Current Events > No Tip Warning Appears On DoorDash In Updated Feature

(+) Yeah! (+)

RyukSan posted...

Non starter argument to those dont agree with you for reasons already said.

Your "reasons" are wrong.

RyukSan posted...

This has been addressed before as well that not everyone is on a mission to change a system they don't agree with.

Not everyone agrees its a customers moral obligation or duty to change tipping culture.

You can disagree with a system, no obligation to participate in a non required system of tipping, while not bothering to try to change a system.

Non-sociopaths don't need to be obligated to follow social contracts and have basic human empathy.

But ok, not everyone values the same things. So you can understand people will not value your patronage very highly and treat you accordingly. Workers do not want to deal with sovereign citizen-type customers. What are you gonna do? Give them 1 star on Yelp? Sue?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Have you seen how crazy employees get?

hockeybub89 posted...

But ok, not everyone values the same things. So you can understand people will not value your patronage very highly and treat you accordingly. Workers do not want to deal with sovereign citizen-type customers. What are you gonna do? Give them 1 star on Yelp? Sue?

Ignoring your social construct that more in America don't support andor follow than you care to realize.

I don't use the likes of Dash or Uber because their prices are insane to begin with. Like you do know even entertaining your argument for a split second, eating at resteraunts dont all have you tipping before you get the meal right? So your argument wouldn't actually apply to me.

So your question really serves no purpose.

Ive only used this or ubereats three times

i even did the super tip or whatever to get my food first or earlier

Im okay with tip culture but tipping before you get your order is crazy

This got to 400 posts in a hurry

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Thinking that anything legal whatsoever is protecting you from spit in a burger, a dasher eating portions of your fries, the drink intentionally being "forgotten", picked absolute dead last in the delivery chain thus getting cold food, being put on a wall of shame/do not deliver board, etc is fantasy. You have zero protection for stiffing your delivery dudes.

Don't even get me started on the petty shit I've seen servers, bartenders, or god forbid you piss off the kitchen themselves in a real place.

Source: Restaurant management experience for 13 years.

1NfamousACE_2 posted...

tipping before you get your order is crazy

They have no guarantee of making money if you tip $0 and don't specify a cash tip in the comments. As stated above, they have no salary or wages that are dependable. They literally survive on the tips. If most delivery people see a $0 you're in some way, shape or form getting boned for that decision you made and thus -- like the TC -- apps are now warning *customers*, NOT drivers, that the risk is basically on them to potentially get the worst service in history (exonerating the app owners of any liability) for pulling that move.

hockeybub89 posted...

I'm sure the corporation you paid $20 to for a meal will realize the error of their ways because you refuse $3 to an innocent worker.

Punishing the worker will not tear down the system. You must continue to tip everyone while fighting to change the system by targeting those responsible. We can't let anyone innocent suffer in the interim.

You want to hurt the corporations, then don't give them any money at all. Protest at their corporate offices. Picket business entrances.

You only tip $3 on a $20 order? Now that's fucking scummy

C-zom posted...

They have no guarantee of making money if you tip $0 and don't specify a cash tip in the comments. As stated above, they have no salary or wages that are dependable. They literally survive on the tips. If most delivery people see a $0 you're in some way, shape or form getting boned for that decision you made and thus -- like the TC -- apps are now warning *customers*, NOT drivers, that the risk is basically on them to potentially get the worst service in history (exonerating the app owners of any liability) for pulling that move.

i understand the business model

but tipping is based on the service received and you have yet to receive a service when tipping on these apps

DarkBuster22904 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/baccb1fe.jpg

Let's all stop using this shitty service so more people can die huh

C-zom posted...

They have no guarantee of making money if you tip $0 and don't specify a cash tip in the comments. As stated above, they have no salary or wages that are dependable. They literally survive on the tips. If most delivery people see a $0 you're in some way, shape or form getting boned for that decision you made and thus -- like the TC -- apps are now warning *customers*, NOT drivers, that the risk is basically on them to potentially get the worst service in history (exonerating the app owners of any liability) for pulling that move.

they're still guaranteed to make money from their employer even if the tip is 0.

if that amount isn't enough, that's a problem they have with the employer. not with the consumer.

thronedfire2 posted...

they're still guaranteed to make money from their employer even if the tip is 0.

if that amount isn't enough, that's a problem they have with the employer. not with the consumer.

It comes out to the tax guarantee rate. For example where I live, it's $2.83/h. That amount covers your taxes on all tips to make your w2/99/whatever a hell of a lot easier at the end of the year.

They make no money outside of tips.

WingsOfGood posted...

Successful unions/protest actions lately:

Starbucks
UPS
Autoworkers
Writers Guild

If you're not using Doordash, Ubereats, etc. You're causing people to die faster

Sexypwnstar posted...

You only tip $3 on a $20 order? Now that's fucking scummy

That's 15%. I'd probably add a dollar personally.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Because you're not "opting out."

"Opting out" would be not using the service at all. Punishing the company inflicting it.

Using the service and not tipping isnt opting out, its opting in and saying "fuck you, got mine." It doesn't hurt the company or the system itself, it just hurts the poor schlub who has to now do the job for nothing, or even at a loss. And no, punishing the likely-already-poor gig worker is not going to encourage them to do something else, seeing as they're likely already desperate. Evidence: they saw your $2 for 6 miles tipless delivery and took it anyway.

No, it's not your problem. But there's the ethical way to protest, and the asshole way to protest, and using a tipped service and not tipping is squarely the latter.

No, you're not punishing the company by not using their service, you're punishing the worker/driver when there is little to no orders left and they have no means of survival

C-zom posted...

It comes out to the tax guarantee rate. For example where I live, it's $2.83/h. That amount covers your taxes on all tips to make your w2/99/whatever a hell of a lot easier at the end of the year.

They make no money outside of tips.

so they don't even have to pay out minimum wage if the tips don't at least add up to it?

again, that's a problem with the employer and the system. didn't these companies fail a vote to unionize?

Sexypwnstar posted...

No, you're not punishing the company by not using their service, you're punishing the worker/driver when there is little to no orders left and they have no means of survival

Calm down Ayn Rand.

thronedfire2 posted...

so they don't even have to pay out minimum wage if the tips don't at least add up to it?

again, that's a problem with the employer and the system. didn't these companies fail a vote to unionize?

These can both be accurate points. The corporations are taking advantage of a lot of legal loopholes to sustain a hilarious business model that lines their pockets and has a steadily declining economy of customers pressured into providing the salary for their drivers. People who stiff the driver/whoever and still order through the app are perpetuating the insanity.

hockeybub89 posted...

That's 15%. I'd probably add a dollar personally.

I tip but i hate the percentage thing even more.
I usually tip based on the miles away a place is on doordash. Like a dollar a mile generally.

As much as i hate tipping, i hate tipping based on percentages even more.
And i still follow the 20% thing in most cases.

all these works/changes in last few years and these gig companies are still refusing to change the tip to BID. Only need a single change to make it clear why your food is late/cold and drivers need a certain amount to even consider your order(min the same price as a gal of gas)

RyukSan posted...

Ignoring your social construct that more in America don't support andor follow than you care to realize.

I don't use the likes of Dash or Uber because their prices are insane to begin with. Like you do know even entertaining your argument for a split second, eating at resteraunts dont all have you tipping before you get the meal right? So your argument wouldn't actually apply to me.

So your question really serves no purpose.

Just make sure to never return to the restaurants after pissing all over the heads of the employees and you'll be fine. Though I don't know if your lack of morals, emotions, and social awareness will allow to comprehend why you should remember that.

Trevorkkho posted...

all these works/changes in last few years and these gig companies are still refusing to change the tip to BID. Only need a single change to make it clear why your food is late/cold and drivers need a certain amount to even consider your order(min the same price as a gal of gas)

Do these GIG tech tyrants want to hire experienced drivers to make reliable deliveries, or do they want to take advantage of working class insecurity and get randos to risk their own vehicles as an ad hoc workforce?

They set these technopolies up and rammed them through so fast, we never got the chance to properly regulate how they compensate employees. It's past due, and that's the problem that we must address here.

hockeybub89 posted...

Just make sure to never return to the restaurants after pissing all over the heads of the employees and you'll be fine. Though I don't know if your lack of morals, emotions, and social awareness will allow to comprehend why you should remember that.

Most workers appreciate tips, but don't walk around thinking they are entitled to one or else they open to committing crimes or doing some nefarious things behind the scenes to your food.

So I'm not worried.

Most people are not those social media viral stories, just like most woman are not the vixens red pill types paint to be.

I actually don't mind the practice of tipping for delivery (but then there really shouldn't be a "delivery fee", since that's just a way for the store to make extra money that doesn't go to the driver). IMO that's been a thing for quite some time, and I'm not sure why there's pushback against it now.

The stuff that's really obnoxious is:

-Self-serve food places asking for tips before your food has been given to you
-Asking for tips for take-out orders

You know where else you get food given to you for eat-in or take-out? A McDonald's. If you don't provide a level of service above a McDonald's...I don't see why a tip is warranted.

RyukSan posted...

but don't walk around thinking they are entitled to one or else they open to committing crimes or doing some nefarious things behind the scenes to your food.

So I'm not worried.

About that...

TheOtherMike posted...

He didn't justify anything, and you brought up the hypothetical of a driver vandalizing a customer's home.

You do realize a mandatory gratuity is a forced tip, right?

Hes already been saying that its not the only thing that can be done to bad customers. Again I dont respect what pro-tip slurpers have to say because it was pro-tip culture that got workers into the underpaid hellhole they are working in now.

a forced gratuity is literally called paying for your item and paying for your service. Paying employees is called a wage or salary.

It's just not CE without an ongoing 500 topic about tipping.

Tyranthraxus posted...

It's just not CE without an ongoing 500 topic about tipping.

Absolute shame that DP cant be here to enjoy this one

Holy shit. It's been forever since I've seen a one day 500 topic. Keep it going people.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/783715c5.jpg

Lets get an example of some orders tonight.. heres one

Probably $2.25 base, $3 tip.

CE_gonna_CE posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/783715c5.jpg

Lets get an example of some orders tonight.. heres one

Probably $2.25 base, $3 tip.

I mean that's not bad for 3 miles

Rika_Furude posted...

Hes already been saying that its not the only thing that can be done to bad customers.

Which doesn't change the fact that you and only you suggested anyone was justifying vandalizing homes. When you were the one who brought up vandalizing homes in the first place.

Rika_Furude posted...

Again I dont respect what pro-tip slurpers have to say because it was pro-tip culture that got workers into the underpaid hellhole they are working in now.

No, the customers are not responsible for how a business is structured.

Rika_Furude posted...

a forced gratuity is literally called paying for your item and paying for your service. Paying employees is called a wage or salary.

"Gratuity" means "tip." A forced gratuity is a tip you are required to pay because it's applied to your bill whether you like it or not. So when a gratuity is mandatory, you're okay with it, but when it's voluntary you rage? What sense does that make?

DarkBuster22904 posted...

That or handle it legislatively.

But if we want to handwave away legislative reform as impossible, then if our only two choices are to:

1. hurt the workers exclusively, while making them perform for us, or

2. Hurt the workers without forcing them to perform, while also hurting the companies

Then I'd prefer option 2.

I agree with you there for what its worth. Legislation would be best but for these discussions its best to stick to the individuals options.

I tip myself so its whatever but I dont agree with the mentality of dont order if you wont tip. When it comes down to it Im sure the majority of people would prefer to make shit money then no money at all.

overall I agree with the individuals decision to reject orders without tips or not. I think adjusting tips without having to specify a reason is stupid too and can be absurd. But when it all comes down to it I think saying people should just not work is dangerous and speaking from a place of privilege in most cases tbh.

I think its also important to differentiate between people in cities vs outside cities as theres no shortage of differences between the cases

Any driver who fucks with the food just because they didn't get a tip should be in jail, period. It takes a fucked up person to do that just because you think you're entitled to a tip.

TheOtherMike posted...

Which doesn't change the fact that you and only you suggested anyone was justifying vandalizing homes. When you were the one who brought up vandalizing homes in the first place.

No, the customers are not responsible for how a business is structured.

"Gratuity" means "tip." A forced gratuity is a tip you are required to pay because it's applied to your bill whether you like it or not. So when a gratuity is mandatory, you're okay with it, but when it's voluntary you rage? What sense does that make?

Plenty of people ITT think that non-tippers are scum of the earth and deserve being assaulted such as having their food spat in. Again its just questioning them to see how far they would take their assault. What difference is a it between spitting in someones food or throwing a rock in their window? People have justified spitting in their food amongst other things. Tip-demanders are not ethical people.

customers arent responsible for how a business employees are paid either

employees wages are the responsibility of the business, regardless of your acktchshually shit going on with the terminology of gratuity. If theres a choice between something costing $5 and the employee being paid without a tip, or the thing costing $2 and the only way for the employee to be paid is with a $3 tip, the former is better in 100% of cases, no exception.

Rika_Furude posted...

Plenty of people ITT think that non-tippers are scum of the earth and deserve being assaulted such as having their food spat in.

False.

Rika_Furude posted...

customers arent responsible for how a business employees are paid either

They are with a tipped pay structure.

Rika_Furude posted...

employees wages are the responsibility of the business, regardless of your acktchshually shit going on with the terminology of gratuity

Right, and going back on this specific thread of the discussion, if people stop tipping, then tipping will just be added to the bill whether you like it or not. So now that you know what these words mean, can you explain why you're ok with a tip automatically applied to your bill, but rage at the idea that you'd be expected to tip if it isn't automatically applied?

TheOtherMike posted...

False.

They are with a tipped pay structure.

Right, and going back on this specific thread of the discussion, if people stop tipping, then tipping will just be added to the bill whether you like it or not. So now that you know what these words mean, can you explain why you're ok with a tip automatically applied to your bill, but rage at the idea that you'd be expected to tip if it isn't automatically applied?

Did you read the topic? Post 32

there is never a scenario where the customer is responsible for paying the businesses employee on behalf of the business, not even with a tipping structure. You are simply wrong on this.

adding the tip to the bill is what civilised countries already did centuries ago and what America should have done. Its called paying for your food and then the business pays the employee. Thats how a business operates in the civilised world. It would only be a benefit to do that. There is no scenario where tipping is a better system than not tipping. Period.

Rika_Furude posted...

Did you read the topic? Post 32

Cool. Quote the post and bold the part where he said they "deserve being assaulted such as having their food spat in." Then quote at least three other users saying something similar.

Rika_Furude posted...

there is never a scenario where the customer is responsible for paying the businesses employee on behalf of the business, not even with a tipping structure. You are simply wrong on this.

You are wrong. Tipping structure means the customer is morally obligated to tip or else go elsewhere for their business.

Rika_Furude posted...

adding the tip to the bill is what civilised countries already did centuries ago and what America should have done.

So, again, and please try to read and comprehend the question this time because I simply cannot dumb it down any further:

Why is it ok for your bill to read:

Dinner - $20
Gratuity - $5
Total - $25

...but it makes you froth when the bill reads:

Dinner - $20
Tip - ____
Total - ____

Rika_Furude posted...

There is no scenario where tipping is a better system than not tipping. Period.

You are tipping in both scenarios, how are you not getting this?

I just love the hoops these people go through to avoid simply admitting that they are selfish and don't care about other people.

Mr_Karate_II posted...

I mean that's not bad for 3 miles

Except this wasn't a delivery only order, it was shop and deliver.

I wouldn't do it even if I were in next to the walgreen. 3.3 mile, city/resident speed limit is 25/30mph, so about 10 mins from store to drop off alone. Pharmacy item could range from grab and go to pain in the ass/hard to find on top of likeliness of out of stock(so you get pay for $2) Walgreen in my area has 2 employee on duty, no self check, need to call them to check out and put me for another 5 mins JUST FOR checking out.

This order would range from cancel -> 15-18mins -> 30mins. Would only do it if you were to doing bonus promo to do x orders in one day, not touching that with regular pay.

Rika_Furude posted...

Hes already been saying that its not the only thing that can be done to bad customers. Again I dont respect what pro-tip slurpers have to say because it was pro-tip culture that got workers into the underpaid hellhole they are working in now.

a forced gratuity is literally called paying for your item and paying for your service. Paying employees is called a wage or salary.

So if an extra $5 gratuity was tacked onto your bill, it's fine, but if it's a non-mandatory tip, it's horrible? And technically, you're paying someone's wages any time you go out, especially if it's a smaller business. Why is ok for them to require your money, but not for them to ask for it?

Again, some people in America currently work for tips. Until that changes, the moral thing is to help out the workers because they will be the only ones getting punished until things change. It's not going to happen overnight. I don't see how non-tipping is any different than other poor customer behavior that isn't literally illegal.

For example, in pharmacy, you may as a patient endure long lines or errors. You didn't create the mess, but neither did the worker. Taking out your frustration on them is your fault and will not actually fix the problem. All it is going to do is hurt the pharmacists and technicians, who have enough to stress over without you adding to the pile. You're not absolved because "Well their bosses created the scenario, so they take it up with them if they don't like me yelling at them!" You can be part of the problem without being the bulk of the problem.

And I specifically said I am against workers committing crimes to get back at people. There are plenty of non-criminal ways to make a point.

"Here's your $20 bill. Tips are generally 15-20%" = "How dare you! I'm not spending my money to pay your employees!"

"Here's your $30 bill. Gratuity is built in automatically." = "Here is my money, good sir. Thank you for the meal!"

It's like the problem is neither cost nor paying employees. It's something being optional, but expected that pisses people off.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

If you want to ignore the issue of a tip up front.

I tip my delivery drivers well, as it actually warrants a tip, unlike waiters and cashiers, but forcing you to tip before the actual delivery is bs. I always tip in cash, too.

Baha05 posted...

If you want to ignore the issue of a tip up front.

Delivery app tips are not tips at all. It's more like bidding on a contract. Money promised up front is not something unique to food delivery. And remember: DoorDash generally gives refunds with no questions asked.

hockeybub89 posted...

Delivery app tips are not tips at all. It's more like bidding on a contract. Money promised up front is not something unique to food delivery. And remember: DoorDash generally gives refunds with no questions asked.

Which again isnt a good thing and means people ignore the fundamental flaw of that system in favor of shaming the customer.

hockeybub89 posted...

Delivery app tips are not tips at all. It's more like bidding on a contract. Money promised up front is not something unique to food delivery. And remember: DoorDash generally gives refunds with no questions asked.

That's why the best fix without costing anybody anything is change the word from tip to bid on all gig delivery app. These apps won't even start to pump up the base pay till the order was already late. That alone would shut the people up who pretend not know the word was used two ways and claim high ground because of one.