"Why is it never the GOP that has to change?"

Y'all would rather moan about dems even though Repubs want to set the world on fire.

Nicely stated. My opinion of Biden is not material to the election.
My opinion of Trump is.

Whining when progess isn't immediate isn't helping progressives. It's taking the steps to build up infrastructure to help the poor, schooling that produces future generations who aren't hateful dicks, etc.

McMarbles posted...

There is no magic outcome 3 where neither wins and a magical unicorn descends from the sky and farts out magic socialism.

But the entire country could gather together and decide on a third party candidate by November if they try really hard!

MrMojoRising posted...

I've seen lots of people lately desperately looking to be validated for supporting a genocidal candidate. I guess I would be, too if I was them.

by all means, dont vote. When your rights are taken away you can know that you at least held true to your principles.

cjsdowg posted...

Funny how ppl keep leaving out black ppl in these things. Also this is a trolly. This a bus that Biden is willingly driving.

I'm black and I fully agree with that image.

Republican politicians, as I've stated earlier, are buddy buddy with people who want to hang us from trees.

mistymermaid posted...

I shouldn't have to remind people which party wants to restrict voting rights, deny election results, overturn outcomes they don't like, and conduct an insurrection to install their candidate as a dictator.

And yet again, no one is supporting that party either, so this is a red herring.

When there's an election held in which you vote against rather than vote for people, it is very likely most if not all of these people will be voting against Trump. But that's not how elections in reality work. They involve voting for someone, and a lot of people are not willing to vote for someone who is actively facilitating a genocide, even if they would be willing to vote against one or more of the other options in a vote-against election.

Trumble posted...

And yet again, no one is supporting that party either, so this is a red herring.

I'll own up to that flub. It wasn't relevant to the post I was quoting.

Trumble posted...

And yet again, no one is supporting that party either, so this is a red herring.

Sure, they aren't supporting in the general sense, but they are ambivalent toward it happening.

Trumble posted...

And yet again, no one is supporting that party either, so this is a red herring.

They are. Low voter turnout supports Republicans.

Trump cultists are voting for him no matter what.

Yazarogi posted...

by all means, dont vote. When your rights are taken away you can know that you at least held true to your principles.

Lol, Joe's been watching my rights being taken away for the last 3 years and hasn't done anything about it. I'm supposed to think he's going to do something now?

Trumble posted...

And yet again, no one is supporting that party either, so this is a red herring.

LOW TURNOUT HELPS THE REPUBLICANS. THAT IS WHY THEY MAKE IT SO HARD TO VOTE.
Just wanted to make that clear.
Always, always be suspicious of anyone trying to get people not to vote.

Trumble posted...

And yet again, no one is supporting that party either, so this is a red herring.

If Trump wins because you didn't vote or voted third party, you helped him win. Pretending that you're not helping him win by doing that is a red herring.

MrMojoRising posted...

Lol, Joe's been watching my rights being taken away for the last 3 years and hasn't done anything about it. I'm supposed to think he's going to do something now?

what rights are those, do you care to elaborate?

MrMojoRising posted...

Lol, Joe's been watching my rights being taken away for the last 3 years and hasn't done anything about it. I'm supposed to think he's going to do something now?

You realize the conservative supreme court that is responsible for some of these rights being taken is because they were appointed by the conservative former president?

There is no way youre trying to spin this as Bidens fault. So disingenuous.

Tanthalas posted...

If Trump wins because you didn't vote or voted third party, you helped him win. Pretending that you're not helping him win by doing that is a red herring.

So if Israel continues to commit genocide, those who actively voted for (and encouraged others to vote for) a candidate who supported them are not responsible for it... But people who don't vote for either candidate are somehow responsible for what the winner does but only if the winner is the Republican guy?

MrMojoRising posted...

Lol, Joe's been watching my rights being taken away for the last 3 years and hasn't done anything about it. I'm supposed to think he's going to do something now?

Shit you're right, better make sure we install the person that's more loud and vibrant about taking rights away. That'll show him!

Heineken14 posted...

Sure, they aren't supporting in the general sense, but they are ambivalent toward it happening.

They don't give a fuck.

They will do nothing win trump continues the genocide and they will do nothing when trump starts his genocide against other groups.

Gambling with other peopes lives all for some worthless virtue signaling.