Board 8 > New smash character tomorrow

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dude didn't even make the Villains Contest

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4317-who-is-your-all-time-favorite-nintendo-villain

No one cared about him

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KamikazePotato posted...

The biggest Smash Bros meme character is easily K-Rool

That one actually got enough support to get in but without constant Smash requests zero people would care about him

K. Rool became a popular request because

A. People wanted another Donkey Kong character and he quickly gained traction as the main villain.
B. People have been itching for his return since he/the Kremlings were left out of the Returns games.
C. People wanted more villains in general.

There was actual substance to it, as opposed to stuff like Isaac and Geno where the games they come from are long since dead and buried.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Dude didn't even make the Villains Contest

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4317-who-is-your-all-time-favorite-nintendo-villain

No one cared about him

I don't think this actually proves what you think it proves. Everybody on there that did better than him was already in Smash prior to him, outside of Giovanni and Ridley, and Ridley/K. Rool were the biggest fan pushes heading into Ultimate, which suggests... People wanted villains and were championing the two most realizable that had yet to appear.

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StealThisSheen posted...

A. People wanted another Donkey Kong character and he quickly gained traction as the main villain.

This is 90% of the reason. "I want another Donkey Kong character" + "I want another villain in Smash" = K. Rool. People simply did not care about him until he became a character that ticked all the boxes to fill an obligatory Smash quota that fans put on themselves because they were salty Fire Emblem got more characters than their favorite series.

There was actual substance to it, as opposed to stuff like Isaac and Geno where the games they come from are long since dead and buried.

Isaac has been in more recent games than K. Rool has. The fact that you point out people want him to 'return' and then cite other characters as being 'dead and buried' is...not great logic.

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As an Isaac supporter I WILL say that many/most of us are leftover from when we wanted him in Brawl, when his series was still relatively fresh.

As far as K. Rool fans go, all I'll say is that from the announcement of Smash 4 until his reveal in Ultimate, his fans were, 100%, bar none, the most obnoxious and unbearable of any character's fans, at least on this site's Smash boards. When Corrin was revealed, the Smash 4 board on this site became completely unreadable (and stayed that way until the Ultimate board opened) because the K. Rool fans relentlessly posted, every single minute, about how he was robbed of his "deserved" spot.

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KamikazePotato posted...

This is 90% of the reason. "I want another Donkey Kong character" + "I want another villain in Smash" = K. Rool. People simply did not care about him until he became a character that ticked all the boxes to fill an obligatory Smash quota that fans put on themselves because they were salty Fire Emblem got more characters than their favorite series.

Isaac has been in more recent games than K. Rool has. The fact that you point out people want him to 'return' and then cite other characters as being 'dead and buried' is...not great logic.

The point was that his series wasn't dead and buried, hence he has something to actually return to, unlike Isaac.

And if people didn't like K. Rool, Dixie would've done better than him, or one of the Returns villains for the sake of being more recent and therefore potentially more "possible."

All that you're doing is trying to dismiss the reasons K. Rool became a popular pick. That doesn't make him a meme pick. What makes something a meme pick is if it's a meme to begin with (Waluigi), or maybe if it's something people are holding on to just for the sake of it (Isaac, Geno) as they've been denied over and over again.

EDIT: To be clear, I don't necessarily agree Isaac and Geno are "meme" picks, but they fit it better than K. Rool did, certainly.

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Yeah I don't buy that in the slightest. I didn't seen a single person go "I want K Rool in Smash so he can get in the next Donkey Kong game!" and I was glued to the Smash fanbase for YEARS. It was a bandwagon, and easily the most successful in Smash history. People like him a lot now because they discovered the character for the first time and like him, but other than that he was minor.

Let me put it a different way: GameFAQs is a good barometer of Nintendo popularity, and Isaac at the peak of his strength demolishes K. Rool at the peak of his strength (pre-Ultimate).

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Dixie didn't do well because we already had Diddy, and frankly speaking people don't actually give two shits about any of the DK characters that aren't Donkey Kong. Diddy is easily the second-most popular in the series and his one contest claim to fame is this:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3258-division-4-round-1-alucard-falcon-diddy-kratos-a

K. Rool got popular because he was an anti-meta pick - a villain with a unique design from a popular series with 'only' two characters in it. There was some lingering attachment from the games he was in and the cartoon and whatnot, but for a very long time he simply wasn't in the collective consciousness whatsoever.

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I mean, K. Rool's push began after a poll that nobody saw the results of for months. It's hard to bandwagon something like that, he legit did great in that poll.

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K. Rool was getting a push long before that. The moment that Robin and Lucina revealed, actually. I can't express how much that day changed the trajectory of the Smash fanbase. People simply could not deal with the fact that Fire Emblem had more representation than Donkey Kong (and Zelda, and Metroid...) and it hasn't gotten any better since then!

He also got a fairly big bump in popularity when Ridley was revealed as a boss battle in Smash 4. People somewhat gave up hope on Ridley, leading to K. Rool being the new push for villain representation in Smash. Then the Smash ballot dropped. He'd built up more legitimate fans by then, but most of it boiled down to extremely good timing and taking advantage of a situation.

Isaac was popular for longer, had been in more recent games, was barely less popular even at K. Rool's peak...but Japan doesn't like Golden Sun that much so he was doomed from the start. As far as the US fanbase goes, he's always had equal claim to representation as Banjo does using all the metrics Smash fans trot out. He was two games (then three! one more than Banjo, even!) years that sold about the same.

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You're missing the point.

Isaac didn't START as a meme push, but he became a "meme" push over time because people aren't pushing for Isaac because "Man I loved him in the recent Golden Sun game!" anymore. They're pushing for him because they've been pushing since Brawl and just haven't given up. Nobody joining the Isaac or Geno pushes TODAY is joining because they actually have any reason for it other than... It's a popular push. People had reasons to join the K. Rool push beyond just "Well, this is what's currently the big push."

Reasons to join the K. Rool push leading up to his reveal:
A. Villain, which the game was lacking at the time
B. Donkey Kong character while Donkey Kong is still an active, current series.

Reasons to join the Isaac or Geno pushes today:
???

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Nobody's joining (or has joined) the Isaac push for a very long time. It's consistently been Golden Sun fans and nothing else because the Smash fanbase is anathema to anime swordsman and RPGs they haven't played. He's not a character where you look at him and go "Yeah, he should get in!" unless you're a personal Golden Sun fan. It's very easy to attach yourself to K.Rool bandwagon because he has a unique design and comes from a series you know. I'd say significantly more people have supported K.Rool and not played a Donkey Kong game than people who supported Isaac and never played Golden Sun.

Like you're acting like Isaac has this big bandwagon going on when the most recent poll has him at 13th. People gave up a while back once the Assist Trophy came out.

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By next Smash Isaac will be as old as Mr. Game & Watch was in Melee so he can totally be the "old-school" pick

>_>

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Although I guess at this point we're conflating the terms Meme and Bandwagon.

Biggest Bandwagon pick is K. Rool.
Biggest Meme is Waluigi. Yes, I know he probably isn't getting in.

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To be fair, I'd argue K. Rool isn't even the biggest bandwagon pick, either. That was definitely Ridley, since people jumped on that bandwagon like crazy after "he's too big."

Not that I see how being a "bandwagon" pick is bad. Every character that ever had a big push has been a bandwagon pick just by virtue of people jumping on because "Oh yeah that would be cool"

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https://twitter.com/MattMcMuscles/status/1311740398340108304?s=19

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KamikazePotato posted...

Let me put it a different way: GameFAQs is a good barometer of Nintendo popularity

Lol.

Oh wait are you serious?

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Even though I mention that Golden Sun isn't exactly obscure and many people my age know/remember it, it definitely skews more popular on GameFAQs. Look at the X-stats for any contest Isaac has been in. He tends to land around the fodder line, usually finishing well ahead of some much more mainstream names. Hell, the first Golden Sun once beat San Andreas 1v1!

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DeepsPraw posted...

like Geno, Isaac is a SSB meme. A vocal minority of dedicated fans constantly brought him up so much that he became part of the tapestry of smash culture. So today zoomers request him without really knowing why

To be clear this is exactly how it feels. It's just so stupid I really hope its not true

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people request him because they saw him as an assist trophy and I guess that makes him closer than others

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Punnyz posted...

people request him because they saw him as an assist trophy and I guess that makes him closer than others

now let's upgrade Goemon's mii costume instead

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Waluigi1 posted...

Lol.

Oh wait are you serious?

He's not wrong. Our Nintendo hierarchy is probably pretty similar to what it would be on any site that has a dedicated Nintendo fanbase.

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The Crash boost we saw in 2013 was nostalgia coming through along with the fact that he stopped getting trash games.

He definitely boosted further from the remakes though, those were a huge success.

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Yawl talking about all the big popular bandwagons and memes, and I'm just sitting here hoping Gordon Freeman gets in.

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I think part of Crash's support (in addition to the remakes) is the rivalry factor. The face of Sega made it in, so it would be great in a nostalgic sort of way if the face of 32/64 bit era Sony also made it in. It's a dream come true for anyone who grew up in the late 90s to have Mario, Sonic and Crash Bandicoot finally fight it out.

As far as Golden Sun - yeah, it seems a lot of Isaac's support is leftover from when he was more relevant, but Golden Sun isn't that obscure of an RPG. It's way less obscure than Earthbound was when Ness got in and probably less obscure than Xenoblade when Shulk got in.

The real question is how did Doom Guy (Doom) & Reimu (Touhou) get so much support? I have never even heard of Reimu.

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cyko posted...

I think part of Crash's support (in addition to the remakes) is the rivalry factor. The face of Sega made it in, so it would be great in a nostalgic sort of way if the face of 32/64 bit era Sony also made it in. It's a dream come true for anyone who grew up in the late 90s to have Mario, Sonic and Crash Bandicoot finally fight it out.

As far as Golden Sun - yeah, it seems a lot of Isaac's support is leftover from when he was more relevant, but Golden Sun isn't that obscure of an RPG. It's way less obscure than Earthbound was when Ness got in and probably less obscure than Xenoblade when Shulk got in.

The real question is how did Doom Guy (Doom) & Reimu (Touhou) get so much support? I have never even heard of Reimu.

Doomguy for a few reasons:

1. Because the reboot was so good and the character himself was completely awesome in it.
2. Pete Hines from Bethesda saying they had discussed Smash with Nintendo. As well as teasing Doom stuff in general. None of which came ended up meaning anything in the long run.
3. The 5chan leak which had Joker, Erdrick, Steve, Ryu Hayabusa and Doomguy on it. People bought it for a while because 5chan is Japanese (why would Japan talk about Doom coming to Smash?), and because other insiders had heard about Erdrick (which ended up being true later with Hero). This is despite coming right after Joker's reveal and not before. People bought it further when Vergeben said he believed that Minecraft stuff might have been leakbait for Banjo & Kazooie. Of course, we got Terry and Byleth instead of Ryu Hayabusa or Doomguy.
4. The Cacomallow leak. Videos of a Mii Costume leak that seemed too good to be faked or modded, were released on 4chan. Those being a Cacodemon from Doom and Mallow from Super Mario RPG. The leak has yet to be disproven despite being released almost a year ago now. People believed that either Doomguy was likely #5 and Geno a bonus Fighter, or both were coming later after the first Fighters Pass. This has yet to happen.

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I assume Reimu is because Touhou fandom is a huge fandom in Japan with tons of fan art/music/games etc.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Dude didn't even make the Villains Contest

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4317-who-is-your-all-time-favorite-nintendo-villain

No one cared about him

fucking andross lmao

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Also we're acting like Nintendo characters need the same level of clout as third party ones?

Like wtf else Nintendo character left wouldn't be a "bandwagon" if they're not on the most popular wanted? Just something no one ever asks for?

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Stop wanting in characters I don't want

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Hbthebattle posted...

Stop wanting in characters I don't want

This tbh

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And I think you guys are underestimating the ability of Smash to popularize or revive floundering series. Kid Icarus got a new game after decades of dormancy. Fire Emblem became a known name in the West. Xenoblade became a major Nintendo franchise. A "Smash Boost" isn't just limited to a GameFaqs contest, you know. Isaac isn't even the only example of this, characters like Chibi-Robo or whoever have a fanbase for a similar reason: fans of their game hope by them having enough popularity to get in Smash, it'll show Nintendo there's still an audience for the series.

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Here's a moveset I made for Isaac back in 2014. It even has a little bit of a gimmick that seems to be the trend with DLC characters.

A - A horizontal swipe with his sword
AA - A horizontal swipe with his sword in the opposite direction
AAA - An overhead vertical slash with his sword

Forward Tilt - A light blast of rocks in front of him
Up Tilt - some light magic that causes some continuous damage (1-2% per second for a few seconds)
Down Tilt - A light rumble of rocks beneath him

Forward Smash - A heavy blast of rocks in front of him
Up Smash - A strong, 180 degree overhead sword slash
Down Smash - creates a circle of stone spires from the ground around him

Dash - Tuck-and-roll ending with a sword strike

Neutral Air - same as A
Forward Air - a strong sword attack
Back Air - a back-kick
Up Air - Sends a sprout of vines up above him
Down Air - Drops a stone spire below him

Grab - Isaac creates a small hand in the air which grabs the opponent and brings them to him
Pummel - an overhead fist attack
Forward Throw - Isaac tosses his opponent forward, but not without a nice attack from his sword first
Back Throw - the hand reappears and swiftly tosses the opponent behind him, while Isaac kicks them away
Up Throw - Isaac tosses the opponent above him and sends some vines their way
Down Throw - Isaac slams the opponent down, creating a rumble of rocks as well.

Neutral B - Ragnarok - A chargeable sword attack similar to Ike's Neutral B, but Isaac holds his sword pointing down to the ground over his head, and when it connects it creates a spire on the ground
Side B - Move - A mini variation of his AT move
Up B - Teleport - Isaac disappears and in that brief moment you can control the direction in which he will reappear
Down B - Equip Flint - Here's the gimmick. Anyone who has played Golden Sun will immediately recognized how it relates at least somewhat to the way that the Djini are used in battle. When Isaac presses Down B he equips his most famous Djini, Flint, who hovers around him now, signifying that he is equipped. Having Flint equipped does two things - it decreases the damage and knockback that Isaac receives from opponents' attacks, and it makes his Smash and B attacks measurably stronger. However, once a Smash or B attack is used with Flint equipped, regardless of if it makes contact, he becomes unequipped, and cannot be reequipped for a while (not sure what a well-balanced amount of time would be, but I'd say 10 seconds would be reasonable). If Isaac uses Down B while Flint is already equipped, Flint can do an attack, just like he can in the games.

Final Smash - Judgment - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CMHy3eRrRo

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Hbthebattle posted...

And I think you guys are underestimating the ability of Smash to popularize or revive floundering series

let's go KOS-MOS

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KamikazePotato posted...

Dude didn't even make the Villains Contest

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4317-who-is-your-all-time-favorite-nintendo-villain

No one cared about him

not fair, he was SFFd by Bowser

I mean I love the guy, but if I have to choose between K. Rool and Bowser, I gotta go Bowser
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Dedede really hasn't been a villain since like the mid 90s. Other than the TV show and the Battle Royale game, in every "villain" appearance he's had since the 90s he's been brainwashed or otherwise controlled by the big bad.

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Hell, I'm pretty sure Dedede's only an actual villain in the very first game.

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pjbasis posted...

Also we're acting like Nintendo characters need the same level of clout as third party ones?

Like wtf else Nintendo character left wouldn't be a "bandwagon" if they're not on the most popular wanted? Just something no one ever asks for?

Lyn is arguable the most popular pre-Three Houses Fire Emblem character. She's effectively the West's Marth and is also popular in Japan on top of that.

Eevee has been getting a push by the Pokemon Company in recent years and is also a naturally popular character on top of that. Gengar, Gardevoir and Garchomp are also good choices.

People would get mad if they actually got added to Smash.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Hell, I'm pretty sure Dedede's only an actual villain in the very first game.

Hes a villain in Super Star too (but that part of the game is just remaking the first game so barely counts I guess )

also like... Kirbys Avalanche probably? I think he was bad in some spin-off stuff

but yeah, probably not an actual villain at any point in this millennium
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I would love to see a reimagining of Golden Sun with new Isaac coming in but that's just a pipe dream

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would he count as a bad guy in Gourmet Race or is he just a friendly rival

And he was the bad guy in one of the new games they added to Super Star Ultra

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DeDeDe was the villain in the cartoon, well sorta

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Chaeix posted...

I would love to see a reimagining of Golden Sun with new Isaac coming in but that's just a pipe dream

Only if they actually bother to put part 1 and 2 in one game
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bad news keeps comin' :(

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no Travis then huh

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That Bomberman costume is pretty great tho.

But yeah, RIP Travis.
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I can't believe they deconfirmed Tower of Druaga guy

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Cya Travis

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ViolentAbacus posted...

C'mon Travis Touchdown!

You got it!

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that's a painful tease for the top of the page no context :'(

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