Board 8 > If you use rewind/save state to finish a game, did you beat it?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ehh I wouldnt make fun of somebody for using a rewind feature or anything. A lot of those older games are tough and also just have weirdness to them where it looks like you should have grabbed that ledge you jumped towards, but your body phased through it for some reason or you hit jump and it just didnt register or whatever else

wg64Z posted...

If your only playing to advance the story you could always just watch a silent LP on YouTube.

I would still like to actually play the game. I just don't need crushing difficulty to enjoy it or feel a sense of accomplishment.

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wg64Z posted...

I don't care, in fact if it helps people play some of the classic retro games I'm all for it. Doesnt mean I'm gonna consider it a win if they cheat to do it.

You clearly do care and it's really weird.

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My personal thing is that if its in the official game/system (like 3ds save states for older games) anything goes.

If its external source like Gameshark, hacking, or emulators with Rewinds/Save states a little more debatable

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No one is saying you can't have fun if you use save states to beat the game, I don't see why people always get these things confused.

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lordjers posted...

No one is saying you can't have fun if you use save states to beat the game, I don't see why people always get these things confused.

I like how you said "beat" in this post, acknowledging that it's still beating the game if you use save states.
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Mac Arrowny posted...
I like how you said "beat" in this post, acknowledging that it's still beating the game if you use save states.

Semantics. Technically you would also "beat" the game if you walked into your friend's room and he let you perform the final strike against the final boss of a game you've just seen, but really now.

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Dels posted...

i mean i think it depends on context

if you're just chatting with someone about which games you've gotten through you don't wanna be like "i didn't beat celeste" "oh okay i won't talk about the ending then" "no no i saw the ending and credits, i got to the end, i just didn't beat it because i used accessibility mode"

but if someone is like "have you beaten 7C in celeste" you probably wouldn't wanna say "yeah i beat it" if you did it with invincibility on because then you're being misleading

this exactly
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Isnt this the fucking Minecraft with Gadget guy
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lordjers posted...

No one is saying you can't have fun if you use save states to beat the game, I don't see why people always get these things confused.

Probably because turning a hobby into a pointless flexing competition is the very definition of 'not fun'

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This is some extreme way of gatekeeping.

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lordjers posted...

Semantics. Technically you would also "beat" the game if you walked into your friend's room and he let you perform the final strike against the final boss of a game you've just seen, but really now.

what a totally practical real-world example that matters

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Nintendo is selling these games with rewind and save state features so its clearly an intended way to play at least nowadays.

Would you consider beating a game on Easy to be beating the game? Of course you would. This is the same shit.
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https://twitter.com/jimsterling/status/1211274715286966272?s=21
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I figure a lot of this argument comes from the pride we as gamers in the '80s and '90s felt from not only beating our games but also...

1) Beat at a time when developers were still learning how to train their players. We had to learn the hard way on so many games -- Let's Plays weren't around to show us, nor were there as many other similar games for us to learn from.

2) Beat at a time when developers haven't gotten away from the gimme-all-your-coins arcade mentality. Extra lives, continues, non-rechargeable shields...these definitely still exist and have a place in gaming, but there are players who just don't like these restrictions as much.

3) Beat at a time when glitches were more common. We had to work around developer oversights more.

4) Beat at a time when there weren't as many great or tough games as there are today. It was a bigger deal to beat our games then because we were seeing more or less every game that came out since the industry crashed. Why should Topher McNewperson care as much about Contra in this next decade as we once did?

5) Beat at a time when playing video games were still socially looked down upon. I still remember getting beaten up for knowing what Metroid was -- now Markoplier has a career. Yeah, I'll be a bit defensive about how tough video games were growing up because their difficulties went beyond the games.

...so I get the defense and I still hold onto the pride I had with beating certain games growing up (including Battletoads, I see you naysayers!). Still, I see most of this defense tied to ego. I can separate ego enough to see the difference between IF they beat a game and HOW they beat a game, and that's the line I think we're talking about here.

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150% yes.

If you beat the game, you beat the game.

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I would absolutely make fun of someone for beating a game on baby mode

are we pretending to be mature now or something

what is with this topic lol

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

150% yes.

If you beat the game, you beat the game.

Right. Except not because one way you cheated. So the game beat you.

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wg64Z posted...

Except not because one way you cheated. So the game beat you.

calm down

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LeonhartFour posted...

calm down

games are serious business

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MariaTaylor posted...

I would absolutely make fun of someone for beating a game on baby mode

are we pretending to be mature now or something

what is with this topic lol

I mean you can make fun of someone for playing on easy mode (most people make fun of ertyu for using the absolute loosest definition of the "word" "beated")

but I wouldn't say it didn't mean they didn't actually beat the game

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I played a game on easy mode once and the cartridge flew out of the system and hit me in the face, blinding me in one eye.

The game.......beat me

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wg64Z posted...

Right. Except not because one way you cheated. So the game beat you.

I'm guessing you also call the games daddy, huh?

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Oh man, I really should. The Dark Souls of Daddies.

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I shamelessly use rewind and save states on old games because they are poorly designed and dumb. If I'm playing Lost Levels and die because I hit my head on an invisible block on a jump I see no reason not to rewind. That's not difficulty it's just dumb

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Really at the end of the day just consider completion based on your own criteria. The poll was mostly curiosity of where the majority lies. If you think cheating in a game is totally fine and you consider it beaten proper, all the power to you. I personally like a challenge in my games, and wouldnt consider a game beaten if I cheated. But theres no gate keeping or refereeing going on.

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I used the rewind to 100% Yoshi's Island since I could never do it as a kid.
It was really easy but I had a lot of fun exploring without the pressure of trying not to get hit and redoing every level hundreds of times

Personally I don't consider a game beaten even if you use the game's own save function. Do it all in one go or not at all.

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I used rewind a lot in Life is Strange to beat it

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wg64Z posted...

Really at the end of the day just consider completion based on your own criteria. The poll was mostly curiosity of where the majority lies. If you think cheating in a game is totally fine and you consider it beaten proper, all the power to you. I personally like a challenge in my games, and wouldnt consider a game beaten if I cheated. But theres no gate keeping or refereeing going on.

I mean you're literally calling it cheating and making it a big deal that the person "cheated" by using rewind/whatever, when it's an option that was included with the game itself and not the player actually using some kind of cheat device, so you very clearly are trying to gatekeep and "referee" because you're constantly belittling everyone else.

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Yes, based on my own personal criteria. If you have a differing one that's totally fine. I'm not belittling you whatsoever.

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wg64Z posted...

Right. Except not because one way you cheated. So the game beat you.

This is 100% belittling, though, so, uh...

You're acting like an elitist asshole, dude.

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on the other hand I say you haven't beaten goldeneye if you didn't play DK Mode

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StealThisSheen posted...

This is 100% belittling, though, so, uh...

You're acting like an elitist asshole, dude.

Yeah I'll take that one, that was a bit much. But again it was viewing it from my own criteria. If yours is different, own it. I can't feel proud or say I beat a game if I abused state save or rewind. If you can, that's great. Do it! I apologize if I came off abrasive.

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As usual, Jim Sterling is right.

Gatekeeping others' experiences (in general, pretty much) is gross, and I feel bad that I even made such a topic once.

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I wish Dark Souls had save states so I could save scum through Bed of Chaos what a shit boss

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once again, literally nobody is brimming with pride from beating a game with save states

a challenging run is unrelated to "beating" a game, the vast majority of which aren't in any way impressive to beat even without state saves

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I would say no, but as long as people are having fun they can do whatever the hell they want, lol. Like, I personally get a huge rush out of being a game as fairly as possible when it's throwing everything it can at me. But if someone else just wants to blast through and make things easy for themselves and they're having fun with that, I'm not going to say that's "wrong" like some weird internet judge of fun.

That's all assuming this is just for fun though. Like if someone was saying they were super great at games because they save crawled through Ninja Gaiden, I'm going to call BS on that, lol.

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wg64Z posted...

Yeah I'll take that one, that was a bit much. But again it was viewing it from my own criteria. If yours is different, own it. I can't feel proud or say I beat a game if I abused state save or rewind. If you can, that's great. Do it! I apologize if I came off abrasive.

What about the point of view that you're not beating a game unless you 100% it? People who say you have to get the platinum in a game to actually beat it?
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Beat? No. Complete? Yes.

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Haven't read the topic at all but I'll just say that I'd...

Lean no, based on my own experiences. I can say, yeah, I've "finished" Suguri for instance, but without use of an invincibility cheat I've never beaten stage 3. That's how i feel. savestates are a valid tool for some things, like if you use them as an actual save tool, but if it's a game designed around the idea of, you know, actually overcoming the challenges it presents the way it intends you to, and savestates and rewinds aren't explicitly on the agenda there for standard completion (romhacks actually could be an exception)... Then yeah, no way would I would say it counts

Mind you, i come into this from the viewpoint that nobody talks to me about videogames anyway so i don't really know how I'd actually view others claiming such a thing

https://twitter.com/stevenspohn/status/1211073652030132224?s=21
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It's kinda wild to me that there is apparently a fairly common fear that there is this large contingent of people out there who beat games with save states, go "Yeah, I beat it, better than anybody else who has ever beaten it," and then the internet police is going to come knock on your door and go "Sorry, sir, but your previous claim of beating Mario 1 is now invalid because somebody beat it with save states."

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I think their fear is that the common understanding of beat will include save states and stuff, and then they have to be the ones to start specifying

Which is pretty whatever to me I don't care how everyone else plays stuff

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I mean if they're worried about being the "best" then that is already long gone because speedrunners abuse savestates to practice challenging sections instead of restarting the level/game/whatever when they die, but that has nothing to do with just beating the game normally.

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...I meant beat

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The term beat is just too vague these days.

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If you use a sex toy does it still count as beating your meat?
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Yes and no.
Newer games, this is basically how you play the games. Often times the game itself does this fofor yiu automatically.

But older games? It's kind of cheating.
I beat Zelda 1 and SMB2 last week using it. I felt dirty lol.

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This is off-topic, but since we're talking about beating games @wg64Z you had a good year with Tarvould's Quest:

*Catherine: Full Body has me marking out as somebody who only played the original.
*Stanley Parable's brilliant, glad you gave it a shot.
*The Mario All-Stars relay ran long but had a lot of fun anyway.
*The whole Extra Life marathon was nice to catch up on -- especially liked WWF No Mercy, Jackbox, and Untitled Goose Game.
*Master Quest was nice to revisit.
*Phoenix Wright, aw yeah of course that was good.
*Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes was hilarious.
*Eternal Darkness coming almost all in one swoop was a sweet surprise.

And I don't usually make time to watch games I haven't played before, but REmake 2, River City Girls, and even Mixed-Up Mother Goose had me tuning in. I watched ya'll a lot this year and I look forward to more soon.

(just a suggestion: Night in the Woods is both a good game and would probably be a good fit for ya'll if you like reading for characters like you did for Phoenix Wright)

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