Current Events > No Tip Warning Appears On DoorDash In Updated Feature

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's weird how everyone should just quit their jobs if they have problems with them, but we can't quit using food delivery apps because "It's not my fault things are like this". It's the exact same entitled customer stuff you see in-store.

pnut027 posted...

Tipping hurts the consumer, who are also the workers.

Now you have people who work for tips, tipping people who work for tips.

Ok, but how does not tipping hurt the company? You're basically saying "I can afford to make a donation to the multibillion dollar global corporation, but not to other workers like me"

hockeybub89 posted...

It's weird how everyone should just quit their jobs if they have problems with them, but we can't quit using food delivery apps because "It's not my fault things are like this". It's the exact same entitled customer stuff you see in-store.

Ok, but how does not tipping hurt the company? You're basically saying "I can afford to make a donation to the multibillion dollar global corporation, but not to other workers like me"

Im basically saying that I can afford to pay for what was on my receipt for my order.

I cant afford to make a donation to the worker on behalf of a multibillion dollar global corporation.

ChocoboMog123 posted...

How entitled do you have to be to complain about contractors looking to get some money for a service that is 99% convenience? DoorDash could charge $1000 per order and it'd still get customers complaining, "Ugg, I can't believe these prices I have to pay."
Don't like it? Don't use it!

Exactly. They are cool with the markup and the services fees, but oh ho ho $5 to the delivery driver? What the fuck is this racket? I'm putting my foot down! This is the last straw!

It's not "I'm going to stop using DoorDash", just "I'm going to stop tipping drivers."

If you support tipping, you shill for companies because it proves they can afford to pay the worker the lowest amount possible since they know the consumer will pick up the slack.

If everyone stopped tipping, companies will either be forced to increase their worker wages or be shut down.

Whelp it's a good thing I don't bother with doordash.

"Tipping" has gone from being a bonus for excellent service to blackmailing the customer so the server or delivery person doesn't sabotage your order.

It's literally extortion. Like what the mafia would do.
The fact that the customer is coerced into providing a tip before the service is even rendered is proof of that.

kage_53 posted...

If you support tipping, you shill for companies because it proves they can afford to pay the worker the lowest amount possible since they know the consumer will pick up the slack.

If everyone stopped tipping, companies will either be forced to increase their worker wages or be shut down.

Well that assumes that the people working there will take the matter up with the business that, if tipping is slowing, then we expect better from the employer.

Instead I've heard of patrons get chased down when leaving restaurants by servers asking if they meant to leave a tipping line blank.

kage_53 posted...

If you support tipping, you shill for companies because it proves they can afford to pay the worker the lowest amount possible since they know the consumer will pick up the slack.

If everyone stopped tipping, companies will either be forced to increase their worker wages or be shut down.

And if everyone loved each other, there would be world peace. There needs to be solutions a little more concrete and legislative than "I stopped tipping and so should you!"

Rika_Furude posted...

if its not a mandatory fee, why shouldnt you use the service without paying it? again this is some american shit that doesnt make sense. im not looking for more justifications for tipping trash here

It's not supposed to be mandatory.

Ricemills posted...

In civilized countries, this is considered a crime.

Im fairly certain that its a crime in America as well.

I don't mind tipping, but I don't like that it's expected even for bad service. Tipping should be something that's given after a service is done, not bebeforehand.

Lil_Bit83 posted...

It's not supposed to be mandatory.

Theres many people ITT, especially hockey, arguing that it is. If you dont tip, dont get delivery
people like him, slurping the tipping culture, got workers to the sorry state they are at today which is why I struggle to take tip supporters seriously

Rika_Furude posted...

if its not a mandatory fee, why shouldnt you use the service without paying it? again this is some american shit that doesnt make sense. im not looking for more justifications for tipping trash here

Well you ARE paying for it. DoorDash charges a service fee that they themselves collect for operating expenses. You can lower this fee by paying for DashPass but either way DoorDash is collecting an operational expense to offer you the service. It is NOT a tip, though, and I find that insulting considering I'm paying DoorDash for my service, not the driver. DoorDash's job is to match a driver with my delivery request and then pay them for the service that was performed. In my mind, that should be the extent of it and the extra money I paid to DoorDash -- in addition to what they collect from the restaurant before giving them their cut -- is what should make up the delivery driver's fee and that's it.

HylianFox posted...

"Tipping" has gone from being a bonus for excellent service to blackmailing the customer so the server or delivery person doesn't sabotage your food.

The server doesn't have the bargaining power to demand more. They'll just get treated like dirt by customers and then fired because the numbers say they are bad at their job.

Get a refund from doordash if the food is cold

Solid_Sonic posted...

Well you ARE paying for it. Doordash charges a service fee that they themselves collect for operating expenses. You can lower this fee by paying for DashPass but either way DoorDash is collecting an operational expense to offer you the service. It is NOT a tip, though, and I find that insulting considering I'm paying DoorDash for my service, not the driver.

Its for that reason Im against gig work as a whole. I dont use Uber either

Rika_Furude posted...

Its for that reason Im against gig work as a whole. I dont use Uber either

No, that's your problem with big money sticking its nose into what should have stayed as a grassroots, local entity. Trying to profit off the gig economy under the guise of "exposure" and "getting everyone connected with a job" has turned what was a good concept into a profit-driven enterprise that has no room for doing right by all the participating parties.

And truth be told ride sharing has managed to keep its soul even with big money involved. It can be better, sure, but by and large it's still fairly up-and-up from my point of view (at least fundamentally). Rather than ceding the duty of ferrying people around to a taxi company that gets to make all the decisions you instead let individuals willing to participate in the system voluntarily approach a company looking to pair them with fares and shuttle people needing to go places around. Then those drivers can ensure the service they provide is exceptional and earn a bonus from the person they taxied in addition to a base fare paid by the service provider.

Food delivery has lost its soul by going corporate because of how detached everything is (people order food, a restaurant makes it, someone goes to get it -- it's all very disparate). This lack of interaction between everyone means that the whole process is fairly obfuscated from anyone involved so the company pulling the strings can simply tell a dissatisfied party that "that's how it works," and not need to provide justification for why it does. Driver not happy with their fee? Customers pay tips for services received, don't they? Customer doesn't like pre-tipping? Hey, we got a business to run, we can't be expected to pay these drivers the ENTIRE cost for the run, you gotta pitch in too. Restaurant says their cut is too small? We expanded your customer base by letting you market to people farther away, didn't we?

Rika_Furude posted...

Theres many people ITT, especially hockey, arguing that it is. If you dont tip, dont get delivery
people like him, slurping the tipping culture, got workers to the sorry state they are at today which is why I struggle to take tip supporters seriously

I'm sorry that I have as much empathy for workers as I do hatred of corporations. All you do in America if you don't tip is hurt an innocent person while still giving a corporation their money and paying all their mandatory fees. I would want to be tipped if I worked for tips in this society, so I have to pay it forward.

hockeybub89 posted...

I'm sorry that I have as much empathy for workers as I do hatred of corporations. All you do in America if you don't tip is hurt an innocent person while still giving a corporation their money and paying all their mandatory fees. I would want to be tipped if I worked for tips in this society, so I have to pay it forward.

So nil to both?

Rika_Furude posted...

Theres many people ITT, especially hockey, arguing that it is. If you dont tip, dont get delivery
people like him, slurping the tipping culture, got workers to the sorry state they are at today which is why I struggle to take tip supporters seriously

See tipping is supposed to be a courtesy for good service and added to the payment of your meal. NOT before.

I don't claim to know when it's appropriate to tip at fancy hotels since I've never been to one. Or at salons since I trim my own hair, but it has never been mandatory.

Am I all for servers and the like being paid a decent wage instead of relying on tips? Absolutely! However, bragging online about tampering with your customer's food or deliberately dragging your feet isn't going to make people wanna tip you either. It's gonna ensure the exact opposite, because that's not good service. And those individual workers are deliberately screwing themselves over.

hockeybub89 posted...

And if everyone loved each other, there would be world peace. There needs to be solutions a little more concrete and legislative than "I stopped tipping and so should you!"

That literally is the only solution. Tipping is designed to be exploitive. Why do you think tipping culture is only a thing in America ? These companies (Uber, Lyft, doordash etc..) dont even consider the delivery person an employee but an independent contractor so they dont offer them any benefits as well.

These services never appealed to me because they are openly cash-grab operations with a corporate structure of abusing the customers and workers. The CEOs sit back and laugh while the customers and drivers battle it out over who is at fault. To be honest, I cannot fathom how they even still have drivers.

If the company is making tipping compulsory then screw the company. I can pick up my own food or take my money elsewhere thank you.

Solid_Sonic posted...

No, that's your problem with big money sticking its nose into what should have stayed as a grassroots, local entity. Trying to profit off the gig economy under the guise of "exposure" and "getting everyone connected with a job" has turned what was a good concept into a profit-driven enterprise that has no room for doing right by all the participating parties.

And truth be told ride sharing has managed to keep its soul even with big money involved. It can be better, sure, but by and large it's still fairly up-and-up from my point of view (at least fundamentally). Rather than ceding the duty of ferrying people around to a taxi company that gets to make all the decisions you instead let individuals willing to participate in the system voluntarily approach a company looking to pair them with fares and shuttle people needing to go places around. Then those drivers can ensure the service they provide is exceptional and earn a bonus from the person they taxied in addition to a base fare paid by the service provider.

Food delivery has lost its soul by going corporate because of how detached everything is (people order food, a restaurant makes it, someone goes to get it -- it's all very disparate). This lack of interaction between everyone means that the whole process is fairly obfuscated from anyone involved so the company pulling the strings can simply tell a dissatisfied party that "that's how it works," and not need to provide justification for why it does. Driver not happy with their fee? Customers pay tips for services received, don't they? Customer doesn't like pre-tipping? Hey, we got a business to run, we can't be expected to pay these drivers the ENTIRE cost for the run, you gotta pitch in too. Restaurant says their cut is too small? We expanded your customer base by letting you market to people farther away, didn't we?

Is this your first experience in life under capitalism?

Lil_Bit83 posted...

If the company is making tipping compulsory then screw the company. I can pick up my own food or take my money elsewhere thank you.

They never said it's compulsory

hockeybub89 posted...

Then don't fucking get food delivered! How about you stop getting fucking paid at work? You have no right to get mad since you voluntarily took the job in the first place!

Good to see you've been successfully brainwashed by the wealthy elite to take your anger out on the worker.

This guy has to be a troll

I'm actually coming from a point of view that we used to have small food delivery businesses locally and I was mostly agreeable with how they operated (the costs of what you ordered from the restaurants was about the same as what's on the menu normally, the service fees were fair, and tipping wasn't asked for upfront and instead something you could hand to the driver directly or tack on after the order was completed).

It wasn't until these smaller outfits were swallowed up by the major players like GrubHub and Bite Squad that I saw the infrastructure vanish and what was left doesn't feel favorable to anyone.

You shouldn't tip until the service is completed. This is awful and further justifies my decision to never use these services.

But hey, it's a corporation pitting the workers against the consumers, so it's a win-win for them.

MatzoTov posted...

You shouldn't tip until the service is completed. This is awful and further justifies my decision to never use these services.

What if you can adjust your tip after the delivery?

Cocytus posted...

What if you can adjust your tip after the delivery?

DoorDash drivers complained about this because people would promise a huge tip to get them on the hook then get shafted after the delivery was completed by a post-service adjustment.

Cocytus posted...

What if you can adjust your tip after the delivery?

Can you?

I'd support it but it seems like it's ripe for abuse. E.g. I'll put a $10 tip knowing I'm gonna get high priority but then drop it down to $5 regardless of the service quality.

Solid_Sonic posted...

DoorDash drivers complained about this because people would promise a huge tip to get them on the hook then get shafted after the delivery was completed by a post-service adjustment.

Yeah this

Solid_Sonic posted...

DoorDash drivers complained about this because people would promise a huge tip to get them on the hook then get shafted after the delivery was completed by a post-service adjustment.

MatzoTov posted...

Can you?

I'd support it but it seems like it's ripe for abuse. E.g. I'll put a $10 tip knowing I'm gonna get high priority but then drop it down to $5 regardless of the service quality.

Yeah this

It's a valid concern, but I don't think it's usual. Uber Eats has this feature.

The problem here is DoorDash and how they operate. No one's getting treated well in what should be a simple, fuss-less process.

I'll be frank: I do not like paying money beyond what DoorDash has already taken from me besides the cost of my order. Tipping a DoorDash driver does not feel the same as tipping a driver that was dispatched directly from the restaurant that I ordered from because there is a distinction in what the duties of those two individuals entails. Someone who was sent from the restaurant delivered my food in addition to whatever else the restaurant assigns them to do when not delivering food so it is an additional duty and one that is worthy of a bonus simply by virtue of being an extra feature of giving that store your business. A DoorDash delivery driver was summoned by DoorDash to pick up an order and bring it somewhere. That was their entire duty and DoorDash should adequately compensate them for the time and resources it took to do that, even if it means their own cut of the ordeal wasn't as high as it could have been. If the user feels like the service was particularly worthy of a tip (I can't see how but I don't judge why people tip) then so be it, they can add one AFTER the delivery is completed. But the only thing a Dasher should have to consider when taking a job should be "is DoorDash paying me enough to make that run," when they see a new job pop up without any "promise" (which isn't even a factor due to post-service tip adjustment) of a high pre-tip inviting them to take that job.

But what incentive does DoorDash have to change this structure? They pay the drivers low, use tips as a "bargaining chip" for customers to tip high in order to have their food delivered as fast as possible, and then make it look like the customers are the bad guys for not tipping well enough because DoorDash are the ones skimming more than they deserve from the process.

Cocytus posted...

It's a valid concern, but I don't think it's usual. Uber Eats has this feature.

It does.

I delivered for all these apps during Covid when I was really struggling for money. Uber Eats was the worst for exactly this reason. It happens way more than you'd think.

"The problem is DoorDash they're an evil company taking advantage of workers"

Okay stop using it then

"No"

Lmao refusing to tip isn't a form of protest or isn't sticking it to DoorDash. The only people getting hurt from that is the driver. And not tipping en masse isn't going to cause drivers to quit, it'll just make the drivers work more to make up for the lack of tips.

Yes DoorDash sucks, but so do people who recognize that and still refuse to tip while using their service. Just stop using it! It's easy.

Hey, I'm fine with DashPass costing more (make it $120 a year, that's fine -- according to them I saved WAAAAY more than that by using the service) if it means that "tipping is a personal decision of the recipient and is in recognition of the driver's diligence, your driver was still paid for their time and effort."

But urging people to tip regardless of the reason means that somewhere along the line they're trying to offset their own role in it, foisting the responsibility back to the customer. If I'm tipping a driver who is JUST driving food to me then why don't I just call up a friend and have them do it for me and cut you out of it? I went to DoorDash because I knew they'd have drivers who are willing to instead of just hoping my buddy has some free time on his hands to make a buck so don't ask me to then also add more money to the process beyond what I paid DoorDash to facilitate the delivery in the first place (be it delivery + service fees or DashPass sub + reduced service fees). You are paying the driver to do all this work, do right by them and make it worth their while.

Smashingpmkns posted...

"The problem is DoorDash they're an evil company taking advantage of workers"

Okay stop using it then

"No"

Lmao refusing to tip isn't a form of protest or isn't sticking it to DoorDash. The only people getting hurt from that is the driver. And not tipping en masse isn't going to cause drivers to quit, it'll just make the drivers work more to make up for the lack of tips.

Yes DoorDash sucks, but so do people who recognize that and still refuse to tip while using their service. Just stop using it! It's easy.

Seriously. I really don't understand why this is contentious or why people are struggling so much with this idea.

Doordash is the problem. So is UberEats, Grubhub, Postmates, they're all terrible.

And yes, I agree that our tipping culture is a problem, its exploitative, hurts the workers, hurts the customers, and that drivers/waiters/whoever acing shitty and tampering with your food or running you down for not tipping is absolutely unacceptable.

But using the service anyway while refusing to tip is fighting back in all the wrong areas. The company MADE THEIR MONEY by that point. It gives them NO INCENTIVE to change. And drivers WILL NOT JUST QUIT as a result of this; the desperate ones will be forced to stay, the others will just up their hours, work in different areas, or whatever; its a gig job, so as theyre free to set their own schedules and work areas, they will just adjust long before they'll go elsewhere. Likewise, they won't be "fired" if the company starts losing money, because they company doesn't pay them; they can have as many staff as they want, because it doesn't affect them in any way. Drivers get fired for being chronically late, or stealing/tampering with food. That's it.

So because the company won't fire anybody regardless of tips, driver's are unlikely to leave regardless of tips, and the company has no incentive to make changes, the only meaningful way to protest is to not use the service. If you're going to be hurting the driver either way, may as well hurt the company while you're at it.

Using it and not tipping is hurting the drivers and literally nobody else. Way to punch down and sacrifice the lowest on the totem pole to try to prove your point.

Yes, tipping culture is dogshit. But guess what, guys? That's the culture we currently have, so if you're going to partake in a tipped service, you, just like the service workers you sneer at, should know what you're signing up for. Either participate or don't partake. That's the social contract as it stands. Sucks, but if you break it, the affected parties are well within their rights to call you out on it.

kage_53 posted...

That literally is the only solution. Tipping is designed to be exploitive. Why do you think tipping culture is only a thing in America ? These companies (Uber, Lyft, doordash etc..) dont even consider the delivery person an employee but an independent contractor so they dont offer them any benefits as well.

How are you going to get the entire country to just stop tipping? All you're doing until you accomplish that is hurting people who aren't at fault for the situation. You need to go directly at the people who are responsible and hurt their wallet. And you need to do with laws and force behind those laws. Not a single one of these companies gives a fuck if their drivers don't get tipped. It's the same reason Amazon doesn't mind firing thousands of people every week. There are always more desperate saps to exploit.

I always tip cash when utilizing Doordash, uber, lyft, etc.

I'd get in trouble with this because I always tip in cash.

I don't trust delivery apps to give the money to the driver.

Father_ posted...

I always tip cash when utilizing Doordash, uber, lyft, etc.

This is more of a problem post-COVID because contactless delivery has become the dominant way of interacting with delivery drivers.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Using it and not tipping is hurting the drivers and literally nobody else. Way to punch down and sacrifice the lowest on the totem pole to try to prove your point.

Lazy fucks that have already made the concession that convenience is more important than money to them don't give two shits about the driver. That is all a smokescreen for their whining.

@hockeybub89

Then how would not tipping hurt the company if they're literally telling you that they don't care about the drivers?

No one has actually articulated how not tipping instigates change. The greedy company still makes their money. No one who needs to lose is losing.

No one has articulated why that should be the consumers problem beyond a bleeding heart that doesn't address its not required.

You feeling compelled to tip doesn't change its a mindset that is not actually required, while ignoring people who make less are still expected to tip. The 10/hour worker is still expected to tip the guy/girl making 11+/hour after tips.

Continuously telling people the bleeding heart story of why you think tipping is important doesn't change its not actually required of the consumer to tip. It's literally promoting a system that hopes someone feels generous to pay extra.

Your personal reasons why you think tipping is great is irrelevant.

The onus is 100% on the company. If you wish to tip, then go ahead and tip, but it's not my responsibility to tip. Its not my responsibility to make sure tipped workers make more than the grocery store cashier. It is not my responsibility to change a 100% voluntary system that people like you seem to also love.

DrizztLink posted...

I'd get in trouble with this because I always tip in cash.

I don't trust delivery apps to give the money to the driver.

You're right to be concerned. Uber Eats was found to be doing that (so was DoorDash, apparently). If a driver was given a pre-tip the service provider would then slash the base fee received and draw the money to make up the base from the tip until it was all paid out.

This was stopped after some point but the shadow has always hung in my mind.

RyukSan posted...

@hockeybub89
No one has articulated why that should be the consumers problem beyond a bleeding heart that doesn't address its not required.

You feeling compelled to tip doesn't change its a mindset that is not actually required.

Continuously telling people the bleeding heart story of why you think tipping is important doesn't change its not actually required of the consumer to tip. It's literally promoting a system that hopes someone feels generous to pay extra.

Your personal reasons why you think tipping is great is irrelevant.

The onus is 100% on the company. If you wish to tip, then go ahead and tip, but it's not my responsibility to tip. Its not my responsibility to make sure tipped workers make more than the grocery store cashier. It is not my responsibility to change a 100% voluntary system that people like you seem to also love.

Just don't complain when your food gets to you cold. You could have tipped but chose not to, putting you at a disadvantage against people that do tip.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Just don't complain when your food gets to you cold. You could have tipped but chose not to, putting you at a disadvantage against people that do tip.

I don't think anyone actually saying this can demonstrate that they've gotten poorer food turnaround times by tipping low. It's just something that sounds good on paper, in actual practice it's probably not nearly as nuanced.

I just get a kick out of the concept of these people at home looking at the tip function and thinking :

"Those poor drivers...I won't tip them for their own good! I'm such a caring person!"

Self-delusion is one hell of a drug.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Just don't complain when your food gets to you cold. You could have tipped but chose not to, putting you at a disadvantage against people that do tip.

First I don't have that problem when I eat at a restaurant, so I'm not worried. Second, even if it was delivered, there's this thing called a microwave or even a conventional oven.

Solid_Sonic posted...

I don't think anyone actually saying this can demonstrate that they've gotten poorer food turnaround times by tipping low. It's just something that sounds good on paper, in actual practice it's probably not nearly as nuanced.

The subreddit is full of drivers on those apps saying that they avoid non-tipped orders. If I can't trust the words of dashers themselves saying that they don't prioritize those orders then why should I listen to you when you insist that there's no proof it doesn't happen? If you can't trust the word of the drivers themselves then who should I listen to on the matter?

Sandalorn posted...

I just get a kick out of the concept of these people at home looking at the tip function and thinking :

"Those poor drivers...I won't tip them for their own good! I'm such a caring person!"

First mistake was thinking the people who dont tip have the same mindset as you that it's the customers obligation to make sure a company pays its staff above minimum wage.

Not here to fight a battle thay isn't my battle to fight. Nor is it my responsibility.