Current Events > No Tip Warning Appears On DoorDash In Updated Feature

(+) Yeah! (+)

Rika_Furude posted...

What if a delivery driver doesnt get a tip, and instead once they get to the customers house they light a trash can on fire or smash all the customers windows? Still the customers fault for ordering some food right?

Is this...a literal red herring? Or what fallacy is it called when you take what someone said completely out of context?

hockeybub89 posted...

I'm just pro tipping until we change society to where there is no need. Not tipping isn't going to eliminate tipping. It's just going to get people fired.

Not using the service will get people fired faster.

Xenogears15 posted...

Is this...a literal Red Herring?

People are arguing that the customer deserves their food spit in because its their fault or something. Just wanna see to what extent of harm do tip supporters want to see committed

Smashingpmkns posted...

"The problem is DoorDash they're an evil company taking advantage of workers"

Okay stop using it then

"No"

Lmao refusing to tip isn't a form of protest or isn't sticking it to DoorDash. The only people getting hurt from that is the driver. And not tipping en masse isn't going to cause drivers to quit, it'll just make the drivers work more to make up for the lack of tips.

Yes DoorDash sucks, but so do people who recognize that and still refuse to tip while using their service. Just stop using it! It's easy.

ive literally only used them twice, and I had to because the restaurant doesnt even have its own drivers anymore

I was drunk and couldnt drive and had a craving for steak and cheese

Rika_Furude posted...

How is that different from spitting in their food?

It's harder to hide.

But seriously, I don't believe in committing crimes in retaliation. There are plenty of other ways to deal with bad customers.

Why on earth should I pay extra money for delivery if there is literally a delivery charge already? For what am I paying?

hockeybub89 posted...

It's harder to hide.

But seriously, I don't believe in committing crimes in retaliation. There are plenty of other ways to deal with bad customers.

If they already paid all the fees they are the opposite of a bad customer

Rika_Furude posted...

How is that different from spitting in their food?

It's not, and that's both illegal and wrong, too.

The difference is that the food spitter is infinitely less likely to get caught, and thus will have fewer hangups about doing it.

Rika_Furude posted...

If they already paid all the fees they are the opposite of a bad customer

Spoken like someone who has never worked a service job. Bad customers are bad for a variety of reasons.

The term "Karen" didn't spontaneously materialize out of the ether.

reincarnator07 posted...

Why on earth should I pay extra money for delivery if there is literally a delivery charge already? For what am I paying?

Well the delivery fee is so that the company can get you a delivery person.

Then you have to pay the delivery person yourself on top of that.

For some reason.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Spoken like someone who has never worked a service job. Bad customers are bad for a variety of reasons.

The term "Karen" didn't spontaneously materialize out of the ether.

They dont call someone a Karen when all they did was pay for their meal and be on their way without a word. Ive never seen a single video about a notorious non-tipper being called Karen either so it seems like you just made that up

Rika_Furude posted...

They dont call someone a Karen when all they did was pay for their meal and be on their way without a word. Ive never seen a single video about a notorious non-tipper being called Karen either so it seems like you just made that up

I never said they did.

You said that someone couldn't be a bad customer if they paid their fees.

I was illustrating that the fees you pay are immaterial to your potential to be a good or bad customer.

Tipping culture will never go away until people stop tipping.

Tanthalas posted...

Tipping culture will never go away until people stop tipping.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/baccb1fe.jpg

Seems like a good warning to haveit would be unfair to the customer not to let them know that drivers will pick up or pass on orders based on the tip.

Rika_Furude posted...

If they already paid all the fees they are the opposite of a bad customer

That is what bad customers think too.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/baccb1fe.jpg

Doesn't change the truth of what I said.

If tipping is what makes working for doordash worth it, if tipping disappears people will no longer want to work for doordash.

Same thing for every other job out there that relies on tipping for people to want the job.

It's funny how you guys just ignore the reality that tipping practically doesn't exist in many (almost all?) countries.

Tanthalas posted...

It's funny how you guys just ignore the reality that tipping practically doesn't exist in many (almost all?) countries.

Nobody ignores that.

We just believe that making legislative change to do away with tipping will go a lot farther and a lot less painfully than choking desperate poor people off from what is currently their only source of revenue.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Literally nobody is "pro tip culture."

The only point of contention is whether deliberately starving some of the already poorest workers in the country out of their income is the best way to fix it.

No, it's not right that customers are paying wages that should come from the company. But, for now, that's how it is, and knowingly withholding that money exclusively from the people who need it, while still paying the overlords creating the problem, is still an asshole move.

sure but your only proposal for solution is to stop ordering and put them out of work all together.

that or have customers eat the cost which will lead right back to the first statement

Tanthalas posted...

Tipping culture will never go away until people stop tipping.

Objectively wrong. If everyone stopped tipping gratuities will just get automatically added.

Zeeak4444 posted...

sure but your only proposal for solution is to stop ordering and put them out of work all together

That or handle it legislatively.

But if we want to handwave away legislative reform as impossible, then if our only two choices are to:

1. hurt the workers exclusively, while making them perform for us, or

2. Hurt the workers without forcing them to perform, while also hurting the companies

Then I'd prefer option 2.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

I never said they did.

You said that someone couldn't be a bad customer if they paid their fees.

I was illustrating that the fees you pay are immaterial to your potential to be a good or bad customer.

Obviously

someone who paid their fees and never interacted with a driver is pre-emptively a bad customer before they ever interact with each other, somehow. And that justifies whatever hockey is suggesting is done to the customers food or home

Mr_Karate_II posted...

Drivers aren't entitled to a tip, period.

The whole compensation structure for food delivery drivers is structured on that. So unless the delivery person is at fault for an issue with the delivery, you should fucking tip them.

Not tipping because you don't believe in it only hurts the low wage worker, if you don't like the system, don't order from places that force workers to rely on a tipping system.

TheOtherMike posted...

Objectively wrong. If everyone stopped tipping gratuities will just get automatically added.

Good. Thats called paying your employees and the first world did that centuries ago. Dunno why America needs to be dragged kicking and screaming

Fair. Next.

I always turned down no tippers when I used to deliver for doordash. The pay without a tip is $3-5. Not worth it without a tip because id lose money on it.

Rika_Furude posted...

And that justifies whatever hockey is suggesting is done to the customers food or home

He didn't justify anything, and you brought up the hypothetical of a driver vandalizing a customer's home.

Rika_Furude posted...

Good. Thats called paying your employees and the first world did that centuries ago. Dunno why America needs to be dragged kicking and screaming

You do realize a mandatory gratuity is a forced tip, right?

hockeybub89 posted...

How are you going to get the entire country to just stop tipping? All you're doing until you accomplish that is hurting people who aren't at fault for the situation. You need to go directly at the people who are responsible and hurt their wallet. And you need to do with laws and force behind those laws. Not a single one of these companies gives a fuck if their drivers don't get tipped. It's the same reason Amazon doesn't mind firing thousands of people every week. There are always more desperate saps to exploit.

By electing politicians who would commit to raising the minimum wage and removing the independent contractor bs so they can have the save benefits as all other employees of the organization. If Im not mistaken that independent contractor bs was not upheld in the UKs courts.

Those companies would care if people would stop tipping. Nobody would do these gig jobs because the pay sucks so the only solution would be for the companies to increase their pay or fold.

Fair.

I love when CE talks about tips once a month and it's 8 pages of Mr Pink.

1: Delivery fee is not a tip, it's greedy corporations skimming on top.
2: Delivery drivers do not make a "wage". Let's say it's $2.83/h where I live, that is 100% and exclusively used to balance out taxes. You see none of that ever if you even hit "minimum wage" via tips coming in. Same with your waiter or bartender.
3: If. You. Don't. Agree. With. Tipping. Do. Not. Order. Takeout. Or. Eat. At. Restaurants.

Punishing the employee with no tip on your weak ass principles is hurting somebody who needs it to live, the business ownership does not give a fuck because you still ate there or used their services.

8 pages and no one talks about it or has any common sense once again.

C-zom posted...

8 pages and no one talks about it or has any common sense once again.

It's talked about plenty, the disconnect is the disagreement.

The moral superiority complex card is not an argument to those who don't agree with your argument in the first place.

Good, the scummy non/low tippers can deal with cold food or canceled orders.

RyukSan posted...

The moral superiority complex card is not an argument to those who don't agree with your argument in the first place.

To be completely fair there is no argument. Stiffing the lower end employee on a tip is not the answer. People are just like "but my burger combo is now $15, and grubhub charges $10 to deliver, why should I tip when I already tipped $10???" non-stop.

The only slight saving grace for me is knowing exactly what kitchen staff or delivery drivers do to the food when they get screwed over lol.

C-zom posted...

8 pages and no one talks about it or has any common sense once again.

You should actually read the pages before you say rings like this. Even skimming it you should have realized there would be no way this topic would get to 8 pages with everyone agreeing with each other.

Umbreon posted...

You should actually read the pages before you say rings like this. Even skimming it you should have realized there would be no way this topic would get to 8 pages with everyone agreeing with each other.

I'm just here to be mad.

C-zom posted...

To be completely fair there is no argument. Stiffing the lower end employee on a tip is not the answer. People are just like "but my burger combo is now $15, and grubhub charges $10 to deliver, why should I tip when I already tipped $10???" non-stop.

The only slight saving grace for me is knowing exactly what kitchen staff or delivery drivers do to the food when they get screwed over lol.

There is an argument, you just don't agree with it so you don't acknowledge it.

This isn't a new argument on this board and it has been discussed to death that not everyone agrees its the customers moral obligation or duty to foot the cost to make sure a companies staff is paid a wage you deem acceptable.

So the moral superiority complex card variant angle of "stiffing the lower end employees" is not an argument to those who don't agree with your argument in the first place.

RyukSan posted...

This isn't a new argument on this board and it has been discussed to death that not everyone agrees its the customers moral obligation or duty to foot the cost to make sure a companies staff is paid a wage you deem acceptable.

So don't use that company. You know tips are expected. If you don't want to tip don't use the service.

TheOtherMike posted...

So don't use that company. You know tips are expected. If you don't want to tip don't use the service.

This has been also addressed before.

You expecting a tip doesn't magically make them required if someone eats at a resteraunt. Nor does telling people not eat at a place how things actually work. If people stop eating at an establishment, it's not going to be a boon for the the workers, not that the argument of not eating there is an argument to begin with.

It is once again a moral superiority complex card that has no bearing on those who already don't agree with you.

it's also not legally required of me to not shit in the floor drain instead of the toilet in a public restroom.

But yall get real big fuckin mad at me when I do it.

RyukSan posted...

You expecting a tip doesn't magically make them required if someone eats at a resteraunt.

No one said it was required. What's being said is that it's the right thing to do.

RyukSan posted...

Nor does telling people not eat at a place how things actually work.

Yes, that's exactly how it works, unless you think we don't have a right to make suggestions in a public forum.

RyukSan posted...

If people stop eating at an establishment, it's not going to be a boon for the the workers

I'm not suggesting everyone stop eating at restaurants, just deadbeats.

RyukSan posted...

It is once again a moral superiority complex card that has no bearing on those who already don't agree with you.

I mean, it is objectively morally superior to abide by the established social contract, and opt out of the service if you dislike the expectation.

TheOtherMike posted...

No one said it was required. What's being said is that it's the right thing to do.

Which is where the disagreement originates from. Not everyone agrees its the right thing to do. As not everyone agrees the customer has a moral obligation or duty to tip.

TheOtherMike posted...

Yes, that's exactly how it works, unless you think we don't have a right to make suggestions in a public forum

You making a suggestion, doesn't change you saying don't eat a place is not how it actually works. Your suggestions are nothing more than that. Expecting those who don't want to tip, to not eat at a resteraunt is not how things actually work.

TheOtherMike posted...

mean, it is objectively morally superior

That isn't what objective means.

I remember when a tip was based on how good the service you received was. Now you are tipping before the service is even performed. That's the part that I think is fucked up.

RyukSan posted...

Which is where the disagreement originates from. Not everyone agrees its the right thing to do. As not everyone agrees the customer has a moral obligation or duty to tip.

Those people are wrong.

RyukSan posted...

You making a suggestion, doesn't change you saying don't eat a place is not how it actually works. Your suggestions are nothing more than that. Expecting those who don't want to tip, to not eat at a resteraunt is not how things actually work.

Not eating at a restaurant that expects tipping when you refuse to tip is exactly how it works for decent human beings.

RyukSan posted...

That isn't what objective means.

Yes it is.

RyukSan posted...

Expecting those who don't want to tip, to not eat at a resteraunt is not how things actually work.

If people hate these greedy businesses and want them to change, boycotting will hurt them far more than not tipping people that don't make the rules. If you don't abide by the social contracts of society or that establishment, then expect subpar service. What are you gonna do? Not tip them harder?

I tip 25% at restaurants

having to tip preemptively for delivery after paying $10 in fees is just complete bullshit.

Heavy_D_Forever posted...

I remember when a tip was based on how good the service you received was.

With the obvious exception of bad service, it has in fact never been like that. Tips have always been expected for table and delivery service in the US, at least in CE's lifetime.

TheOtherMike posted...

With the obvious exception of bad service, it has in fact never been like that. Tips have always been expected for table and delivery service in the US, at least in CE's lifetime.

Yes, but when I was younger and ordered a pizza you would tip the guy when he showed up with the Pizza. Now you tip them before they even started making the pizza. Tips should be given after the transaction is completed, not when the order is placed.

hockeybub89 posted...

If people hate these greedy businesses and want them to change, boycotting will hurt them far more than not tipping people that don't make the rules.

This has been addressed before as well that not everyone is on a mission to change a system they don't agree with.

Not everyone agrees its a customers moral obligation or duty to change tipping culture.

You can disagree with a system, no obligation to participate in a non required system, while not bothering to try to change a system.

RyukSan posted...

Not everyone agrees its a customers moral obligation or duty to change tipping culture.

Then it's their moral obligation to not use tipped services.

TheOtherMike posted...

Then it's their moral obligation to not use tipped services.

Non starter argument for reasons already said.

Rika_Furude posted...

Good. Thats called paying your employees and the first world did that centuries ago. Dunno why America needs to be dragged kicking and screaming

Then go someone where there are no Americans so you don't need to see our bullshit. Nobody in this fucking topic has been defending the corporations, but change takes time.

Ruining innocent people lives even harder until we systematically change America's economic system is not a solution.

Until that happens, tipping is morally obligated and workers have every right to file non-tippers right alongside every other bad customer. They deal with enough bullshit from their employers without taking it from customers too.

We need to help each other because no one else will. Clearly that is lost on "Where is that written down?" types.