Poll of the Day > Entry level job available. Requirements: 1 year in the field

(+) Yeah! (+)

Not really an entry level job, huh?

How does one gain experience when every experience requires experience >_>

One of the many ways employers filter out the stupid people.
Just apply.

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SamuelLJackdson posted...

How does one gain experience when every experience requires experience >_>

Have someone with tenure power level you.

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Judgmenl posted...

One of the many ways employers filter out the stupid people.
Just apply.

This. Most of the jobs Ive worked I didnt actually meet the minimum requirements. Just keep applying and eventually youll be in a situation where you seem at least ok and everyone else that applied was an idiot.

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Thanks for the advice.

Im finished grad school in summer and I'm just looking ahead at jobs now. I have no job experience related to the field Im going in (public health), so the preemptive job search has been pretty disheartening..

Just applying and maybe getting an interview is a good way to get your foot in the door as well. Sometimes theyll like you enough to give you a different job offer even if you dont have the experience for the position theyre looking to fill.

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Reminds me of the job listing requiring 5 years experience in a programming language that was less than a year old.

That's just so a company can say, "see there are no qualified candidates here" and then they can bring in H1Bs for way less wages.

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LuciferSage posted...

Reminds me of the job listing requiring 5 years experience in a programming language that was less than a year old.

That's just so a company can say, "see there are no qualified candidates here" and then they can bring in H1Bs for way less wages.

Is this 5 years of experience and experience in a programming language OR 5 years of experience with a programming language? 5 years is mainly there because it's probably a Senior level position (because it's like 5 years for Senior / 10-15 for principal), and they just list the languages that the team is using.

e.g. We do a lot of work in golang at my job, and I did not know go at all before starting. When I interview people, I don't expect them to know go as none of us knew go going into it.

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Zangulus posted...

It was 5 years in a specific language that hadnt been available for over a year. I saw multiple things about Apples newest language for IOS devices having this happen.

I remember the language being perl at the time, but it's an old game companies play in this regard.

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It's a shot in the dark, it's worth applying any ways because most entry level jobs ask for 3-5 years of experience. Depending on where you are you will be competing with people who have decades of experience looking for an entry level job because that is just how the modern job market is. Good luck standing out.

I had the lovely experience of job hunting in Michigan in 09.

In my STEM field entry level is 2.5-5 years experience depending on who you ask.

Depending on the job, you may be able to get some experience for your resume via a volunteer position.

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LuciferSage posted...

Reminds me of the job listing requiring 5 years experience in a programming language that was less than a year old.

That's just so a company can say, "see there are no qualified candidates here" and then they can bring in H1Bs for way less wages.

Exactly this!
I'm an Engineer, and I still bitterly remember all the "entry level positions" requesting 5 years of experience.
I found out later on it was for this nefarious purpose.
When companies tell Congress there "aren't enough STEM graduates" in the U.S. and they "need to expand" the H1B visa and other programs, it's because of this bs. It's a giant scam.
Nevermind all the instances of people getting laid off and forced to train their H1B replacements if they want to get a severance package, which really brazenly flaunts just how unnecessary those visas are.

One of the most publicized examples, but far from the only one:
https://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/technology/disney-h1b-workers/index.html

Zangulus posted...

This actually is a byproduct of the 2008 market crash.

This was a thing long before that.

I remember people making jokes 20 years ago that programmer jobs would ask for things like "10 years experience coding in Java" when Java had only existed as a language for 5 years. So literally no one on Earth could ever meet the requirements, unless they were time travelers.

The usual upshot of the "You can't get jobs in the field without experience, but you can't get experience without having jobs in the field" Catch-22 is that most of those jobs wind up getting filed by people clever or determined enough to lie about their qualifications and skilled enough to hide that fact.

It's made even worse when you consider a lot of those jobs will tell you they require X amount of prior experience, and then once you're hired they deliberately "untrain" you to forget all of your prior experience anyway, because they want you to do things THEIR way. So prior experience is almost more of a detriment than a plus.
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Zangulus posted...

You remember job postings from 1988?

LuciferSage posted...

it's an old game companies play in this regard.

Do try and keep up between shots at red lights.

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I like the ones that require a bachelors degree. If I could afford an education, I wouldnt be looking for a job.

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So how do I get experience? Gonna need that job to get that experience bro!!! >_>

SamuelLJackdson posted...

Not really an entry level job, huh?

Technically it'd still be entry level, the fact that it requires -- or at least asks for -- a small amount of experience doesn't change that.

SamuelLJackdson posted...

How does one gain experience when every experience requires experience >_>

Either find some place without the req, build an equivalent experience, or convince somebody to take a chance on you.

LuciferSage posted...

Reminds me of the job listing requiring 5 years experience in a programming language that was less than a year old.

That's just so a company can say, "see there are no qualified candidates here" and then they can bring in H1Bs for way less wages.

tbh, I remember a creator of a program commenting on how he didn't meet the reqs to use that program at a company.

And the other "great" thing about H1Bs is that you can strong-arm them into staying with your company because it's a condition of their immigration status. They literally can't work for anybody else (well, at least not without jumping through a ton of hoops)

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Zeus posted...

tbh, I remember a creator of a program commenting on how he didn't meet the reqs to use that program at a company.

Yes, I remember this. He wrote a JavaScript framework (or something) about 3 years ago. He saw a job posting requiring 7 years experience in that framework.

Zeus posted...

And the other "great" thing about H1Bs is that you can strong-arm them into staying with your company because it's a condition of their immigration status. They literally can't work for anybody else (well, at least not without jumping through a ton of hoops)

lets just call it what it is, modern day indentured servitude.

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Judgmenl posted...

One of the many ways employers filter out the stupid people.
Just apply.

LMAo

I know what you mean. That's the trouble I've been running into.

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When it comes to the programming language thing I suspect at least some of the time it's clueless managers/high-ups hearing they need someone who knows a programming language but knowing nothing about it so they just put out 'five years experience' assuming that, if they NEED someone who knows the language, it's a common language that's been out for at least that long (or else they wouldn't be using it).

Course I fully agree with Zeus that, a lot of the time, it's to cheese the system to take advantage of immigrant labor.

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LuciferSage posted...

I remember the language being perl at the time, but it's an old game companies play in this regard.

I dont know about that one, but I did see a thread (Twitter I think) where a guy screenshotted a posting requiring something like 5 years in a specific coding language. The thing was the language was only a couple of years old and he was the one that invented it.

Usually schooling is considered a substitution for experience so if you've got a degree in it, you're probably fine.

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The state of the job market in America

Wanted: Cashier

Requirements: 5 years experience
Capable of speaking English, Spanish, French, French Creole, German, Greek, Ancient Greek, Italian, Swahili, Hindi, and High Elven
A minimum of a 4 year degree in Astrophysics, Economics, Medicine, Robotics, and Underwater Basket Weaving.
Responsibilities: Stay up way past your quitting time for no OT stocking, restocking, doing electrical work, dealing with problematic customers, retiling the shop, doing plumbing work, and carrying around your manager piggy-back style on command.

Hours: 80 hours a week. No OT, you get 5 PTO days a year and 2 sick days that require a doctors note (and we'll still harass you over it).
Pay: $4.98/Hr
Promotion: PHAHAHAHAHA! All upper management positions are filled by the manager, his mistress, and family/friends of the manager. If you're lucky you might get promoted to working the freezer/back shelves where you don't have to deal with customers.
Job Security: The only reason you're not replaced is because ICE is breathing down our necks so we can't hire Jose' for $3.00 an hour without them noticing.

And, of course, if you actually get hired you'll be told there isn't enough money in the budget for a raise/bonus while the manager drives around in a new car.

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Zangulus posted...

This actually is a byproduct of the 2008 market crash. So many people lost their jobs and were forced to take any job they could find. So youd have seriously over qualified people in entry level jobs, ipso facto, now employers want first level employees to have skills.

But also, just apply.

I was 19 at the time and didnt fully grasp the economy at the time. But what opened my eyes to the severity of it was being a shift supervisor at a CVS Pharmacy and receiving cashier applications from people with Bachelors degrees. I couldnt fathom why people that graduated college were applying for an $8/hour position..

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fightin_irish42 posted...

I was 19 at the time and didnt fully grasp the economy at the time. But what opened my eyes to the severity of it was being a shift supervisor at a CVS Pharmacy and receiving cashier applications from people with Bachelors degrees. I couldnt fathom why people that graduated college were applying for an $8/hour position..

That actually happened before then. I worked at walmart before the collapse when I was 18 or 19 and multiple coworkers had associate and bachelor degrees because it was simply impossible to get a job in their field.

we never actually recovered from the crash of '08, and this printing 2 trillion a quarter is totally unsustainable by any metric.

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