Poll of the Day > European aristocracy

(+) Yeah! (+)

Where and how did the aristocracy in Europe begin?

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When a mommy proto-aristocrat loves a daddy proto-aristocrat...

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Read the bible.

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Basically after the fall of the Roman empire rich people built giant castles to protect themselves from the barbarians, and the poor people offered their services to be let in and protected by the rich.

500 years later and the whole deal kind of spiralled out of control.

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BUMPED2002 posted...

Where and how did the aristocracy in Europe begin?

The Roman Catholic Church

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I'm pretty sure the concept of aristocracy predates the roman republic, let alone the roman empire...

Also castles don't tend to be giant. Fantasy castles are fairly misleading to how big real castles are.

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PMarth2002 posted...

I'm pretty sure the concept of aristocracy predates the roman republic, let alone the roman empire...

Well yea, in ancient Egypt the priests were basically aristocracy. A lot of ancient civilizations had a ruling class that was comprised of powerful commanders and religious speakers.
It's almost as if the best way to control the ignorant masses is to control them.

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It existed during the bronze age, so yeah, it predated the greeks and romans. The tech wasn't as advanced (the chariot was basically the high end unit of the time, as horses large enough to carry armored warriors weren't bred yet).
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It began at different times and in different places across Europe. Of course, feudal aristocracies caught on because centralized control was weak so kings were stuck relying on individuals who swore loyalty to them and, in turn, those individuals relied on people who swore loyalty to them.

Dikitain posted...

Basically after the fall of the Roman empire rich people built giant castles to protect themselves from the barbarians, and the poor people offered their services to be let in and protected by the rich.

500 years later and the whole deal kind of spiralled out of control.

As for the evolution of *castles*, that's a completely different story. The original castles were just fortified dwellings for lords. They were also ridiculously small. Over time they grew and their functions became more versatile, where a castle could provide a tactical advantage for skirmish tactics, allowing small groups to go out, attack, and then have a secure facility to retreat to.

Contrary to what you see in fantasy, most castles are relatively small and generally held by a skeleton crew. In the case of a long siege, a lord would try to reduce headcount within the castle walls, not bring more people in. Keep in mind that sieges could last years and the availability of food would become an issue. (And a land could effectively be taken over without actually taking over a castle.)

Plus towns frequently had walls anyway so commoners already had barriers to protect them. The protection that lords offered was more a matter of military, although the main thing they offered commoners -- in most areas anyway -- was the use of land. The lords (and their vassals) owned the land and, at times, the people on it. In the case of a transfer of land, the people who worked the land generally went with it. If it sounds a lot like slavery, you wouldn't be entirely mistaken. Peasants in many systems couldn't even marry without a lord's permission (however the law of "Prima Nocta" or whatever is generally believed to be bullshit).

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BUMPED2002 posted...

Where and how did the aristocracy in Europe begin?

Basically when Europe was founded, and in Europe

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Depending on how you define "aristocracy", it's been around since forever.

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Yeah, it kinda existed there before any form of the origin words that led to "europe" being a name/term/word/etc came about.
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